{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/3n20c4t36t/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Frenkel, Uri with Samuel Kelemer"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","metadata":[],"provider":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/111/945/small/FrenkelandKelemer.jpg?1622114511","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - L1925_MA_Oral_History_Frenkel_Klemer_1_Fixed.mp4"]},"duration":3295.232,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/111/945/small/FrenkelandKelemer.jpg?1622114511","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-milken.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/111/945/original/L1925_MA_Oral_History_Frenkel_Klemer_1_Fixed.mp4?1619696255","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":3295.232,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Uri Fenkel with Samuel Kelemer [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: So now, Hazzan Frenkel, we were just talking about, about your Vienna days.  You came, you came, but actually-\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  I lived in Pressburg, one hour away from Vienna.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And Pressburg of course was famous for another hazzan, too.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Samuel Stern.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=16.0,31.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Yeah.  And also Rosenblatt was in Pressburg for a while.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  No, a very short…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Short time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Rosenblatt was in Umkatch.  For years.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You were born where?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  In Umkatch.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Carpathians.  And, and you came from a cantorial family?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  No, but the family used to like to sing.  They used to like to act.  I had a brother — an actor, alav hashalom. He’s lying here.  He was in Vienna, and he acted in Vienna.  That’s where he became an actor.  He used to sing magnificent.  And I had my oldest brother, alav hashalom, Chaim Frenkel.  In memory of my-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=31.0,71.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KELEMER: Son.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: My son, zei gezunt.  He used to sing, also acting and singing.  But nobody else.  She, my sister sang, but not professionally.  It wasn’t allowed.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  You also started very young.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Who, me?  I was six years old.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Both of you were…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  It was by seven that I ran away from my home.  From Umkatch to Beregszász.  Did you hear of Hazzan Braverman?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=71.0,100.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Sure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  He was hazzan in Umkatch.  When my father gave me a good spanking, and I ran away from Umkatch to Beregszász.  There was a Hazzan Lieber.  Did you hear of him maybe?  And I sang with him. From there, I went to Pressburg.  Took me four weeks to get there. Shlomo Zalman Stern.  And he took me to Leeds, to Manchester.  We were in Manchester first.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=100.0,129.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  How old were you then?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  I was already about thirteen, in my fourteenth year.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Your voice hadn't changed yet, or…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  And my voice started to change in Manchester, and I left for Prague.  The Conservatory of Music.  Under Professor Wallerstein.  There were two brothers.  One was a conductor, one was a voice teacher.  And the voice teacher was my teacher.  Professor Wallerstein. From Leeds, Stern was accepted to come to- from Pressburg, Stern was accepted to come to Manchester.  And I had a friend by the name of, I’m sure you know him — Hillenbrumer?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=129.0,178.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KELEMER:  Ah.  Also a cantor.  He was in Florida with them.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  He became a rabbi.  Both of us were taken with, by Stern to come to England, to Manchester. In Manchester, my voice started changing.  I went to Belgium after.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  By yourself?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  My brother was living there.  Two brothers, whom I have here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Let me ask you about Manchester for a moment.  Or for that matter, Leeds.  I mean, when you were in England.  At that period of time, do you remember…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=178.0,212.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"FRENKEL:  Elevant?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, you sang in what, you sang in the choir?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Yeah.  With Stern.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And what kind of a synagogue was it?  I mean…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  The synagogue was, was called the United Synagogue.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, it was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  It was called…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  It was an Orthodox synagogue.  They didn’t know from Conservatives, unless they knew it in here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, do you remember what kind of music you sang?  What composers?  I mean, what was popular in England in…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=212.0,236.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"FRENKEL:  We sang Gottlieb.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, Isaac Gottlieb.  Did you know him?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Well, I knew him before his death.  But I was too young.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He was the son of the Hassidiche Hazzan, wasn’t he?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  I loved…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The Hassidiche Hazzan.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  His father was the Hassidiche…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  His father. His father.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  His father was the Hassidiche Hazzan.  The two brothers, the Gottliebs, became in England hazzan.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=236.0,261.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Now, that’s, that’s an interesting thing, because the grandson — I don’t even know if he’s alive or not — I’ve been, I’m trying to find him right now.  If he would be alive, he’d be in his mid-80s.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Oh, he would be an old man.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Doctor — no, I met him two years ago, that’s all.  But he, he kind of disappeared; I’m still trying to find him.  There’s a, he has a son in Montreal, I’ll, I’ll locate him. But the point is that he’s also an Isaac Gottlieb.  And he, he told me that his grandfather, the Hassidiche Hazzan…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  How, do you know how he became Hasidic?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, but, I don’t know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=261.0,293.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"FRENKEL:  He had to run away from a place.  I think from Russia.  And they had to cross a very, very cold river.  He crossed the river.  He came out of the river, and his voice was gone.  He lost his voice.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And that was it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  But he never changed his profession.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But he died very young, I think.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  He died very young because of the problems that…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  …developed in Czechoslovakia.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But then…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  He was hazzan in Ungvár.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Uh-huh.  That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: (INAUDIBLE)?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=293.0,320.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: That’s right.  But I’m curious — he is given credit for composing the tune that’s today known as the quote-unquote “Hasidic Kaddish,” you know for the… Yeah, the Kaddish Shaleym. Yit’gadal, v’yit’kadash-\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER: So many people think, so many people think-\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  I don’t think so.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Koussevitzky did, David Koussevitzky.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, but Koussevitzky definitely didn’t, because I’ve seen manuscripts older than Koussevitzky.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  I don’t think that he composed it.  Not, not Gottlieb.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  His grandson insists that he composed it, and he has a manuscript, but it’s…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=320.0,350.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"FRENKEL:  Then don’t argue.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I don’t know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Don’t… maybe.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, the one you sang was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  The way I knew, he was not.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now the Gottlieb that you knew was his son — the Hassidiche Hazzan’s son.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And you, you did it… that’s right.  And, and you did it, some of his music, with the choir?  A lot of his music?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  No.  Stern.  Hazzan Shlomo Zalman Stern.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  From Pressburg.  Had his own music from (sounds like Rezumne)?.  And he had a book from Rezumne.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Choir music also?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=350.0,381.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"FRENKEL:  And he was… yes.  He, he was the hazzan in the Rezumnishe Shul.  Stern.  And when he had to, then he became hazzan in Charkov.  In Russia.  And then he flew, he ran away from there.  Became hazzan in Pressburg, Pressburg and Manchester, and then Manchester, here.  He wanted to come here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  How about some of the, did you do Alman?  Was that done a lot?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Shmuel Alman?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  I did Alman.  We were very close with the Russian-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=381.0,411.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Very what?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Close. Let me tell you a story with Alman.  There was- three brothers by the name of Landau.  Two were hazzanim and one was a rabbi.  And this, the hazzan wanted to take a job.  It was in Brighton.  Did you hear of Brighton?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, sure, I’ve been there.  Sure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  And he went for a try-out Friday night.  Alman had a habit of going, because he was employed by the United Synagogue, to go and listen incognito to the hazzanim. Especially when they took on a new one.  So he went and he went that Friday night when Yitzchak Landau, alav hasholem. (Yiddish)  And he had to…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=411.0,473.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KELEMER:  You take a breath.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  And he sang (sings)… But then he came up. (sings) Shmuel Alman got up and he walked out.  He could never get a job with the United Synagogue.  Since then.  Yitzchak Landau. (Yiddish)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=473.0,520.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Did, now, I’m going to ask you a question which may sound strange, but I’ll tell you the reason for it afterwards.  There were no women in your choir, were there?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  God forbid.  Women?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Okay.  Now, I’ll ask you…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  In England?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.  Because Alman had women in the, in his choir in London.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  (Yiddish)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: (Yiddish)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But they began to allow it.  For a while, the United Synagogue…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Not in my time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Not in Manchester, though?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Not in my time.  Manchester, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.  In London, they did.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  In Manchester was Alman and what is, Herschman’s brother.  Nisht Mark Herschman — the other one.  Fine hazzan, he was.  There was a hazzan who was there, Pinkasovitch.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=520.0,558.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Oh, yeah.  Though he was in Germany, too, then, after that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Pinkasovitch was in England.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Solomon Pinkasovitch.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  I think there’s some records of his that he released.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  There is only one record of him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  One record.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  One record, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  I have it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, there’s more now.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  More?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  There’s some on a few places, some rare things.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  And then there was, I said Elevant.  There was, what is his name?  Who davenned, he was known here in the United States?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=558.0,593.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Modell?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  No, Modell was my conductor.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  In Manchester?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  In Leeds.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, in Leeds.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Uh-huh.  That was Levitt Fisher.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, that after the war or before the war?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  It was before the war.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Because then Modell left, what was in…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  After the war, he came here to the United States.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  But what is his name?  He was a (Yiddish). A Koussevitzky. A short guy.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Did you know a hazzan there by the name of Garbosh?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  I heard of Garbosh, I never knew him.  But this hazzan — a Koussevitzky.  Somewhere near, near, near, not Detroit.  But in that district there.  And I hope he’s still alive.  He was hazzan in Budapest.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=593.0,646.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And tell me about Vienna.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Vienna I can only tell you that I sang in Pressburg and every year, they made concerts.  And then every year, they brought over another hazzan.  Among them was Margolis, Fleischmann, Itchele- Itchele Weiss, Frenkel came over, Mann came over.  That was the only thing I knew over in Vienna.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Did you study there?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Two years ago… no, no.  Two years ago, I went to Vienna.  And I wanted to see Sulzer’s temple.  There was a whole story; finally, they let me in.  I came in.  It was small, plain shule.  Do you remember it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=646.0,697.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KELEMER:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  But it was his shul.  Beautiful.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s unusual.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  His picture there.  A (?)…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Have you been there, Shmulich?  To, to the Sulzer temple in Vienna?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Never?  You should go there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  I will.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Take me, and I’ll go with you.  I promise you.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER: Good, good.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: I promise I’ll go with you.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So now, what brought you to the United States?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  To the United States I came in 1946.  I came to the United States because I wanted to bring over my brothers.  They were living in Prague.  They were living in that part of the world, and I wanted to bring them out.  So finally, I came.  I brought them out.  One was a multi- multi-millionaire — Shloime, the oldest one.  And there, I came here and I got a job in Phoenix, Arizona.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=697.0,757.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  First job?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  With Rabbi Klein.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That was your first job?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  That was my first job.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Rabbi Klein.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  I came back from Phoenix, Arizona, because I had to leave it on account of my daughter.  It was too hot. Nate Katzman met me, met my brother.  And he says, “Cantor Katzman,” alav hasholem, “this is my young brother, a hazzan, too.”  “A hazzan?” he says.  “I got a job for you.  There is a hazzan by the name of Fish — Schiff, he’s leaving his job.  Would you like to get a job?”  So, “Is he still there?”  He says yes.  As long as the hazzan is in shul, I will not go. And I came, I remained, Rabbi Klein came over.  Rabbi Klein knew me from school in Pressburg, when I sang with Stern.  And he decided to bring me over to Manchester — wait a minute.  Where was I?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=757.0,822.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  From Arizona.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  In Arizona.  And then that story, with Itzekel Schiff, when they sent him to come and listen to me. Because he was very sick.  He had to give up his position.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now that was here, in…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  That was here, yeah.  He brought me over, I became hazzan in Judea congregation.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But how did you find out about Arizona from Europe?  I mean, you came directly from where?  Where were you in ’46, before you came here?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  In ’46?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  I came here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But from where?  Directly?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  From Manchester.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, directly from Manchester.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  From England.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Uh-huh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Directly from England.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So you never spent any time on the East Coast?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  In the East Coast?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  In New York, or in…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  I was hazzan in Brooklyn, East Third Street.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, you were?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  With Rabbi Dr. Karlin.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Before Arizona?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Yeah, Oscar Julius was my conductor.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=822.0,869.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"FRENKEL:  I came - should I tell you a story with Oscar Julius?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, please.  I knew Julius well.  Did you know Julius, Shmulich?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  He conducted for me.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He conducted for you as well?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  On Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur plus Passover.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Eisenberg was a manager of hazzanim.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Have you heard of Hyman?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Hyman I knew; Eisenberg no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Eisenberg was another…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  I…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=869.0,890.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"FRENKEL:  He, I met him somehow, and he took me to meet, what is it called?  The shul in Brooklyn.  (Yiddish)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, you mean, the Beth El of Borough Park?  Or…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER: No, no, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  It wasn’t Borough Park.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Beth El of Borough Park.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  The Sephardishe shul?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  No, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But the Sephardishe shul?  Anshe Sephard?  Or Temple Emanu-el?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  No, no, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Uh…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  An Orthodox shul.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, no, Orthodox, yeah.  Uh…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Orthodox.  That’s where I met Schiff.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=890.0,925.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Schiff was at Beth El of Borough Park, I’m pretty sure.  I think.  The same one where Moshe Koussevitzky was later?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Beth El of Borough Park.  Temple Beth El.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  With (?). Schiff and I, we became very great friends.  We went to Dr. Reichlin.  Did you know a teacher, Dr. Reichlin?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  You didn’t know the voice trainer?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Very famous.  He brought me to Reichlin.  I studied voice with him, and then Schiff and Fish — no, Schiff — introduced me to Eisenberg, and Eisenberg, I don’t remember the name of the shul now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=925.0,967.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  It doesn’t matter.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  But I remember I davenned there.  I became hoarse.  No microphone.  (Yiddish)  And I became hoarse.  And I had to go to a doctor, doctor, a doctor that was the doctor for the Prince of Wales in England.  Professor (sounds like Buchbind).  Have you ever heard of him?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  He cured my voice.  I had problems.  I was sweating, swollen, and he cured me.  From New York, from New York, Pinchik — I became very, very close to Pinchik, alav hasholem.  Pinchik said to me, “I have a job for you.  Uri, far mir.  Gayn nacht Manchester.  And (Yiddish).  Nisht Manchester.  Far nir gay…”.  What was my first job?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=967.0,1037.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Was it here? New York?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER: New York.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: Not New York. It was in…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Pittsburgh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: Newark, New Jersey.  From Newark, New Jersey, I came to…(?).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER: (?)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: Moshele Ganchoff was across the street. He was- he used to come every second week to daven. He davened only twice a month. He went home in the afternoon and we met Friday and that’s how we got very close. In fact they, (Yiddish). She died of cancer. Like his wife. So now I have to think. (Yiddish).","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=1037.0,1092.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Tell me about Julius. What was it like to sing with Julius?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: To work with Julius. I was introduced to Oscar Julius by, did you hear of a man by the name of Ben Shalom?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER: The wrestler.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: The wrestler.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: A wrestler?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER: He was a champion wrestler.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: Four brothers. Wrestlers. They were born in Pressburg. And I had (?) by their mother. You know what a (?) was?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: (?). We used to eat days by families.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: An essen teg.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: Essen teg.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Essen teg. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=1092.0,1127.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"FRENKEL: And I used to have a day with the, by this Ben Shalom. And when I came to the shul, one of the younger brothers looked at me, “Aren’t you Isidore Frenkel?” So I say ‘yes’. “Do you know who I am?” (Yiddish)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER: German.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: Nein. My name is Ben Shalom. (?) Yes! (?) And he introduced me to Oscar Julius. Oscar Julius, I came to his house, he brought me to East Third Street, with the Rabbi Dr. Karlin. There was a committee. And I sung for him, what did I sing for him, and he made me sing it twice. The first time because I improvised, I didn’t do what was written. And I had to sing it twice. After I sang it a second time, they gave me a contract for one year. For one year, I went to Israel for a concert tour-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=1127.0,1208.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Was that your first time in Israel?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: In Israel. At that time. I was there, and Oscar Julius became very friendly. Then I went to Newark, New Jersey. Or after New Jersey. I don’t remember.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Doesn’t matter. But how was Julius to work with?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: To work with?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: He was very strict. He said, “Can you read music?” He said, “Look here. I’m not Paderewski. Want to read music? How do you sing it? Because I’m going to listen to you.” I said, “Be my guest.” He brought out a book, he sang soprano and I sang tenor. Or vice versa. He says, “Alright. I’ll get you a job.” And he got me the job on East Third Street. And he became my conductor. After that, I went again to Israel for a trip and there was the job waiting for me in Newark, New Jersey. From Newark, New Jersey, I came-\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER: Pittsburgh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: To-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=1208.0,1282.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KELEMER: Pittsburgh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: To Pittsburgh. Pinchik provided Pittsburgh for me.  Pinchik said, “I have a job for you.”  It was already the erev Yontiff.  It’s before the yom tovim.  He said, “I’ve got a job for you.  It’s in Pittsburgh.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  You were there a long time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  For 17 years.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Seventeen years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=1282.0,1302.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eFRENKEL:\u003c/strong\u003e In Pittsburgh.  But after my brothers came over here, I was alone.  I was married, I had already two children, and nobody to, no family.  So I decided I’ll come over to Los Angeles. Came to Los Angeles, and I went to, not far from Sam’s father’s butcher shop on Fairfax Avenue.  That’s where I met Nate Katzman.  And Nate Katzman, he says, “I have a job for you.”  And Klein got the window at the time I’m in Los Angeles. He came over, he listened to me, he went and he brought the president from the shul, from the synagogue.  From the Third Street Synagogue in Phoenix, Arizona.  He took me downtown to Wilshire Temple.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIn Wilshire Temple, he put me on the pulpit.  A (Yiddish)I never had.  But I started singing for them. And Schubert — used to be the president by the name of Schubert, alav hasholem.  Tall, handsome man.  He used to walk around the women’s bema, you know, the women’s place, and listen if I will be heard.  And he wanted that I should come. I went to lead — to Phoenix, Arizona.  I davenned.  I got the job.  But I had to leave on account of my daughter. And then the story with Schiff, Itzekel Schiff.  That’s how I got here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=1302.0,1409.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Now, Shmillich…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  This is a short version.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You, you also worked with Julius.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I say. What do you remember about Julius?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Julius, Julius I worked on a shabbosim.  I’ll show you this here.  He was very kind, and you know what I had to do?  This is a, I can’t believe it.  I had to fill in solos for, for choirs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Why?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  When the choirs sang, there was a cantorial solo.  And I took my liberty, but I always led him to it — don’t ask me how, don’t ask me what, don’t ask me — I always led him.  By nature.  But I loved the way he conducted. By the way, do you have his book?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=1409.0,1452.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  I have not only his book, I have…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yeah, I’m sure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I have the entire collection.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  I want to go back something, when you spoke about Rezumneh.  There’s a book printed for hazzanim Rezumneh.  In there is the Amar Rabbi Elozer that Yossele Rosenblatt sings.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But it’s just recitatives.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Recitative, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  We were talking about Julius and Karpov-Kagan.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  So now they had the three choirs. He rehearsed them.  And for Yontiff, he used to divide, he used to be my conductor.  Then he gave one, he had, I think, a girl, used to conduct for him.  And then he gave one for Karpov-Kagan, alav hasholem.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=1452.0,1489.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  To conduct?  Karpov-Kagan?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  No, no, no, no.  His choir.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Uh-huh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  The girl was a-\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It was his wife.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  She became his wife.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Ruth.  Ruth.  No, no, I’m sorry.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  No, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Esther.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  No, no.  No, not Esther.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  I don’t think- it’s a long time.  I don’t know.  I didn’t make notice of those things. So he, Karpov-Kagan became friendly with me.  Far vos hazzan. Julius gave me a plot to read, I read.  From one ulterior learning tazayfin music.  I told him where I’d been.  And he started to…. He lived, I lived in Ninetieth Street; he lived in Ninety-first Street.  And Ganchoff lived in Eighty-third Street. But there was a restaurant where he used to come to eat, and I went to eat it.  It was a delicatessen store.  (Yiddish).  So whenever he used to see me, he never ignored me.  Never ignored me.  Because he was a…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=1489.0,1565.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KELEMER:  Russian.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  A giant of a man.  I am five feet seven.  He was so tall.  And he was so wide.  And he used to talk with a gevalt gis shtinne.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  A taraysch, mit taraysch.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: (Yiddish)…  That’s how he used- he was the president.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  At one time, he says, “Smar caches.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Ir zait hazzanim…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Ir zaitz mar…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Ir zaitz mar caches!  Alright. He was marvelous.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=1565.0,1603.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KELEMER:  By the way, when he came to New York, he has his first appearance in the Public Theatre.  I was there as a kid.  And he did a Ma’ariv.  On stage.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Nobody left.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  But a lot of the hazzanim that came did Ma’ariv in the theater.  When he was in voice…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Let me tell you something.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  With a choir, Ma’ariv?  Or no?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Let me tell you something.  Julius wanted to introduce me to the public.  And he used to, by intermission, by Goodman, alav hasholem — you know Maurice Goodman? (?)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Who?  Murray Schwartz?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=1603.0,1641.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"FRENKEL:  Murray Schwartz.  Excuse me.  He wanted to introduce me, so he used to bring hazzanim, that by intermission, he had them sing… Rumshinsky used to accompany me.  I came with a quartet, and (Yiddish).  Was it Katz?  Or his daughter used to sing? \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER: Freydele?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: No, she became Stern’s wife.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: She- yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  I guess.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=1641.0,1676.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eFRENKEL:\u003c/strong\u003e Katz.  And he had to take a low Oooh… and you’ll excuse me… And I sang.  I sang. They wanted me to sing something that, so I sang (sings)… And after, and I sang, and then I wanted to get off the pulpit, off the stage.  So Oscar says, “Come on, let’s go.”  He, this Katz, I don’t remember his name.  He says, “I can’t.”  “Come on.  (Yiddish) — let’s go.”  He says, “I can’t.”  (Yiddish)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=1676.0,1729.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KELEMER: (Inaudible)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: That’s the truth.  That’s what he used to do. And then we used to get very, very friendly.  And introduced me to the Hazzanim Farband.  In fact, my, the book, at the big concert on Hazzanim Farband, you will see a page…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Hazzan Uri Frenkel.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  I have it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Look for it and you’ll find a write-up in Yiddish.  That’s what I, that’s how I came along to New York.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And Uri…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  In New York…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=1729.0,1770.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KELEMER:  I’ll tell you what Karpov-Kagan did — this is unbelievable.  He took the cantors into the union.  What was the name of the big…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, you mean the musicians’ union?  The Yiddish Actors’ Union?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Not the Actors’ Union, but we belonged as cantors…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  The Jewish Ministers.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, you mean the Jewish Ministers, the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But that wasn’t…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Why.  Because it was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You mean the Farband.  The Hazzanim Farband.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  The Hazzanim Farband.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The Jewish Ministers…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  There was a story about weddings, with the, with the strikes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  There was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  We were sympathetic to…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=1770.0,1800.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"FRENKEL:  …competition between Julius and Sterner and then Bob Nadel.  Not Bob Nadel.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.  Abraham.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Abraham.  Abe Nadel.  He was my conductor for a while, too.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Yes.  I brought practically up in his shul.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And of course, there were others — Ben Friedman.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Froman, Froman, Froman.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  When you…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Froman?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  And Fox, was that the case.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Froman, Froman.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  No, no.  The wife of the Basheva.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, I know who you mean, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Fraydele the Hazzan?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, no, no.  Basheva’s.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  From the Borough Park.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Basheva’s husband.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yeah.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Basheva.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  He was known.  He did work.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Ben, and there was Ben Friedman.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  No, not Ben Friedman, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And then there was, what about, well, this was later — Lappa?  Irving Lappa?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I think that’s later, that’s later, isn’t it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Then I did…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=1800.0,1843.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Jackie Goldstein.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  With Nadel I was very close.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  With whom?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  I used to adore him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Did you sing with his conducting ever?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  With whom?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  With Abe Nadel.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yeah.  And his children.  What are you talking?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, well you know…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  He was very musical.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  You’ll see it when, you’ll see, when you see ask them, that they know me.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Sure. And, but Julius, I think, was in a different category.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  He was the most…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He was the most musical, wasn’t he?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  First in musical.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  He was the greatest musician.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Plus, he was a little, very literary.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=1843.0,1871.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KELEMER:  He knew, he also, he did, he did something to me that I’ll never, never, never forget, and Uri reminded me.  He was supposed to conduct when I was a kid — probably 11, 12 years old, Empyrean Manor in Brooklyn, I did Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur.  They told me Julius.  He sent Sam Sterner.  That was a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  A momser.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  That was a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  A momser. Should I tell you a story with Oscar Julius?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  And this just (?), Hazzan.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Ay, ya, ya, ya.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  (?), yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=1871.0,1909.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eFRENKEL:\u003c/strong\u003e At a Ma’ariv concert, he’s supposed to daven Ma’ariv.  Calls me up.  It was a Sunday morning.  “Uri, please.  Coba comen laren.”  He used to speak a little German.  “A little laryngitis.  Daven Ma’ariv for me.  (Yiddish) I had a wedding last night.  I’m tired like a dog.  Please, Uri.  You won’t fail me.  Sterner is your conductor.  “Oy abrucht. Sterner?  Vay iz mir.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eI come to the pulpit, the choir stands around me.  And I said to Sterner, “Give me E freygish.”  So he gives me G-freygish. (Yiddish, sings) All right. I came down to D.  So he says, “This son of a bitch.”  And me, he says, he thought of a (Yiddish). He didn’t like me, because I didn’t make my weddings with him.  Only with Sterner and with Nadel.  So he…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=1909.0,2007.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KELEMER:  Sterner really…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  He wanted to kill me.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You mean with Julius and Nadel.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: Julius and Nadel.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: But he, Sterner, hated my guts. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER: He made a big business out of the-\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Sure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER: Grossinger, Grossinger.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Sure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER: I lived through the Grossinger year. Two years with Grossinger.  Summer in the mountains and the winter in the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You did?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Two years with Grossinger.  I’ll never forget it.  Two years. Harry was a dear friend of mine.  And she, I was her teacher, too, Jennie’s.  Wonderful years.  Met all the personalities, we talk about it.  At the pictures.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=2007.0,2045.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Tell me — when you came, when you came to Los Angeles, you found a, a certain community of hazzanim here.  A certain hazzanim.  Shmillich, you were here already then, no?  No, no, you weren’t here yet.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  He was in Florida.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You had been here and then come…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  He was in Florida. I came here.  I saw in the papers, the Yiddishe papers, a concert.  It was a concert that Vigoda is davenning Yom Kippur Katan.  Vigoda.  And Moshele Ganchoff Ma’ariv, and there was one third hazzan, I don’t remember. And I found out — I had an Anthony Eden hat, ‘cause I was from England.  And my tie, an Englishman.  And I found out the address from the synagogue.  And I went to daven there for the first time. When I saw that, I’m telling you, when I heard that the first time, I thought that the sky had fallen.  Shmulich goes to daven Yom Kippur Katan, and I heard Moshele Ganchoff.  It was gorgeous.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=2045.0,2124.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KELEMER:  By the way, there’s a Yom Kippur Katan that Zeidel Rovner wrote.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  And he did it, and I was there.  With Adelson, with the, the hazzanim that he traveled around with. Mordechai Hershman was one of his, too.  But the hazzanim, that brie.  That’s Hazzan…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Shlomo Hershman.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, the brother.  Mordechai’s brother.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Shlomo Hershman.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Right.  It was in, in the Romanishe shul.  I heard it, with Zeidel Rovner.  And like a (Yiddish).  He didn’t conduct.  He was something.  Zeidel Rovner.  Nobody believes that I…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=2124.0,2157.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"FRENKEL:  I, they took me to the shul, to the Romanishe shul, with Machtenberg.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Ah…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  That Machtenberg should listen to me, if I am a hazzan.  So he took me over, came there, and nicht zun.  I used to sing (sings).  And when I sang, Pinchik…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  The Pinchik.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Believe me, I sang it well.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But I even see you, you’re, you’re imitating his voice, his voice, actually, not just the…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=2157.0,2192.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"FRENKEL:  Do I?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That’s the way he… right?  Am I right?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  So he says to Eisenberg, “That is a hazzan.”  That’s all.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Eisenberg.  You have to…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Moshe Eisenberg.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Moshe, you have to go into the history of the hazzanim (Yiddish).  And that’s a whole story.  Eisenberg, Hyman, and Lifschitz.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Hyman was a (Yiddish).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  And you had in Philadelphia, Philadelphia, two managers, the managers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=2192.0,2221.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  You only have one like that now.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  In Philadelphia.  It was also Hyman.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yeah, it’s true.  No, no, no, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Hyman had a big work in that…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, Hyman was in Chicago at the time. Not Philadelphia.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Hyman was in Chicago.  He was the manager of Pinchik.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The manager of Pinchik, a lot of people.  Did you have any direct dealings with Hyman ever?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  I did.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Once.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What, tell me that story.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Ma’ariv?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That one, that one.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  A Ma’ariv concert by, by a big Rabbi in Milwaukee.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Twerski.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  For Rabbi Twerski.  He arranged for me a Ma’ariv concert in the shul by Twerski.  And I (Yiddish)…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And, and did you get paid?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  That’s what I’m telling you.  He took the money, and I was…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=2221.0,2266.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  No, but after, but did he ever pay you what he owed you?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  No.  Never.  I didn’t want to bother.  I just… I knew him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Did you know Pesele Karas?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  I have lots of letters.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Pesele Karas.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  I have contracts and lots of letters from Hyman.  Lots of them.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Oh, lots of them.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Where, do you know what, save all these — this is very important for us.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  I have them, I have them.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  For the Center.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  I have them.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Pesele Karas had the wonderful story about Hyman.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  He was a fine, fine hazzan, Pesele.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, well, when he was a child.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  No, I did concerts with Pesele.  I’ll show you tomorrow cut-outs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  Pesele, when he was 11 years old, has a wonderful story….  How about you?  You have a, did you do, have any direct dealings with Hyman?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=2266.0,2302.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KELEMER:  What are you talking?  Hyman managed me, oy!  In, in Chicago.  The letters and the contracts. But I’ll tell you what happened there.  I don’t know what I told you.  While I was there, and I had a contract with him, but my movie, the Yiddishe movie, started showing.  There was a movie that’s gone now — Kol Nidre, Yiddishe Mama.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  We haven’t, we haven’t found it yet.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  No.  They found, I haven’t, I found something.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnyway, the Roosevelt Theatre engaged me to appear in person, and he didn’t get a commission.  That was something, a big zatz.  But I appeared in person.  I think it (?) or Katz, I don’t know, but they showed the movie, and I appeared in person.  And I gave him up, because that was the money. But I have contracts with Hyman.  Hyman.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=2302.0,2355.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Now, tell me, when, this, both of you, I mean, you’ve watched the art of hazzanas — and I’m saying the art, not necessarily, not only the profession, but the art of hazzanas — in, particularly in this area, change a lot, I imagine, over, since the time you got here.  I mean, what, what’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Since…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Since you…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Change?  Oh…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Absolutely changed.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What are some of the ways?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  The question, the question is it le tovah or le ra?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=2355.0,2389.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"FRENKEL:  No, no.  But you, you interpret it as tovah or that.  I’ll tell you what I feel about it.  To inspire him, to inspire you what you will say.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  No, no, please speak.  Because you’re, and I’ll tell you why.  Because I was, you were more with the Orthodox hazzanim.  I was already, I was already a member of the Reform movement.  In fact, I was a pioneer in the whole thing, so I saw the young people come up.  So, and it was quite a change. Not only a change, and very few, especially in this area, you find the hazzanim that we’re talking about.  And I’m not degrading the ones who were there, but they may have there.  Like he said, was Bar Mitzvahs and activities and activities and singing with the crowd, and….  But it’s different, especially today.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=2389.0,2448.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"FRENKEL:  It’s a problem with them.  I feel there is a problem with them.  They do not know how to interpret what they’re singing.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  No, it’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  (Yiddish). They do not know how to interpret it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  They read the music.  They read the music.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  They do not add a little bit of neshomeh, which is what they need.  And they do not know how to interpret.  One phrase I would like to hear from another hazzan.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNow, Nate Lam and Joe Gole, they’re learning how to use their neshomeh.  They’re learning.  It is not, it is not imbued in them completely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=2448.0,2489.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KELEMER:  Uri, we have to agree — a hazzan as we are talking is born.  We have to say.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  A hazzan is born.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Born.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Yeah.  That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  And they’re not to blame.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  But they can still learn something.  Like a violinist.  A violinist, you can’t add neshomeh right away as you, as you put the bow to the, to the string.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yes.  They’re tied to the music.  Tied.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  But the minute that you, the soul comes, the second that you put the bow to the, to the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Strings.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  What do you call, to the what?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Strings.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  To the string.  A hazzan…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  There are lots of exceptions, I want you to know.  Let’s be fair.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  You heard of hazzan…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Take a Mizrahi, a Sephardi, a Serkin…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Well, Mizrahi is already…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  …he’s a singer, a singer, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  …comes from a part of some…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  No.  He comes from a Sephardic — he didn’t have Ashkenazic.  He comes from a Sepharadi.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Sephardim.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=2489.0,2539.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KELEMER:  So, no but he was brought up as a Sepharadi.  And this is a wonder.  But he has the tools — this is our nusaḥ.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  But…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Tools, with the hunyach with the, with the public.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  …singing, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  For the paches, definitely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  But…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  New York has still hazzanim.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Finkelstein.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  A hazzan.  I mean, this is a hazzan.  Although, some people say there is a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Uri, remember about Pinchik.  Tell me — do you know that Pinchik had a position for a year?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Where?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Where?  That’s what I’m asking.  Never.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Never.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Pinchik, well…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER: ‘Cause I’m telling you that Pinchik — one second — had, please understand me — one davenning, two davennings, and went around with the same davenning.  They never, Pinchik…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=2539.0,2586.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eFRENKEL:\u003c/strong\u003e But I heard him, I heard him Shavuos — excuse me, I don’t want to interrupt you.  I heard him Shavuos in Atlantic City.  He took me, he says, “Come join me.”  ‘Cause I had no position at the time.  “Come join me.”  And (?), I slept in the same room. And there I davenned Shavuos, I davenned, he davenned with his siddur upside down, because the one that stood near him looked inside.  He didn’t want him to look.  I did not hear two phrases from him the same as he davenned…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=2586.0,2623.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KELEMER:  No, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  …the first day.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER: Shavuos, first of all, Shavuos, is a holiday.  No, it’s hard, you can’t, no that means you can’t.  But he had a davenning Friday night for Shabbosim…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  But of course…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  …or concert…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  …he had to go to build them.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  …concertin, he was not, didn’t give a good concert.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Sang the Russian things…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  ‘Cause, cause…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  …conquering the Czar, in his songs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=2623.0,2640.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Oh, he sang, let me ask you about that.  He sang those songs here?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Certainly.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Oh, of course.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  At concerts in Florida, he gave a concert…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But the Communist songs?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  The what?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You said the Russian — did I hear you say the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yes, Russian.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Because he wrote some of those.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  No, no, no.  He sang from, from the classics, Russian.  That was very popular.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Like what?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  I don’t, I don’t think I remember.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  I sang some of his songs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, I thought you were talking about, he wrote some, a lot of Yiddish songs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  I know.  I know.  Nu, nu I mentioned…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But there were also some left, some politically left-wing communistic songs…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yes, yes, yes, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …that Pinchik wrote when he was in Russia.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Did he perform those in public here?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  But I sang his songs…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Nu, nu…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  I used to sing…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=2640.0,2682.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KELEMER:  …but it was not at a concert.  Because first of all, he didn’t stand.  He played the piano and he was seated, always sat down.  But he filled in, he filled in.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So what is your…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Should I tell you what happened?  How we broke up…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  …that closeness?  I proposed to my wife, Shari.  I said to Shari, “Shari, before I marry you, I must take you to meet a hazzan, and I must have his consent.”  That’s the truth. He took us out to a restaurant, and we had dinner.  And Shari was, my wife was sweet like sugar.  Like sugar.  And he looked at me and he said, “Mmmm.  Zayn?  Zayn?”  I married her.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=2682.0,2744.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KELEMER:  He spoke very slowly.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Pinchik.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  “Mmmm?  Mmmm?”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  He, he criticized a lot of the cantors.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  But we…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Glantz he criticized, Rosenblatt he criticized.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Oh, Glantz he criticized very much.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Right.  He couldn’t understand him, he said.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Moishe Oysher, you know, he had a Ma’ariv concert, and he called him, an intre idio — an intelligent idiot.  Why?  Because he wrote a (Yiddish)…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  (Yiddish)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  (Yiddish)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=2744.0,2775.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  So obviously, there’s no question that Pinchik was your favorite hazzan.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Ho, ho, ho. No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But if you had…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  No denying.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No denying…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Nobody…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  You know who…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But who…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Dovidl Gold.  Dovidl Gold.  Dovidl Gold, a hazzan.  That’s right.  He wanted to accompany, not only to wear the hat like Pinchik, but he weighed 4 or 500 pounds.  He came into a restaurant, he said right away, “Give me for $17.” Didn’t matter what.  Dovidl Gold.  Ah…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  It hurts him like a (Yiddish).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  (Yiddish).  Oy, he followed Pinchik.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  But he was a cute man.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=2775.0,2813.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KELEMER:  Uh, huh, huh.  He, you know, those hazzanim were really the spice of life.  The spice of life.  The (Yiddish). The (Yiddish).  And even the jealousies and the, even the gossip, especially the Hazzanim Farband. By the way, (Yiddish) Hazzanim Farband, I don’t know whether you know him.  He was a hazzan, was no more hazzan. Is Weiner.  Weiner.  He gave out the (Yiddish).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Weiner?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Uh, did he have a voice?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Here, in Los Angeles?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  No, in New York Hazzanim Farband.  \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=2813.0,2846.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KELEMER: He was the king of giving (Yiddish).  He sent me to Boston, because of this.  But that was a character.  That was, a book can be written about him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  And handsome.  Like a picture.  (Yiddish).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  How would you, how would you direct — both of you, I mean, each one of you separately, I mean — if you could, the future direction of hazzanas?  I mean, what’s going to happen to this art of hazzanas?  Is it gone?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  No, no, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Is it dead?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Our hazzanas is gone?  There will always be a (Yiddish).  Because the trouble is not with the hazzanim, but the trouble is with the Orthodox movement.  They’re taking a lot of youth today.  And they won’t sing…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=2846.0,2890.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"FRENKEL:  I don’t think Israel will allow it to die.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  …singing songs.  Look what happened to Rabinovich. That’s the problem. But you cannot, they cannot get as good the hazzanim.  Bagley and all of them.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Yeah, but they’re screaming bloody murder.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yeah.  Say, Shriner.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Ugh.  (Yiddish).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  (Yiddish).  But these…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  I don’t think it’ll die.  I don’t agree with all, whatever they’re saying.  I think that the modern hazzanas will develop into something that has a (.  Just the opposite what they’re saying.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=2890.0,2932.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KELEMER:  It depends who writes, whether cantors or composers, you know.  They…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Well, listen.  A Nate Lam in a Reform shul.  In a Reform shul.  He sings at a concert — from whom does he choose to sing?  From Zavel Kwartin.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yeah, but there’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  From whom?  Not from…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  No, no, he sings…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Whom are they learning?  From Moshele Ganchoff.  I don’t think it will die.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  I hope not.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  It will not have the spirit and the energy that it still has, that it…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=2932.0,2974.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KELEMER:  But we have to remember this.  First of all, there were European hazzanim that came over.  Also, the immigration.  And (Yiddish).  The shuls are filled are hazzanim, filled with hazzanim.  Hazzanim.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Wherever you go.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  (Yiddish).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  And they won’t work the hazzan with that, ‘cause of a tool, with their dreidl.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  By the way, (Yiddish) among the Orthodox, the Kwartin (Yiddish), the Beth El — not Beth El.  What was the name of Kwartin’s shul in Baltimore?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=2974.0,3010.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  I don’t remember.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Ah!  Kwartin!  Before him was Levitt.  With Zalis.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Zalis or (inaudible).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It was Beth El of Borough Park — no.  Zalis was Emanuel.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Emanu-El, that’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Emanu-El.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  That’s where Kwartin was.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  At one time, remember, Rosenblatt, Hershman, and Kwartin were in Borough Park. Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  I don’t…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Interesting, yeah?  Interesting.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, you’ve been out, you’ve, you’ve been in Los Angeles a total of how many years?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Now it’s 35 years probably.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Thirty-five?  And you a total of?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  More.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Also about 35, no?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  No.  Mine’s more, I think.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  His is more than mine.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  No, no, the concert. In concert-\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But you both…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yeah, over, over 40 years.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …are established, established figures in Los Angeles.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=3010.0,3052.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And you’ve, you’ve watched Los Angeles change…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  In terms of, of hazzanas.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  For me, it didn’t change.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, in the synagogue — you served in which synagogue?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Judea Congregation.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  In the one, for how long?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Modern Orthodox, 17 years.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  On Fairfax.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now when you say Modern Orthodox, what do you mean?  What does that mean?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Men, women sat together.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So it’s not Orthodox.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  They call themselves Modern Orthodox.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, I know what they call themselves, but…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Was my nephew the cantor, rabbi there?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Huh?  Rabbi Levine.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Rabbi Levine.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, for example…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Rabbi Parkin.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER: Rabbi Parkin.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  In other words, this is, you were there until you retired?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  No, I was there ‘til I left.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  He went to…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  And became a hazzan in the Valley.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  …the Valley.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  They sold the temple.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So first you were in a traditional synagogue.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Oh, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And then, and then in, where in the Valley?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=3052.0,3098.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"FRENKEL:  In the Valley…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Maariv.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  In Maariv Temple.  Since then, I’m still there.  Now, they call themselves Ner Maarav.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So have you seen the appreciation for hazzanas change because of the people…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  In my shul?  Very much.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …that will appreciate…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Very much indeed.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You had a choir there always?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  I, for Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  And every Friday night.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  A choir.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Men, women.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Men and women.  And, and the people appreciated this?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Very much.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And they still do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=3098.0,3125.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KELEMER:  What happened that they said is, that a cantor became involved with families and Bar Mitzvahs.  And they endeared themselves.  And we know some cantors that (Yiddish).  But they’re beloved, because they get integrated into the mishpocha. There are others that bring forth special Shabbosim, that bring down the concerts.  Different, different style. In New York, the big thing, too, has to be the history of the concerts of cantors.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  How about out here?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  By the way, I sang a concert with Bari and Yisroel Shaw.  So…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  (Yiddish).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Ach!\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  (Yiddish).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yisroel Shaw? (Yiddish)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  I don’t even know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  David Moshe Shternberg.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Before your time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But before…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=3125.0,3175.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"FRENKEL:  (?) Shabbes.  (?) Shabbes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But before…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  He has a record doing Moshe Shternberg’s — Emes V’Emunah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Ach!\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL: (sings)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Not this one.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.  Whose is that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  I have no idea.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The famous one is the Zeidel Rovner.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Zeidel Rovner.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But there’s two.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  (?)… yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Did you play that…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Ah. (?)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  By the way, do you know the (sings)?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  That’s Kwartin’s.  Kwartin did that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  One of the big issues…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  Kwartin I heard a Ma’ariv.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=3175.0,3210.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eKELEMER:\u003c/strong\u003e When I was in, when I came to America as a child, I never heard anything, records.  And I heard the first time Rosenblatt sing in (?).  And since then, I was so imbued with him, that I had this (?) to do — we did our own arrangement of, of Sh’ma Yisroel, like he says he was for Pinchik. And I was in his house.  And he davenned, he davenned in my shul as a child, I already had a (?) at (?) Talmud Torah.  Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. And he davenned a Shabbes, and I remember — what do I remember?  That (Yiddish).  Rosenblatt said to him, “(Yiddish).” And by the way, there were men singing soprano.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=3210.0,3277.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945/transcript/34997/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Male sopranos.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yeah, male sopranos.  Ah, (Yiddish).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFRENKEL:  And he had them, Julius had them.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKELEMER:  Yeah, certainly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40281/file/111945#t=3277.0,3295.232"}]}]}]}