{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/6q1sf2mt0j/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Smolover, Raymond"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Preferred Citation"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eSmolover, Raymond. 1999. Interview by Neil W. Levin, Barry Serota, and Charles Davidson. Milken Archive Oral History Project. 21 April.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Milken Family Foundation"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e© Milken Family Foundation. Unauthorized use is prohibited. For inquiries, please contact info@milkenarchive.org.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Smolover, Raymond (Cantor/Hazzan)","Levin, Neil W. (Interviewer)","Serota, Barry (Interviewer)","Davidson, Charles (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1999-04-21"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["New York, NY (Place of Recording)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (Primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eOral history interview with Raymond Smolover focused on his roles as choir singer and hazzan, his work as composer and librettist, his views on vocal pedagogy and vocality, and his thoughts on music and the sacred in Jewish religious services. Also encompasses topics including Max Helfman, the Temple B'nai Abraham, the Brandeis-Bardin Institute (formerly Brandeis Camp Institute), and the various recordings with which Smolover has been involved.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.milkenarchive.org/artists/view/raymond-smolover\"\u003eView Artist Page from the Milken Archive\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["Beta SP"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Jews -- Music (Topical Term)","Oral Histories (genre/form)","hazzan (Topical Term)","Brandeis-Bardin Institute (Brandeis, Simi Valley, Calif.) (Person Or Corporate Body)","Helfman, Max (Person Or Corporate Body)","Temple B'nai Abraham (Newark, NJ) (Person Or Corporate Body)","Bardin, Shlomo, 1898-1976 (Person Or Corporate Body)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Keyword"]},"value":{"en":["Abraham Goldfaden (1840-1908), American Conference of Cantors, Brandeis-Bardin Institute (Brandeis, Simi Valley, Calif.), Brandeis Camp Institute (Hendersonville, NC), Camp Alonim (Simi Valley, CA), Carnegie Mellon University -- College of Fine Arts, Chassidic Gems (recording of songs), Chassidic Sabbath (liturgical service by Charles Davidson), Chelm (opera by Robert Strassburg), Edge of Freedom (liturgical), Gates of Freedom (liturgical), Gulfport Army Air Field (Miss.), Hag HaBikkurim (sacred feast), hazzan, hazzanut, Hebrew Union College -- School of Sacred Music, interfaith dialogue, Isaac Levi (opera by Frederick Piket), Max Helfman, National Federation of Temple Youth, NFTY, Paul Ben-Haim (1897-1984), Pennsylvania -- Pittsburgh, Richard Rive (1930-1989), Sh'ma Koleinu (sacred song by Max Helfman), Shlomo Bardin (1898-1976), Tanglewood Music Center, Temple B’nai Abraham (Newark, NJ), The Golem (opera by Lazar Weiner), The Last Sabbath (opera by Charles Davidson), The Sons of Aaron (opera by Siegfried Landau), The Sound of the Shofar (recording of liturgical settings), Tree of Life Synagogue (Pittsburgh, Pa.), Union of American Hebrew Congregations, Walter Spencer Huffman (1921-2005), Where the Rainbow Ends (poem), Yiddish-Israeli Duets (recording of songs), Yiddish art song"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eOral history interview with Raymond Smolover focused on his roles as choir singer and hazzan, his work as composer and librettist, his views on vocal pedagogy and vocality, and his thoughts on music and the sacred in Jewish religious services. Also encompasses topics including Max Helfman, the Temple B'nai Abraham, the Brandeis-Bardin Institute (formerly Brandeis Camp Institute), and the various recordings with which Smolover has been involved.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003ca href=\"https://www.milkenarchive.org/artists/view/raymond-smolover\"\u003eView Artist Page from the Milken Archive\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u0026copy; Milken Family Foundation. Unauthorized use is prohibited. For inquiries, please contact info@milkenarchive.org.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/111/929/small/Raymond-Smolover-855.jpg?1620157392","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - 13085_Raymond_Smolover.mp4"]},"duration":4593.664,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/111/929/small/Raymond-Smolover-855.jpg?1620157392","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-milken.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/111/929/original/13085_Raymond_Smolover.mp4?1619689905","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":4593.664,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Raymond Smolover [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Well, thank you for coming in to talk to us about your illustrious days up ‘till now, so far, in Jewish music, or the music of American-Jewish experience, and particularly in certain areas in which you have really worked very, very much over the past decades.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eI think, let’s just start to talk a little bit about — what do you want to talk about?  You want to talk about first the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  Yeah.  Well…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …the, the…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=17.0,45.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVIDSON:\u003c/strong\u003e …I, I think \u003cINAUDIBLE\u003e.  Well, I think we should do it chronologically, from your background in Pittsburgh, Ray, where you sang in the choirs, is a good place to start, I think.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=45.0,59.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSMOLOVER:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, actually, this marks my 70th year of singing in the synagogue.  I started when I was eight years old, when a hazzan by the name of Mescheroff came by in my father’s butcher shop and said, “I hear you have a son that sings.  I want to hear him.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=59.0,75.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So we went to the back room, and I sang for him.  And he gave me a job.  And that was the first time I sang in the synagogue, called the Russische Shul, where all the Russian Jews belonged, on Miller Street.  And I sang there for quite a while, as the boy alto.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=75.0,94.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think the positive stroking set me off for a lifetime.  Because seeing the — the women, of course, sat in the upper balcony.  And my mother, being the youngest of 13, the entire balcony was practically mishpoche.  And so, after you sang a solo, you ran upstairs, and all the aunts give you hugs and kisses.  And, well, what’s a better profession than that?  So I remained with it, hoping to get hugs and kisses, for the next 70 years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=94.0,127.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSEROTA:\u003c/strong\u003e Who was the cantor there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=127.0,145.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSMOLOVER:\u003c/strong\u003e The cantor was from Russia.  Had a, a very lovely daughter, I remember.  Oh, what was his name? Herman Halpern was the rabbi.  His son was the organist.  And I was at Carnegie Tech at the time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd I also would sing, from time to time, with the Rodef Sholem Temple, as a choir person.  They didn’t have cantors.  I still, they’re just thinking about getting one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=145.0,170.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And from there, I went into the Army Air Corps, and was stationed in Mississippi as a navigator, and where I went with a bunch of fellows from the Fine Arts Department at Carnegie Tech.  And we entertained the troops down there while we were in training.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tAnd one chaplain came over.  I, he heard me sing, he asked me if I would sing for the services.  It wasn’t a Jewish chaplain — it was a base chaplain.  And we sang for all the services.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=170.0,206.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then the Jewish chaplain, Lewis Milgrim, asked me to sing for the Jewish chapels.  And shortly thereafter, he was shipped to Germany, and they asked me to take over and be acting chaplain while he was gone.  They pulled me out of navigation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=206.0,221.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I remained for three-and-a-half years, conducting the services at the Gulfport Army Air Base.  And I was in charge of the Jewish personnel — their welfare.  And I, every Tuesday night, I would do concerts with a wonderful composer by the name of Spencer Huffman, of sacred music of all kinds.  That’s where I learned most about Brahms and Schubert.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=221.0,248.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then, when I got out of the Air Corps, I came to New York and tried to find a job singing in a choir.  And I got one for ten dollars, singing for Max Helfman’s choir.  There was a Jewish People’s Choir, Jewish People’s Philharmonic, The Workmen’s Circle Choir I sang for, with Lazar Weiner and Ruben Kossakov.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tAnd I remember one wonderful incident, where I was the first tenor in a Toscanini choir, when they had Richard Tucker and Jan Peerce doing those recordings of operas in Studio 8-H.  And I was also first tenor for the Workmen’s Circle Choir when they decided to do Judas Maccabaeus in Yiddish.  And Richard Tucker was supposed to be the soloist.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=248.0,298.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"At the last minute, he became indisposed.  And they asked me to do it, to learn it in Yiddish, which I did.  But it was for only $75, so I asked for a little more money.  And they said, “What would you really like?”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tAnd I said, “I’d like to have a grand piano, a baby grand piano.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e“Fine.  You can have a baby grand piano,” because someone in the choir owned a piano factory.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=298.0,320.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that was my first baby grand piano, which we now call the Judas Maccabaeus piano, no matter who made it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd I did a lot of singing there with the, Max Helfman, who then invited me to be a hazzan shani at Temple B’nai Abraham in Newark, where the hazzan was Abraham Shapiro, Joachim Prince was the rabbi.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=320.0,344.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I just had a new little baby with my wife Evelyn.  And I needed to earn some money.  And Max Helfman offered me the job to be hazzan shani on the condition that I would go to the Brandeis Camp Institute, where — in California — where they were beginning what they hoped would become like a, in addition to the Jewish leadership program, something that would become like a Jewish Tanglewood.  And so I went out there for ten weeks.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=344.0,375.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSEROTA:\u003c/strong\u003e Could you backtrack for a moment, and tell us about your experiences in Pittsburgh, relative to the various cantors of the city that you worked with?  Cantor Bloom, you mentioned?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=375.0,394.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  Yes.  The one I remember most when I was a teenager, before college, was Hazzan Bloom at B’nai Israel, who was just the most wonderful hazzan.  And a mentor, a real teacher.  The sort that takes you under his wings and, and encourages you to really sing.  And he was my mentor then as Max Helfman was, years later.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Do you remember anything about the repertoire that you sang in the synagogue?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=394.0,422.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSMOLOVER:\u003c/strong\u003e The repertoire, as I recall, in the early years, was really, there was a, a conductor by the name of Sam Brody, when I was really just under the bar mitzvah age.  And there were usually melodies that they had picked up.  Except there were times when a very outstanding hazzan, like Kapov-Kagan or Roitman, would come to Pittsburgh on a concert tour.  And for Shabbat, we would sing with them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=422.0,456.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSEROTA:\u003c/strong\u003e Did these visiting cantors usually officiate in a certain synagogue?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=456.0,469.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSMOLOVER:\u003c/strong\u003e They would officiate, they were celebrity cantors, and they would go to the various synagogues.  But at that time, most of the Orthodox synagogues were in what we call the “Hill District,” on Miller Street and streets nearby.  The Russische, the Romanian Shul.  And they would come and be the celebrity cantor of that time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=469.0,490.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSEROTA:\u003c/strong\u003e You mentioned a few minutes ago a cantor who was in Pittsburgh also around the same time — Eliyahu, or Elias, Zalikowsky.  Do you remember Zalikowsky?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=490.0,514.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  I remember the name, but I didn’t know him.  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  How many years did you go to Brandeis?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  I went to Brandeis the summer of ’48, And then in ’49, Shlomo Bardin asked me to be the director of the Brandeis Camp Institute in Hendersonville, North Carolina.  And I did that for that summer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=514.0,535.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then, 1960, Max Helfman had a heart condition.  And Shlomo invited us to come back out to California, where I was in charge of Alonim, the children’s camp, and helped Max with the music.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Alonim was separate from Brandeis?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  It was right on the campus, but at another part of the camp.  But to was a children’s camp.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So it was a division…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  A division.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …for young children, younger children?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Yes.  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What did you do?  What kind of things did you do musically?  Did you just start to create things for them, or did you…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=535.0,563.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSMOLOVER:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I was involved with the music and the administration.  I was actually the head administrator.  My wife was working with them with the drama.  And they had others doing the dancing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=563.0,577.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Actually, they had the same sort of faculty for the Brandeis, for the Alonim as they had for the Brandeis Camp Institute itself.  Dani Dassa and the others would go over and work with the kids’ camps.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=577.0,591.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e That was a period of time, wasn’t it, when the, one couldn’t get enough of Israeli or just a few years before that, Hebrew-Palestinian —","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=591.0,607.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …this was the fad, the fascination.  And I say that in a very positive way, because it was very genuine music with which people were fascinated.  Genuine folk music.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eWas this the period, for example, Helfman did a number of settings for, of really very traditional Palestinian folk songs — was this, did you…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …do these things yourself…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=607.0,626.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  That’s when he wrote this two-part choral version of many, many Israeli songs — Sakhki, Sakhki and all of those.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I’d like to hear anything you can recall about that — about your involvement.  Because we’re doing a recording of those things, probably with the Vienna Choir Boys.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=626.0,640.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSMOLOVER:\u003c/strong\u003e He was in the midst of, of composing it, in those years.  And we ran up against an awful lot of problems with the Israeli composers, who — I think they felt their copyrights were being infringed upon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=640.0,656.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSEROTA:\u003c/strong\u003e When you say “we”…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=656.0,672.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  When, that meant that Max had brought out to the Brandeis Camp the first year, in ’48, about eight singers.  There was a wonderful soprano by the name of Shapiro.  And then there was an Israeli alto who was just great.  And Bill Wolf was there.  I don’t know if that was that year.  But…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  There were two separate kinds of publications.  One was Hag HaBikkurim, which I think was the, the, was the material that you sang like in Westchester.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=672.0,704.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  Saleinu and all of those.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  Right.  Leila ha’dimama and that stuff.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Right.  Correct.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  Um…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=704.0,708.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  That’s right.  But this was separate from the Hag HaBikkurim.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The Hag HaBikkurim is a, well, that’s a four-part S-A-T-B, isn’t it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yes.  And that’s already like a self-contained cantata.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=708.0,715.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Was there…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Shavuot Cantata.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Shavuot, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  Max wrote it for Shavuot.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  And at the same time, he was making these other arrangements that everybody at BCI got in a booklet.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You mean they’re related, in a way?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=715.0,729.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  No.  I don’t think they were.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Or he’d be doing them at the same time he was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Except that they might have been related, in the sense that Charles mentions in they were celebratory for holidays, and stuff of that nature.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  You could use some of the same melodies…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=729.0,740.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  …in different formats.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Uh-huh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  So the melodies that were in the Hag HaBikkurim four-part he could have also used in a two-part arrangement.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  But I don’t remember that there’s a different…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=740.0,39164.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  But one of the things I, I hope you…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I don’t think there is — and I’ll tell you, it doesn’t make a lot of sense.  Because remember, I told you people, what’s his name?  Resnick and people like that.  I remember them, they were doing something very big with a thousand children and you know, in Douglas Park there.  And I had the idea there was something Hag HaBikkurim.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSo then I looked at the Hag HaBikkurim, and I said it can’t be, because that’s S-A-T-B choral.  So there may be, it may be…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=39164.0,769.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  But Max…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Are any of the melodies the same?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Max would use melodies like from Hag HaBikkurim in simple versions for kids.  He had a facility for this.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And he wrote those down?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  I don’t know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tLEVIN:  You see, that’s probably what, that probably solves what….  Because I know I heard that they did it.  And that’s probably what they did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=769.0,784.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSMOLOVER:\u003c/strong\u003e Before we went to Brandeis, I remember singing in Max’s chorus here.  He had published quite a few marvelous, marvelous choral pieces in Yiddish.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=784.0,799.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I did a, a group of Yiddish duets, which was on Tikvah.  And they contained arrangements of Max’s choral pieces, but we arranged, he, for two voices…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tDAVIDSON:  Simpler.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  …that were very lovely.  And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  While we’re talking about Helfman, could we touch for a moment as to the synagogue music of B’nai Abraham, where he was the music director and where you mentioned you were the hazzan shani?  What kind of musical program did he present there, and…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=799.0,828.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  I can’t tell you too much about that, because I was only in the hazzan shani for the High Holy Days.  And then we used traditional — Lewandowski, Sulzer.  Things that Shapiro himself would improvise on.  And then a great deal of Helfman’s pieces.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  So I imagine he did u-Va Shofar Gadol.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=828.0,848.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  Mmmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Which he composed.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Did he sing another setting of the same text for the second day of Rosh Hashanah, or..\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  No.  Not to my knowledge.  It was at that time, however, that — this was ’49.  Somewhere around there — ’48, ’49 — when we started raising money for Israel Bonds with Max’s choruses.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=848.0,877.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I remember a concert at the — I think it was the Taft Hotel, at that time.  And Max is in the wings writing something that he says, “I want you to sing this tonight.”  And it turned out, of course, to be the Sh’ma Koleinu, that is now one of the great wonderful classical pieces for the holidays.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=877.0,901.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And he wrote it there in the wings on a, on an upright piano, with the waiters moving food back and forward.  And we went out and we sang it that night.  That was a wonderful experience.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Was that written at that point for voice and piano, or voice…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  …and chorus…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Voice and piano.  And Sh’ma Koleinu was never written for a chorus.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  There’s a version for chorus.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He didn’t — it’s not the way it’s printed.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  It may not be printed, but I happen to have a recording of him performing it — voice, chorus and keyboard.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=901.0,929.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  I’ll tell you who might have done a choral version like that... Newman.\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, Richard Newman?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Richard Newman?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  Richard Newman.  Richard might have done a choral version of it.  Because he was doing a lot of arrangements for Max at that time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=929.0,939.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSMOLOVER:\u003c/strong\u003e What’s very interesting about the Sh’ma Koleinu too is when it finally got published in Transcontinental, they end it differently than the way he wrote it.  He always went back to the opening phrase.  (Hums it)  Sh’ma, Sh’ma.  But they end it with the, the phrase that goes prior to that one.  (Hums it)  But he — not Helfman.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=939.0,965.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You have to know Helfman.  He would never end anything like that, with Sh’ma Koleinu.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Huh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  At any rate, we were raising money for the Brandeis Camp Institute in 1949 — early ’49 — up at Scarsdale at the home of Herman Weissman, an attorney.  And a man came over to me and he asked if I was a hazzan.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=965.0,986.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And he happened to be the rabbi, Lawrence Schwartz, of the Jewish Community Center, Center of White Plains, which was classic Reform, which had voted four or five times whether or not to have a cantor — not who should be the cantor.  They finally decided that — he wanted a cantor very much — and decided that the only way they could do it is for me to come up as the men’s glee club conductor.  Which I did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=986.0,1014.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I remember the first Friday night, he says, “I can get you on the pulpit.  I have to be a speaker in New Jersey.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tAnd so I conducted the service with the president.  And then afterwards, I asked Lawrence, “How did we do?”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd he said, “I don’t know.  I’m concerned.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1014.0,1033.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I said, “What are you concerned about?”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eHe said, “Well,” he said, “tell me what you did.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eI said, “I asked them to rise for the lighting of the candles, and we went on to the service until the Torah service.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1033.0,1047.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He said, “Back up a moment.  Did you ever tell them to sit down?”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eI said no.  They stood for a whole half hour.  So I almost lost, lost the job before I got it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1047.0,1059.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"However, I got the job on a trial.  And the trial remained without a contract for 45 years.  So I served the congregation for 45 years, retiring in 1994 as an active emeritus.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1059.0,1077.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I’m still active, but my relationship and how I got the job through Brandeis camp.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  There’s nothing quite like Brandeis today, anywhere, is there?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  Well, I think one of the reasons there’s nothing like Brandeis is because there’s nothing like Helfman.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1077.0,1094.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, Shlomo Bardin was a unique character.  Truly a, a leader, and, and a founder.  But the ruach, the, the spirit of Brandeis was Max.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1094.0,1105.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, you were also involved in the NFTY.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1105.0,1129.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  In the what?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  NFTY.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Maybe as long as we’re talking…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  Well…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …about camps, tell me about, especially with regard to your services that you wrote.  I’m thinking particularly of Edge of Freedom, primarily because I have the recordings and I see it and I happen to like that.  And I don’t particularly, I’m not…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1129.0,1148.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  I think I remember hearing from you…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  That…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  …when we made it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …but that’s a long — you’re talking about the 1970s, when I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tLEVIN:  And so I think we probably should include some of that in this project.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So why don’t we talk a little bit about how that came to be, and…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1148.0,1164.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSMOLOVER:\u003c/strong\u003e In 1958, I was invited to join the American Conference of Cantors.  And I was with them for a while when they asked me to become the Executive Vice President in 1968.  Which I retained until 1992.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1164.0,1179.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"’68, I got very involved with NFTY, because the offices of the American Conference of Cantors were at 838 Fifth Avenue, and I was in the midst of where everything was happening with the youth.  And of course, my kids were growing up.  Mara and David.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1179.0,1197.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And David at that time was a high school kid.  And beginning to play guitar and turning on Bob Dylan records for me.  And I’m listening and I’m saying two things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1197.0,1211.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He’s davening, very often. It’s almost recitative, in parts.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tAnd the other thing that always impressed was that I always felt we davened from the cop up.  We never davened from — as a kid, we used to shuckle.  Well, in Reform synagogues, you don’t shuckle.  So you only daven from the head up.  And I felt that rock music that Dylan was doing, with the beat, had this sense of the body’s pulse is always going on, whether we’re consciously aware of it or not.  The heartbeat continues, constantly.  And supposing music would do that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1211.0,1256.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Of course, it did, in popular music.  Swing music the beat is always constant.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd so I simply got inspired to, to write a couple of pieces.  And at that time, a source of real influence and inspiration was a rabbi, Henry Skirball, who was in charge of the National Federation of Temple Youth.  Who was one of these rare, wonderful rabbis who was an enabler.  He does everything to find people who he feels are worthy.  And the rest of the time, he does everything he can to enable them to do what they want to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1256.0,1292.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so he brought me into the NFTY camps.  And I got turned on, between Brandeis Camp Institute and NFTY, to suggest something which I called the Master’s Fellows Program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1292.0,1308.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The Master’s Fellows Program was something that I would hope would turn into a Jewish Tanglewood, where we would take 30 talented Jewish students in college in the various arts — poetry, composing, dance, painting — and bring them to where they could work with masters in the field.  Paul Ben-Haim, Isaac Bashevis Singer, Anna Sokolow, the dancer, Irving Amon, the painter.  And then we invited Paul Ben-Haim to come from Israel.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1308.0,1354.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we had two years of Master’s Fellows Programs.  Those were just absolutely the most exciting thing.  To this very day, people like Joshua Jacobson, from the Zamir Choir up in Boston, says it’s, it’s what put him into the field.  It was a very moving and wonderful experience.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1354.0,1373.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that was the time at which I wrote Edge of Freedom, which was a Sabbath eve folk rock service.  And I was then desirous of writing a Sabbath morning Torah service in the same idiom, which was called Gates of Freedom, which also included two of — Josh Jacobson’s Havdalah and Eliyahu Hanavi.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1373.0,1403.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Just prior to that time, I got involved, in 1957, I was doing a lot of concert work.  I, the Jewish Center Lecture Bureau had a very active concert bureau.  And they ran a concert, and I won the tenor.  And Edith Gordon won the sop, the soprano.  And they toured us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1403.0,1430.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so I built a repertoire of Yiddish songs and did a great deal of touring with Lazar Weiner as the accompanist, and did much of his Yiddish art songs.  So I began to specialize mostly in Yiddish art song.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1430.0,1446.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I became very much moved by a piece he had written called The Prelude to the Golem, which we did at Carnegie Hall.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1446.0,1458.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, in those years, in the ‘50s, every Tuesday night and every weekend, there was some Jewish concert going on at either, at either Town Hall or Carnegie Hall, with the Philharmonic Chorus or Max Helfman’s chorus or Lazar Weiner’s Workmen’s Circle.  And I loved that Prelude to the Golem.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1458.0,1484.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I had something going in my mind at that time, because I had become part of the opera department at Tanglewood, from 1950 to 1955.  Every summer, for two months.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1484.0,1497.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, in those days, at the Jewish Community Center in White Plains, which was classic Reform, for the hazzan to be off for two months was au courant — that’s fine, you know.  And for their cantor to be singing opera was yiches.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1497.0,1513.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I recall when I sang Pagliacci with New York City Center out in St. Paul, in my temple bulletin they had, “Cantor SMOLOVER sings Pagliacci on Friday night,” such-and-such.  They took great honor in this.  Impossible today.  But that’s the way it was then.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1513.0,1533.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So this was the 1950s, when I was Tanglewood.  And I was very much taken by, by Menotti’s chamber operas.  Amahl and the Night Visitors, The Thief.  And I was traveling with Boris Goldovsky doing tours, doing La Finta Giardiniera of Mozart.  And, and at that time, we were also doing Carmen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1533.0,1560.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I had a call after my City Center, which was just a season, to come down and audition for the Met auditions of the year.  And I went down there and I auditioned. And there was Rudolph Bing and Max Rudolph and everybody there.  And I sang.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1560.0,1583.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And they asked me to sing what I had sung at the auditions on the air.  I did.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eThey said, “Now, sing the song, the prize song from Die Meistersinger.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e0:","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1583.0,1596.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I suddenly said, I, “Look.  I, this is really not for me.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eThey thought I was crazy.  And I don’t know whether I felt I was or not.  But I simply said it.  And that was it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tAnd it was between myself and a fellow by the name of Albert D’Acosta.  And D’Acosta got to sing Meistersinger.  And in Zurich, on his way to a performance, he was killed in an automobile accident.  And I am a mystic enough not to be superstitious, but not to not entertain these things — the decisions that you make as being more than rational.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1596.0,1640.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I decided at that time there was some purpose to being with Boris Goldovsky and Menotti and Die Meistersinger to decide this is time for me to try to do something about chamber Jewish operas.  And so I decided to — I had been singing A Din Toyre Mit Got, and what a wonderful story for a one-act opera.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1640.0,1666.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I was my last year at Tanglewood, so I went to Lenny Bernstein.  And I said, “Listen.  There is this song that I sing, and it’s about this rabbi that comes to the pulpit and he places God on trial.  Wow!  Here in America, a chaplain comes back from the Holocaust.  How about and he places God on trial.  What a story!”  So I said, “I’ll do the libretto.  Could you do the music?”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1666.0,1692.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I had gotten five men together in Scarsdale to put up some money.  And Len said, “It’s a great idea.  Great idea.”  And invites me down to the house to talk to him about it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1692.0,40231.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I talk to him about it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eHe says, “How much money do you have?”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eI said, “Five hundred dollars.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=40231.0,1708.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And he said, “Well, it’s going to take too much time for $500.  Can you get some more money?”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSo I went back.  I couldn’t get more money.  And that was that with Leonard.  And so Max Helfman suggested Frederick Pickett.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1708.0,1727.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e You never orchestrated that, though?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1727.0,1754.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  As far as it got was one version of piano and strings.  A small group of strings.  But that’s as far as it got.  But it’s really a wonderful piece.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Was there any reason why thought wasn’t given to commissioning Helfman to write an opera?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1754.0,1771.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  Why I didn’t get Helfman to write an opera?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  I used to try to get Helfman to write an opera.  And Helfman was a theater person.  And I remember once, he’s — doing a wonderful work at Carnegie Hall in which I used his theme — it was a big wedding ballet — (hums some of it) — and I used it for L’kha Dodi in Edge of Freedom.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1771.0,1797.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVIDSON:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes.  Warrenbud.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1797.0,1811.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  Warrenbud.  And we were…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  Norman Warrenbud.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  And we were looking around.  And I said, “Max, you ought to be writing a musical.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tAnd Max said, “Yeah, I should.”  But he didn’t.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAt any rate, Isaac Levi was the beginning of five operas that we commissioned and performed and toured, actually.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  This one, I’m trying to remember.  Was it performed on the bimah once or something like that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1811.0,1835.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  Always on the bimah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tDAVIDSON:  Yes.  Always.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Always on the bimah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Isaac Levi is always done, was always done — as a matter of fact, one of the early performances I remember doing it in an Orthodox synagogue in Baltimore, where the rabbi was the son, I think, of…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1835.0,1849.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVIDSON:  Of Rosenblatt.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  …of Rosenblatt.  And I thought, gosh, you know, would they take umbrage to this subject?  And no.  Because Jews are very good about arguing with God.  And it went very, very well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1849.0,1864.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then, I commissioned Robert Strassburg to write Chelm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, how did that happen?  So you commissioned him, and…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  I, I met Robert at first in New York here.  And then we went to, he be, he became part of Brandeis.  Max took Bob under his wings, as well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1864.0,1883.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then the third opera commissioned was The Golem, with Lazar Weiner, which first was a two-act opera.  And then, when we did it up in Rochester, Sam Rosenblum said, “You’ve got to expand it.  It, it, it needs another act.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1883.0,1903.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so we did another act.  And I think it’s a wonderful opera.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  You did the libretti for all of these?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  I did the libretti for all.  And I also directed them.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Was that, you directed them?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  Now, but to backtrack, Chelm had some performances here at all?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1903.0,1922.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  Chelm had performances — we had a lot of performances on the East Coast, traveling through the Jewish Center Lecture Bureau.  They, they were the concert bureau for them.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tDAVIDSON:  Was Leah Jaffee…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Leah Jaffee.  That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd then we went as far as, we did a Western tour as far as Cleveland.  We did a lot of performances, in those days.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But Chelm had an orchestration.  But it’s been lost.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1922.0,1946.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  Yes,  yes.  Chelm did have an orchestration.  And it was done again.  About five years ago, Shelley Merrill did it out in San Diego.  And as a matter of fact, Harold Orbach just recently did this year Isaac Levi, out in Detroit.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Right.  I think he told me.  And actually, Chelm was done also.  I saw a performance of it in Los Angeles at Brandeis-Bardin.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1946.0,1970.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  At the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What do you call it?  The House of the Book?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  Yes.  Mmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The Book of the House.  Whatever it was.  But this is even maybe three years, four years, three, four years ago.  But the trouble is that he has lost the orchestration.  When he moved, the movers lost the boxes, whatever it is.  And if we want to do it — which I do want to do it here…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  I’ll have to look at the piano score, which I still have.  Because we did…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Do you want to orchestrate it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  We did the orchestration…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, he’s willing to.  He says he’ll do it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  I remember the orchestration, because we did it in Wantagh, Long Island.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, it doesn’t mean a big, but…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=1970.0,2000.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  No, it’s, it’s a very chamber, it’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But it needs — I don’t care if it’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Today, it could use what we would call a, a klezmer ensemble.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  I think there were five pieces, by the way.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  That’s right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2000.0,2013.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then the fourth piece we commissioned was from Charles Davidson, The Last Sabbath, which was a pulpit dance drama.  The story of the last survivor in, in the Warsaw Ghetto, who insists upon davening the Sabbath service and who is betrayed by one of his own.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2013.0,2039.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it was a wonderful work.  And that’s been done a great deal.  And I thought it worked very well.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd at first it was a, it wasn’t Anna Sokolow who choreographed that.  It was…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2039.0,2054.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVIDSON:  Sophie Maslow.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Sophie Maslow.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It was both a dance piece and singing?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  It was The Hasidic Sabbath, the music was The Hasidic Sabbath.  Plus dance.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2054.0,2064.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSMOLOVER:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes.  It can be done without the dance.  But as drama, it works very, very well.  Just beautifully.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eThen the final commission was The Sons of Aaron, with Landau.  And that was a more complicated work, and we didn’t get to perform that very much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2064.0,2081.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e The Golem was done — in those days, it was done — where did you say it was done?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2081.0,2101.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  We toured it a great deal.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You toured it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  It was also presented at NFTY.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  Yeah.  And that was the summer I was there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, it was done at the Y.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  It was done at the Y.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, there it was done with the usual orchestration that they had, which was what?  Sixteen, 18 instruments.  One of…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2101.0,2117.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  …whatever it was.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  I was not involved with that.  And we had gotten into a disagreement about how it should be done, and so forth.  And I begged out.  So I really don’t know what it was like.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Do you think, in all candor, I mean, do you think that The Golem is Weiner at his best, as opposed to his lieder?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2117.0,2137.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSMOLOVER:\u003c/strong\u003e I think portions of The Golem are really first-rate.  Of course, they don’t have — well, yes.  I was going to say they don’t have some of the complication of some of the art songs.  But on the other hand, they do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2137.0,2153.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I, I think it’s a wonderful work.  I really do.  I, with perspective, and no longer being involved with personalities involved, I think it’s a wonderful work.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: If you think there is an excerpt of maybe even as small as ten minutes, an aria or…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  Candle Lighting is something.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  Either an aria or a scene.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2153.0,2174.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  Well, for instance…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Or…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Quiet Lights, you know.  (Sings a little of it)\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, but isn’t that the same as his Shtela Licht song?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  It was from the Shtela Licht.  Yes.  I don’t know whether Shtela Licht came before, or whether he incorporated it or not.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, if you could pick out pick out a scene that will have an impact, on a purely audio recording then we can talk about it after.  Or you could send me some ideas.  We have the score.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2174.0,2200.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSMOLOVER:\u003c/strong\u003e That which inspired me was the creation of The Golem.  The first scene, the prologue.  Which he then expanded.  Which I think works.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2200.0,2208.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It’s between the Maharal and Avram the Sexton, creating the Golem.  That’s a wonderful spot.  It lasts about ten minutes.  Then there’s a wonderful spot of a seder scene.  There’s also a wonderful spot between the Golem and little Devora, whom the Golem, like the man in, in Of Mice and Men, remember the — Lenny — yeah, Lenny of Mice and Men, he doesn’t realize his strength, and how endangered Devora is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2208.0,2246.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There are a lot of wonderful scenes in it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Could you say that about any of the other operas that were commissioned?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  I think Isaac Levi really should be recorded in its totality.  I think it’s a wonderful piece.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, I spoke to Harold about it.  The problem is that it has to be, it really needs to be orchestrated.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2246.0,2264.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Bob is just waiting for the signal to redo it.  \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLevi Yitzhak, I think, is a very important thing.  I have a copy sitting here for many, many years.  So it’s sitting…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  I’m, I’m trying to get us to do another performance of it, up in Westchester during 2000, to celebrate, to commemorate.  I think it says something about the Holocaust and America.  And to do that at this time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2264.0,2290.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"During this time, I was very involved, as I had always been, with singing.  The act of singing.  Which always impressed me, as it didn’t matter where I was singing or from, for whom I was singing.  The act of singing is a holy thing to me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2290.0,2310.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I was much more interested in what it is that makes one sing.  Not only spiritually.  How does it work?  How does this instrument work?  And I have really devoted a half-century to studying how the voice works.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2310.0,2327.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Not how we think it works.  Not how others say it works.  What is the cause-effect relationship in retaining the survival of the human voice?  Why do wonderful singers lose their voices before their prime?  And why do others have problems?  Why did I have problems in my 50s?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2327.0,2346.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so I spent a, a great deal of time.  And my doctorate was actually on vocal analysis and modification.  How to come up with a quantifying group of exercises which would have a cause and effect relationship to vocal pedagogy.  Which I wrote in a couple of books.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2346.0,2368.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e You worked in that context over a number of cantorial — either cantors or cantorial students who have worked with you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2368.0,2382.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSMOLOVER:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes.  I’ve had a, a large number of, of, of students over the years.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eRight now, one of my prized little possessions is Ilana Davidson, Charles’ daughter, who is an opera singer right now in Zurich, is a magnificent artist and a marvelous voice, whose voice I’ve worked with all of her years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2382.0,2404.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I always feel like Bill Gates, except financially.  When you’re working with vocal methodology, it’s like going into Microsoft 2.1, and now we’re at Microsoft almost 2000.  So where I was ten, 15 years ago with what I call vocal behavior training was like Microsoft 2.01.  And now I’m pushing to Microsoft 2000, vocal behavior 2000.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2404.0,2436.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You learn a lot.  And as long as you keep it open to further analysis and investigation, the chances of coming up with what it is we need for vocal survival….","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2436.0,2449.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVIDSON:\u003c/strong\u003e You’re a wonderful teacher.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eI want to ask you, can you back up a little bit?  Do you remember Where the Rainbow Ends and what that involved, in terms of relationships amongst people?  What you think would, something or…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2449.0,2478.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSMOLOVER:\u003c/strong\u003e In 1972, Belwin Mills published Edge of Freedom and did a recording.  And his music director there was John Sweeney.  Big, 6’5” Swede.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2478.0,2489.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And while I was doing Edge of Freedom, I started working on a piece for an interfaith ceremony celebrating Creation.  And after Edge of Freedom, John said in, at one of our meetings, “What are you doing now?”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2489.0,2509.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I said, “Well, I’m writing an interfaith service on Creation in which I’m taking text from each faith, or each culture, even.  The ‘Quality of mercy,’ of, of Shakespeare, or ‘30 spokes’ of Lao-Tsu.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2509.0,2525.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the title came from a black poet, Charles Rives.  I Called Where the Rainbow Ends, which I gave it the title to the piece.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2525.0,2536.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And Sweeney was fascinated with it, and they decided to publish it.  And so they published it.  And we did the premiere at, up in Buffalo, because it was a tri-part venture with the American Jewish Committee, Canisius College, representing the Catholic denomination, and the Council of Churches.  And we did it in a, Buffalo, at Canisius College.  And then the premiere was in New York at the St. John the Divine, the Cathedral of St. John the Divine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2536.0,2568.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSEROTA:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you want to tell us about your work with the Ben-Haim Friday night service?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2568.0,2582.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSMOLOVER:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes.  That was part of the Master’s Fellows Program.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAt that time, we, we asked whether he would write a Sabbath service.  And Henry Skirball got the union to commission him to do so.  And we did it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2582.0,2599.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSEROTA:\u003c/strong\u003e Did Kaplan conduct that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2599.0,2612.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  Abraham Kaplan conducted the orchestra.  He did it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  It’s about 17 instruments.  \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  Yes.  It’s a kind of complicated work.  It’s very difficult for congregations to do today, in a way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2612.0,2625.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Why?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  It’s not that easily accessible.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eI think congregations have unfortunately confused social with sacred.  They want music to be social, rather than sacred.  And the criteria by which synagogue music today is honored, I guess, is to the degree that you have congregational participation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2625.0,2651.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think it’s a very good thing to do.  We have always had congregational participation.  But what we’ve done in the past, we’ve had a good balance.  Every great hazzan always had, in the middle of one of his recitatives, something that the congregation could join him with and sing along.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2651.0,2667.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But today, sing-along has become the main menu.  And I feel it’s a big mistake.  We’ve lost the sense of the sacred.  And we’ve gained the sense of the social.  Which we also have in rock concerts and everywhere else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2667.0,2686.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSEROTA:\u003c/strong\u003e In your synagogue, in White Plains, what sort of repertoire did you present through the course of the years?  Whose music did you sing?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2686.0,2708.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSMOLOVER:\u003c/strong\u003e When I was active, we sang everything from Yossele Rosenblatt to Charles Davidson to Max Helfman to Sulzer to Lewandowski to Jassinowsky, to Janowski, to Binder.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2708.0,2727.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We always presented a representative repertoire of music for the synagogue.  But I did, I tried not to do it as a potpourri, but to keep the styles in consonant.  You know, so if I would do Charles Davidson’s Hasidic Sabbath, I would still have music that was in the genre.  I wouldn’t suddenly go to Paul Ben-Haim.  You know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2727.0,2753.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I once thought of an idea which I, never caught on with my colleagues of the American Conference of Cantors.  Which was to have a cycle of Sabbath services.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2753.0,2765.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The first service of the month should be devoted to the family, with children, their music, so that the families could join.  The second one might be a creative Sabbath.  That which challenged us on every level.  Theologically as well as musically.  And the third might be a traditional Sabbath, where we present the music of the traditional synagogue.  You know.  And the fourth we would leave open to the events of the congregation and to the holidays that we’re celebrating.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2765.0,2799.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, they don’t have to be necessarily in that routine.  But to vary them during the month so that we have a chance to explore the panorama of Jewish music for the synagogue.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2799.0,2817.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And my great joy is that I lived to enjoy what I feel was the golden age of synagogue music in America.  From, from the ‘20s, I guess, and the great hazzanim whom I experienced as a child all the way up until relatively lately.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2817.0,2837.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But then, this takeover of the folk — and I feel kind of guilty, with my folk rock.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, I was going to ask.  That’s exactly what I’m going to ask you.  You wrote that for NFTY.  You wrote it for — I mean…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  For camp experience.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  For camp experience.  And you wrote it for children, and you wrote it as an alternative experience.  And obviously, I think it has artistic qualities, or I wouldn’t be recording it.  Because I don’t particularly care for most of that type of thing, particularly rock.  But this, you know, obviously, it spoke to me, 25 years ago.  And it still does.  And it’s very tasteful.  But you didn’t intend that for, to…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  Supplant.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …supplant, to take over, to, to…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2837.0,2884.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  No.  No, no, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  You don’t take over — you add.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You add.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  You add.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2884.0,2891.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I would feel, for instance, like the V’shamru from Edge of Freedom could be done at any Friday night service.  Even the Candle Lighting, okay.  I wouldn’t want to do the Kaddish that I did from that as a Friday night service, particularly.  I think the L’khah Dodi could be done, just like Charles’ L’khah Dodi from The Hasidic Sabbath could be done at any Friday night service.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2891.0,2918.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"No.  Not a takeover, by any means.  But I think what has happened is there has been a takeover.  And the takeover has been to the denominator of the congregant at large, who may or may not be able to sing on tune at all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2918.0,2937.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I remember once when I was an early cantor at my temple.  And the board said, “Cantor, can’t we sing the things that we know?  You know, the traditional things that we know?”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tI said, “Of course, of course.  I’m going to go around the room and I want you each to whisper to me the Sh’ma that you know.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2937.0,2955.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, you would think everybody would go (sings) Sh’ma, Yisroel….  No, not at all.  Because 50 percent of them couldn’t sing on pitch.  You know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSo when you gear the service to the congregation, 50 percent of the congregation really doesn’t sing on pitch.  But that’s beside the point.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2955.0,2970.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I like the idea very much of the four, of a cycle.  The only thing is, you never actually were able to implement that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=2970.0,3002.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSMOLOVER:\u003c/strong\u003e It could be implemented, if the rabbis and the lay leadership were willing to do it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIt reminds me of a conversation I once had with Alex Schindler, when he was president of the Union.  And he called me upstairs and he said, “Ray, I’ve been traveling all over the country.  I’m very unhappy with the services.  What can the American Conference of Cantors do to lift the service and to improve things in the synagogue?”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3002.0,3029.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I said, “Very little, Alex.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eHe said, “Hey, hey.  You’re the cantor.  You know, you sing.  We can…”.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tI said, “No.  You’ve got to change what happens in the synagogue.  Music is part of what happens in the synagogue.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e“How do you change that, Ray?”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3029.0,3045.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"“Well, Alex, when I go into the Scarsdale library, I know what’s expected of me.  And it’s very simple — shut up.  Be quiet.  Let other people read.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tWhat do we expect from congregants when they come to the synagogue?  Do congregations, do congregants have an expectation?  Do they know what’s expected of them?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3045.0,3062.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yes, they have to pay dues.  But there’s another thing we could say when they join this temple.  “We expect you to do one thing — to have derekh eretz.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tAt every committee meeting, your children to the teachers, the teachers to the children.  Then you will find it inside of the synagogue.  You’ll find it in the, in the service itself.  Derekh eretz.  Which then leads to the sense of the sacred.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3062.0,3088.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Or worse.  Much worse.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3088.0,3101.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  Much worse.  Much worse.  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  I’m concerned that I see the cantor more as a song leader and the bar mitzvah tutor.  Rather than as a hazzan.  As a shaliach tzibur.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3101.0,3115.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think that’s a big mistake.  I understand the need to have the cantor involved with the children’s bar mitzvah.  To this day, when I officiate at a wedding, and the groom and maybe the bride comes up to me and say, “Oh, you remember you bar mitzvahed me?” it’s a joy.  Yes.  It’s important.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3115.0,3140.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But when our progenitors — when the Rosenblatts and the Roitmans and — sang, the thing that they did was they lifted our people out of the walls of the ghetto into the walls of the spiritual freedom.  And you don’t have that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3140.0,3154.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Once a year, I always try to put it to my worship committee.  “Well, we like to sing along, Cantor.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e“Yes.  And why is it you do not want to sing along the Kol Nidre?  None of you would sing along the Kol Nidre.  You would consider it a heritage.  Why don’t you sing the Kol Nidre?”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3154.0,3176.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSMOLOVER:\u003c/strong\u003e But why is it so special?  It’s because it contains — to me — the message that says this is what it feels like when I feel serious about being Jewish.  Not when I want to be entertained.  But when I feel serious about being Jewish.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3176.0,3202.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3202.0,3214.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  They could sing it, but they won’t.  Well…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  And the reason is that our people seem to sense that there is a spot that is different — the Kol Nidre.  Okay?  There’s a sense of the sacred here.  They can’t explain it.  It’s a mystery.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3214.0,3232.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVIDSON:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, Ray, you know, you and I have been talking for as long as I can remember about the differences between Reform, Reform worship and Conservative, as I know Conservative worship. I find it very interesting that we’re both, we were both involved with services that incorporated the, the popular style…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3232.0,3270.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  With, with your jazz service?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  …yeah.  Well, with it, the things that I have done and the things that you have done.  But I think what we both have done has been to, to feed upon the past.  And to imbue — at least in my case, I know personally — either tunes or nusaḥ hat'filla that are connected with our services in a more popular, a more popular way, popular style.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3270.0,3300.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I think what has happened now is that there is, there is nobody around as, as when you were growing up, when you were learning, from whom contemporary, some contemporary composers can, can draw upon or feed upon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3300.0,3318.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  I think there’s also one other thing, Charles.  I think there’s a great desire today, not necessarily just to get more conservative in the Reform movement.  Which is true.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tDAVIDSON:  True.  Absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Which is true.  But I think there’s been a mistake in the amount of value being placed upon participation.  Okay?  Meaning participation at any level.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3318.0,3344.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The things that you did, the things that I tried to do, it wasn’t that we wanted to make folk rock something that would get people involved.  No.  There’s creativity involved and non-routine — non-routine.  There’s nothing wrong with singing (Sings) Eytz Chayim.  Yes.  But every week?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3344.0,3369.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVIDSON:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  But all the time?  This is the only Eytz Chayim our kids should ever hear?  Or if they’re going to hear a difference, it’s going to be (Sings) Eytz Chayim, it is a tree of life that….  You know, what is the criteria?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3369.0,3383.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, I think the criteria has to be creativity.  Creativity.  And the level of invention, the level, level of sincerity, the, the aim.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3383.0,3396.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The aim is not participation.  The aim is transcendence.  Get beyond the group.  Okay?  And get to what I keep repeating, sensitizing the people to the sacred.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3396.0,3411.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVIDSON:\u003c/strong\u003e Fun.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3411.0,3423.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSMOLOVER:\u003c/strong\u003e Banal, you know.  And you say to yourself, the harm here is that it desensitizes one.  Just as when you, our kids are listening to real hard rock, and all of that.  They’re becoming desensitized.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3423.0,3437.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I’ll never forget when my son David once came in from high school choir — band practice and chorus practice.  He said, “Dad, you got to listen to this!  You got to listen to this!  It’s the best thing I’ve ever heard.  You’ve got to listen to it!”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3437.0,3449.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What was it?  The Hallelujah from, from one of the services.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eYou’ve got to expose them to good music.  How are they going to hear it?  Are they always going to equate, our young generations now, that the music of the synagogue is either something that the cantor does by himself, that only some oldies are interested in, okay?  Or is it going to be clap along music?  Okay?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3449.0,3474.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think this is a desensitizing.  And it’s a desensitizing of the spirit.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNo rabbi would permit a desensitizing of the intellect.  We are in charge of the spirit.  The feeling-ful part.  Rabbis are in charge of what we believe.  We are in charge of what we feel.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3474.0,3497.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And sometimes we run into a conflict between what we believe and what we feel.  Okay?  And I think it’s a mistake.  And we’ve got to keep the level of feeling to a high level.  And you can’t do that with just being a song leader.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3497.0,3514.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVIDSON:  “Desensitizing” is a good phrase.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Very good.  And I mean, would you say that it extends to desensitizing against what the words mean altogether?  I mean, if you look at people singing utchkey-putchkey, then smiling at each other, they — and I found this to be, it could be Israelis.  It doesn’t matter.  Suddenly, they don’t know Hebrew.  I mean, it’s as if it’s mumbo-jumbo.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3514.0,3535.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVIDSON:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And that is not a form of desensitization?  To…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Absolutely.  And I think before Hebrew became a vernacular that ordinary people could speak, not just the rabbi….  When I was kid, a couple of quotations in Hebrew — he was a chokhem.  I mean, ah, this is a scholar.  Now, our kids go to Israel, they come back, they can speak Hebrew.  To some degree.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3535.0,3560.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e I have a colleague in London who calls it “suspended judgment.”  I mean, once, he’s referring to the number of \u003cINAUDIBLE\u003e.  Because he’s also talking about — this is Victor Turnbull.  You know Victor?  Did I ever introduce you?  Danny Turnbull’s father.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eWhen he points out that if you go to certain synagogues, you will see people who in every other aspect of their musical concert-going activity. People who go to the symphony, go to opera, would not tolerate low standards there.  But from the minute they walk in that synagogue, or he calls it “suspended judgment.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3560.0,3610.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSMOLOVER:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, there’s one other thing that I would like to suggest to you which has been a contemporary concern of mine.  And that is, making the distinction between the aesthetic and the sacred.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3610.0,3624.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I have listened to a number of my colleagues who sing most beautifully.  Aesthetically, they sing absolutely beautifully.  I have no qualms with the quality of the sound and the phrasing.  But missing is a sense of the sacred.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3624.0,3650.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Getting back to Max Helfman, who, as a child, was an alto soloist in the shul and kind of renowned, as I understand.  As he got older, the voice didn’t function well.  But he could tear your heart out with a song.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3650.0,7208.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, there are many people who can do that.  But very often, the cantor has gotten onto the pulpit, after studying in the academies and so forth, with beautiful voices.  We have very fine voices in the cantorate.  And when I go, except on rare occasions, I could say okay, if I want to go to Carnegie Hall, or to SUNY Purchase in Westchester, and hear a lovely concert of the Vinta Raisa, that’s fine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3668.0,3698.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In shul, I want the minimum to be a nice quality of sound.  But that’s only the minimum.  I want you to move me.  I want you to take me out of where I am and where I am when I am listening to anything else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3698.0,3715.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Of course, I’m going to just play devil’s advocate here.  Don’t you also want that when you hear the Vinta Raisa?  Or a Beethoven string quartet?  Don’t you want, isn’t that…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3715.0,3730.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Isn’t part of the problem here the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  No.  But the same sensitivity.  For instance…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …confusion of our experience and entertainment?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  I don’t know the name of this baritone that I heard, but he’s a thalidomide child.  And he’s a marvelous baritone with a marvelous voice who’s singing a great deal now.  And I heard a Vinta Raisa one night.  And it was absolutely glorious.  Glorious.  And he brought to the Vinta Raisa the type of sensitivity that was most, most beautiful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3730.0,3765.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3765.0,3779.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  Unless you’re singing the Almach.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, I mean, you know, what I’m getting at is that part of the, while it’s true, the ideal is never realized.  That’s something else.  But in theory, if one goes to hear — well, I mean, if one went to hear Sirkin play the last three Beethoven sonatas, yes, I confess that it, most of the audience look upon it as a form of entertainment.  It’s something at you.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBut that notwithstanding, it really is a failure, unless it moves you and changes you in some spiritual way, in the same way — in a different way, in a different way — but in an analogous way.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd I remember one, you know, Hamarck Levere said, he came to me and he saw me from a distance and he came towards me and we were, he looked, he said, “Let’s not even talk about it.  It was such an incredible experience.  It’s not, let’s not talk about it.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3779.0,3825.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSMOLOVER:\u003c/strong\u003e It seems to me that, that maybe, as I talk to you about it, I’m clearer at finding a little bit more in myself.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tI just came back from Washington, where a young man who is a Librarian of Congress has written a little musical on the Tales of the Baal Shem Tov.  The, the melodies — his name is Arthur Levine.  The melodies are almost klezmer, almost Yiddish theater.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3825.0,3852.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But he himself is such a mensch, such a really humble, lovely human being, that these melodies are no longer Yiddish theater or klezmer.  They’ve been transformed, through him, to something that is honest and authentic — okay? — and tender.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3852.0,3872.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now.  I think the thing that we could maybe agree upon.  You cannot ever separate the music that a composer has written, then, from the composer himself as a human being.  You can hear him in his music.  Or her in her music.  You can hear the quality of the sacred in the hazzan, or not hear it, unless it is there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3872.0,3902.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Unless the hazzan has a sense of the sacred, how is the hazzan going to convey the sense of the sacred?  Not the technical dreidls, or the embellishments, or the modalities.  Okay?  Nor even the lovely vocal quality or even the phrasing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3902.0,3919.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The hazzan has to be a sacred person.  And that doesn’t mean an observer.  Okay?  Of, of ritual.  But a sacred human being.  With — then, you’ll hear it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3919.0,3932.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We have a female cantor, Helene Reps, at my temple, whom I’m proud of saying I inspired to become a cantor when she was 40.  Well, Helene Reps, like Marian Anderson, cannot open her mouth unless it’s a sacred sound.  She’s a sacred human being.  She has the sensitivity towards people — a derekh eretz.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3932.0,3957.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What bothered me most when I attended a couple of practicums at the Hebrew Union College School of Sacred Music was, instead of saying to the young student, Michael, “You know, I think this phrase requires” — “Wow, that was horrible!”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3957.0,3979.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That’s derekh eretz?  You’re going to foster sacredness?  Unless it is fostered in your training, in your upbringing, it’s not going to come through in your music.  \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: You were the Executive Vice President of the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  Say that again?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Well, you mentioned before that you were the Executive Vice President of the American Conference of Cantors.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3979.0,3997.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  Could you tell us something about the origin of the organization?  Because Neil mentioned a few seconds before that there was an organization of Reform cantors.  I don’t know if he was referring to the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, there were more than one.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  …Modern Cantors Association…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  …or the American Board of Cantor Ministers.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  All of those.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=3997.0,4013.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  All of those…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  After all, the fact is, you know, just briefly, that in, on the tenth anniversary of Sulzer’s Yahrzeit — let’s see.  It was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  1904.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It was 1890.  1904.  So that wasn’t the tenth anniversary of his death.  That was the hundredth anniversary of his birth.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Hundredth anniversary of his birth.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  There was a meeting here in New York.  And I found minutes of the meeting, and I found this in what is now Central Synagogue, which had a Hebrew name, by the Cantorial Association.  So…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4013.0,4043.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  But recently, I found out that that was a group of Reform cantors, which could not have existed in…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …in the Deep South, or in the West, or in the Midwest.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  I remember attending a meeting with Joe Posner, who was treasurer at that organization at one time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4043.0,4056.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVIDSON:  Or Walter Davidson was, also.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Walter Davidson.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, there’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  But this was before.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  There’s a lot of overlap here.  We don’t know.  There’s some that…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  There’s overlap.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tLEVIN:  …from different organizations.  But we’re talking now about something that it’s — what? — that’s self-contained.  It began as its own — the ACC.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4056.0,4069.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSMOLOVER:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.  The way it began was 50 years ago, we just celebrated the 50th year of the School of Sacred Music.  For the first ten years, it was really run out of the school.  Well, listen — we only had five, six students a year.  Stuff of that nature.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4069.0,4083.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"At about 1967 — somewhere like that — I joined, I know I joined in ’60 or ’61.  And at that time, we were still having this overlapping of the other organizations.  Then they formed the American Conference of Certified Cantors.  Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4083.0,4106.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSEROTA:\u003c/strong\u003e But weren’t there people that were certified cantors that were not graduates of the school that applied for certification?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4106.0,4119.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  I was one of them.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Yes.  I became a cantor in ’48, just when the school was beginning.  We didn’t even know about it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tI was a cantor for ten years.  Then I was invited to go down and have a certification examination to join.  And which I did.  And Paul Steinberg and Eric Werner and Walter Davidson and a few others were on the board, and they put me through a grilling thing.  And then I became a member of the Conference.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4119.0,4147.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And in ’67, they decided to drop the name.  I’m not sure exact year.  Of the American Conference of Certified, they dropped Certified.  American Conference of Cantors.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4147.0,4158.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Paul Steinberg, who was the dean of the school, was actually serving as placement chairman, and things of that nature.  And they decided, he decided, okay.  Go on your own.  Okay?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4158.0,4171.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSEROTA:\u003c/strong\u003e You mentioned, when we were discussing before the tape was running, that you had recorded some things with Helfman in the early days of your career.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4171.0,4194.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSMOLOVER:\u003c/strong\u003e No.  I, I only re, in The Sound of the Shofar, I re, I recorded his Sh’ma Koleinu.  I recorded one or two of his other pieces.  But I never recorded with Max.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4194.0,4205.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVIDSON:  But I heard, I heard, I heard you sing.  I heard you sing the Palmach Song.  And I heard the soprano you talked about sing…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4205.0,4211.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  Edith Gordon?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  No, no, no.  This was the early Brandeis group.  That first one.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  That toured.  So I, I heard that someplace.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  You might be right.  I, I recall singing the Palmach.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4211.0,4222.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVIDSON:  Yeah.  I — very well.  D-minor.  And not just with your desk camp.  (Sings some of it)  I remember it very well.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Can you tell us about Hasidic Gems?\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  (Hums some of it)  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Can you tell us about Hasidic Gems, for Tikvah Records?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4222.0,4236.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSMOLOVER:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes.  Hasidic Gems.  That’s the one that — yes.  I did a group of very wonderful songs which were arranged.  Maurice Goldman arranged A Dudele.  Marvelous arrangement.  And then I do on that, after that…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4236.0,4257.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVIDSON:  Strassberg, you did Strassberg on that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  I did Strassberg, Hashkiveinu Alecha.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  Hashkiveinu.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:   Adir Mi Yivney ha’Galil in a Hasidic vein by Kossikov.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4257.0,4269.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/208","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVIDSON:  Kossikov.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  I did the Shira ha-Maalot of Lazar Weiner.  And his Niggun.  Lazar Weiner’s Niggun.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tDAVIDSON:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  And then a bimbom by Kossikov again.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON: Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Those were the six numbers on that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4269.0,4283.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/209","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVIDSON:  Oyfen Vage.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  They’re very good.  Charles did the orchestration and the conducting.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tDAVIDSON:  They’re good.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  And I listened to them recently, having not heard them for 30 years.  And I was not embarrassed at all.  I was kind of proud of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4283.0,4296.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/210","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I sent Charles a copy of the tape.  I said, “Do you remember this?”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  I remember it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  How big is the ensemble?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  It was a small group.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  It was just a solo.  Oh, you mean the instrumental ensemble?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, the \u003cINAUDIBLE\u003e?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  I don’t remember.  Do you, Charles?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eINTERVIEWER 3:  I think Charles has the scores, probably.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  Doesn’t.  That was…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4296.0,4313.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/211","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  It’s a wonderful piece.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  …Les.  It was, it was — remember who was paying for this.  It was Les.  So a small group.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  It was a company that used to have decapitated heads as the illustrations.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eTell us about the Yiddish Duets.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4313.0,4329.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/212","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  Yiddish Duets were also, these are the times when Alan Jacobs was doing these Tikvah ones.  That followed my Sound of the Shofar, which I think is a darn good record.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tEve Kreller conducted — no, she played on that.  Who conducted?  Did you conduct The Sound of the Shofar?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  I may have.  I may have.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4329.0,4342.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/213","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DAVIDSON:  Eve played, Eve played the organ.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Eve played the organ.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  Because you did Wohlberg’s, within that…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  Habayn…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  No — one of those.  One of his big pieces.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  Yes.  And that was too long for me to orchestrate, so I remember Eve…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  Right.  I remember because it had a high C-sharp here…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  Right.  I remember it.  I put it in there.  I remember it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  A tenor will always remember that.  But that was a wonderful record.  And that was narrated by Joseph Wiseman.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  The Sound of the Shofar?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4342.0,4367.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/214","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  The Sound of the Shofar.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  And then the Duets were a bunch of songs, mostly, I think, two-part things from the Yiddish songs that Helfman had arranged.  I did that with Edith Gordon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4367.0,4383.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/215","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then I did this one on Shulamit with — what was her name?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Freydele Lifshitz.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  Right.  Goldfaden pieces.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Whose idea was it to record these Goldfaden songs?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Tikvah’s.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSEROTA:  And how did they team you up with Freydele Lifschitz?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  I think she may have done something else for him.  I didn’t know her.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  All right.  And then you recorded for Mr. Karp, for Famous Records, The Hasidic Sabbath, by Charles Davidson.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4383.0,4408.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/216","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  Right.  That’s right.  That was a wonderful record.  I still have some copies of that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tLEVIN:  That’s with organ?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  Yes.  We had some problems with the organ, I remember.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  Organ, choir.  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  (Sings some of it)\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4408.0,4428.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/217","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  No, that’s the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  Yeah, that’s us.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Yeah, yeah.  That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Where was that recorded?  A studio, or in the temple?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  Studio.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  It was a studio.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Studio.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Indopro Studios?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4428.0,4434.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/218","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SMOLOVER:  They were all done at studios.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  Do you remember the problem I had with — we had — with the organist?  There was a, a recent émigré from Lithuania.  A woman.  And, and we found out, I found out immediately she couldn’t play.  She couldn’t play it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSMOLOVER:  Oh, my.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON:  We had to go scramble.  And you sent me to a, a, a wonderful pianist-organist here on the same day that we recorded, so it wasn’t in a studio.  It was with a small organ.  It was very nice.  It was your choir from the temple.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER:  Uh-huh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4434.0,4460.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/219","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tDAVIDSON: Ray, Ray’s a wonderful influence.  And a wonderful thinker.  He’s a philosopher.  And I think the things you’ve said today about the music, particularly about the, the direction we’re going now, perhaps, should be taken seriously.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4460.0,4481.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/220","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSMOLOVER:\u003c/strong\u003e I think it’s going to change.  I think this — the synagogue itself has to change.  I have this enormous respect — and I don’t know what other words to use — this great respect for what our people did over 2,000 years to survive.  I think what they accomplished was miraculous.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4481.0,4504.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/221","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"However, there’s no more ghettos.  There’s just Israel and America, really.  And what we will need to survive in the future, I think, is different than what we needed to survive in the past.  Theologically.  Musically.  Spiritually, as to what it is we really experience in the synagogue.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tDoes that mean we give up everything?  Oh, no.  Not at all.  Not at all.  But we’ve got to do, for the next thousand years, what our ancestors did for the last 2,000 years in the Diaspora.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4504.0,4539.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929/transcript/25000/annotation/222","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We’re not doing that yet.  We’re, we’re living on the past.  This great past.  But we’re not contributing anything.  I don’t know how much we have created that compares to the creation of Hasidism by the Ba’al Shem Tov or Reform Judaism, by Wise. Are we creating anything that’s comparable, that’s going to make as big a difference in the next thousand years as they made in the past? I don’t think so. But, as cantors, again I say, we’re in charge of the feelings of the spirit and we can’t give that up.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDAVIDSON: That’s good. Thank you Ray. You really…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSMOLOVER: It’s my joy. Thank you very much.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cEND OF TAPE 3\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cEND OF INTERVIEW\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40264/file/111929#t=4539.0,4593.664"}]}]}]}