{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/3f4kk94v3b/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Brubeck, Dave and Iola"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Preferred Citation"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eBrubeck, Dave and Iola. 2003. Interview by Eugenia Zukerman. Milken Archive Oral History Project. 23 September.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Milken Family Foundation"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e© Milken Family Foundation. Unauthorized use is prohibited. For inquiries, please contact info@milkenarchive.org.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Brubeck, Dave (Composer)","Brubeck, Iola (Lyricist)","Zukerman, Eugenia (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2003-09-23"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Wilton, CT (Place of Recording)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (Primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eOral history interview with Dave and Iola Brubeck focused on The Gates of Justice, an oratorio they composed in 1968-9 on commission from the United American Hebrew Congregations in response to increased tensions between the Jewish and African American communities in the U.S. Also encompasses other key periods of Brubeck’s life, including growing up on a ranch in rural California, his studies and lifelong relationship with Darius Milhaud, world travels as a \"jazz ambassador,\" and experiences confronting racial segregation in the American South.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.milkenarchive.org/artists/view/dave-brubeck\"\u003eView Artist Page from the Milken Archive\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["Beta SP"]}},{"label":{"en":["Relation"]},"value":{"en":["See: Brubeck, Dave. 2005. Interview by Russell Gloyd. Milken Archive Oral History Project. 7 May. (Associated Material)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Jews -- Music (Topical Term)","Jazz (Topical Term)","Union of American Hebrew Congregations (Person or Corporate Body)","Civil Rights (Topical Term)","Segregation -- Southern States (Topical Term)","Oral Histories (genre/form)","Ranch Life -- California (Topical Term)","Milhaud, Darius, 1892-1974 (Person or Corporate Body)","African Americans -- Relations with Jews (Topical Term)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Keyword"]},"value":{"en":["Alan Dawson, Battle of the Bulge, blues, bones and jazz, cantor, Catholicism, College of the Pacific, Darius Milhaud, Duke Ellington, ecumenicism, fugue, George Gershwin, George Wien, Gerry Mulligan, improvisation, Iraq War, Iron Curtain, Islam, Jack Six, Johann Sebastian Bach, Judaism, Kevin Deas, Martin Luther King, modal jazz, musical quotation, Poland, polyrhythm, polytonality, President Eisenhower, Rabbi Charles Mintz, religion, Russia, shofar, spirituals, The Commandments, The Gates of Justice, twelve-tone, United American Hebrew Congregations, World War II"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eOral history interview with Dave and Iola Brubeck focused on The Gates of Justice, an oratorio they composed in 1968-9 on commission from the United American Hebrew Congregations in response to increased tensions between the Jewish and African American communities in the U.S. Also encompasses other key periods of Brubeck\u0026rsquo;s life, including growing up on a ranch in rural California, his studies and lifelong relationship with Darius Milhaud, world travels as a \"jazz ambassador,\" and experiences confronting racial segregation in the American South.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.milkenarchive.org/artists/view/dave-brubeck\"\u003eView Artist Page from the Milken Archive\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u0026copy; Milken Family Foundation. Unauthorized use is prohibited. For inquiries, please contact info@milkenarchive.org.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/116/788/small/Dave-Brubeck-75.jpg?1622907977","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - L3336-37_Brubeck_Dave_Combined.mp4"]},"duration":6865.344,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/116/788/small/Dave-Brubeck-75.jpg?1622907977","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-milken.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/116/788/original/L3336-37_Brubeck_Dave_Combined.mp4?1622907784","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":6865.344,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Interview with Dave and Iola Brubeck [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e We’re going to talk mostly about “The Gates of Justice.” In thinking of a way to begin I thought it would be interesting to go back over your experience of injustice, throughout your life, which may have been part of the inspiration for Gates of Justice. So, I wonder if you could begin by talking about experiences you might have had as a boy on the ranch, becoming aware of certain injustices.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=21.0,53.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e You know, that's true, uh, but it, it was a wonderful mixed environment with, uh, many of the vaqueros (sp?) were Indian or Mexican, and, uh, my father was just accepting of everyone. So, racial injustice wasn't too bad, uh, and my dad was a rodeo roper, and, uh, had a few friends that were Black, and in your family, also were rodeo ropers.  And, uh, people don't think of, of Blacks as, uh, participating in roping and rodeos.  So, uh, we both grew up in, in families that accepted all people just because they were good.  Sometimes they were aware, the ones that were bad, but it, it was a fairly good environment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=53.0,136.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e I remember reading a story that you told about your father taking you to meet one of the Black hands at the ranch and asking him to open his shirt. Would you tell me that story?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=136.0,150.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, because I had no idea why my dad was taking me down to the Sacramento River.  And, we went into this small kind of fishing village, and, uh, he took me through the small town and found his friend, and said to his friend, I want you to open your shirt and show Dave your chest.  I had no idea what was going on and there was a brand on his chest.  Which really shocked me, because coming from the environment where we branded thousands of cattle every year, and I knew what that's like.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=150.0,207.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK (CONTINUED): I, I remember the, the smell of the, of the branding, which I remember all my life.  Uh, on cattle and horses.  And, uh, I wasn't really (stammers), it wasn't something that, that I liked at all.  And, then to see a man with a brand on his chest, and knowing the pain, and, uh, shock and suffering.  When you brand a, a small animal like a calf or a horse, they stagger when they get up.  They can hardly walk.  And, it, uh, there's become less painful ways to do this.  But to think of generations of people actually having to go through that with a hot iron, and this was common.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=207.0,275.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: So, it must have been a profound shock for you?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: It was, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: You had other shocks, uh, in World War II, I'm thinking, particularly, of your experience with the Wolf Pack.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Oh, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=275.0,289.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: If you wouldn't mind going back a little bit and telling me about working with that group.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Yes, uh, to tell you what it was like it, most of the men in, in the Wolf Pack band were guys that had been shot or injured, and sent back from the front.  Uh, to recuperate, and the band was created by guys that would say, well, I was a musician in civilian life.  And, they'd say, well, uh, would you like to be in the band?  And, almost always the answer would be yes.  (laugh) And, not go back to the front line.  And, there, again, maybe because of my family upbringing, there was, uh, an African‑American that came to talk to me.  And, I, uh, understood that he was a trombonist from Boston.  And, I asked him if he'd like to be in the band, and he said he really would like that.  But he wasn't sure he could be transferred to the band.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=289.0,385.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK (CONTINUED): And, our colonel, who became a general, absolutely approved of that.  And, said oh, he, he can be in the band.  I didn't realize that I was integrating World War II, as far as our soldiers were concerned.  I, I've never seen another situation where Black and White were billeted (stammers) together and lived together.  And, uh, this gave us some experiences with some of the soldiers that didn't like it, and many of them that it didn't bother at all, and we just all had a good time together.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=385.0,439.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK (CONTINUED): Now, our general was to be called away from our outfit because he was an old man.  And, he had been in World War I, and had spoken perfect German.  Because he stayed on to feed the German people and help them get back together.  And, they knew that as we went into Germany further and further, that there would be a situation where we needed General Brown to, from his experience, he could go in and set up ways people could eat and get clothing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=439.0,495.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK (CONTINUED): There was no firewood left.  There was, Germany was just bombed to the ground in many of the cities we were in.  So, I had a, an experience when he left to take his new job, he came up, we were asked to play at a party, saying farewell to him.  And, he came up on the stage, and shook hands with all of us, and then threw his arms around the Black soldier.  In other words, “You officers that are here, leave him alone.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=495.0,538.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e After the war also had some difficulties when you came back to the United States when segregation was at its height and there was the shock of finding out that you couldn't perform with an integrated band wherever you wanted to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=538.0,554.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: Well, that was in civilian life.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Yes, that's what I mean.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Yeah.  And, uh, again, we had an integrated group, but when we went, uh, on certain tours, uh, we'd be hired by the universities or colleges, by the students, the students wanted us, and they knew we were an integrated group.  And, there were 25 concerts in the South, and then I got a, a letter or a telegram saying, uh, you can't bring your bass player, and that was Eugene Wright, who was African‑American.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=554.0,611.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK (CONTINUED): You'll have to bring your old bass player, uh, or we will not have you.  So, we canceled 23 out of 25 concerts.  And, that was a blow (laugh) because I needed that work at that time.  And, it was bad for all of us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=611.0,632.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: But you stood up for what you believed.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: And, that's more important in the end.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Sure, and then I, I found out that the teachers at the universities wanted us, the presidents of the universities wanted us.  But what they were afraid of was losing their support from the government, that, the governor.  One of our last concerts, the president of the school, the students were stamping on the floor.  It was a big gymnasium, and we were in the locker room underneath.  And, it was such a roar of feet, because we were an hour late.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=632.0,683.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK (CONTINUED): And, they could see we were set up on the stage, but we weren't there.  Well, finally, the president was talking to the governor and he came back and said to me, we don't want another Little Rock, you go on, but keep your bass player in the back.  So, the second tune I told Eugene, your microphone is broken.  You'll have to move out in front of the band and use my speaking mike, and I'd like you to, to do a solo.  (laugh)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=683.0,731.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK (CONTINUED): He didn't know anything about what was going on.  So, he came out and played, and boy that, that auditorium went crazy.  It was integrated with such joy, and you see, the point I'm trying to make is almost everybody was through with that kind of thing.  If you would, like I'd get through a concert, and if it was segregated, I wouldn't play.  Louis Armstrong wouldn't play.  And, uh, the jazz musicians, I think, helped get the schools and the auditoriums back on track.  And, then later on, it would be the athletic, uh, people that would come in and get integration going.  And, so, it ended up quite well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=731.0,791.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eIOLA BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, well, we were just looking for work.  And, um, Dave had done a few concerts at schools where he was known, Mills College in Oakland, California.  And, University of the Pacific at Stockton, California.  And, it had gone over so well with the students that it occurred to me that here, really, was the audience for this, at this time, new kind of sound in jazz.  That they were ready for it.  But students usually don't have very much money.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=791.0,843.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK (CONTINUED): Often transportation is a problem.  Sometimes they're under aged to go into a nightclub (stammers) to order drinks and that sort of thing.  That it made sense to bring the musical group to the campus.  And, so, um, I wrote letters to schools up and down the coast of California, into Oregon and into Utah, and where it was driveable distance.  Those were the first contacts that were made.  And, this was really the beginning then of a concert circuit for jazz, in, in particular.  Because until that time, there were bands that would come to play, um, a dance or some big prom or something like that.  But as, uh, a concert group, not used to that before then.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=843.0,903.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e Going on to the “Gates Of Justice”, which was written in the late '60s. That was a terribly turbulent time in our history, with Vietnam and racial strife, and Martin Luther King had been assassinated. How much did that mix into your ideas for “Gates”?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=903.0,925.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, the, the whole idea of “Gates” came to us through, um, Rabbi Charles Mintz of Rockdale, Temple in Cincinnati.  Came here to the house with three rabbis.  And, wanted to discuss, uh, a new, um, oratorio, because at this point in our history, there was kind of a crisis in cities, larger cities, like New York and I think Cleveland, where temples were being set on fire.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=925.0,979.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK (CONTINUED): And, uh, a lot of, uh, friction be, in the communities.  And, they said we think you can write a piece that will be bring the Black and the Jewish culture back together, because we've gone through the same thing.  We've both been enslaved, we've both been, uh, sent all over the world.  Uh, we've had the same problems.  And, I discovered that even some of the music was quite similar.  And, so, they wanted to bring the communities back together.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=979.0,1038.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eIOLA BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e At that time, too, there were more radical elements of the Black Movement that were, um, sort of anti‑Jewish, and, fomenting, a feeling of hostility where once they had worked together for civil rights and felt that, uh, they had a, a common understanding, a common cause, and that was being fragmented at that time.  So, I think that that was the impetus behind their wanting this kind of piece.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1038.0,1076.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK (CONTINUED): The, uh, Rabbi Mintz had been on the ecumenical council in Cincinnati.  And, uh, Dave had written “The Light and the Wilderness” for the ecumenical council, and it was shortly after that, he said, “I think that you're the person who can bring these two elements together.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1076.0,1095.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e Dave, you’ve said that you had three Jewish teachers. One was a rabbi, one was Darius Milhaud, and one was Jesus. I’d like to talk about the one in the middle, Darius Milhaud, whom I knew. And I knew Madeleine Milhaud.  Darius Milhaud was so important in your life.  You decided to go and have a classical training in musical composition. And you went to Mills College to study with the famous Darius Milhaud, who was at that time just discovering polytonality, etc. And you were known as a jazz player. And yet he took you on. You were very close were you not?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1095.0,1143.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: Yes, we were.  And, we still are with Madeleine (Mme. Milhaud) she's 101.  Living in Paris.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: I heard, that's astonishing.  (laugh)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1143.0,1158.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, full of life.  But he was so great to me because I had just come back from the war, that was, I'd been gone from 1942 through '46.  And, um, you come back and you have nothing.  Uh, and you've had so little money for, I think I made 21 dollars a month for four years.  (laugh)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1158.0,1189.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Oh, my gosh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: And, you don't have much money.  And, uh, the GI Bill was so wonderful, that's how I could go to college and go to Mills College and study with Darius Milhaud.  And, uh, so, I got some of my friends, also GIs, to come and study with Milhaud.  But that, just before I went in the Army, I had a lesson and an interview with him, and he said he would take me as a student, uh, when I came back from the war.  And, uh, I was hoping I would come back.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1189.0,1239.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK (CONTINUED): And, uh, it, it, it worked out quite well for me.  And, he was wonderful to me because I wanted to give up jazz and, um, become a composer.  And, he said, don't give up jazz.  What you could do, he'd say, I wish I could do what you can do.  I'd say, no, don't say that.  What you can do, uh, I, I can't believe you'd say that.  And, he'd say, make some boogie woogie.  (laugh) So, to keep on his good side, I started playing some boogie woogie, and he'd say, that's what I like.  I wish I could do that.  And, that, every lesson would start with, make some boogie woogie.  (laugh)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1239.0,1294.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Well, he did a little bit in Creation du Monde \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Yeah.  His first ballet used jazz.  And, he instilled in me the importance of jazz.  He said, the two greatest American composers are Duke Ellington and George Gershwin.  I couldn't believe it that this top European composer was so aware and leave so much, and he said, you know, jazz is absolutely so important to express this culture.  If you're going to express America, be sure to use the jazz idiom which you already know.  Never give it up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1294.0,1351.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e You, of course, were aware that Milhaud was a Jew and that his family had suffered terribly.  Twenty cousins killed by the Nazis. And he himself had fled. Did he talk to you about being a Jew in exile and what that meant to him?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1351.0,1368.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.  He did.  And, his parents pretended to be the gardeners on their farm in Provence.  And, they were protected by the people that worked for them.  Never turned them in.  A lot of Jewish people were turned in and went to concentration camps, and were never heard of again.  And, Milhaud’s apartment in Paris was completely destroyed by the Nazis.  And, he, he and Madeleine just barely got out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1368.0,1414.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK (CONTINUED): And, they went to Portugal and from Portugal to Mexico.  And, then Pierre Monteux arranged for them to have a job at Mills.  You know, so many of these great brains were coming to the United States to escape from being murdered.  And, so, so many of them were saved by coming here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1414.0,1450.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK: Certainly enriched our culture.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: It did.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: To have them here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Milhaud also wrote his Service Sacre, his sacred service. And you were around during some of the rehearsals for it. So you were very aware of what he was doing. Did all of this—your awareness of Milhaud’s Jewishness and the way he had suffered, and his sacred service—play into your inspiration for “Gates of Justice”?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1450.0,1484.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e It surely would, yep.  And, uh, I was exposed to so many different forms of music through Milhaud.  But this was very important to hear this at the first rehearsal and the first performance.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1484.0,1506.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e When you started writing The Gates of Justice. You were commissioned to do it, but you had a lot of input didn't you.  You talked about the rabbis that came to speak to you. Was there anything that was said to you that became crucial to the piece?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1506.0,1523.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I, I think almost everything.  And, you see, the first performance was in Cincinnati, but then all the students that were musicians and the singers, were flown down to Miami for the UAHC, uh, Union American Hebrew Congress meeting.  And, Jewish leaders from all over the world.  Now, there were meetings going on constantly.  And, outside of every meeting, so far, there were picketing, uh, whether it was too liberal or too orthodox, or too this or too that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1523.0,1577.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK (CONTINUED): And, there was a lot of tension.  And, at our concert, was the only time there was no trouble.  It, it seemed to draw everybody that, the rabbis and Iola had just picked the right direction for a concert, and it was one of my favorite concerts because it had a program with the text.  A piece would start, people would look down, then they would look right at the, the, the musicians and the singers, because they knew every word of this piece by heart.  And they just absorbed it.  And, the president of this whole meeting, his address was almost exactly the text of the “Gates Of Justice”, which are all, started drawing every, everybody together.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1577.0,1640.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e Let’s talk about that text. Iola, you were crucial in putting it together. And it’s partially texts from the Old Testament and Hebrew prayers. But it’s also texts from Martin Luther King and some of your own writing. What was your criteria for deciding what would go into it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1640.0,1661.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eIOLA BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, the basic message we knew we wanted to be basically the brotherhood of man, and I think that when we were searching for text, we were looking for different ways to come at that, either with, um, we're all part of God's creation, um, or, um, just different perspectives on the same message, and how it was put in different ways.  And, the, the major, um, choral settings are from the, um, the prayer brook, the Hebrew prayer book.  And, it was with the rabbi, who sort of underlined the major text that they wanted to see come out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1661.0,1716.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK (CONTINUED): And, then, um, we were, both of us were searching for contemporary statements.  And, we ran across these speeches of Martin Luther King, and one of them that was so powerful, called “Knives.”  “There are knives and there are other arms, and you have called upon all of us to put them away.  And bear, instead, the breastplate of righteousness,” right?  And, uh, we felt well this says it so strongly, and in a language that is compatible with the Old Testament, really.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1716.0,1759.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK (CONTINUED): So, it was, um, a very prophetic statement.  And, also, part of it was this vision of how wonderful it would be if people could live in harmony.  We wanted to be able to state that.  And, my own contribution was for the Black baritone to sing something that was contemporary and very personal.  And, uh, that was the only part of the text that, that I wrote, the rest of it are all taken from either the, the bible or, um, Martin Luther King or just statements that all are buttresses to the main theme.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1759.0,1809.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e Dave, you’ve talked about that part of “The Gates,” using the text of Martin Luther King about knives. And you’ve said that seemed to be the one place you could really feel the audience attention, is that true?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1809.0,1828.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, one, one concert was in a city where we, we brought this to the community, and hardly anyone showed up.  Because the invitations had been put in a drawer, and never taken out.  Just for some reason, somebody didn’t want that concert to go on.  And, but there was one, I think she was a nun that brought her students, who were mostly Black.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1828.0,1868.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK (CONTINUED): And, uh, they had never heard anybody sing with full voice.  And, McHenry Boatwright, this huge Black athletic man, they were staring in wonder, you know, when he could really sing, he, he was a friend of Martin Luther King and Coretta.  And, they all went to school together in Boston.  But this section is called, there were, there are not knives, there are knives and there are other arms.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1868.0,1917.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e In the palm of your hands so to speak.  (laugh)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1917.0,1956.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK: Also kind of wondering what's going to happen next?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: You've had interesting audiences. I read, and it blew my mind, that Louis Farrakhan came to a concert. To me, this man is such an anomaly. He can play Mendelssohn’s violin concerto, and yet he spews hatred.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1956.0,1979.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e But, you know, he didn't that day.  But he didn't come after the concert or, or at intermission and talk to us, but a whole entourage of his came back stage, and they said that he agreed with this concert.  I thought he would be so much against it, but they did say that everything we were doing was right.  And, this is the way things should be.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=1979.0,2012.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e So, the central tenet of “Gates of Justice” is that we all must be brothers.  Other messages also in the text. To you, what else is there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2012.0,2030.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, it's, it's so basic for the survival of the world, you know, where, where we're at a time when, uh, this world could disappear on us unless we really get (stammers) down to believing in the original, uh, meaning of all the great religions.  And, the brotherhood of man, uh, and realizing that man is good.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2030.0,2069.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK: And man is the instrument to bring about good.  It is possible.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Do you still grapple with some of those statements, like what is man?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2069.0,2083.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: That thou art mindful of him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: Sometimes you question how mindful (laugh), right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2083.0,2097.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: So, what you're saying really is that the “Gates Of Justice” is truly relevant for our time right now?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Yeah, even the old “beat your swords into ploughshares and your spears into pruning hooks,” today, it's, it's as relevant as it was when it was first spoken.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2097.0,2116.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e You have also said that you had felt there is an essential paradox in one of the sayings in “The Gates of Justice,” and that is that God has the power to change society, but it is really the divine in man that has to act to make social justice.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2116.0,2143.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: And, that's something that you believe in.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: And, then, uh, there's so many lines that you wish that the religions of the world would pay attention to.  Uh, and things like, “and ye were strangers in the land of Egypt”.  Uh, in other words, you know, strangers in the land.  And, the feeling that opened the gates, opened the gates of, of justice.  When I think of the, the fence being built between Palestine and Jerusalem, and the wall between East and West Germany.  Open the gates. “If a stranger dwell in thy land, you should not do him harm.”  Well, why is this ignored?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2143.0,2221.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eIOLA BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e (stammers) It's even, it's, what is even on, uh, the, the ballot in California, isn't it, about dealing with, um, minorities who are illegal (stammers) aliens who are in California, whether they should receive some of the social services and that sort of thing.  So, it's, it's applicable today.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2221.0,2241.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: And, cloth the hungry.  But, cloth, feed the hungry and cloth the, the naked, all those things are basic in the religions.  And, I don't see how we get ourselves in, into these messes that are getting, um, more destructive as far as the, the world is concerned.  When we have such great words to guide us, and we, and almost everybody else is ignoring their basic religion, and playing around with interpretations that give them an excuse to do harm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2241.0,2298.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e The cantata begins with King Solomon making a statement at his brand new temple. And to me that’s so ironic because of course that temple was ruined. Did you see that text—Iola, this probably a question for you—as having that ironic power to it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2298.0,2322.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eIOLA BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't think so.  Um, I, I think that when, um, I chose a text, I thought of it more as an offering and a prayer of the work that was to follow.  And, the fact that the first performance would be at the temple in Cincinnati.  So, I, I don't think that I was quite as smart as you were (laugh) being about it, the irony of that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2322.0,2359.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah well that’s a much more benign way of opening the cantata. The cantata has two singers in it. The bass baritone, and you wanted him to be Black, and the tenor who you really wanted to be a cantor, did you know before you did this that these two voices could meld as well as they did?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2359.0,2375.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e Hopefully, uh, and at our first, call it an audition, they worked perfectly together.  Cantor Hal Orbach and with McHenry Boatwright.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2375.0,2397.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Is it essential for you to have an African‑American and a cantor, what happens in a place where they don't have those singers of that quality?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: We, we had that happen.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Oh, did you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2397.0,2412.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: Where we couldn't get the voices, (stammers) the, uh, the Black man could be sung by a White man, and the reverse, and it worked perfectly.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Oh, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2412.0,2429.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK: The Black man sang the cantor's role and it was fine.  And, also had a female cantor who sang it.  And, it worked very well.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: And, did you feel it was as powerful?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: The words.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: I think the words are the power.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: So the construction of this piece is text driven?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2429.0,2447.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: And, was it through the text that you found the inspirations for the music?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Oh, yeah.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: And, um, I want to wait until we go to the piano and sit in there to talk about, you know, more musical aspects of the cantata itself, but I did want to ask you what are the similarities between, among, Hebrew chant and spirituals and blues?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2447.0,2478.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: I think that they, they are related, you know, Africa isn't that far from Jerusalem.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: That's true.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2478.0,2494.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e And, uh, the, there was I think many mixtures of those two cultures that we might not be so aware of.  Uh, Ethiopia, those people both migrating in, into Africa, into Jerusalem.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2494.0,2521.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: And, there are all those Ethiopian Jews.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: I didn't want to say that.  Because I wasn't so positive but I remember reading about there was a migration between Ethiopia, and tell me about that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2521.0,2540.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Well I am not a history maven, but I do know that there are hundreds of thousands of Jews who somehow received the Jewish learnings thousands of years ago, thousands of years not just hundreds of years, and truly believed themselves to be Jews in every sense of the word. After all, Haile Selassie considered himself, he called himself the lion of Judah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Yeah, that's true.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2540.0,2569.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: And there is this tremendous connection, and I think the tragedy is that many Ethiopian Jews who were flown to Israel during all of the famines have not faired as well as they might have Israel. But certainly there is this diaspora, the Jews. We know they went to Africa; they went to Greece. And Darius Milhaud’s kind of background is so fascinating because he was not a Sephardic Jew and not a Ashkenazic Jew, meaning he wasn’t from the Spanish part of the world or the Western European. They were actually called the Provencal Jews. They were known to have been in France since the fifth century.  The idea of where there are Jews, I think it's more telling to say where are there not Jews.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2569.0,2628.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK: That's right.  You think of Milhaud was born in Marseilles, well, it's not too far from Africa, just across the pond there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: That's right.  Your own religious background is so interesting, because your mother, Bessie, who was a classical pianist and a very refined person, had beliefs that came from a number of different religions.  What was that mix?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2628.0,2654.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e It was almost impossible to follow her thinking because, she, for 17 years, the church next door was the Presbyterian Church and she was the choir director.  And, so, I would go with her when I was a little boy, because she didn’t have a baby-sitter I’d be in the church while she rehearsed the choir.  Every Thursday night.  But she also was reading Christian Science and Eastern religion and philosophy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2654.0,2698.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK (CONTINUED): And, on, uh, many subjects that, uh, most of her friends wouldn't know what she was talking about.  (laugh) So, in, in a way, she was, alone a lot in her thinking.  And, my dad never had a religious thought.  He was just religious.  And, uh, would that everybody had his moral and wonderful ways, but he never, never (laugh) mentioned religion.  He, he would go along to church and, uh...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2698.0,2743.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: But his religion was just more personal?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Yeah, I, I remember thinking about my father's funeral at the church where my mother would often drag him.  And, the minister was trying to say some good things about my father.  And, he said, “you know, I saw Pete in, that's my dad, in town, and I said, ‘Pete, you haven't been to church lately’”.  “Well, damn it, preacher, if you'd do your job, I could come to church. The cattle don't have any water.  Why don't you pray for rain?”  (laugh)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2743.0,2795.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK (CONTINUED): So, he said, I saw my dad in town, and his pickup was covered with mud and, when he got out, boots were covered with mud.  When he got out of the car, he said, “damn it all preacher, you can stop now.” (laugh) That's, that was his religion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2795.0,2820.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e That’s great. Now in the construction of the cantata you used jazz. And you’ve said that jazz, to you, represents freedom to you. How do you mean that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2820.0,2834.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: Well, you see, there's so many ways I, I could talk about that.  But President Eisenhower sent us on a tour, person‑to‑person, and we went along the periphery of Russia, at a time when there was great conflict between the United States and Russia.  Our first 12 concerts were in Poland.  Then we went to Turkey, again on the border of Russia.  And, to Afghanistan, again on, on the border, and the presence of Russians in, uh, in Afghanistan.  Then through the Khyber Pass (sp?) to Iran, Iraq, India, then to Ceylon.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: Pakistan.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2834.0,2902.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, East and West Pakistan.  And, then ended up Iran and Iraq.  And, this was to help bring our cultures together.  And, I, I think this was such a wonderful move to make, to, to show similarities and, and to show the freedom of jazz.  Now, when we were in Afghanistan, the whole audience, the entire balcony was Russian.  And, they were there, uh, before they tried to invade.  And, those things were going on back and forth, and the idea of the great discipline of jazz, and the great freedom.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2902.0,2968.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eIOLA BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e Russia.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=2968.0,3012.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e (stammers) And Russia.  These sounded like Willis, their accent.  They listened every night, but if you got caught listening, terrible things happened to you.  Now, the KGB explained to me how they had so many of my records.  And, they would sneak them in, but the doctors had my records and the nurses, and they called, it was called Bones and what?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3012.0,3045.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK: Bones and Jazz.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Bones and Jazz.  And, they, they would take the recording off of, um, an x‑ray plate, they could make kind of an acetate recording, and they would sneak around and play it quietly to one another.  And, then there were these places that had jazz organization.  The last time we played in, in Poland, they invited us to a secret meeting of jazz people.  And, at the end of the meeting, a Polish man stood up and he said, I know you're going home.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3045.0,3097.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK (CONTINUED): And he raised his glass and he said, we'd like to drink a toast that you will remember that all of us Polish people love freedom as much as you.  And, we had those kind of things happen where we knew that the message of the freedom of jazz was reaching out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3097.0,3126.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e The way you use it in “Gates of Justice”, between more choral portions and more solo aria portions. Do you feel it's used as a bridge between them, and is the bridge a bridge that is it freer than the other? I mean what is the function of the jazz in this cantata?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3126.0,3152.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e I'll tell you, whenever I write, uh, a large religious work, there usually comes a time where you have a war scene.  And, I always call on my drummer.  (laugh)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3152.0,3169.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK: Duke Ellington did that, too.  (laugh)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: To express the, the rhythmic drive and the, and the noise of war, uh, and the movement in there, and the whole thing...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3169.0,3190.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eIOLA BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e I think it's the spontaneity of the, of the jazz performance that seems to connect so directly with the audience that, um, I think it does give a more of a, a sense of the freedom that you are, are talking about.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3190.0,3213.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e Your extraordinary use of jazz at the end of the cantata, during the knives, Martin Luther King, just before you’re talking about “Sing a New Song.” It’s so, powerful there with the use of the drums but also the trumpets and the brass.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3213.0,3235.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: I love the sound of the brass there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Yeah, well you begin with the brass.  You know, I couldn’t help thinking of the shofar being blown. Did you have those thoughts in your head about that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3235.0,3249.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e I've got three shofars [rams horns] in my basement down here.  And, I used to bring them always to the performance.  But they were very hard to control.  And, and not an easy instrument to play.  But it was safer to have a French horn do the call.  And, that's what I did many of the times.  But sometimes there'd be a great shofar player that you could trust.  Not too often.  (laugh)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3249.0,3291.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: It’s a tough instrument.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: It is tough.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: So many things are symbolic in the cantata. Even the choice of voice. And the choice, for example, of the Black, African American, bass baritone. What does he symbolize?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3291.0,3309.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, for one, Martin Luther King, second spirituals and blues, uh, especially that in “Lord, Lord, What Will Tomorrow Bring.”  And...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3309.0,3328.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK: And, I think a, a contemporary voice.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: In that section “What is man?” With the Black.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: And, yet you use operatic base style tones.  Highly trained classical voices.  These are not blues singers. Why did you want them to have that, the purity of operatic voices?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3328.0,3356.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e Good question.  Uh, I did hope that they'd had the operatic voice, but would have listen to the blues.  (laugh)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3356.0,3371.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: I think we hope that of opera singers always.  (laugh)\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: The cantor symbolizes what?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3371.0,3383.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e The, the cantor is tradition and, uh, and really they, the basic religion, philosophy and he sticks pretty, pretty close to that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3383.0,3405.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eIOLA BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e I know, I think that we talked about the cantor as a call for prayer, that the hope that an, an audiences' mind, the minds are being set as in a prayer like way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3405.0,3420.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: You’ve spoken about the idea of communion, which is not a Jewish thought. But you mean communion in terms of people communing together.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: That is part of your desire with this cantata, isn't it? That people who listen to it will feel a communion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3420.0,3438.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: Oh, right, that's it, it’s bringing together, um, not just these two cultures, but everybody.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: I think that's one of the functions, functions of the jazz in it also, because, as I spoke before about the spontaneity, also, I think of jazz and its directness has a way of drawing people together in a very, um, in, in a very short time, in a very direct way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3438.0,3475.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e You use a very bluesy kind of feeling toward the end of the cantata, again it’s in the knives section, the Martin Luther King section. What do you feel the use of blues is? Is it a more emotional feel to you than jazz that might have swing in it, or more rhythmic…?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3475.0,3500.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, to me, the spiritual and the blues and jazz are very related.  And, proving that to me, more than anything, was Mahalia Jackson at the Newport Jazz Festival.  She refused to sing jazz, absolutely.  She got that jazz festival swinging more than any of the jazz bands.  Because none of us got that place rocking and swinging.  And, if you go to a great African [American] church, the beat is so great and so wonderful, and so happy.  And, it, it is such a spiritual great music, to uplift the soul.  And, it's so related...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3500.0,3568.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK: And, it's so communal.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: In your choice of orchestration, you chose not to have an orchestra. No strings. Why?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3568.0,3581.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e I wanted the brass.  I wanted, wanted to get the sound of, of jazz.  And, uh, that's one thing that brass can do.  As soon as you, you mix in, uh, some of the other, uh, orchestra, you, you tend to lose the feeling of a great brass section in a jazz band.  And, I wanted that in the, in this piece.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3581.0,3616.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e It’s so interesting to me as a musician that it sounds so complete.  You never think, “Oh, I’m missing some warmth from the violins. Or some sort of woody sound from the woodwinds.” It has a very complete feel in itself. Do you have to play it?  Have other people done it? Have other people done this without you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3616.0,3641.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e They could do it easily without me.  They could also do it with no improvisation.  And, you see, improvisation is something that people forget that Bach put into his Sunday services, every Sunday he would improvise.  And, when people say to me, how come you're using jazz in the sacred service?  And, I'd say, well, it goes back to Bach.  (laugh) And, they'll say, well, he didn't do that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3641.0,3685.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK (CONTINUED): And, I said, “Oh, Sacred Head Now Wounded” is a German drinking song that everybody in the congregation, especially the men, would know the original, “I cry into my beer stein, my love has gone and left me”.  Yet it's become probably the most sacred melody in Western European religious music.  So, why shouldn't jazz, is less removed than Bach was from what he used.  And, any time Bach did anything, I'll go along with it.  (laugh)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3685.0,3735.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e He’s the granddaddy of us all, for sure. Your use of the drums, was that a drummer who decided on the part or was he improvising always?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3735.0,3749.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, it, he would be improvising after, uh, a quick theme, he would develop it.  And, uh, virtually have somebody feed a theme to the drummer, and then the drummer is completely free.  But he has to get back at the end of his solo, to the same rhythm of that theme that started it.  Or else it won't work.  It will all fall apart.  So, no matter how wild he gets, he's got to remember he's got to return to something that's going to bring the orchestra in the same beat that he left.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3749.0,3803.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK (CONTINUED): And, if he speeds up or slows down, the orchestration won't work.  Randy Jones, my drummer, always right on the button, every time.  And, the, all my drummers seem to have a tempo in their head that they can get back to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3803.0,3825.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e And speaking of themes, I’ve read that you used themes by Simon And Garfunkel, Beatles, Bach, why did you decide you wanted to quote others?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3825.0,3840.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e At that section is, um, all people, and I thought one way of expressing all people is to use all the different kind of music that people would recognize.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3840.0,3858.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK: The popular music and also, I think, was, uh, attention to the younger people, that, things that they would immediately recognize as it quickly went by.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: A Mexican theme.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: I hope you will play some of those for me when we go over to the piano. Is there anything essential about the cantata that we have not talked about? In terms of what your intention was. How about how was it received?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3858.0,3893.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: It was received wonderfully well.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Critically as well.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Critically, too, yeah.  Uh, I'm very grateful that it wasn't (laugh) banned.  Uh...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3893.0,3906.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Is there another cantata in you?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Well, there's 10 that have already been written.  And, uh, there's, there's, the one I'd love to do, if, if I had time on this earth, would, to bring the various religious basic tenets, where you would put them altogether in the same cantata.  And, I, I know that some other composers must have done this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3906.0,3949.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Well, you still have a lot of time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: I hope.  (laugh)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: Well, I just wanted to say one thing.  When you ask about, uh, how the “Gates” was received, in addition to what the audiences said, uh, and felt, it's always been well received by audiences.  But I think that something else to consider is how it's received by the people who are singing it and who are taking part in it.  And, um, I remember one time after a concert at the University of Michigan, that, a young man who was in the, uh, choir came to Dave and said that, uh, uh, I am Jewish and I have been raised in that religion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3949.0,3997.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e That's a great compliment, don't you think?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=3997.0,4022.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eIOLA BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, I think so.  And, um, at Princeton, the choral director of the cathedral, uh, not, the chapel choir, I should say, her name is Pina Rose, she has now done the “Gates Of Justice” three times, and has said that she wants to do it at least once every four years, so, that as new students come in, each will have had the opportunity to sing it and to be a part of it.  And, I think that is a great compliment, too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4022.0,4056.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e You have written so many things. Where does “Gates of Justice” stand for you among your favorites?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4056.0,4067.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, it, it's right up there.  (laugh) Uh, it, it is such a powerful piece.  And, I remember (stammers), Iola is my most severe critic, she said, “why do you make it so loud, so many sections of it?”  And, I said, “well, it's about war and about struggle, and, and the brass make it so wonderful, and percussion and, and that's why it's so loud.”  And, then I'd remind her, there are soft spots.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4067.0,4114.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK (CONTINUED): One of my favorite soft sections is when I visualize these young Jewish girls in a field, and, and it's almost like you can hear the, hear them working, sifting grain, and just waiting for peace to come.  And, it's, what is that section, do you know where I mean?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4114.0,4150.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK: Yes, it's about, um, let's see, I've forgotten the words now, but it's something about “how beautiful it is ...\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: For people to dwell together ...”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: Together.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: In unity.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4150.0,4163.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK: Yes.  And, that's a beautiful...\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: “Violence shall no more be heard in our land, desecration or destruction.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: One of my favorite spots are when the two soloists are singing, the two scenes that they, uh, the Prayer of Solomon.  And, the baritone is singing.  And, when, at the very end, when the cantor sings “And when thou hearest, forgive.” That always touches me very much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4163.0,4196.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e You’ve spoken about being very touched by what I always call the tenets, the main belief of Judaism, which in my temple was just written up above the temple, and that is to do good, have mercy, walk humbly with your God.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4196.0,4221.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK: Oh, yes, not so easy to do.  (applause)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: I always aid (stammers)...\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: Only.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Only.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Oh, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Those are three things that are very hard.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4221.0,4238.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e You have been, both of you, strong social activists. And in the sixties, one spoke about a social conscious. Do you have fears that the idea of social conscious doesn't exist anymore? Where is the activism today?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4238.0,4255.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: Wow, uh, when, I, I see so many positive things.  And, the, like we're just fighting for some direction in the Brubeck Institute.  Where they just don't learn music and learn jazz.  But they connect, what we connected from our education there.  This great teacher, Dr. Goldman, gave us so much, and my 100 books to read after I got in the Army, came from his class.  And, my feeling about religion was, came from a, a teacher that you had to take.  What is that compulsory isn't right?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: Required course.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4255.0,4325.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e Required course that I never would have taken, so, I've just spoken to the Brubeck fellows that they must, if they can get involved in philosophy and religion, and other things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4325.0,4347.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eIOLA BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e I think there's, I think that there is a, a, a growing sense among the younger people now to become more active again.  I do think we went through a period where everyone was bent on making that money fast and getting their MBAs and, out there in the world without too much social thought.  But, um, you know, the pendulum swings.  And, I think that there is again beginning, a feeling of gee, we better be a little more alert.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4347.0,4381.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e And, I watch our, our children, and, uh, for instance, my son has just finished playing with the Dixie Chicks.  And, has finished his tour, and now he's registered at York University in Toronto and, so, that he can learn more about composition.  I just talked on the phone before I came up here to Darius, named after Milhaud, who's on his way to Africa.  And, he's devoted 20 years to bringing, uh, jazz and what does he call his program?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4381.0,4433.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eIOLA BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e It's, uh, the Center for Jazz and Popular Music at the University of Natal in Durban [now KwaZulu-Natal], and most of those students are from the townships, and, uh, given their first opportunity for, um, university courses and musical training, and that sort of thing.  We spent the past 20 years doing that, starting it from nothing, so, now, it's, uh, working very well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4433.0,4465.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you find that your sons had a reaction to the “Gates Of Justice” the first time each of them heard it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4465.0,4476.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I would say that they would have liked that.  The next piece after that is a combination, it’s called Truth Is Fallen in the street, but equity did not enter.  There was no justice, there was no man.  None speaketh for truth.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4476.0,4500.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK: Now, we should bring that one back.  (laugh)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: And, this involved my son's rock group, the symphony orchestra, myself as a jazz person, chorus, and there was a lot of involvement, and within the family, within the rock group.  And, uh, that was a wonderful piece.  We dedicated it to the students at Kent University in Jackson, Mississippi.  Uh, and it is a powerful mixture of rock and jazz, and classical music.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4500.0,4550.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK: Beautiful classical soprano arias in it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Oh, she's a, with an expert in Bach, and I wrote arias with her in mind.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: And, so, really, it's very heartening to hear you say there's many things you're optimistic about.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4550.0,4569.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, yeah.  And, the, the young people that, that I meet, uh, really so fantastic.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e[end of tape 1]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4569.0,4584.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e Dave, let me ask you about “Gates of Justice,” the architecture of it. Did you have a plan already made when you started, or did you come up with a theme first? What was your process?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4584.0,4599.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: I think, um, there's three themes, um, that are related.  The, the first thing that the chorus sings: “Oh Come Let Us Sing a New Song unto the Lord.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4599.0,4620.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Mm hm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: And then, uh, it's in the middle someplace and then it ends with that and, um, the, the, the, each one gets progressively harder.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4620.0,4634.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Mm hm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: So that the, the last one is difficult and most choruses want to shoot me when they get to the last one.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: You said that there were some polytonal and maybe atonal choruses that a lot of choruses don't want to sing.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: So, do you cut them for them?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4634.0,4656.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Mm hm, the last moment, right?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: (overlapping) Yeah, the last movement, uh, uh, we, we make big cuts. But if there's a lot of rehearsal time we try to do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4656.0,4670.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e And the opening that you wrote, with the sixteenth notes in the French horn to sound like a ram's horn, how did that come to you and when did it come to you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4670.0,4684.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: As I wrote that I, I was trying to get the sound of the shofar.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Mm hm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: And, uh, the, those notes that are repeated are to imitate the, the call to worship and you [Iola] said it was both a call to worship and a call to, like, an army prayer, a call to arms, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: (overlapping) Yes, a call to prayer and, and a call to arms, and...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4684.0,4715.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: It certainly makes you sit up and listen, a good thing too.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Yeah, yeah.  (laugh) (technical)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Lets go back to those three themes. Can you play one of those themes?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4715.0,4728.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: I don't know.  (laugh) (technical)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK (CONTINUED): (music) (singing) “Oh come let us sing unto the Lord.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Mm hm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4728.0,4745.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: Then that same thing becomes a 12‑tone row at the end when I know it, it's a new song (music).  So now it's getting difficult...\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4745.0,4773.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK...  but it's a new song unto the Lord, (sounds like) so...\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: And it relates to the one in the beginning?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Yeah, but it, now it's a (stammers), almost like it but it's, uh, uh, in a 12‑tone row.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4773.0,4789.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e Since you wanted this accessible by many kinds of people, did you worry about putting a 12‑tone row, atonality, into the piece at all?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4789.0,4805.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: One of the first rehearsals of this, uh, was in a school in the south that had a wonderful chorus and at the rehearsal one of the students, when we were rehearsing that last section with the 12‑tone row...\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: (overlapping) Mm hm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4805.0,4824.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: He lift, raised his hand and he said, after you've written all this beautiful music why did you have to ruin it in the last piece?  (laugh) That's all, (laugh) that, oftentimes people almost rebel at having to, to sing that last piece.  So we cut it down (stammers) unless, uh, sometimes you have a, a group of singers that can sight read it 'cause they have perfect pitch and, uh, when I have the cream of the crop of New York or maybe of London and you just put it in front of them and, uh, and it's done.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Mm hm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4824.0,4865.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: But (stammers) with people that are not trained this is a train wreck and they don't want to do it.  (technical)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: So we’re talking about the thematic material throughout. Besides the new songs is there another one that's also heard throughout?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4865.0,4890.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: Well, the, the shofar comes in and out once in awhile and, um, this open the gate theme...\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Mm hm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Um, I talked earlier about how the drum does an improvisation in this and the people are singing “open the gate, open the gate, open the gate” and then I, I set it up (music), “out of the way of the people.”  Then the drum comes in...\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Mm hm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4890.0,4930.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: And he's free and he gets me back to that and I cue the orchestra (music) on that same, same theme and that's used a couple of times.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Mm hm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4930.0,4946.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK: And open the gates, the first time you hear it, is a chorale.  (music)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Like that, yeah, as a chorale.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4946.0,4958.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: (overlapping) A little jazz chord instead of a normal chord.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: (laugh) I cheated on that, yes, because, uh, it doesn't go where it was (music), with (music), but I went (music), I don't know for sure which is right.  (laugh)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4958.0,4978.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e (overlapping) Well I like them both. They're great.  Would you say the improv is used as bridging the larger works?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4978.0,4988.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, it, it does and, um, in the section coming up, which is the usage of a spiritual and the blues. We had a friend from New Orleans that, when things got tough she'd say “Lord, Lord, what will tomorrow bring?” And so I set that (music) and I (stammers), Iola added, “today I felt a narrow stinging in a womb so deep my eyes refused to weep.”  And that (music), “what will tomorrow bring, (music).”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=4988.0,5164.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Beautiful. Beautiful. Is that one of your favorite passages?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: I like, I like that, and I play behind the baritone.  He's singing that melody.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Mm hm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5164.0,5176.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: But the orchestra is cut out at that point and the chorus in the, uh, it's just the baritone, the Black baritone soloist and I.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Mm hm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5176.0,5189.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: And it feels like we're in a Black church or a Black nightclub or, uh, and, uh, Kevin Deas does it now so beautifully.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Mm hm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5189.0,5205.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: And it, and it's like I'm playing behind some of my great Black friends that sing the blues, that's the feeling that we often get.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: (overlapping) Mm hm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5205.0,5221.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK: And from the text's point of view it ends with a question, and it's up to you, what will tomorrow bring, and the answer, that's up to you what happens tomorrow.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: That’s terrific.  The modal qualities that you have in some of the vocal writing. Why did you include that? Why is it important?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5221.0,5244.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: Well, um, the cantors, uh, Cantor Mintz, when, when he heard this piece he said, you, you're obviously very familiar with Jewish modes, I think he used Jewish modes and I said no I'm not and he said well, it, it sounds like you are.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Mm hm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5244.0,5280.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e And I just consider that really luck that, that, that it, it worked and that for some reason I fell into the right melodic kind of things, just by thinking about the text and the situation and the, often times, uh, uh, when I'm writing it's, it's, I can visualize a scene like I'm in Jerusalem or there's an army or something about the going to battle.  And, uh, sometimes I'm lucky and it comes out.  (EUGENIA ZUKERMAN laughs)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5280.0,5322.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e A lot of cantorial material comes from a Sephardic or more eastern background with the modality being more pentatonic and there's a lot of that in the cantorial writing, which is yours. And it sounds to me, as someone who’s been to a lot of Jewish services, absolutely as if it comes out of some Jewish traditional music.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5322.0,5354.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: (overlapping) Hm, you know, (laugh) it's funny, 'cause I knew nothing about the Catholic mass and the first part of the mass this wonderful nun that's a fantastic musician told me that's, (stammers) what you used is one of the ancient Gregorian chants.  I never heard it.  I, I had no idea that I'd used it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Mm hm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5354.0,5382.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: So I get lucky once in awhile.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: You probably have a very retentive mind, and you hear things...\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: (overlapping) And I don't know it.  (laugh)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5382.0,5395.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: You've talked about incorporating quotes from the masters, like Simon And Garfunkel and Bach, where did you put most of those quotes?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: (overlapping) Mm hm, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: It’s in “The Lord Is Good,” isn’t it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5395.0,5419.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: I can't remember exactly where it is but I used (music), I used that from Bach...\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Mm hm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5419.0,5438.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: ...  which I never played (laugh) but I'd heard my mother play it and the time came to use it, uh...\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Do you remember the Beatles song you put in?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Tell me what it was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5438.0,5454.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK: (overlapping) It's All The Lovely People, wasn't it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: (overlapping) Was it, oh, (music), that's the theme, yeah, and I used the Mexican (stammers) Hat Dance, wasn't it?  (laugh)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5454.0,5470.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\tDAVE BRUBECK: (music) Wrong, (music) (laugh) I don't ever use anything, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5470.0,5506.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Okay, Simon and Garfunkel it's in there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: What piece was it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: (overlapping) “Sound Of Silence.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5506.0,5514.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: I can't remember, (music) something like that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: You remember how it goes?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: I don't (laugh) but it's a tribute to the greats and also worked so well, right?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: You know, it, it really falls in altogether.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5514.0,5533.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: And it's a tradition because greats quoted themselves and others all the time, yes?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: (overlapping) Mm hm, in, in the beginning of classical music everybody thought it was completely okay to use somebody else's theme.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5533.0,5555.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Now you'd get sued.  (laugh)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: (overlapping) Yeah, (laugh) shouldn’t have said that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: Well, you're allowed so many bars, right?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: (overlapping) What else, uh...\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: (overlapping) (music) I think that's what I used, all...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5555.0,5579.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK: All The Lovely People.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN\u003cbr\u003e(overlapping) Mm hm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: Where Do They Come From?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: All The Lonely People, that's it, where do they come from, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: (overlapping) Where do they, where do all, all, uh, anyway, (laugh) it's there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5579.0,5593.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK: (overlapping) Too many years ago.  (laugh)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: (overlapping) We're all struggling to remember a Beatles song.  Also in terms of the structure of the piece, is there a place for you where it turned or does it remain one fluid feeling throughout? It certainly has a lot of nuance.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5593.0,5617.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: Yeah, uh, towards, towards the end, well, I don't know exactly where it is, but it, (music) and then it comes in like the shofar after that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Mm hm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5617.0,5668.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e And then, um, the Black baritone has some kind of nice… “There are knives and there are, or there are other arms” (music), and I, uh, just bass, I just had that going with the bass (music), and it, that makes a good jazzy thing to, to kind of improvise on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5668.0,5731.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Your facility with polyrhythms – many rhythms at once – was that something you always had?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Oh it started when I was a teenager, late teenager.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: Hm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5731.0,5749.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: (overlapping) Mm hm, and you were already playing jazz?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: (overlapping) Oh yeah, I started playing jazz when I was young, I (stammers), I've worked from when I was 14, as a jazz musician.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5749.0,5762.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: And you haven't quit since?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Not yet.  (EUGENIA ZUKERMAN laughs)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Is there anything musically we should know more about now about The Gates of Justice?  The polytonality we talked about? Did you learn about polytonality from Darius Milhaud?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5762.0,5789.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e I learned a lot about polytonality just listening to his music and, um, I, I was kind of playing around with it before I met him, but after I met him I really started developing in that direction.  And I, he was the master, I think, (stammers) still the greatest polytonal writer that there is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5789.0,5821.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: What, for you, is the big interest? What draws you toward hearing different tonalities all at once?  \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: What draws me to it?  Well, just, uh, uh, like, you'd take a chord like (music) this G‑flat chord and put a C‑chord (music), I love that sound, or if you spread it, (music) Stravinsky used that in “The Rite Of Spring” (sp?), that, that chord (music), I used it all the time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5821.0,5856.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: And you were the first, really, to bring it into jazz?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Maybe, oh, on my first record I used some polytonality and, um, I, I think, uh, Duke Ellington got there before me but, uh, I, I started playing, well, I wrote things in, in three keys at once...\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Uh huh.  (laugh)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5856.0,5890.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: ...  in the forty, uh, '46 when I was studying with Milhaud, uh, and Paul Desmond (sp?) my saxophonist used to get quite angry (laugh) with me when I'd play behind him, and get two or three keys going at once.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Did it confuse him or did he just not like the sound?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5890.0,5890.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: He didn't like it at first and he got very good at it and really developed, uh, uh, wonderful sense of, of polytonality with, with the alto saxophone, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: (overlapping) Mm hm, uh...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5890.0,5929.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: (overlapping) Oh, uh, I remember the first, my first record is “Blue Moon” (music) and that's in E‑flat, now I put (music), and I love that up a minor third into a new key...\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: (overlapping) Mm hm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5929.0,5955.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e ...  relationship, I use it all the time.  But that's a, that was 1949 that I did that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5955.0,5963.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e I wanted to ask you, this is not about “Gates of Justice”. But, at the height of your popularity you decided that you would stop touring with your quartet to write serious music and stay at home, and now much later, was it a good choice?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5963.0,5984.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: Well, I thought it would be a great choice, but I, uh, only lasted well, what I told Duke Ellington, I was retiring and was leaving the quartet and he said, you'll be back in a month.  (EUGENIA ZUKERMAN laughs) And, and he was almost right, it was, I think maybe six weeks...\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Uh huh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=5984.0,6011.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e ...  but it was by accident that, um, there was a, a big festival in Mexico and a lot of the usual guys were going down to play but they would not go down to the festival if I didn't come.  So George Wien called me and he said Dave you gotta go, uh, to Mexico and I said, I don't have a group anymore.  And he said, well, I've got Gerry Mulligan down there, will you play with Gerry?  And I said, oh, but we need a rhythm section.  And he said, well, I'll have a lot of rhythm section.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=6011.0,6055.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK (CONTINUED): And I said, I, I don't like to just go in blind and pick a, pick a rhythm section, I want to have a, a rhythm section and a little (stammers) rehearsal.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Mm hm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: So he said, well, if you don't come you're putting a lot of guys out of work.  And I said, oh I don't want to do that.  (EUGENIA ZUKERMAN laughs) So I went right back, started a whole new quartet, Jerry Mulligan, Jack Six, Alan Dawson, and we were gonna be for maybe a couple of concerts and we lasted six to 10 years, so that, my, that was my retirement.  (laugh)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=6055.0,6092.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"EUGENIA ZUKERMAN: (overlapping) So that was your retirement?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: (overlapping) But you didn't work as much because you were doing a lot of writing?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: And you’ve written ten cantatas or oratorio. What's the difference between a cantata and an oratorio?  I've never figured it out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=6092.0,6109.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: Neither have I.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Oh good.  (laugh) “Voice in the Wilderness” is an oratorio, right?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: And Gates Of Justice is a cantata?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=6109.0,6124.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK: (overlapping) That's a cantata.  I think the difference is supposed to be, an oratorio is supposed to tell a story...\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: (overlapping) Uh huh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: ...  like an opera tells a story.  And a cantata, I think, can be made of individual pieces that have a relationship to each other.  (technical)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e[b-roll]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=6124.0,6144.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: You know, earlier we were talking about going to Poland and playing in cultural exchange and we did 12 concerts and I wanted to see Chopin's home and we went to see that home in, what was the name of the city?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: Unpronounceable.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=6144.0,6175.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: Lreush (sp?), or something.  (laugh) ...\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: (overlapping) If you’re talking about Lodz it’s actually pronounced Vodj (sp?)?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Okay, thank you, I never knew how to pronounce it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=6175.0,6184.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK: (laugh) Vodj.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: And, um, so I, I saw his pianos and I guess his home and then the statue in, in the square in front.  And then we all got on the train to ride that night to a concert in another city and going through my mind was all the Chopin that my mother had played, of course, she loved Chopin.  And so at the concert we had, uh, uh, a wonderful final concert and the interpreter asked me if, if I would play an encore.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=6184.0,6235.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK (CONTINUED): And I said, well, I've had this theme in my head all the way on the train and I want to call it Thank You to the Polish people for, for, uh, this wonderful tour and he said, then you call it “Dziekuje,” and he said, that means Thank You in Polish.  And I, I said, it'll be my thanks, uh, for the tour and also for the music of Chopin and for the wonderful experience I've had here.  And we have to play it without rehearsal, but my quartet will join me and it is a Polish theme (music).","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=6235.0,6404.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e Beautiful. Had a little Fur Elise at the end. Let’s talk about this wonderful etching. Can you tell me what it is?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=6404.0,6420.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVE BRUBECK: You see, when I was building a, our first house, in Oakland, California, I, Milhaud  said, well, I want to see where you're going to build your house, and it was in the hills, kind of between Mills College and the University of California in Berkeley, but on the sky way.  So, we went up there and just parked the car and, and he looked at it, and he said, why don't you build?  And I said, it costs $15 a square foot to build, we don't have any money.  He said, when you build, I will give you $15, and you must give me a square foot, because I want one place in the world that's mine.  I've lost everything.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: My goodness.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=6420.0,6486.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVE BRUBECK:\u003c/strong\u003e So, (stammers) we built the house, and we left a square foot unfinished in the hearth.  And finally, we had built a road, because he was in a wheelchair, and couldn't get up the stairs, and we could drive him up, and he came into the house, and wanted to see his square foot, and he said, have you a piece of paper that will fit in there?  And I said, yes.  He said, give it to me.  So the next day, in the-mail, we got this, which says, to the Brubecks, the owner of the square foot, souvenir of Creation of the World, which was the first ballet to use classical music and jazz.  And all these notes are themes in a self-portrait from Creation of the World.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=6486.0,6549.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK: And it actually looks like him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Uh huh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tIOLA BRUBECK: It, it's a, a good likeness.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: And then you had it etched onto brass?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: (overlapping) Copper.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Copper.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: Uh huh, I think it is.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: It’s just great. What and extraordinary memento. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIOLA BRUBECK: Yes.  It's a marvelous souvenir.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Did you ever quote Milhaud in any of your work?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVE BRUBECK: Probably all the time.  (laugh)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=6549.0,6580.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788/transcript/29036/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IOLA BRUBECK: I think he's probably just embedded in the brain cells some way.  (technical)\u003cbr\u003e[music]\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEUGENIA ZUKERMAN: Thank you. What a treat.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e[Rabbi Charles Mintz of the UAHC commissioned The Gates of Justice.]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43695/file/116788#t=6580.0,6865.344"}]}]}]}