{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/7p8tb0z897/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Schonthal, Ruth"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Preferred Citation"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eSchonthal, Ruth. 1998. Interview by Neil W. Levin. Milken Archive Oral History Project. 31 March.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Milken Family Foundation"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e© Milken Family Foundation. Unauthorized use is prohibited. For inquiries, please contact info@milkenarchive.org.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Schonthal, Ruth (Composer)","Levin, Neil W. (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1998-03-31 (recorded)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["New York, NY (Place of Recording)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (Primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eComposer Ruth Schonthal discusses her Jewish-related compositions and reflects on some pivotal life experiences, including growing up in Nazi Germany, life in Sweden and Mexico, settling in the U.S., and studies at Yale with Paul Hindemith.\u003c/p\u003e (general)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["Beta SP"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Jews--Music (Topical Term)","Classical Music (Topical Term)","Oral Histories (genre/form)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Keyword"]},"value":{"en":["Aldo Parisot, Arabic music, contemporary composition, Federico Garcia-Lorca, Holocaust,Israel, Jewish liturgical music, Jewish music, Kristallnacht, Mexico, New York University, opera, Paul Hindemith, prepared piano, Rainer Maria Rilke, Stern Conservatory, Walt Whitman, Yale University, Yiddish"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eComposer Ruth Schonthal discusses her Jewish-related compositions and reflects on some pivotal life experiences, including growing up in Nazi Germany, life in Sweden and Mexico, settling in the U.S., and studies at Yale with Paul Hindemith.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u0026copy; Milken Family Foundation. Unauthorized use is prohibited. For inquiries, please contact info@milkenarchive.org.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/116/790/small/Ruth2.jpg?1623008390","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - 16103_Ruth_Schonthal_APR.mp4"]},"duration":1527.63733,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/116/790/small/Ruth2.jpg?1623008390","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-milken.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/116/790/original/16103_Ruth_Schonthal_APR.mp4?1622910273","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":1527.63733,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Schonthal_Ruth_Final [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Ms. Schonthal, I want to welcome you to this little discussion about some of your music that we will be including in the Milken Archive of American Jewish Music.  You gave us one piece I’ve heard, I think, if I recall, it is a piece for electronic tape.  Is there a such a piece?  No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=16.0,40.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SCHONTHAL:  No.  It is for prepared piano…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Prepared piano.  That’s it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  …flute and tape.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That’s what I mean.  Tape.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Tape.  But not — yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  When I say electronic tape…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  That’s true, oh, so yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …I mean, that’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  You know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  For prepared piano, flute and electronic tape.  And this piece is called?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=40.0,55.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SCHONTHAL:  A Bird Over Jerusalem.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  A Bird Over Jerusalem.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Hmmm-mmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  How did that piece come into being, in your mind, first, before it came out?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Well, I’m socially, politically in all these things very involved, you know.  I have a written a lot of music that sort of takes a stand upon things that are very much our concerns.  And as I’m based in Israel, you know.  There are religious and territorial interests that clash and make everybody unhappy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=55.0,94.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That’s really what the piece is about.  It incorporates two important Jewish songs, including the Hatikvah at the end. And the bird is supposed to be like flying over and not quite understand why people who believe in the same God can be so at odds and at war.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=94.0,118.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So it uses — actually, there is even a, a smattering of a Christian chorale in there.  There is Arab musics.  Only the wailing kind.  And these Jewish songs.  And some, sometimes they overlap, you see.  So it’s, it’s kind of a comment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=118.0,139.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Has this piece been performed?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Oh, quite a bit, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Quite a bit?  Yes?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Quite a bit.  Yes.  Quite a bit.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But it hasn’t been recorded yet?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  No.  I, I hope it will be so.  I, I would very much like it to…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  …be recorded.  But I have quite a number of other pieces that also have involvement with this particular theme, in a different way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=139.0,159.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"For instance, I think the first piece I, I wrote a Jewish song in Mexico to my father’s word, which has been published.  But it’s lying around.  I never have time to, you know, distribute things.  It’s, it’s like, how can you invent something or to produce it or with something new and also be active in selling it?  That’s, that’s sort of a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  …you know, a conflict.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Of course.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Yeah.  It’s a conflict, you see.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=159.0,185.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  This song is in what language?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  It’s in, in Jewish.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yiddish?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Yiddish.  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSCHONTHAL:  And then I have composed a piece which is the first time that I used sort of a prepared piano.  But it is not like John Cage’s.  It’s called Reverberations — Nacht Klinge.  Which sort of tries to come to grips with how a civilized people like the Germans, with all the wonderful cultural background that they have, could commit the atrocities that they did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=185.0,223.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So in this song, there are more distortions of German folk songs, of Bach and so on.  And that was the first time that I experimented around with changing the sound of the piano.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=223.0,237.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Because I think when one deals with subject matters that have an — you know, a real agenda, where you really go beyond the everyday kind of pains, that the piano wouldn’t do.  And then I started experimenting around with placing objects on the strings that makes them reverberate, like metal and wood and glass and plastic and so on.  And they create their own sounds and reverberations.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=237.0,267.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  In these pieces for prepared piano, you are talking about preparation with respect to timbre.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Are there any preparations with respect to pitch alteration?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  It does alter the pitch somewhat.  By doing that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  By doing that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  By doing that, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=267.0,284.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  But you don’t, do you also do anything to deliberately, in terms of retuning the piano?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  No, I don’t.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  But in the flute piece, there are quarter tones, too, of course.  And then I have done a piece, Variations for Guitar, on a Jewish liturgical theme.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=284.0,305.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  This is just for one guitar?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Hmmm-mmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Hmmm-mmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  A solo guitar?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  For electric, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, for electric guitar.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Electric, electric and also acoustic.  I have made them for both.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And what is that on?  What’s, you said variations on a theme?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=305.0,320.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SCHONTHAL:  On a Jewish liturgical theme.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Which theme?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  You see, now with lyrics — never ask me about text.  I, I have a great weakness for that, so I don’t remember text.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=320.0,332.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then, the, last year and this year I wrote a string quartet, Holocaust in Memoriam, which is very new.  And I found — you see, when you deal with subjects matters of this kind, which are so superhuman — you know, disturbing — that you have to, it’s a great danger to convert them into art.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=332.0,362.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I always wanted to stay away from this, the Holocaust.  Because of, I didn’t want to trivialize it.  You know, by some, some people use it and they make decorative material out of it or something.  Or, or cheap stuff like — and I didn’t want to do that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=362.0,378.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But one day, all of a sudden, it came to me how to do this.  And I started individualizing, so that the quartet — each one is a different person experience, experiencing that last moment — that horror, you know, praying to God, please.  And nothing.  You know, this is a, a moment it captures.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=378.0,402.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And even so, you see, the challenge here is when you convert something into art that really has something to, an agenda like that, ultimately, it still must be art.  It must still be on its own.  That is the difficulty.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=402.0,417.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That’s why pieces that you do take so much longer, until you have the way that everything falls into place.  You see what I mean?  That it doesn’t become posterish, or something.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Right.  I mean, it doesn’t, well, I mean, that it’s not functional only.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  It, that’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That it’s not Gebrauchsmusik","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=417.0,436.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SCHONTHAL:  It has to be music, you see.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I’m sure that you’ve been asked this many times.  People talk continually about the poet — I can’t remember his name — who said that, you know, one should not write anything about the Holocaust.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=436.0,455.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SCHONTHAL:  I felt, I said it myself.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Who is the poet I’m think, the philosopher?  A contemporary…  Admonition to…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Wiesel?  Was it Wiesel?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  No, it wasn’t Wiesel.  No, it wasn’t.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The opposite of…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  The opposite, yeah.  He did it all the time, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=455.0,468.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  I’m talking about — it will come to me in a minute, because it appeared in a….  One should not make, create any art about it.  No, Wiesel said something like that, but he didn’t…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …follow his own.\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=468.0,481.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Because he said once, you know, with reference to Auschwitz, you shouldn’t build any memorial.  It should just be left there fenced around.  And whatever happens, that’s the memorial for everybody.  It sounds clever to say it, but in, you know, it sounds, no.  It’ll come to me in a minute.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=481.0,494.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But that, you know, any kind of art connected to the Holocaust was, was already…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  But I said it myself, ‘till, when, finally I had to do it, you know.  That was all.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, do you know Gershon Kingsley?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, he had the piece that somebody just from last November, and somebody said the same thing and criticized it.  In fact, he wouldn’t even stand up.  It got a standing ovation for the piece.  And then he quoted that — it’ll come to me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=494.0,519.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But in any case, your, you’ve written mostly instrumental, except you’ve mentioned things from…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Oh, I says, I was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …Yiddish songs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  I’m, yeah.  You mean, for, in Jewish…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  In Judaic matters.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  …context.  In Judaic matters.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Instrumental music.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=519.0,537.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SCHONTHAL:  Instrumental?  Well, except that song.  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Yes, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What’s the text of that song?  Do you recall?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  My father’s text.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, his own poem.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Yeah.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And just a solo — one song?  Not a cycle…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  That’s it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …or not, nothing?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  No, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Oh, there’s one thing that I forgot to mention.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=537.0,552.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Two years ago, I was sort of commissioned to write a piece about the, the, the wall in Berlin — the coming down of the wall.  Well, I inserted one section where I used the autobiographical remembrance of when I was a little girl in Berlin and remembered how I was on the balcony.  I was about — that was in ’32, it must have — I am born in ’24.  So I must have been eight years old.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=552.0,585.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the, we saw the Nazis and the SS marching in.  And I remember that horrible feeling of oppressiveness.  The fear.  And heard the Horst Wessel Lied.  And I set that scene to music within that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=585.0,606.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  So that people will know, what was the Horst Wessel Lied?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  That has the wonderful words, “And the blood of the Jews should spill from the knives.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And this was…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=606.0,620.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SCHONTHAL:  And I used that song and made a gruesome parody of it.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  This song was almost an anthem of the Nazi party, wasn’t it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  It, everybody — every SA, SS — sang it.  And very often, when we were on a picnic and we heard that from afar, we had to pack our picnic baskets and run.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=620.0,640.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And the origin of the song actually is in German folklore, I believe.  It’s not…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Yeah, it can be.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …it didn’t begin with the Nazis.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  They, they, they changed, changed texts and the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  They changed the texts from one to the other.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  …so. Well, they did this often.  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=640.0,645.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Wasn’t there some conductor who sang it…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  I, I, I can’t tell you.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  A famous conductor who sang the Horst Wessel song or something?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Really?  It might have been Furtwängler.  You know, but I don’t know this.  I don’t know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=645.0,662.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Look — I was a child in Berlin, you know, when I, I left in ’38.  So, but it…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Do you remember, or your Jewish involvement, your family’s Jewish involvement…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Ach, I remember everything.  I have…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Did they go to a particular synagogue in Berlin?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=662.0,678.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SCHONTHAL:  On Oranienburger Strasse is the one, I just saw it some years ago.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  It’s, they’re trying to build it up again.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, only the façade.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  They’re not going to rebuild the inside.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Because nobody would use it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Uh-huh.  Uh-huh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So that was your, that was your…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=678.0,692.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSCHONTHAL:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, yeah, I went to school in Berlin.  And I, I went to the Stern Conservatory.  I was the youngest student there.  I was admitted at five.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBut in ’36, I was not allowed to go there anymore, because I was Jewish.  So I was taken out of schools and out of — my musical career was totally, education was totally interrupted, disrupted, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=692.0,716.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Your family left before or after Kristallnacht?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Three months be, two, three, two-and-a-half months before Kristallnacht.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And you came to the United States?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  No, no.  Not at all.  A long time.  It took a long time.  First we went to Stockholm.  And we left the apartment with a mate.  So that — and just took the suitcases, so that they thought we were just going on summer vacation, to Stockholm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=716.0,745.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I was in Stockholm three years, went to the Kumlinger Academy.  And I was the only foreigner.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd then we went, then we were surrounded by, Scandinavia was surrounded by the Nazis and the Russians in Finland, Norway, Denmark.  So we couldn’t wait.  And three months before I would have graduated, we left for Mexico.  Because the American visa would have taken too long.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=745.0,774.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So we arrived in Mexico.  And that was a very, sort of great crisis for me.  Because, you know, my, I didn’t know what was going to happen with, with my music and what was going to happen with our life.  And my poor brother, who was two years younger, really drifted and had an absolutely tragic life because of this whole constant upheaval.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=774.0,800.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So we’re there in Mexico.  And there got a lot of scholarships and prizes and a lot of concerts.  I premiered my own piano concerto there.  Also was married and divorced and had a child.  And my brother got schizophrenia, and all kinds of terrible things happened.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=800.0,823.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e And that’s how you came to the United States?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=823.0,840.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSCHONTHAL:\u003c/strong\u003e That’s how I came.  In, in ’46.  And I, I graduated from Yale then.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd then I played in nightclubs for a while, to make a living.  And gradually built up a teaching, you know, practice.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=840.0,860.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  You graduated from Yale in composition?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  In composition, yes.  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Who were some of the other teachers along the way?  Anyone else other than Hindemith?  Or was it just mainly Hindemith?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Well, Hindemith was the most famous.  Kirkpatrick maybe and Aldo Parisot, who is still there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  That’s, they were the stars of…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=860.0,880.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And then you have been in various universities.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Yes, yes.  But for many times I, I did a lot of piano teaching.  Because that’s a good living, and I’m pretty good at it.  You know, it’s, that allows you to, a little bit, to use your time…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And you’re at NYU now?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=880.0,895.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SCHONTHAL:  I’m at, I’m at NYU, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Do you have some good students?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Oh, yes.  Oh, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yes?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Oh, yes I do.  Definitely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  In composition?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  There’s a lot of talent.  On a certain level, there is a lot of talent.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Have you ever thought about Judaic-related works of a religious nature, or…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=895.0,916.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SCHONTHAL:  Oh, I would love to do it.  I would love to do it.  But you see, one thing, my life is so involved.  I’m just one person.  I have to make a living.  And there has been a lot of family sickness and all kinds of obstacles.  So that it doesn’t allow me to, to search for things.  I take the branch that is nearest me, you know what I mean?  I don’t go out and say, this is the tree I want to go to.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  In other words, you would have to be commissioned.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=916.0,945.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SCHONTHAL:  I would have to commission.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Is what I hear you saying.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  To write a piece for the synagogue.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  That’s right.  But I would love to do it.  I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Or more Yiddish songs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  I love, I love religious music.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Even other vocal music.  It doesn’t have to be religious.  I mean, you see…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=945.0,960.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SCHONTHAL:  I have written a little…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You wrote one Yiddish song that it would be nice to have.  Of course, you have the music for that available?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Yes, I do.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I would like to hear it, and maybe we’ll record it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I’d like to…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  It’s a nice, actually…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …I have all these things…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  This night, all of a sudden, of it, because I knew I was going to talk to you, all of a sudden, I remembered it.  But I hadn’t thought about it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s, some people want to talk about right away…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Yeah?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=960.0,979.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  A lot of these things interest us.  But I think the only piece that Sam Adler gave us was The Bird Flew…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …Over Jerusalem.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Yeah, well, you know I didn’t…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  A Bird Over Jerusalem.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  A Bird Over Jerusalem.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He didn’t give us any other pieces, did he?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  No.  No, that’s the only one I sent him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=979.0,994.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e And tell me — in general, in the piece that’s not for prepared piano, not for electronic tape — let’s take, for example, the string quartet.  Or in general, in your music.  Not just Judaically related.  How would you characterize your approach, musically?  I mean, in terms of structure, pitch organization and in terms of harmonic language and all these things?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=994.0,1018.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSCHONTHAL:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I’ll tell you what.  I like to organize what comes into my head.  Not, not necessarily the other way around.  There is too much of that.  I have no problem coming — music is in me all the time, okay?  And always has been, since beginning of time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1018.0,1042.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In other words, it doesn’t leave me alone.  I had to learn to listen to people speak.  It took me a long time to listen.  Because I am always involved in what goes on, you see.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1042.0,1056.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I, however, can, can do these things any way I want to.  I can also say now I want to do this, now I have to do this, or correct or do something out of any notes, okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1056.0,1070.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now you asked me about my organization, about my style, I believe.  It’s my aesthetic.  I am rather ample in that.  I adjust it very much to what I want to say and to whom I have in mind to communicate.  If I write a piano concerto, it will be more accessible than when I write maybe something that’s more meant, you know, for the music connoisseur.  When I write songs, the poetry totally influences how I write the song, because I adjust it to what the poet has to say.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1070.0,1116.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And since I am versatile in my own tastes, when I write a Garcia-Lorca, it will have the Spanish in it.  And after all I did live five, five years in Mexico.  So that came natural.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1116.0,1130.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When I write Rainer Maria Rilke, it would be different, right?  Or Walt Whitman.  Or English.  See, this all makes a difference, you see? Or the language in which you write is very — right now, I, I wrote my third opera, which will be performed in two months here in New York.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1130.0,1150.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  What the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  It’s called Jocasta.  It’s the Oedipus legend, from her point of view.  It’s a big piece.  So that’s where I am very involved now. You, you ask me that, that’s, there’s not all, all that much time.  And so that adjusts itself, you see?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1150.0,1170.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Would you consider yourself or your music tonal?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Oh, yes.  But it’s an expanded tonality.  It’s very, I, I need tonality so that you feel at home someplace.  It’s important to me.  But it uses all notes.  In other words.  You know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s pantonal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1170.0,1190.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSCHONTHAL:\u003c/strong\u003e It’s, it’s — to some extent.  It, it, it chromaticizes the tonality.  It also is bi-tonal, in many ways.  And it uses some of the basic idea of Hindemith, of the staggered dissonance and consonance as to use dissonance as tension and consonance as release.  But in my own way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1190.0,1250.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e In Hindemith’s classes?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1215.0,1245.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SCHONTHAL:  You see, it’s — oh, absolute.  Like that…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But with music, I thought you couldn’t explain every note.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Oh, absolutely you can.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He could?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Oh, yes.  Oh, yes.  He certainly could.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Even in the — I’m not talking about anything 12-tone.  That’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Early — no, he never used 12-tone.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1245.0,1259.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSCHONTHAL:\u003c/strong\u003e He hated it.  The, the, before he started teaching, that might be a different story.  That was kind of wild.  Actually, I like it better.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tBut once he started teaching, he had to follow his own aesthetic rules, you see.  But…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1259.0,1275.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Do you know Ralph Shapey?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Yes, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Ralph Shapey once asked somebody what a certain pitch was doing in a certain spot.  I was there.  I saw it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He said, “Well, I like the sound of that cluster.”  And he jumped up on the table and he said, “Why the hell do I care what you like?”  He says, “I never want a student to tell me what he likes.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1275.0,1301.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSCHONTHAL:\u003c/strong\u003e He was very much like — every note has to be explained.  But I’ll tell you what — and we also, he made us also try each note first to see which — as a bass line, for instance.  What would it do?  Would this work in conjunction?  Does it make a good line?  What would happen if you do this?  And then try it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1301.0,1325.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But that did something to your ear, because you really do know every note, what it’s going to sound like, you see.  So that part of it, like, I liked very much.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tIn other words, then the rest I discarded and did my own way.  The only thing — it helped my ears so much, you see?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1325.0,1343.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And that of course applies to the string quartet.  It applies to all of this, this general approach that you have.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Yes.  Yes, it does.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And the electronic, the Bird Over Jerusalem, of course, has the added element of something pre-prepared in the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …form of the electronic…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …of the tape.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1343.0,1362.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Which you, you did in, where did you do that?  In what studio?  Here in New York?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  In, at NYU I had it done.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Does that tape make use of synthesis?  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  No, it’s real.  It’s a real Arab singer excerpted where it, where it really has that wailing Arab sound.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1362.0,1379.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Ah.  That’s important to hear.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  So, you see…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The tape has…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  That’s what the tape is of.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I see.  It’s not synthesized.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  It’s not.  That’s why….  No, that’s why I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You objected to the term.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  That’s I you objected to the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  When I said, “electronic.”  Yeah, I mean…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  But you mean something totally different, right?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …technically, it’s a still an electronic tape.  But you meant synthesized.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  No.  This is, is, is really copied from a Arab tape.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And do you…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1379.0,1399.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SCHONTHAL:  And excerpted.  The particular spots that I wanted that pain for — not that joy — that pain, that wailing.  That’s what it is.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Arabic wailing.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Arabic wailing.  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Do you have Jewish wailing in there?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  I certainly do.  A lot of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1399.0,1413.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And the tape, in the tape do you manipulate…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …these pitches…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  I don’t do anything.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …or stretch — no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  No.  It doesn’t need it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s just…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  It doesn’t need it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I see.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  But it can be done without it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, Sam told me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1413.0,1487.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SCHONTHAL:  It can be done without it.  And it, I have, now it’s going to be done in Pennsylvania, and the flutist is going to do it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, but I wouldn’t do it without it.  It’s too interesting a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  It’s very, it’s, it’s, it’s, it, it adds a dimension.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1427.0,1440.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Where is the, but the piano, flute and the electronic tape…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  And, and the tape, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So the tape, it’s only in Arabic.  There’s no Hebrew in this?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Well, it’s a Hebrew song, so there…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The melodies.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  …you know, the Hatikvah, the melodies, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The melodies.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Yes, yes, yes, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s obvious that the….  It’s a very interesting, sounds like a very interesting piece.  And I’m looking forward to…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1440.0,1460.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SCHONTHAL:  I really wish it would be recorded.  Because I tell you, every time it’s performed, I mean, it has a tremendous impact.  And I would like it very much. It’s just that it’s impossible for me to, you know, go out.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  How long is it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1460.0,1476.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SCHONTHAL:  It’s about, I believe it’s about 14 minutes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Is there anything else that you would like to tell me or tell us about your music in relation to Judaic experience in America, or we covered most of it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1476.0,1495.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SCHONTHAL:  Well, I think we have covered that aspect of it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eYou see, I’m very much a universalist.  In other words, you know, there’s so many influences in my life and so many interests.  So that as far as that part of it is concerned, I think we have covered it quite well, you know.  You did very well.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Thank you very much.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1495.0,1516.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790/transcript/43452/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Thank you very much.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSCHONTHAL:  Okay, thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43697/file/116790#t=1516.0,1527.63733"}]}]}]}