{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/804xg9fr9p/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Benya, Mascha (2 of 3)"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","metadata":[],"provider":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/112/010/small/Benya2.jpg?1621866448","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - L1993-94_Mascha_Benya_Shoot1.mp4"]},"duration":8275.54133,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/112/010/small/Benya2.jpg?1621866448","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-milken.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/112/010/original/L1993-94_Mascha_Benya_Shoot1.mp4?1619863681","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":8275.54133,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Mascha Benya 2 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Mascha, you knew Lazar Weiner probably better than — certainly better than any of us. But…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I, I knew him, and I had the privilege of working with him. He accompanied me on many occasions. And I am very happy to say that I learned a lot from him. He was a very strict taskmaster. And if he didn’t like something, he told you so. And he was very critical. He was a disciplinarian; he was a purist. Sometimes, he was very stubborn and I didn’t quite agree with certain things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=16.0,57.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Like what?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No. Like…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: No, serious.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …in, in the, in the song, for instance, one of his first in the first book that he published, there is a song, Yiddish — by Y. Y. Segal — Mein Golden Abrunnen. And I found two inaccuracies in two of the words. Fur dir shlitz.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Should I remember which ones?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Why not? If you can remember.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=57.0,82.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBENYA:\u003c/strong\u003e Fur dir et a Baal Shem, the Mezeritcher Maggid. He’s known as Mezeritcher Maggid. And in that music, he’s called Mezeritse. Everybody knows it’s Mezeritch. And I tried to tell it to him and he didn’t accept it. Then, the Maggid ha-Chodosh, and he wrote “ha-Choidish.” I have, I happen to have a volume of Y. Y. Segal’s poems. And I looked it up. And I told him so that I was right, but he never accepted it. I remember, Mary Feinsinger was in his master class at the Y, and she tried to tell it to him in my name. He never accepted it. But this was a minor fault.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=82.0,129.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: What about, let’s say, in quotation marks, philosophical differences? I mean, in terms of Yiddish music. Views on taste, or on…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Well, I don’t know. That — I’m not a musicologist. And I wouldn’t be…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Between the two of you, I mean, he had certain…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …be a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …he had certain views. You have certain views.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=129.0,151.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBENYA:\u003c/strong\u003e I wouldn’t, I, I didn’t dare even think about it or to question his views. In some of the songs — he told me that he based everything on nusaḥ niggun. Every composition was based, basically, on, on the nusaḥ niggun, on the tehinnah niggun. And you find it (sings) — that’s, that’s purely tehinnah. That’s a tehinnah niggun like the, the women used to sit, sit and, and read the, the Tz’enah Ur’enah. But later, he wrote some very sophisticated and — I, I don’t know — esoteric music, which I didn’t understand and I didn’t sing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=151.0,202.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: You mean, more harmonically complex?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Harmonically complex, and more — and I didn’t understand it, I didn’t sing it. And I didn’t even have the audience. I was willing to, to study and learn something new and something more, as I say, complex. But the audiences didn’t go for it. Weiner — but one thing I must say. He tried to educate the Jewish listener. He was the conductor of the Workmen’s Circle Chorus. Plain people — volksmenschen, where they say — people who have, they didn’t, they couldn’t even read music. And they, I don’t, I doubt whether they ever went to a, to a classical concert. And still, he used to teach them quite complicated, complicated compositions occasionally, whether they wanted or not. He literally crammed it down their throats. And whenever I went to one of his concerts, they also complained. In fact, I remember Robert Abelson sang once in one of his concerts in later years, some of his compositions, at the Y. And there was a critic at the Forverts called Terlov — Yitzhak Terlov. And he was a critic. He, he was some sort of — you know, he wrote for the Forverts. And he said, wrote, “Robert Abelson ed gezungen var proffessore” — he sang like a professor. It means very stiff or very — academically. I don’t know what he had in mind. And, and Mrs. Weiner called me and said, “Did you read that idiot’s review? Do you know him?” I said, “Yes, I do.” She said, “Why don’t you ask him what he meant?” So I call up, I call up Terlov, and I said, “What did you mean, he sang like a professor?” He says, “Nuach tuch tache gezungen var professore.” You see, that was, that was about the, the level of the, of the listeners, you understand?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=202.0,330.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA: Weren’t there critics, though…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Of the Yiddish…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Weren’t there critics who were a little more insightful, in terms of the Yiddish press?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Very little. Not in my time. Because Bugatch became a critic later, in the Forverts. And that was another story. He once came late to one of Weiner’s concerts. And Weiner found out about it. And he had criticized, he dared to criticize something. And Weiner, and Weiner said, “You are no longer my friend. I don’t want to talk to you as long as I live. And even when I die, if I should die before you, I don’t want you to write anything about me.” And you know that I think Bugatch really took it so to heart that he couldn’t, he became ill from, from, you know, aggravation and, and sorrow. He, it really, that was Weiner. He, he was very vindictive, in this respect. But I don’t know if the other papers had any more knowledgeable…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=330.0,395.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA: (INAUDIBLE)?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah, Dani wrote for the Freiheit, and I don’t know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: The Freiheit was, of course, the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: The Communist…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …the Communist weekly.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …paper.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: It’s still published.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Secunda used to write, too.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: For the Forverts.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I think there were some of Secunda’s reviews in that, in one of my albums that I brought. But…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Through the years…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: To what degree were Weiner’s songs actually performed before the public, other than in concerts that Weiner himself organized? Because let’s say if you look at the total scheme of what Belarsky recorded — and he recorded about 20 LPs worth of Yiddish songs, and he worked with Weiner very frequently.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Oh, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=395.0,434.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA: There were very few songs by Weiner that he actually performed.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah, yeah. Because Sidor wanted to sing songs that are popular with, for, with the audiences. The audience would appreciate it. The Yiddish-speaking audience didn’t know how to appreciate Weiner’s music. It was too far out, it was too complex, it was too classical for them. They just didn’t understand it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eJUDY: Were there any audiences that did appreciate it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No, it…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eJUDY: Because today, I’m finding that there is a, a great problem in, in, in, in having people out there who want to hear this type of music. Was there, at some point in time, an intelligentsia…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: There, there…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eJUDY: …that wanted…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=434.0,475.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: …there was a certain amount of people who went to those concerts and maybe did appreciate it, more or less. Some of them were friends of Weiner’s. Now I find that, for instance, at the Hebrew Union College, they, last, a couple of years ago, somebody wrote her thesis on Weiner, and wrote, and did her graduation concert on Weiner. I think her name is Kahane.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: She, they she appeared here. She became a cantor. And they teach a lot of Weiner’s music, I know. In fact…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=475.0,512.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Well, so do I. We hear, from this question…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …the question that Judy asks actually pertains not only to Weiner, but to the earlier generation that we spoke of earlier today, when we were outside. In other words, was there ever, was there ever, and if, and what type of audience was there for Yiddish art music? In other words, the Gezellshaft Yiddishe Volksmusik gave programs in St. Petersburg. I’m not concerned with numbers. If there was a steady audience of a hundred people each, that’s fine, too. It doesn’t matter how big. But what was it…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Very little. Very, very little. I think there exists now, like here at the Seminary, sometimes, cantors who are interested, occasionally. I understand they put on concerts and they use some of the music. But I’m…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=512.0,559.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: But you’ll find one or two songs. But I mean, if the, as you say, the, as Belarsky found out…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Well, one of the more easy, like a getzweit, a niggun.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Right. Yeah, a niggun was the most common…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: A avaisele. And the niggun, I heard once a, a Korean singer sing, I think, and a black singer. Sang it beautifully.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: In Yiddish?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: In Yiddish.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: You know Belarsky’s famous story about the Milner Children’s Suite? Do you remember that story?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Milner was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You’re talking about Sidor Belarsky.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=559.0,589.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA: Sidor Belarsky was telling a story about Milner and the performance of the, The Children’s Suite, the ten songs, the text by Y. L. Peretz. And this was going back in 1919, in St. Petersburg. And Milner was presenting his song cycle with a soprano, and he made an announcement. And Belarsky was in the audience. Belarsky was probably a student in the conservatory at the time. So Milner was making an announcement, Songs, Children Suite by Milner, composed for the piano, so-and-so, so-and-so soprano. And he begins, and they go through the first song in the cycle. And after he finishes the first song, before the soprano has a chance to catch her breath and go on to the next song, a man in the back yells out, “Eili, Eili!” Which meant, in terms of Belarsky telling the song, was that even the public that came to the conservatory to hear the song cycle, there were very few people that were really interested in seriously listening to a cycle of these ten songs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Unfortunately.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=589.0,640.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA: Which were not of the most — they weren’t extremely complex. And they were not extremely modern.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But they’re subtle. You see, it’s the same thing as…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Unfortunately.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …but I’m not sure it’s any different than, it’s only different in degree from the general public and general music. I mean, there’s a, the more miniature the form, the more miniature the audience. It’s quite…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: As, as they say, veas yiddelsach hazay christelsavis; christelsavis ha yiddel sachis.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But getting back, I mean, when we talked about the Kulturbund earlier, and, you know, whether there was really any audience for Yiddish art music — even a hundred people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=640.0,673.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Well, I think I, I was the, the token, the token Yiddish music there. That’s why they engaged, engaged me. In fact, I was a persona grata in Nazi Germany, because I knew Yiddish and Hebrew. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have never received a permit to work, you understand? That was the irony of it. Speaking of a niggun, incidentally, when I was in Israel the first time…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: When?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: A niggun.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: The first time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Weiner. The first time?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: When did you go to Israel…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=673.0,702.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: In ’49. And I was invited to sing over the radio, Kol Yisrael. Carl Solomon — is the name familiar to you? Carl Solomon was the director. “No Yiddish.” So Avraham Levinson was a famous, in those days, a poet and Avraham translated, translated it into Hebrew for me. (Sings a little of it) And I sang it in Hebrew. I still have it. It’s a beautiful translation.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Actually, there were a lot of Yiddish…. Well, I don’t know — that’s another subject. Maybe you know the answer to….\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: This is à propos.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: No, it’s à propos. You reminded me of something that I make an assumption about. Which is Golub. Solomon Golub. Published X number of songs. I don’t know — four volumes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=702.0,746.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: I have several books of his.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah, about four, let’s say, four volumes — thin four volumes of Yiddish songs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I have three, I think.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Or maybe it’s three, and then…. But then he has them all in Hebrew, as well.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes. That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Max Josanowsky, also.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Okay. Now the question…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes. I have a letter — a Hebrew letter — by Josanowsky.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …the question, I made the assumption that this is the same — basically the same — reason, but I don’t know it for a fact. In other words, that Golub probably, he was a Yiddishist. He wrote Yiddish songs. But to make it more useable, because in an era here where people weren’t interested in Yiddish, but the Zionists were interested in Hebrew…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=746.0,778.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Yes. I, I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …because otherwise, what’s the point?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …don’t know. Josanowsky…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Every song is in Yiddish, and then there’s a Hebrew translation. But clearly, as well, as, but it’s for American audiences.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes, and Omrim Yeshna Eretz has a Yiddish translation. I, it’s under a cassette that Barry produced.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah. Who made that translation? That’s not Engels Omrim\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: It’s not credited.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I would…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: There’s no credit in it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: It’s not credited. And it was in there…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But Engel, I know that he did. It wasn’t published in Yiddish, I don’t think, originally.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: There is a published version.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: It, it was.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: In Yiddish?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Many of the songs were printed…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: In four languages?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I had it in…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: In four languages.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But Yiddish…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I had it in, it, from the WEVD. They had everything. They had from the publications.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=778.0,813.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: But Omrim Yeshna Eretz was published, you know, they would do it in German, Russian and Hebrew, too.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: And Yiddish.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: That was in Yiddish, to…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Was it also published in Yiddish?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: That was in Yiddish. There’s a few words that weren’t quite right, and I, I doctored them.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: From Engel’s house. And Yuval in Berlin. Or…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I don’t remember where. I got it at WEVD, from Zaslowsky, years ago. You know? It was a very poor Yiddish. It’s toybilt — they said toybilt, something like that time. It must have been published in Russia in the, in the beginning, when the, when the…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=813.0,848.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: But we don’t know — well, I can check if it’s one of the original Gezellshaft publications.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: I mean, there are songs from Engel that were obviously originally in Hebrew, like the Ahavat Raya, which are printed in a Yiddish version or printed in a German version.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Well, no. The Gezellshaft printed them in German, did it themselves in German.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But that was the whole idea for four languages. But not always. So the question is…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: But the Yiddish sounded like German, too. The Yiddish was, was, it was supposed to be more elegant.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: It was Deustchmarisch. Deustchmarisch.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah, yeah. But getting back, I mean, to the question of audiences. In your, in your American experience, which dates from when you came to America, in ’39?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Well, it’s ‘3, well, I started singing about ’40 or so.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: In, but I mean, you were singing when you, when you arrived in America?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=848.0,890.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: ’39, ’40. And in the beginning, I presented those songs from, that I had brought with me from Berlin, from the, from the Muzik Gezelleshaft. And then I found something by Jack Yisroel Gladstein from Warsaw, you know. Some on Biblical themes, themes. But the people, when I started singing Gebirtig, they accepted it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: It’s more, today, of course, it’s more…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: More.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …accessible.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=890.0,920.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBENYA:\u003c/strong\u003e Much, you know. And Manger, then later — the Manger’s poems. I mean, I used, I had to sing a lot for the Congress for Yiddish, for Jewish Culture. And they used to arrange not — and the Workmen’s Circle arranged literary evenings in honor of poems — poets — who were still around, in memory of poets. You know? And I had to find the right music, by different composers. W, Metro had some of it, you know. But that’s how I accumulated quite a collection of music. Some I only sang once. That was that, you know? But as far as, I mean, I smuggled, I used to smuggle in an art song. You see? I went on a tour with the Workmen’s Circle. It was some Peretz year, I don’t know if, yahrzeit or birthday of I. L. Peretz. So I used to sing, amongst other things, Der Schiffer and Broitele from The Children’s Suite. And it was accepted. I mean, some people appreciated it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=920.0,994.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: The bottom line is that it’s not, you’re looking in the wrong place. But that’s another story. Because if you, I mean, it would be, if Yiddish art songs were programmed, along with Norwegian and German and French and Italian art songs, on an art song program, on a lieder recital — not for Jews; for concerts — for lieder recital goers, then of course, it would be heard. That’s the way it should be.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Unfortunately, I don’t, I don’t recall having…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: No, it’s, hasn’t, much. No. But that’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Never, never did I encounter. I mean, I used to go a lot to concerts. But I never heard anyone include…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=994.0,1028.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Because it isn’t…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …a Yiddish…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: No. Because it hasn’t yet been, become part of the concert repertoire.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Listen, Neil. I, when I first started singing Yiddish here, some organizations — Jewish organizations — didn’t want it. Even Hadassah or B’nai B’rith. They didn’t — “No Yiddish.” No Yiddish. And they did me a favor of, then I said, let me sing once. So I, I remember I sang, takhe, Omrim Yeshna Eretz in Yiddish for B’nai B’rith Women. They said, “Oh, Miss Benya, we didn’t know such music existed in Yiddish.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Because their association with Yiddish was the cheapest side of Yiddish theater, probably.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: She said — in fact, I even remember she, that she said to me, “Please, don’t do anything that Molly Picon does.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: There you are.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=1028.0,1071.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA: Well, I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That’s the American…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And I thought Molly Picon was a great artist, but…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But that’s the American perception — that it was only that. And the kind of thing that you do…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: But unfortunately, now, that’s all you hear is junk. I mean, it’s terrible. Terrible.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That’s how, that’s, we come back to what, Judy’s question. How different was it? I mean, was there a small…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: There was still, I, when I came to MAILAMM, there was still, there was — MAILAMM was still in existence. Anna Rothenberg…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And MAILAMM, just for…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Anna Schumer Rothenberg was, I met her at that time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Who?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I, Anna Schumer Rothenberg.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: She published a volume of…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: She has a, I have a book of hers. She was a singer. She was the daughter of a famous Yiddish novelist, Schumer. Schumer’s Romanin, you know. They were like real junk. At that, if Schumer, the Charles Schumer, you know, is related to the family.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=1071.0,1123.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: That I didn’t know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He’s a member of, yeah. Charles Schumer. What is he? A council of New York.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: City Councilman?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: City Council or something.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Or Congressman, or one of the others.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: That’s the Schumer. And Weiner I sang, and Rudinoff appeared, and his wife.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Leviash.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Leviash.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: At MAILAMM programs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: MAILAMM programs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Now this…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: When I first came here, it was one of my first programs. I think Professor Rosowsky was involved in it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: They were all. The only trouble is, is MAILAMM was just on its way to extinction when you got here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=1123.0,1155.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Because…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: But I still sang at one…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …but that’s, that’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …one of the concerts.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …that’s the answer, in all, to the question. You see? But MAILAMM hasn’t existed since then. Then, for a while, it became — I mean, MAILAMM was the, what was the acronym?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Something about music. I don’t know. Music America.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Music something. Israelite is in there, somewhere. Anyway…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I don’t know, exactly.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That’s a long story. I mean, I have a student that wrote her entire master’s thesis on…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Oh, really?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …the history of MAILAMM.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: So I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: But let’s say, if you talk about Rudinoff, he publicly performs Achron’s songs…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=1155.0,1191.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Mangel’s songs…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: In those days…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Right. Because…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …I remember Leviash singing El Hatzipor by Milner. Biakik’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But what you’re saying is that the instrument, if I understand you correctly — and it makes sense — that the instrument to foster an audience for this type of sophisticated music, Jewish music — whether it’s Yiddish or Hebrew doesn’t make any difference — was an organization such as MAILAMM.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=1191.0,1217.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: And that’s, and when MAILAMM — because I can tell you, I mean, just sharing things. I mean, when I looked at this for a student of mine, Kim Conrad, who, it’s an incredible piece of information that she found lying in the archives at Lincoln Center. And she went through it and found the correspondence of MAILAMM and the concert programs that had, it answers the question…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I mean…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Instrumental music, too.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: If you were looking not only at who was on the board of directors of MAILAMM, it was everyone who was anyone in music who happened to be Jewish, and also some not. Ossip Gabrilowitsch, the greatest pianist, famous for the Brahms Concerto. I mean, they were all the conductors…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=1217.0,1257.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: …all the, they all had their names on the rolls of MAILAMM. And so it must have…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: There, there were concerts in Town Hall. We did Jewish music, instrumental music. I don’t know who I, I don’t know if it was arranged by MAILAMM. Even on WEVD, there was a big library with orchestrations. They had a little orchestra. They had about a seven-, eight-piece orchestra. They had orchestrations for all these songs I used to sing with the orchestra. All these songs. Omrim Yeshna Eretz or, or Ich Bin Taych.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You sang on them WEVD, you say?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yes. Did you sing with that orchestra? The…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I sang the with, with Zaslowsky…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That’s what I wanted to know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …with, with Garnett. Secunda conducted.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That was all live?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=1257.0,1310.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Live. Live. I used to go, I remember Ganchoff going on at twelve o’clock. Sometimes I would replace him, when he, it was a yontif, he couldn’t be on the radio. Sturman’s Bread, I would be on.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Did ya know a Rabbi Alman. Right? He’hallil. You sang on that.\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: That was for Pioneer Women.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: But didn’t you sing on the radio, also?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He’hallil, yes. Who remembers? He’hallil and some ghetto song.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: But when you’re talking about MAILAMM and you’re dealing with a situation where there’s an organization specifically set up for music of a higher level of sophistication. We were speaking before, relative to some of the concerts that Vladimir Heifetz conducted. So on occasion, if an outside source came in, let’s say, like Rudinoff. I had heard a recording of a concert that they performed in 1946, for example, where Rudinoff was the baritone soloist. And he sang a grouping of settings by Milner, including — he had a very complex song called Der Azel, which was a…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=1310.0,1366.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Oh, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: …it’s a major work. It’s like a, like a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: …cantata for voice and accompaniment.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: He also did the At Anna, the Psalm 13…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: …and In Cheder. So this is not a situation where music is being performed primarily for musicians. But this was a general concert for the general Jewish concert-going public.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You see, after MAILAMM, then, of course, there was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Then, of course, there were conduct, choruses under the auspices of different organizations. There was the Farband choir. Leo Low conducted. Then there was the Muzik Gezelleshaft.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=1366.0,1400.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: What was that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: That was, they, they, they were not really affiliated with any political organization or anything. But Heifetz was their conductor. I know that Sol Tischman was very active.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah. That was called in English the Jewish Culture Chorus.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Is that the one?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah. That was the one.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: The Jewish Culture Chorus.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd then there was the Workmen’s Circle Chorus, with Lazar Weiner. And I also sang with Moshe Rauch, who was a very fine conductor with the People’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Jewish People’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …that was the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: The communists?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: The communists.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That was, what was the name of that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Jewish People’s Philharmonic Chorus.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Jewish People’s…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=1400.0,1436.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Jewish People’s Philharmonic, Philharmonic Chorus. Malick conducted it at one time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And that was a complete communist…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Eugene Malick.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That wasn’t pink anymore.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Well, now, nothing is, you know. Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: But they had a whole network of choruses in different cities.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: And in fact, Malick conducted that chorus…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: In Chicago.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: …in Chicago.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I know. They wanted…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: In Chicago.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …me to do it, but I was afraid to.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes. Later, I refused to. When Moshe Rauch was still the conductor, he asked me to sing in Philharmonic Hall. I was afraid. I didn’t, I refused.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=1436.0,1467.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: I sang in Town Hall with him. I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Now, didn’t Lazar Weiner start with one of the Commie choruses, and then switched?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: He broke away.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: It’s possible. Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: He broke away.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And then he didn’t want to be associated…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: That’s, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Helfmann succeeded, Helfmann continued with them.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Now, what chorus was that? Was that the Jewish People’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Jewish People’s Philharmonic Chorus.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But do you remember Maxim Bardin?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Of course. I knew him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Now, was that the Jewish People’s Philharmonic? Or that was something else?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He wasn’t a conductor. Maxim Bardin is…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But he was the administrator.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Jewish Music Alliance.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah, he, music…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: The Jewish Music Alliance.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Alliance. Yeah, I have a book, he gave me a book.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But they had a chorus. Is that the Jewish People’s Chorus?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: But that’s the Philharmonic. That’s the same organization. Those were the, the leftists, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=1467.0,1500.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA: And Yardini was involved with them, also.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And then, of course…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …there were the Zionists choruses. There was the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Well, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …there was the Labor Zionist chorus. They had…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Kingsley, wasn’t Gershon Kingsley also a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Probably.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …conductor of a Zionist, if I’m not mistaken?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Probably. He was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: But I, I did sing for the Zionist organization as a soloist, you know. With, Tochina is the chairman and so on, in those days. I sang with many, you’ll see from some of the clippings that they copied. But big cantatas. I sang not only in New York. Cleveland, there was Dan Froman in Detroit. A very fine conductor. And I did, we did Hersh Shlecker by Weiner, that cantata. Also The Song of Miriam, by Schubert, in Yiddish.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=1500.0,1552.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Who translated it into Yiddish?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I don’t know. I don’t know. Miriam’s Gezangen. I did it in New York, I think, with Rauch. And then with Bugatch, I used to sing his cantata. I did The Yiddish Allegender. You know, in the, based on a text by Bialik. The Jewish legend.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You knew Bugatch well, didn’t you?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Very well, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Because that was my first introduction. That’s how I first heard, the first kind of indirect — and very indirect — contact with you.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Which I never told you. Was that…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …in 1974 or ‘5 or something like this, I was working on a book, and I needed some help with the Yiddish information. It was a complicated kind of esoteric Americana. And I was at his home in the summer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=1552.0,1600.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Oh, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And he was helping me. And I don’t know, it was 95 degrees out. I’ll never forget it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And he was helping me…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: In, in…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …and no air conditioner. And he said, “Well, now, for these things, I don’t know the answers.” He made a list. “I have to call Mascha Benya.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Oh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And I was right there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Now, he’s telling me.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And he called you, and you gave him the answers. I’ll give you, I can remember what one was. One was, there was a song about Castle Garden.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Oh, I don’t even know which song it is.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Which had been adapted from another song.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: About, and the question was, whether Castle Garden was the same thing as Coney, as Ellis Island.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=1600.0,1637.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: No, it was a different place.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Or whether it was a different place. And the song was based on some — Vayomer Vacluct – that was it. And he got that from, that was the first.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I, I don’t, I wonder if I knew it then.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You knew it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I don’t even know…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Because you gave the information to Bugatch, and then…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes. He was, he wrote some nice, beautiful songs. Lovely songs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: There’s one or two in particular, the famous…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Zog Maran is a beautiful song and I, on one of the records that I made with the Workmen’s Circle Children’s Choir, I sing a lullaby by Peretz. (SINGS) Sounds a little like Brahms, but it’s a lovely song. And I have more songs that I used to sing of his. He, I have a few more songs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=1637.0,1691.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: There’s one about the pearl, Suychuch…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Suyhelfen Pel, I did that. And some from the Song of Songs he wrote.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: He had some things of…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Enoch Yar Far a-Yati.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: …Lord Byron, he had some settings in Yiddish.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No, that I don’t…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You know, he once said, by the way, before you — Zog Maran would be a very good song for you, don’t you think?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: It’s a lovely song.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: It would be a good song for Judy.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Zog Maran.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: It’s beautiful. It’s really a duet.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You never sang it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eJUDY: No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: It’s actually, it could be sung by two…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But it could be sung by one.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: It’s a question and answer song.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=1691.0,1721.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: It’s a very nice song. Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: It’s very nice. Very nice. And that lullaby is nice, too. And Zemer, and Zemer Bim-Bom, by, you know, that very popular…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah. That’s very well-known, too.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Which he…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But I always wondered whether that was his song or whether it was an adaptation of a folk song.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: He said it was his song.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: And he was very disturbed when he would hear people singing it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And singing it…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Ad-libbing in addition, beyond the melody which he wrote.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Well, so…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: There’s a certain cantor…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …what else is new?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: There was a certain cantor who used to go into a recitative in the middle of a song.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=1721.0,1751.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: And I heard recently a singer singing a niggun by Weiner. So when the pianist started, she put in some dreidelach, you know. And the singer got off on some, on some hazzanas, too. So I came, afterwards, I said, “What makes you think that you know better than Weiner how the song should go?” And she, she felt offended. You know it’s, it’s incredible. It’s being done, of course, the Duo — Olive, you know, Sophia and Olive did it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And Olive Duo.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Olive Duo.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: They did it. And I, I took, I, well…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Because nobody conceives of this kind of, of these things as art, which they wouldn’t dare touch. But instead, they…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=1751.0,1797.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Ah, they don’t know what art is.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: They don’t understand what it is, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: They don’t know what it is. But as I say, I sang with Bugatch, and, in, in New York. And he conducted choruses in New Jersey and, and I sang…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: In Patterson?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: There’s a program, there’s a, a photo in one of the albums that I brought of me before a concert or after, with Weiner on one side and Bugatch on the other side. I, I remember I used to sing, start this program with Yiddish, Mein Golden Abrunnen. And Weiner was there as a guest or something. But then, after that program, that review, they…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That was it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=1797.0,1844.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBENYA:\u003c/strong\u003e Weiner was really, hurt him terribly. He could be like that, you know? I shouldn’t even tell it in front of the camera. I remember Weiner playing for a singer. She came from Israel. She was a coloratura soprano. And she gave a recital in Carnegie Recital Hall. And she was singing some coloratura passage, and the high note wasn’t so, as it should be. So Weiner turned around and made a face, in front of the audience, you know. And she — it, and that was Weiner. But he could be, you know, if he believed in you, he kept on asking, “Why don’t you give a recital? Why don’t you give a recital?” Every time he saw me, he would urge me to give a recital, to make records.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=1844.0,1895.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA: You should have made more records.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I should have, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: He was right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And, but he was not such a, he was, he could be very bitter.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eJUDY: Mascha…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And mean.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eJUDY: …would you say that Weiner had a natural genius for melody? Or would you say that many of his songs, with all due respect, are contrived? The melody is not a naturally flowing melody.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Well, because…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eJUDY: It’s, it’s almost as if a person sat down with a mathematical compilation and decided to put certain notes down to make them sound sophisticated.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=1895.0,1932.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Make them interesting.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eJUDY: But…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah. That’s, that’s what I thought.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eJUDY: …would, would you…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: That’s what I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eJUDY: …would you feel that that’s a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I felt, I felt that way. But I’m not really well enough acquainted or, or, with, with the, he, I don’t know what to, to call it, with the harmony or, or, or, or theory or the history of music, that I should be able to judge. All I can tell you is if it appeals to me, if I feel he, I have an instinct for it. But I’m not, I’m frank enough to tell you that I’m not such a maven when it comes. Of course it sounded contrived. It did sound contrived. But he felt that he should go further than just the, write those melodious, melodious songs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=1932.0,1983.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: But you’re talking about certain songs. And I know what you mean. I don’t know if I agree with it. But I know what you mean. I think I feel it in some. But, for example, in Ergetz Zweit, you don’t. You…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No. Ergetz Zweit is marvelous.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: (INAUDIBLE). And in…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Marvelous.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …well, in Shtilla Licht, you wouldn’t…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Shtilla Licht, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You mean some of the later songs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Well, yes. There are a lot of them. I have, I have…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I even bought one recently, the 14 songs. But look — that lullaby by Shumiatcher is marvelous.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eJUDY: It’s a beautiful piece.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Beautiful.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Now, tell us who was Esther Shumiatcher.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Esther Shumiatcher was Mrs. Weiner’s sister. And she…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eJUDY: She was Canadian, I believe. She came from Winnipeg.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=1983.0,2022.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Yeah. They came from Calgary.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eJUDY: Calgary, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I was, I sang in Calgary, I met the whole family. Amos Hirschbein is her son. Amos Hirschbein.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Well, she was married to Peretz Hirschbein?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah, Peretz Hirschbein was her, was her husband. The husband of Esther Shumiatcher.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You say it as if I should know. But she didn’t use his name. So there you go.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: It’s (INAUDIBLE).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eJUDY: She was ahead of her time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And they are a very musical family.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: (INAUDIBLE).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I have, they, they, there is another niece of Weiner whose name, they called her Minuetta.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Kessler.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Oh, Minuetta Kessler.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Oh, Kessler. The only reason I know it is because how many people in the world are named Minuetta?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: She is, her, her maiden name is Minuetta Shumiatcher.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=2022.0,2061.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: I didn’t know that, either. So now she’s already getting all the business, even.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: From Calgary. I knew her parents. I knew her father. I, I sang in Calgary.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: So let me get this all straightened out.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I knew even…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Esther Shumiatcher was married to Peretz Hirschbein.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: She was also the sister of Mrs. Weiner.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Right? Mrs. Weiner is still living?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Naomi.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Naomi.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: She’s now deceased.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: She passed away?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: She passed away, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eJUDY: When was that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: It wasn’t…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I saw such a tiny…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I didn’t see anything.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eJUDY: Aw.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …tiny obituary in the Times, after I read about it in the Forverts.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But how long ago?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: A couple, couple of years ago.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eJUDY: Was it, really?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: They did not somehow…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: No, that’s typical.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=2061.0,2099.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: …put a, a notice in the Times — a big one or something like that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eI used to be in touch with her. She would call me and she would always talk about why people don’t sing Weiner’s songs, and so on.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But then…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: But she, she died. And the Workmen’s Circle had it, had a note, obituary in the Forverts. That’s how I found out. And then, when I looked — you know, somebody, a neighbor of mine knew that I had something to do with music. He said, “I saw something about, in the Times, this big.” This big. Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But anyway, that, so her sister, Esther Shumiatcher, was married to Peretz Hirschbein.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Esther Shumiatcher was married to Hirschbein.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes. Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: All right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Now, that’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: They had a, they had a big family in Calgary. I think I even met her, their mother, years ago. I used to sing a lot in Western Canada. And the brother’s daughter was Minuetta. They were all musicians. And she gave me that book. Do you have it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=2099.0,2161.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Which one?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: That she published some…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah. She sent it to me.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Kessler.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah. And the other, let’s see — the Weiner song, the first one that you sang was Mani Leib’s poem.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Mani Leib’s.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Mani Leib’s. You knew him?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I had met him, I think, once, in the cafeteria — Garden Cafeteria — shortly before he died. I understand that he was a shoemaker by profession. And he wrote some — I think I even have a book of Mani Leib maybe, in Yiddish and English. I’m not sure. But he wrote some beautiful, beautiful…. I think, is Suyhelfen Pel by Mani Leib?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: It might be.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I believe so.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I don’t know. There are a number of…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I used to sing A Hasane, which was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah. I notice a number of Yiddish art songs by other composers, much less than…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He was a very lyric poet. Very lyric poet.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: There are several composers who set his, I mean, composers that we could mention now…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Maybe you know something about them, but…. I mean, of much lesser repute than Weiner.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=2161.0,2226.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: For example, in California, there was Weinstock.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes. I have a book…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You have that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …of Weinstock.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And but this is not anyone that you know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Lamkoff.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Lamkoff is another one.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Lamkoff. That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Did you know Lamkoff?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I didn’t know him personally. I have the book.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Barkin used to sing one song from him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Ich Bin a Bissel Goy.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Which one? Ich Bin a Bissel Goy, Belarsky made it popular.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But Lamkoff — what do we know about him?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Nothing. I don’t know. I don’t, there were some other songs there. I think, Ein Kreinisch Past, Pastafrides.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Umrum, Umrum.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Umrum, by Misha Laib Halperin, is a very nice song. And now…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That’s been sung by several people, too.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Auf Keinisch Pasterleid is beautiful, by Mani Leib. That’s by Mani Leib. A beautiful song. And then, there is also a, a setting to the same by Mani Leib, Chulet Machetunim, which I used to sing, with music by a man whose name was Yudel Keil, Julius Keil. Sarah Gobi also recorded it, you know? But I knew Keil.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=2226.0,2293.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: And then there was — well, what about Henoch Kon?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Henoch Kon.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You knew Henoch Kon at all?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Oh, yes. Surely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Der Bat Khol?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I have a book of his, Der Bat Khol. I have a, a, that book was published by Metro.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Right. And then they reissued it, at some point.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And recently, the Congress, Congress for Jewish Culture had arranged, about two months ago, an afternoon dedicated to Weiner, Henoch Kon and Vladimir Heifetz. So Mlotek — Joseph Mlotek — spoke about Heifetz. And Judith Tischler spoke about Weiner. In English, of course. And Pearl Lang, the dancer — the choreographer — spoke about Henoch Kon. Because she, did you ever see her performance of The Dybbuk in dance? Marvelous. And she used some of Kon’s niggunim.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=2293.0,2358.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA: He did the incidental music for the Warsaw film.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes. She spoke about Henoch Kon. And she, and she told a story that she had bought a book of drawings on the East Side. And under every drawing, there was a little line of a niggun. And it was a drawing by maybe Lichtenstein — I don’t know. There was an artist here by the name of Lichtenstein. And every drawing had a little musical line underneath with a Hasidic niggun. And they were so inspiring that she, she then engaged a composer who built, who built the compositions on, on the topic — on, in that, on that line — and she used it. She, she was, she is still in the process of making a film of the, of The Dybbuk. And she showed, on that occasion, some of the scenes, which are — I saw it once.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=2358.0,2424.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: A new film?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Well, it’s not complete. She’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: So it didn’t even…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: It’s not…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: In other words…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: But I saw the whole Dybbuk years ago, I think, either at the Y or at the Public National Theater downtown. Marvelous. Absolutely. And wonder, wonderful. Just wonderful.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Did you know Henoch Kon personally?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Did you what was his major…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He worked, I understand that he was connected with a Lodz theater.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: In Lodz?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: In Lodz. And he wrote an awful lot for the theater. And he was a very recognized, very prolific composer in Poland.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=2424.0,2467.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: What kind of — not only in Yiddish songs, then?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: In Yiddish theater.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Theater music.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Theater music. Theater music. And then he wrote some art songs, too. Very pretentious.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: The art songs? Right, right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Very pretentious, and — I don’t know. It’s very hard. But he wrote a few, some, he wrote….for instance, there was a director in Poland — an actor-director — Yitzhak Rothbaum. And he, he came to this country. And the Folksbiene put on a show based on Goldfaden’s Hotsmach story. But it was written by Yitzhik Manger. And Henoch Kon wrote additional music to it. Original music. Which was very, very good. You know? And I have, but then, in later years, somehow…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=2467.0,2528.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA: You sang some of those songs, didn’t you?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes. Somehow, he deteriorated. I don’t know. And when I had my radio program — I used to be on the radio first three times a week; then the next year, twice a week; and then the third, once a week. He used to call me and say, “One of the ladies, the dammen vers shreiden grammen” — the ladies who write rhymes — “came to me, and they said I should write music to their poems. And they’ll pay me only if they hear it sung.” So he said, “You have, you have a program three times a week. And every time you sing three songs, please, push in one song there for me. Do me a favor. Otherwise, I wouldn’t get paid.” You know, it was so sad. So I had to choke with those songs, you know, which was junk. But, but he did write some beautiful songs, too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=2528.0,2584.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: There are some nice art songs. They’re not sophisticated…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: There is one on this cassette that, that Barry, Barry is, is trying to put out with, with some, Manger’s songs. And I sing some of it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: What’s interesting with Henoch Kon, I mean, this — for example, the theater, the songs we have. But the theater music. Where would one find that today? From the, what he wrote in Lodz. And what he wrote here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Where would one find it? I don’t know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Did he leave family? Did Henoch Kon leave any family? Did he have any children?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: You want to hear…\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=2584.0,2619.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBENYA:\u003c/strong\u003e …how it…. Henoch Kon, as I say, he was very poor. And occasionally, he would call me up and say, “Mascha, I wrote a new song. May I bring it over and play it for you?” So he would come over. I lived at the Alamac Hotel at that time. I would prepare supper for him and a bottle of wine. And he would sit down at the piano and play the song for me, and I would give him $35 with the, all the leftovers from the dinner. You know, then he needed to, to get Social Security, so they gave him some sort of a letter, that he made thousands of dollars from me. But the truth was that he was, somehow, he had a friend — some sort of an artist — who had an apartment, and he took him in. Then the friend moved away to the country, and he remained. Nobody knew what, where he was, what he did. And there was a singer in those days by the name of Ruchel Rellis. And she knew him from Paris. He, after the war, he came to Paris. And one day, Ruchel Rellis came to visit him, and she found him starving. The house was dirty, full of vermin, and so on and so forth. And she notified the Farband, I don’t know. They put him in the Bialystock Home for the Aged. And he lived exactly one day there. And he died. Then they found some bank books for $75,000 in the apartment. And they took it. That was the end of him. And then I, I heard that he had some relative in Israel, or in Paris — I don’t know. That was very sad. He had deteriorated. But I used to, as I say, he, he used to come over, and he would sell me a song, you know, and get a dinner, and so on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=2619.0,2743.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: It seems to be, but we’re not going to mention it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: It was very sad.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: There used to be a, and actually, in other words, he had $75,000.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Seventy-five thousand dollars.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah. That’s just not…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And he was starved. He was really starving.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: We know a few cantors who might have lived like that, but also had even more than $75,000.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: They were saving.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Much, much, much, much more in the bank. And some Yiddish singers. That seems to be an infectious…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I don’t know. It was very sad. Very sad.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But from what you tell me, I can see that if he had the, whatever music he had in that place was shoveled into the garbage.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=2743.0,2780.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Nothing was published. I recently, I read — there’s a very fine literary magazine being published in Israel, but, and the editor is Avraham Sutzgavel, the great poet. And I read a notice that there’s a, they are planning to publish a book of songs, poems — I mean, music set to the poems of Yitzhik Manger. And they asked the people who have any material to send it to Issa Harfarter. You know who he is?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yes, yes. The book just came out in Hebrew.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I don’t — in Hebrew?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: It came out in Hebrew last year.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Well, he sent me, he sent me the book in Yiddish.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah, I have that, too.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I started a correspondence with him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=2780.0,2832.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: But it came out in Hebrew like two years ago.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: You mean Chodesh Va-Khol in Jewish music?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: No, no, no. Fartar…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Oh, the other one?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: It’s a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Oh, the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …Svishen vay…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Svishen Vay de Velcome, poems.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I have it in Yiddish.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: It’s now in Hebrew.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: So maybe he would know more about Henoch Kon, you know?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: The other thing that intrigued me about Henoch Kon was the, the question, why he spelled his name with a K-O-N for Kon?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Well, Kon, it was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Because typically, the communists, it was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …to do that so that you shouldn’t be associated with Cohen, with Cohen. But I don’t know if that’s the case here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I, I no, I don’t think so. I don’t think so. He was, as I say, people who knew him in Poland said that he was a very, I mean, recognized composer. And, but I don’t know. The book of the art songs seems to be very also pretentious. Don’t you think so? Do you know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=2832.0,2894.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: There are a few that are nice. Great? No. They’re not great. But I mean, I don’t think it’s in a class with Milner or Krein or Gniessin or those people — or even some of Weiner’s. But there are a few songs that are quite nice. In the same sense that there are a few Lemkoff songs that are…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Well, I, I am not really in the position of talk about him, because I met some people from Poland who told me — some who were connected with the Yiddish theater — that he was very, very recognized, and that he wrote a lot. And Pearl Lang, as I say, she gave, I don’t know where she found that material on which she had lectured about him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=2894.0,2935.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: It’s interesting — talking about your own career. You know, we were talking before how you began. I mean you really began, you made your debut singing Verdi and Puccini.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Donizetti.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Donizetti.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No, I, I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And there was one point…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No, the, the official career. But I sang a little Yiddish, anyway.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But in the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: At home, I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …in the major part of your career, you became — but all of the various things that you did, the general persona has always been, you know, as the expert in Yiddish lieder. In kunst lieder.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I wouldn’t…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Especially in kunst lieder.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I wasn’t an expert. I still am not. I don’t think I’m an expert.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But you know that you are. Let’s not…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No, no.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=2935.0,2978.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: You know that. And so that you are the one person to whom someone can go today. Maybe 30 years ago, there was more than one. But today, you certainly are the one person that somebody can go to gain an insight into Yiddish theater. And certainly, you are associated with Yiddish song. I mean, if you had…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yiddish song. I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …and Jewish musicians.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I, I feel that a folk song, sung honestly and beautifully and simply, can be just as, just as art, artistic — even, even more than — than the most complicated, complex artsong.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Especially if you, if we, he, one of — more than even the other words that you just, one of the adverbs that you just used — simply.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=2978.0,3027.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Simply.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Simply.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Honestly, sincerely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: On the other hand…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But simply.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Sincerely, simply.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: …you can say the same thing for theater songs. In other words, if someone gets up and sings Mirele by Olshinetsky, you could sing it on a concert program, and it’s a song from a theater production.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: It depends how it’s sung.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Well, all right. A theatrical song…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: That sincerity.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …by definition, may be melodramatic by intent. I mean, that’s a, it may be. We even use the term “theatrical,” sometimes, to — as a synonym for melodramatic, in its negative connotation. But…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Sincerity. Not to go up and make an impression with a big voice or with big, with, with all sorts of tricks. It has to be honest.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=3027.0,3066.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: And if the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Honest and sincere.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …accompaniment to a folk song is simple, wouldn’t you say?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Which I mean, because unlike art songs that we were talking about today…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Well, sometimes…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …folk songs…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …composers go overboard writing arrangements. They, they choke the song.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: All right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: They choke the simplicity.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Tell me. We’re now talking, of course, about folk songs. So it doesn’t matter whether it’s Yiddish folk song or Hebrew folk song. But who are, where are the appropriate types of arrangements — piano settings, I should say. A piano setting.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBecause many of them, as you say, either they’re stupid, either they’re embarrassing, I mean, and it’s nothing to be, there’s no setting there at all. It’s just dumping the vocal line, or they’re ungepotchk. They’re…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=3066.0,3108.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Yeah, too much.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: So give me, who do you, in your opinion…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Well, there are some…. I, I liked, for instance, Engels’ arrangements of Yiddish folk songs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Which makes it, which almost…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I love it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …artistic. They’re art songs, by the time they’re…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes. They’re beautiful. They’re absolutely beautiful. I don’t know offhand, really. Engels I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: How about — I’m thinking off the top of my…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: There is also by Krein, and I have some of them. Gniessin, I think.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But even those are pretty sophisticated.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Some of them. Some of them are…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Saminsky.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Saminsky. Often — I mean, the lullaby has a beautiful arrangement.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: For example, take — now, I think it’s Weiner. It’s a famous Yiddish folk song. He did an arrangement. It’s a piano setting. Oh, this song about the girl with the braids. Margaritalech. With the daisies. Isn’t that the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: That’s what, yeah. By Shneour, you know. Zalman Shneour wrote that poem.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: It’s not a folk song?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I thought it was a folk song.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Zalman Shneour wrote them — the words.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=3108.0,3173.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Now, I think that’s — the words. But who wrote the tune?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes. Oh!\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: I was going to say by Lov.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: There was a, oh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Low, Leo Low.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: There, there, Shneour denied it. Shneour denied it. Lov took credit for it, I understand. There was a big disagreement going on between the two — between Lov and Schneour, I understand. I think Schneour even told it to — I met Schneour here, when he first came here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But Schneour wrote the words to that song.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He wrote it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But who wrote the tune? (Sings a little) That’s the song.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: (Sings more)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: That’s right. Well, Lov claimed — I don’t know. He took the credit for it. But Schneour denied that Lov wrote it. Unless…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Did Lov play piano?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Not well. Not well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=3173.0,3219.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: But he must have played…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He did.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Anyway, we’ll come back to Lov in a second. This, there is a, I believe there is a Weiner, are you familiar with the Weiner piano setting?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: No. Then that would be because…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No, I don’t.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: It’s always a problem. I mean, I think it’s good for…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …but if you don’t…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah I, I don’t, I’m not…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: The question is, you know, who…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I have something that Belarsky had. I don’t know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …who do you trust, if you had to have — even today. I mean, it’s a rhetorical question. But I mean, to set a Yiddish folk song and retain the simplicity, and yet…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Maurice Ravel?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yes. No, no, that’s the answer. But you see, no. Because those, what are there? Three of them? Heh?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: The three…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Two or three, I don’t know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah. And it’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And there you have Ravel…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …it’s a riot.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …Ravel constrained and restrained himself.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I, I told Judith how I recently had to coach a singer in Mei Yirich Mayer Kum Mein Zud. Yeah, I’ve heard it sung — Mei Yurki, you know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: It’s an island in the Mediterranean.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Mei Yurki. Mei Yurki, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That’s what I thought you were saying.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=3219.0,3284.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Yeah. You know, I get a call. This is really a riot. I get a call from a, a young lady. And she said she has to meet me to go over this, the song, Mei Yirich Kum Mein Zud, with a setting of Ravel. She has to sing it at the bris of her friend’s son.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: You know, there’s also a setting by Engel for that song.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Was that something? Is that something? And she brought the book which Abbie, Abbie Austin compiled. You know that book?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Right? The Ravel book. Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And the Yiddish transliteration is horrible.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah. Of course.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Just horrible.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: No, it’s ridiculous. Well, first of all, he’s a Frenchman.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And you know what I heard? That he got the song from, from Engel. Is it possible?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I don’t know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Engel has a version of the song.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Engel has a version.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: It is possible. That’s — how Ravel came to make those settings is another story. It doesn’t matter. I mean, he was interested in all ethnic things.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Do you like it? Do you like it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah, I do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=3284.0,3338.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I do like it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I find, this song is a real folk song, and it has a little traditional Yiddish tam. So it, it should be song more like a recitative. (Sings) Mei Yirich Kum Mein Zud.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah. But you can’t do it that way.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: (Sings a little more of it) That’s the, the rhythm there. You know? It’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I don’t remember that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …it’s not yet…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Engel doesn’t use such a rhythm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Maybe I’m confusing it with the Engel one.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …the introduction (sings a little of it).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: No. I agree with you. I agree with you. That’s crazy. Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: You know? I, I don’t think…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Maybe…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …it happens to be by Ravel. So it’s a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But the reason…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …very impressive.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …I said yes is because it’s simple. But I — yeah. It should be, I think…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: The rhythm…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But anyway, who, again, can you — so, can you think of anybody who did the type of…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: This is a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …arrangements that would be just the right balance?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=3338.0,3394.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: I had an accompanist whose name sometimes — Harry Adnik. He was a very fine pianist. And he arranged the song — the folk song — Varichkes for me, that Moshe Koussevitsky had heard in Russia. And we were friends, and he sang it to me. So I, you know, put it out in the, the melody and — Harry Adnik. It’s a simple folk song. But he, he was a pianist, and he could play the piano. And he put in so much, so many notes in there. You have to break your fingers.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: No, it’s too much. Jaspy was that way. He took and he ruined, you know the arrangement…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Irwin Jaspy. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Which?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: The Kaddish of Lev Yitzhak, for example. They made out of it…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: They made an oratorio out of it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Terrible. Terrible.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: It’s with chorus.\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Well, even Lov’s is a little bit over…\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Lov’s is very much over. I think Engel’s is much better. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I think so, too.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Don’t you agree?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I think so, too. Lov’s was and, and besides that, even the words gutten morgen dir. He would say, “A gut morgen diren buren shlug.” Not gutten morgen. Who says gutten morgen? Maybe a German would say gut gutten morgen. But in Yiddish, we say a, a gut morgen diren burnisch lemen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=3394.0,3473.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Of course, Engel published in German, too, you know?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I have, I have…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You have it, probably.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …it. I have it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I think I have it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Also in Hebrew.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And in Hebrew, of course, yes. In two, in a different key.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: But, but really, I, I really can’t think offhand of a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: There’s another variation on the Merika in the Kutliansky book.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yes?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Oh…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: And there, it’s a titled A Beit Bitten Vegornisht Navo…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Right, right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Oh, yes?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: And he has the same melody — (sings a little of it).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: It’s the same thing? But there again, the accompaniments are silly.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Sparse, yeah. No, he is sort of, sparse in that, in that number.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: They’re sparse, but there’s nothing there. But to find what we are talking about — artistic accompaniments for folk songs — is a trick.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah. Artistic, as I say, I find Engel’s, I love them.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And there’s a perfect…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Erech Mit Su Gezalt — it’s so beautiful.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Now, are you familiar with the project, do you know that, there’s a German-Jewish musicologist, Hans Nathan?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=3473.0,3522.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: I, I know who he was, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And do you know what I’m going to talk about…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I, I, Hans Nathan, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Do you know the settings that he put together of folk songs by…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I’m not familiar with them.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Those are by very fine composers, but restrained.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He, he’s, he came to this country, right?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: In Baltimore or someplace.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Princeton.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Princeton.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah. And then Boston.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Hans Nathan. He was a critic in Berlin.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Critic, and but here, he was a musicologist. But anyway, those are probably some examples. I want to go ask you about your views about Yiddish theater and its music.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=3522.0,3558.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Don’t ask me. I’m not a, a Yiddish theater-goer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You mean you never were?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I never, I never appreciated it. To me, it was — I don’t know. I am sorry to say. Now, I wish it were here. But maybe I was a snob. I don’t know. I, I, I wasn’t a fan.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But let’s talk about…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I was not a fan of the Yiddish theater.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Did you go see Escha Kalb?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah, I saw it. It was okay. Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: How about Goldfaden? Not your…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Well, Goldfaden, played properly…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …it’s beautiful. You have to have voices for that. So…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: See, that’s what I’m talking about.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …in my time, I didn’t — already, it, it, didn’t exist here anymore. I saw Rachel Varnis, I think Ben Bonus had produced it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=3558.0,3601.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: You mean, a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: But they didn’t have the voices. I don’t know. I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You mean, recently?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: That was about, I don’t know…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: About ten, 12 years ago?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Twelve, 15 years ago, already.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah, well, that was the one that — what was her name?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: She was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: In recent times…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: She came from Israel. A Russian singer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah. Azan…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Zaya, Zaya, Zuh….\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Zaya Alman.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Zaya Alman.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: It was Zaya Alman.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Zaya Alman, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Didn’t she study hazzanut for a while?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: For a very short time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah. She called me. She came to me to…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah. She had another, Zaya Alman, and then she was another name. Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: The first name…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Zaya Alman.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …was dropped. She was there in that, and…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I don’t know. To I, I, I shouldn’t be asked, because I don’t want to belittle it. Because I, I really didn’t see too many shows. I saw some when I first came, but I, I wasn’t…. Though I, I used to have to sing some of the songs. When I first came here, somebody recommended me to sing over the radio for Samuel P. Mogilevsky. Do you know who he was? He had a clothing store on Broadway, corner of 9th Street.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=3601.0,3666.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA: 3G, no?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Three, three lucky sevens.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And he was the announcer. He loved show business. He loved show business. So I lived in an apartment, and there was a, another neighbor, and she knew him. So she said, “I’ll take you and introduce you.” So I auditioned, auditioned with Shira Ro’eh. You know, Alman’s Shira Ro’eh, with the, with the high B-flat. He says, “Oh! I’ll call you ‘The Russishe Prima Donna.’” And he used to have on the program a cantor, Chatzkele Ritter, who was a young fellow in those days, you know? And, and occasionally, he would have, and there was Annie Lubin was singing, used to sing the ad, the theme song, and then dance, in front of the microphone. So there you, occasionally, we would have guests — actors — who would come, and I would have to sing duets from Jewish shows with him from…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=3666.0,3736.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: So you did it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …from the theater. Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: What songs did you sing?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I don’t remember.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: You want to forget.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Shir Hashirim, Mich Vo Vachnetva — I don’t know. It’s a — Mazel, I sang somewhere.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Mazel’s a nice song.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: What about…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Very nice, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …what about Yiddish operettas? Even songs?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No I, I, I had nothing to do with it, really.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Who was the music director on the show?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And I’ll bet you your…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: The music director? Who was the pianist there? I don’t remember.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: What are you talking about? What?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: That particular show.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I don’t remember. I know when I first auditioned in WEVD, Harry Lubin was there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Mascha, is it fair to say — I mean, am I guessing correctly that you did go to Yiddish — serious Yiddish — art plays? With the art theaters?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=3736.0,3780.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Well, I did. Yeah, but I, I wasn’t so crazy about it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Not even the art theaters.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No. I mean, I saw a show with Ben Ami that was, he was very good…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That’s what I mean.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …in the beginning.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: The attempt to make a serious…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: In the beginning. But I, I don’t, I don’t know why, but there wasn’t too much. I mean, I did go to the Folksbiene. In those days, the Folksbiene was much better than now. They were always amateurs. But what do you expect? But the Yiddish theater, to me, seemed always lagging. I mean, the, the, the, the, I used, I went a lot to the, to Broadway. To shows, to the opera, and so on and so forth. And I always thought, wondered why the Yiddish theater is so far behind, you know. That, that they…\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Why? By what…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I don’t know what, what it was. It seemed to me so old-fashioned and primitive and, and — I don’t know — vulgar or something. I, I, it’s…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=3780.0,3837.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA: Well, let’s say, the people who were performing in theater…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I shouldn’t say that, really…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You know…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …on, on camera, even.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah. Why not? When you went to, when you came here — you came in 1940. And you had no English at all, did you?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I studied some English.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Oh, you did?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: A little in school. And then I had took some private lessons. I would…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: In Europe?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I want to, before I want to, just because it’s one thing that I didn’t, that we didn’t mention, that has to do with your years in Germany. And I think you told me once that on the night of Kristallnacht…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …on November 9th, 1938…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah. I was there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …you were there, and you watched…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: The, the synagogue burning…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Your own, the synagogue…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …the Friedenstempel.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Tell us about that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=3837.0,3878.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBENYA:\u003c/strong\u003e Well it, it was horrible. I mean, what can I tell you? It was incredible. It was incredible. But as I said, I wasn’t so scared as I was shocked. I mean, everybody was. But I remember walking on Kuffer — I lived on Kufferstendamme, which was a beautiful, elegant street. And there was a beautiful store — I think it was Gruenfeld, or so on. And they were smashing the windows and the inside, all the cupboard, the glass doors. Young, the Hitler Youth, with the pokes. And the people were standing in the street, a big crowd watching. And somebody said, “It’s a shame to destroy property,” something like that. So they whispered it. But nobody touched anything. Nobody looted. You know, and I said, and I thought to myself, if this had happened in Lithuania or in Poland, the, the people would have helped themselves to it. But it was pretty scary. Pretty scary. And especially when I saw the, the, the prayer books being burned there, you know? And, and they threw them out, and they were still smoking, you know. And the Friedenstempel, that was Rabbi Prinz. You heard of Rabbi Prinz?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=3878.0,3967.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: It was his temple, then Rabbi Nussbaum was there. And I lived right on the corner there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And you stood and, you stood and watched?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And I was standing there, watching. And I picked up a, a smoking book. A prayer book. I wish I had brought it with me. But…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Did you know Gunter Hirschberg? He was the rabbi here at Rodeph Sholem?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I, no. Not personally.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Because he was, that was his…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah. Oh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …synagogue. Friedenstempel. I mean, when he was the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Friedenstempel?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: He was a worshipper there?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Oh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That’s where he was bar mitzvahed.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: I think Modred Lewandowski may have been the cantor there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I think so. But that’s where he had, but you never met him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Here in New York.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No. I know who the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: And Carl Noyman, also.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=3967.0,4009.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: I knew Prinz well. The rabbi, Joachim Prinz. And then also, I had the occasion to sing in Leipzig once, for the Zionist organization, where the Rabbi Nussbaum was the follower of Prinz. And he was a speaker, and was very handsome. And they used to call him the Crown Prince, because he took over.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Leipzig was just one performance? You didn’t sing…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No, it was just, no. A few times. I sang there once. I may even have a program with it, the program. It was the Mendelssohn Trio, they played on that program.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: It was a piano trio.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: The piano…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: The D-Minor Trio.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Was its…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …name. Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And they came later here. The pianist’s husband was my doctor. Herr Hitrick. And I appeared there. For the Zionist, I think for the Zionist organization.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But you didn’t get a chance to hear the famous Cantor Wilkomirsky in…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …in Leipzig?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I heard the son in Israel, in the opera.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=4009.0,4069.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Wilhelm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Wilkomirsky.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Avraham Wilkomirsky.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Avraham. I heard in La Bohème.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: How was that? How was he in Bohème?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He was very good.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: A serious voice?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He has a lovely voice. Avraham. A very nice, lyric voice. I remember that he tried to imitate Joseph Schmidt. That was the style of that, you know, Joseph Schmidt. I knew him in Berlin, too. I had met him. Not well. I met him in a kosher restaurant. And his girlfriend happened to be from Lithuania. A very pretty girl. And she introduced me to him. That was the only…. But he was an idol there. They, they were crazy about him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=4069.0,4114.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JUDY: Could I just go back to Kristallnacht just for a moment? How much longer did you spend in Germany after that? And what were…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No. The next day, I went home to say goodbye to my family for the last time, and so…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eJUDY: I wanted to know what your feelings, how you regarded these acts, in terms of your own future, and how it, it shaped your destiny?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Well, I already had my American visa. And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You mean, you were planning to come to America anyway?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes. I had the visa. I had a visa, an affidavit from my, my mother’s brother.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd I could have come earlier. But I had an opportunity to sing Gilda in Rigoletto in, in the October, October of ’38. So I didn’t want to miss that opportunity. I thought if I’ll have experience, they’ll grab me right away here. So I stayed until, as I say, after the November 9th, and I went home. And then I came back…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=4114.0,4172.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Home being back to Lithuania?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: To Lithuania.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eJUDY: And your family was intact there?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: They were there. They were there, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eJUDY: And then you left alone when…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And then…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eJUDY: …to come to America?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …then and then, two weeks after my visit, I went back to Berlin for one night. And then I went to Le Havre and took the boat. No, I went to Paris first for a few days. I had a friend. And the French liner, there was a, a strike, so they kept me. They paid for the hotel for extra for a few days, and I was, and they put me on another boat. And I came here on the, the 15th of December.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=4172.0,4213.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JUDY: And in terms of the people who watched, together with you, even poetically speaking, what was the feeling? How much did what was seen on the night of Kristallnacht mark decisions in people’s minds, in terms of where they must go and what they must do?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Well, everybody tried to leave, one way or another. Any place they could go. I had many students who studied Hebrew with me. They wanted…. Some people, they wanted to go to Palestina. I knew some people who said that would be the last place on Earth where we would go is to, to Palestine, in those days.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=4213.0,4253.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA: Why?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Because they were anti-Semites, anti-Semitic Jews. They didn’t…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: I know such people.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No, they — no. I know one of them was a surgeon and a very good musician. And we did, we made music together. And his wife sang, and we all belonged to a group. We used to get together in different homes occasionally and sing excerpts from operas. There was a mezzo and there was a tenor. People who were not in the profession, but they loved to sing. And this surgeon later came, he went to Shanghai and then he became, came here. And he was the doctor in Kindervelt one summer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=4253.0,4298.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: The summer camp? The children’s camp?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Listen to this. Yes. This German, he had been in the First World War. He was a big-shot. Then he became the official doctor of West Point. And he did, conducted the orchestra there, too. That was Dr. Marcuse. But he said the last place on Earth would be Palestina where he would go. But some people didn’t. I mean, study. They wanted to, to get out. Any place they could. And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: So when you came here, all right. Your primary experience, or your primary interest seemed to be opera.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=4298.0,4344.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That’s what you…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And I, the, some of my friends and colleagues came at that time, too. And we were taken under the wings of a lady by the name of Rhea Zilberta. One introduced the other; one brought in…. You, is the name familiar?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yes, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: She wrote…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: She wrote songs. She wrote songs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …songs. Yizkor, I think…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Right, right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Yahrzeitlech.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …is one of them. Yarzheitlech. Her name was Silberstein. And her father wrote the words to those — Silberstein. And she had, she was a very kind woman. She was a pianist and coach. And she took — in fact, she knew a lot of people in the music world. And she helped a lot of refugees. Suzanne, Susanna, at that time, her name was Suzanne Sten. Suzanne Taubman was, auditioned, received a contract with Columbia. And they arranged a beautiful concert for her in Town Hall, which was very successful. And she sang at the City Opera, too. Jon Hart was there in the studio.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=4344.0,4410.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Let me ask you about Jon Hart.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That was Pesakovich?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Pesakovich. That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Julius, Julius…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Julius, Julius Pesakovich.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Now, Pesakovich — I mean, his father was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: His father was the chief cantor…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …his father was J. Ben Pesakovich, from Frankfurt.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …in Frankfurt.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: (INAUDIBLE).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes. He came to this country afterwards.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: The father as well?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I, I met the father here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You met the father?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: So he survived? He saved himself.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He survived. Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: He saved himself.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: But the brother of Julius’ came first, and he changed his name to Hart. How he arrived at that name, I don’t know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You mean the son?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: The son — I mean, the brother, another son, besides the cantor. I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Ah-hah. But the one that I’m interested in, because he served…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …didn’t he serve in Berlin for a while as a cantor himself?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: He served as a cantor in Berlin, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: The son.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: But in a liberal synagogue.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=4410.0,4457.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: In a liberal. Now his name was really what? Julius?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Julius Pesakovich.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Pesakovich.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Paysakovich.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Paysakovich, yeah. And then came and he changed his name to Jon Hart.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Jon P. Hart.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And he wanted, he was interested, I think, in oratorio work, right?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He wasn’t…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: He was supposed to be very good.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Listen, Neil. I think I, if I’m not mistaken, I heard him together with Herman Yadlovka here. In the, in the big Philharmonique Auditorium in Berlin. Maybe it was Judas Maccabaeus or something. Or maybe — yes. I think it was in Judas. But he sang together that…\tThis was one of the last concerts that the Jews could have in, it was a Jewish concert.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=4457.0,4503.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: But in public concert?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: In a public concert hall. And then, as I say, he came here. And he was a cantor in Great Neck, I think.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: For a very short time, I think, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But he went to — you know, we tried to find him. Remember?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And you gave me some information, and you found…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …you knew some family members…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He died. He, he…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I came back from the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He, he gave up the concert, the hazzanut. He looked for to marry a rich lady, and he did marry a rich widow. With children. He was very happy with her, but she died of cancer. So he remarried another rich widow, but they didn’t get along so well. And they went to live in Lugarno. Not Lugarno.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=4503.0,4551.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: I think it was neither. Concorda.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: In another town.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Concorda.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Concorda. And this friend of mine, who lived, who did live in Lugarno, told me that he smoked, and all he did was play cards, and he was a very bitter man. And he, he committed suicide, really. He, by, by the kind of life that he led. He was very bitter. He was very unhappy, at the end of his…. He, he died — I don’t know what he died of.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Well, I don’t really…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: But I think of cancer or something.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: All I know is I got back a letter from the post office in Switzerland.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah, yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: In the corner with, stamped with a rubber stamp, gistorten.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But the question, of course, is what happened to his…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: To his music, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …to his music. Not so much his music. He didn’t compose anything. In fact, at least, he wasn’t known for that. But for his father’s music. I mean, because his…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …his father composed. I have some pieces from Pesakovich.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I have no idea.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Maybe the brother had it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: We used to meet, I know he was very friendly with the Vinawers here in New York. We would, and then, he was a wonderful singer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=4551.0,4611.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Are there any other family members who could be contacted?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He had a brother, as I say. I don’t know if, in, in Long Island someplace, who was, who had changed the name to Hart. See?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But they both — in other words, they both changed it to Hart here?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Well, he…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: He…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …the brother had changed it first. That’s why he followed.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I see. I see.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Probably. He was a wonderful musician. He played the piano very well, and he had a sense of humor. He could sit down at, at the piano and entertain you with whatever you wished. And he knew the, the German lieder literature. I even sometimes would take — not a lesson — but he would, he gave me, I remember, he was the first one who introduced me to the song Shabbos, Mein Shaleshudes. And he sang it for me. And he gave me such a wonderful lesson how to interpret, interpret it. And I really, I still remember it. He was a great musician. He had a beautiful voice. But he was a difficult person and very bitter, because he, he had great ambitions. I know when he was the cantor in Great Neck — and I happened to know the, I knew the, the man who put him there. He was some machutten of my children’s, my son’s wife’s uncle. And he told me what tsuris they had there with him. And he refused, he, they wanted him to teach bar mitzvahs, and he didn’t want to. He wasn’t grateful. I don’t know. Anyway, he didn’t, he wasn’t happy there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=4611.0,4715.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: You could say that about every cantor.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Some love it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: If they can’t sing.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah, some…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: He taught at the School of Sacred Music, and also…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: No, because — it’s too bad Danny isn’t here. He could tell that story, you know, about the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He taught at the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: He taught at School of Sacred Music.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: And according to the information they gave me from Great Neck, he served there for ten years. Now I don’t know if that’s misinformation, but that’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Really?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: …a, I got some information from Great Neck, from that synagogue.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Ooh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: And I have, I’ve heard some broadcasts that the School of Sacred Music presented, that he sang a Hanukkah program once…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: …and did a program once on…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I remember he had a beautiful voice.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=4715.0,4751.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA: Fine singer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He was a very, but…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Tell me something. Today, I can’t think of anyone who is, let’s say, you know, in the peak of his career or who, whose career is primarily, is first and foremost Yiddish song, in an artistic way. I mean, I think of people who sing beautiful Yiddish songs. But I’m talking about, that’s the, and I’m thinking of someone like Belarsky, who was known primarily…\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No, but he also sang with Toscanini. And he sang Russian. I mean…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And he sang Russian songs with Toscanini.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: With Toscanini. It was, it was a very fine performance. I mean…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: He sang, did he use his name there? Sure?\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes. He sang Orcore…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Sidor Belarsky?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …in the Fidelio.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And he gave a recital…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: (INAUDIBLE).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …and all that, in the, and you know, he sang with Peerce and as part of that crowd. But…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Peerce, Peerce was in it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah. Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And Joe, Rose Bampton, I think.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That’s right. That’s right. But nonetheless, the memory of Belarsky, the association is Yiddish artsong, isn’t it? Today, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=4751.0,4815.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Yes. Do, do you know that I, I would say I listen, I don’t know if you ever heard Solti’s last record.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Yes. With, with…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Very nice singing.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: He’s got a lot of songs by Heifetz on there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah. And this was very nicely sung. But he had no chance, with Belarsky around. And maybe it’s his personality, too. Sidor was a, a very good promoter too, which…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Relentless.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …which, his daughter inherited that. That talent…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah. Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …she did inherit.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But that’s another story.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Not the voice.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Well, you know, one of our colleagues, the executive vice president of one of the major cantorial organizations…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I don’t have any colleague who’s an executive vice president of any major cantorial…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …or minor cantorial…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Fine.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That’s definitely not my colleague.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: In any event, there was an article that the gentleman had written, relative to this particular subject that we’re referring to. And it was mentioned that at a certain point — perhaps 20 years ago — there was an array of individuals who specialized in Yiddish songs. Whereas at the time…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: …the time this article was written, he was lamenting that…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I know the article he wrote.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: There were…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That you’re referring to what the, he made the statement, what he said…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: There were many. There were, and, and much…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …doesn’t make much difference to me, but what he said was that Belarsky, that isn’t it a shame that there can’t be room, that even Sidor Belarsky, I think this is in there…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Correct.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …exactly. He was pointing out something — that there isn’t room — he’s very good at pointing out stuff. It’s not…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=4815.0,4905.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Who is it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …that he means it sincerely or anything, but…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Who is that, Barry?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …that on paper it looks good. But lamenting that even Belarsky, whose real devotion is Yiddish song, couldn’t survive, even. There wasn’t room for even one person in the world who could be exclusively devoted to Yiddish song and have parnosse from it, make a living from it. So therefore, he says, even Belarsky had to take, could only survive by taking a High Holiday position, for some very honorable sum of money, in Brazil.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …for the year. When he really is not a cantor, and he really shouldn’t have to do that, is the implication, you see. But right? Does that…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …sum up what the articles says?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: But there were other singers. I mean…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: But you’re saying that…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Well, you know, Victor Chankin was a different type. He was more of an entertainer. He, he appeared in costume, he did character songs. He didn’t do….I just pulled out his record, you know? He was a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Who is this?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=4905.0,4961.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Victor Chankin.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Victor Chankin.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Now, tell us about that. Because this is something…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Victor Hankin, he was very well-known in Europe. Even when I was in Lithuania, I heard about him. And I met him here, in fact, on Broadway, in the beginning, when I first came together with Henoch Kon and Sarah Golby. The three. He was a Russian Jew. And I know that Sol Meisels was his student. So, because he tried to emulate him, you know. He was very charming. He had a sweet, little voice. But he would sing character songs and act them out. When I first came here, I remember, he appeared in 9, at the 92nd Street Y. And I went to hear him, and I was very much impressed. He did all sorts of character songs, in the proper costume.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=4961.0,5014.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: What do you mean by — do you mean from shows?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: From, no. Folk songs. In Yiddish and in Russian.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd he was delicious. He was so charming, you know? There was a certain, a, I would call it a cabaret style, even, you know? There were people who would appear in costume and sing certain character songs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: All in Yiddish?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=5014.0,5041.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBENYA:\u003c/strong\u003e In Yiddish and, is, is at that time, I remember him in some, in some Ukrainian folk song, in a costume of the Ukraine, with the babushka here, with the, with that Russian blouse, or so. But he was so charming. He was wonderful. And as I say, I have, I bought a record of his. In different makeup and different costumes. On the, the picture on the cover is maybe six different characters. Which are so different from one another. That was Chankin. Then, Emma Schaver also wrote — sang — Emma Shaver sang in concerts, mostly for the Labor Zionist organization. Her husband was a member, and a very wealthy man. And, but she was the first one to go to the D.P. camps after the War. With Leivick and Efrat, with the Hebrew poet Efrat. And that was quite a historic event, you know, for the poor survivors to see a woman — she was very attractive. No matter how she sang. She sang, she had a voice. She studied. She studied seriously, but about, you know, one has more, certain attributes to, to make a success and so. \tBut she made recordings. Weiner published a book of ghetto songs that she had brought back with his arrangements, speaking of arrangements. Too many notes. Too many…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=5041.0,5141.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA: Do you remember Isa Kremer?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Oh, do I? Isa Kremer, of course I remember. I, I met her when I, when I first came here. I told you the story. A group of ladies who are, so far, financing a documentary on Isa Kremer. One of them is, they are from Chicago. You met her.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Yeah, I met one of them. She was lives on, near Northside.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Anybody I know?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: I forgot about it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Litker…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: I don’t know. She sang. She…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Mayer, Mayer…But, anyway, I heard her, as I say, in Berlin. She, she was brought in as a guest artist by the kulturbund. And she made an enormous impression, impression. She was charming. She was a personality. I believe that she was the first concert singer who brought the Yiddish folk song to the stage. I don’t know of any other singers who appeared in, in Europe. I remembered one singer came from Latvia to our shtetl. She was not Jewish, and she gave a recital of Yiddish songs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=5141.0,5206.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA: What about that famous Polish singing actress, Miriam Korda?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I don’t know about her.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: She sang Yiddish songs in Town Hall. Norwegian, French…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Really?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: …Hungarian, Tibet songs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Oh, I didn’t know that. No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But you didn’t know her?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No. But then I came, when I came here, a friend of mine knew a certain — maybe you even know the, the name — Rabbi Joshua Goldberg. He became the chaplain of the Navy, later. He was the rabbi in Astoria, Long Island. And he was a macher in the Zionist organization. So my friend told him about me. And he said, “We are having a banquet at the Commodore Hotel. And if you want to bring this girl who sings, she can sing a couple of songs. And if they’ll like her, the groups will, they’ll maybe engage her.” When I got here, I found that Isa Kremer was the artist for the evening. And she sang her repertoire. And she was very nice…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=5206.0,5270.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: What was her repertoire? Was it folk, mostly folk songs?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes. In different languages.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Well, not just Yiddish.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No. But Yiddish — I, I mean, she was very, very popular in the, in, amongst the Jews. She sang a lot of Yiddish.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Now, you said she came to the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: She sang Russian, and she sang in many languages. English.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Polish, Italian…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: English.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Gypsy songs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Gypsy songs. She was an opera singer, too.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: She said, she came to the, she came from Eastern Europe, somewhere. Poland or…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: She was from Bessarabia.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Bessarabia.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I think she was from, I think she was from the shtetl of Belz.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And she was the first — I think the song was written for her, even.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=5270.0,5305.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: No. That’s — no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: She, she was in…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: It was.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …in the theater, too.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: She was in that play. The play lasted about three or four weeks.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You’re talking about here in New York?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Here in New York.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Here in New York.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: She was in, that was the only time she was in the Yiddish theater.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But what about Seymour — the business — wasn’t it…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: She was in — and Yascha Perle, otherwise known as Jan Peerce.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Oh, that’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: And then the show, Peerce left and…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: …then Seymour came in, and then the show just closed up. But surviving from that show were the songs Mein Shtetl of Belz.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah. But it wasn’t sung by her.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: I think so.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: In the show?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: I think so.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Wasn’t it the male song?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: I’m not sure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I believe she sang the song. I believe it was written for her.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: I think the male sings the song Mirele.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Maybe. I don’t know. I don’t remember what he said. But in any event…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=5305.0,5345.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBENYA:\u003c/strong\u003e But that night, I, I remember my, my pièce de resistance used to be Shir Ha’roeh by Alman, with, with that cadenza. And I sang Machta Spoza Bim-Bom, and Say Ug’di. I had a little repertoire. And I may — and they liked it. And she was very nice to me. She was very gracious. And she said, “My dear, you belong on Broadway.” I didn’t know even what it meant, exactly, with…. But she was very nice. \tAnd then I heard her in another, I heard her years later, when she was already a little older — much older — and much heavier. And she was still, she was also acting when she sang, you know. She was doing a program, a number about a seamstress, and she would do that sewing without the instrument — implement.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=5345.0,5397.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And so, but it was absolutely charming.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: She — how long has she been gone, now?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I don’t know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Thirty years, maybe?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: A long time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah. She lived in South America. She died. She had remarried. I met her daughter recently. Very, very…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Where? Where does her daughter live?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: She lives in New Jersey. I told you that this lady from Chicago…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=5397.0,5421.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBENYA:\u003c/strong\u003e …who had heard, in her parents’ home, many records of Isa Kremer, decided — and was so impressed with it — and she is herself an actress, I think. She was an actress. And she decided to do a one-woman show about it. I don’t know. Anyway, she has a friend in Forest Hills, who called me. And we got together with Isabelle Belarsky.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBelarsky knew Isa Kremer very well, and her brother lived in the same building as the Belarskys. So we — Isabelle and the daughter and this lady from Forest Hills — we met at the Russian Tea Room. And the daughter told us fantastic stories about her mother. She sang for the Turkish sultan. And she was a very exuberant, beautiful, elegant, personable singer, really. She came out, she looked good. She always word a red — she had black hair, and she wore a red flower in her hair, and flashing white teeth. She was very impressive. She had a good voice. And…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=5421.0,5493.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: When…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …I wouldn’t say, though, that I tried to like imitate, imitate her when I sang. You know? I, I never thought of — somehow, you know…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …because when I used to go to recitals and hear Victoria De Los Angeles, and when Juliet Raskin and Yomgad Zifrit and Elizabeth Schwarzkopf, every time I came home, I would try — not very successfully — but do some things that they did with their faces, with their lips, with their voices.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: When, when…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Now, I’m confessing.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …when Isa Kremer came to Berlin and she sang in the Kulturbund, she was there, yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes. In the theater.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah. But she did folk song. She did Yiddish.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: In this…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: She sang Yiddish.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: In this, she sang in, I don’t remember, exactly, if she sang only Yiddish. It was, you, I looked recently at the book published by the Acadèmie de Kunster, and it says Internationale Zingeren. International singer. Because she, I know that she sang in many languages.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=5493.0,5561.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Of course, there’s a book I have of Isa Kremer of Yiddish songs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I have it, too…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You have that, too?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But those are not her compositions, are they?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No, they are folk songs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: All folk songs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And I know that Heifetz claimed — he played for her. He was her accompanist, and Ivan Bosilewsky, and also…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Did Bosilewsky work for you? Did you work with him?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I once appeared with him. Once.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: He used to accompany Sidor, also. Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Once. With Sidor. Together with Sidor. And I think that Paula Kavisson also played for Isa Kremer, you know. Paula Kavisson was her pianist. And so, Heifetz claimed that those were his piano a, arrangements. And he took her to court. But Mrs. Heifetz told me — not Mrs. Heifetz. Somebody else. This, these, these women who are interested in the documentary about her said that, that they won. That she, Isa Kremer won. She, he couldn’t prove that those were his arrangements, his accompaniments. Because she didn’t give him any credit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=5561.0,5637.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: That’s why. But she, she was a great singer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Another thing we were…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: A great artist.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Another thing we were talking about was Leo Low.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Tell us about that. You sang with him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I sang with him on many occasions. And in New York and in…. When he was going to give his very last concert in Town Hall, he came over personally to the Alamac Hotel and he rang from downstairs. And I went down, and he invited me to be his guest. I felt so honored. Unfortunately, he took sick that time, and Weiner took over part of the program, and Bugatch and, and Heifetz, maybe — I don’t know. But we did sing some of his compositions for solo and choir, and…. But I did sing with him in, I think, in Newark and in Trenton, in some of — his beautiful arrangement of the lullaby, you know, with his arrangement. (Sings some of it) You remember that? With a beautiful choir accompaniment. And also his cantata, Rosh Hashana La’Ilanote. I mean, it was in Yiddish, by Yehoesh, by the Yiddish poet Yehoesh, who was — I was born in the same shtetl as Yehoesh. That’s my fame, my claim to fame.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=5637.0,5727.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA: Virbalis?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Virbalis, yes. Vershbolova. You know, he translated the Tanakh into Yiddish.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And he was a wonderful — I was, there is a picture here, a photo of a group in the home of a certain Dr. Penn, where you find Leo Low there with his wife.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You mean Usher Penn?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You know who I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I, I knew, I know Usher Penn…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …and his wife. I know his wife, Sylvia.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And then his daughter.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah, the daughter, too.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: She did, you remember, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: The, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: But this was a Dr. Penn in Brooklyn, who had many of the — and Sidor Belarsky. And I remember, they took me to a Seder there. They used to be friends with all the, the art world. And so, there’s a picture — a wonderful, interesting photo there. And that, in that picture is Weiner and Naomi — Sarah Naomi — and Leo Low, and I think part of Sarah Golby face, and Kosakoff and his wife. We were all there. But…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Oh, yes. It’s very — we’ll come back to that. But…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=5727.0,5796.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: But see, with Lov, I loved to work with him. He was a wonderful, warm person. And he had a knack for telling musical jokes, anecdotes. I used to travel, you know, go by car, sometimes, to Newark, to rehearsals. And it was such fun. He was a very, very charming, very charming man. And when he died — he had no children, you know. And he, his relatives took everything from the apartment, except the music. Who picked up the music? Shmuel Bugatch. Bugatch called me. I mean, they said, “You can have it.” I mean, Bugatch was friends with Lov. So Bugatch called me up. He said — and Bugatch had a little house in, in the…\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Queens.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=5796.0,5851.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBENYA:\u003c/strong\u003e …the, in Kew Gardens Hills. He said, “If you want, you can come and pick anything you want to take. You can take,” he said, “anything you, you are interested in.” And I took, so I, I found some copies of music and transpositions from songs that I had, and I didn’t have. And, and then I found a bunch of photos about, that were connected — you know Bugatch — Lov — conducted the Farband Choir. They were sponsored by the Farband. The Farband, at that time, was a, quite an important and strong organization. And they…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=5851.0,5897.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA: Labor Zionists. That was Labor Zionism.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Labor Zionists. Yeah, they were affiliated with Labor Zionists.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd they, they were planning on doing something in memory of Lov in Israel — some archives, some open — I don’t know. Some, some department, department in the library. So I took all the photos and I took it over to the Farband office. There was photos from, from him personally, from concerts, and I…. But the Farband, you know, is no longer there, and I don’t know what became of the pictures and such. But I found also a big collection — a publication. It was a magazine that published in Warsaw, the Hazzanim Veldt — the World…. You know…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah, yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …about it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah, sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=5897.0,5950.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: So that I took, I gave to YIVO…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Well, that…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …at that time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …at least we have it. But, but…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: That was a wonderful…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …a big collection of, a big chunk, like a, a bundle.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah. That’s about right. The Hazzanim Veldt we have…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: The Hazzanim Veldt…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …we have it in many places. But the point is, but the music, it was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No, the music is…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …it was left with…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …but there was nowhere the original music, there were, that I found. There were no original compositions.\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But he did have original compositions…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He did.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …and arrangements, and all sorts of things.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Arrangements. I found, I found a lot of transpositions of songs for lower…. There was a copyist, I remember, an old lady who used to make copies by hand, transpose and copy music. I used her, too. And they were in her handwriting. But that was all that I had found. I mean, that I took. There may have been things that were of any value. I don’t know. But you know what happened to Bugatch’s…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=5950.0,6008.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Yeah, I know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …library?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: You know?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I wonder if it could still be…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: First, when the son, the Dr. Bugatch, left — sold — the, the house, he must have left all the music in the basement. Because…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That’s where it was. In the basement. Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …that’s what I heard.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: No, I saw it there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And then, the new tenant, who wasn’t, I, I believe he wasn’t even Jewish, thought something — music or so on? Jewish music — he, he gave it, it was a Rabbi Kirschbloom’s shul in those days. There was a famous Rabbi Kirschbloom. And they turned it over to the Y in Forest Hills.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That’s right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=6008.0,6052.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: And the Y turned it over to the Jewish Department. I don’t — that’s what I heard. Because I know that Lee Florsheim, I told it to Lee Florsheim there…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …the librarian. And she got in touch, she tried, she got in touch with Dr. Bugatch, with the son. But she could never get him to do anything. And I asked him, I spoke to him. So as far as I know, it may still be at Queens College. And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Why Queens College?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Maybe Joseph Landis — Professor Landis — may know something about it. He is, you know, the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah, but well, all right. Anyway, that’s another story. But…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I don’t know what…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah. There was a very famous kind of a badchan, Eliakum Zunser.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah. I have his, I have his…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You have, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …book. I have several books.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Were those songs ever sung, that you know of, here?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I think…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That’s what I want to know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I sang ShivaTzion. I think it’s on the record that Mlotek made, isn’t it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Amolets Kimeta Maysa?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: (Sings a little of it) But…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: He had a special Zunser program.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=6052.0,6124.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: …I know that we did a special program that you found on the tape, right? My mother used to sing it. I mean, it, they were very popular, some of those songs by Eliakum Zunser. And we, at, in the school, in, in the Gymnasium, we used to sing a song, aleima derech shama mitkolelet shoshanna hachlilat eyniyim. I, I was wrapped up in red crepe paper like a rose, and I sang it on the stage. (Sings a little of it). You, did you ever hear it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: It may be by…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I mean, I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …by Idelsohn, even.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: No, I don’t. I have the book, and, and…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=6124.0,6170.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: It may be. I don’t know if — and he wrote the melody, Zunser. But it’s, it was one, it’s a symbolic, you know, of the Jewish people, who are the Shoshanna that everybody, that rose that everybody steps on it, and, you know? But Zunser was very popular. I mean, and Mlotek — Joseph Mlotek — used to be in charge of the Workmen’s Circle radio program, years ago. And I was many times on the program with him. That record, Der Mose Gibben a Miser, was, resulted from, from that series.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I just want to clarify something. You were talking about Lov’s — is it Lov’s? — choral arrangement of Schluff, Mein Feygele?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Schluff, Mein Feygele, yes. And then, also, who…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But that’s a choral arrangement.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Choral, it’s a solo with choral…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: With chorus.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …accompaniment.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Do you know where — is that available?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I have it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=6170.0,6225.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Oh, you have it? Then it’s available. To me.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I have it. Yes. I also used to sing a song (sings a bit).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I know this.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And that song, I had a cousin who had a cousin in, who was married to the author of this song. And his name was Avram Eliyahu. Avram Eliyahu — oy! — what, I forgot the last name. But it…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That’s a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I, I told it to the Mloteks. They, they published it in their…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBut this was a man from Lithuania who was a talmid in the Telshe Yeshiva. And he wrote it. His, I don’t know if the name of Metz, or…. You wouldn’t know this. He’s a rabbinical dynasty from, from Slobodka. They were all, you know, related.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: No, I know about the famous Yeshiva in Slobodka that was there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes, yes. But…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And we both know some people who have had some s’mikhah from Slobodka.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=6225.0,6290.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA: Ginsburg?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes. But they, those were the, the families related.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But this song that you did — (hums some; Mascha joins him) — this is by…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: The, the arrangement is by Lov.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But it’s a folk song. Originally?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: It was written by — what — I’m so sorry. I forgot the last name.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: What’s the name of the song?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Chobgat a Momenyu. A, a, no. There is another…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Now, the Schluff, Mein, the reason I asked about Schluff, Mein, I’ll tell you why, is because…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes. Schluff, Mein….\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …that’s used, that has, I mean, the song is older. I mean, it’s a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: That’s a lullaby.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …19th century, it’s a lullaby. But it’s found on a couple of Holocaust-related recordings.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He, maybe they set, they, they adapted it with the different music to the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah, that’s what I have to check. And different words, you mean.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No. the same words.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: It’s not the melody.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: It’s that melody?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: It’s that (hums it). German, no. Schluff, Mein Feygele.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: (Sings it) That’s the one, that’s the one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=6290.0,6359.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: It’s, it’s sung. But so, I don’t know why, unless it’s an adaptation — I have to check it — an adaptation of words. But it would be.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I don’t know. I don’t know of any Holocaust…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: It’s not Holocaust-related…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …I don’t know of any Holocaust songs. But…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Unless it’s just designed to show Jewish life in…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Pre-Holocaust.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …pre-Holocaust in Europe or something. I have to check.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Oh, that’s possible.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I have an idea of something…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: It’s a lovely arrangement. Lovely. And, as I say, a beautiful arrangement for voice and chorus.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Did you know Jacob Weinberg at all?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I mean, you met — I know we talked before that you sang his…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I met him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …but now…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: In fact, he arranged a concert in Town Hall once. A big concert. And he asked me to sing the aria from Hechalutz. For nothing. And I got a better offer. No, really. And I cancelled. I cancelled out. And he pursued me. He used to come to the apartment. I had a furnished room, I lived in a furnished room, in those days. He was so insistent — persistent.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=6359.0,6437.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"JUDY: Did you sing the aria?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I think — he was after me and after me. I didn’t sing it. And I remember who did sing it. Margaret Cuzzins, who was Julius…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Chajes’ wife.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …Chajes’ wife. She finally sang it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Not the present wife?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: No, this was the second wife.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I mean, the present, not — the widow. Not the present…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: He had three wives.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Oh, he had a third one, too?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Now, who was the first wife?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Shulamit Zilber. My goodness.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: That was the first wife. Shulamit Zilber was the first wife.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: The second wife was Margaret Cuzzins.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I sang with Shulamit.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: And the third wife is the present, was the widow.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: The third wife is the one I know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Yeah, that’s the third one.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Who is the third?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: She lives in Detroit.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Oh, yeah? But Shulamit Zilber — incidentally, speaking of Shulamit Zilber, when I first came here, a friend of mine was, a certain Dr. Annelise Landau.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah, I know that name.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: With whom I traveled in Germany on tour in the Rhineland and in the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Didn’t she go to Australia or something? Is that the one?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: She died in Los Angeles a few years ago. She was a, quite an old lady. She was a musicologist.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=6437.0,6499.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: I know, I know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And when she came here, she was, she cleaned apartments. You know? And, but when, she also learned a little bit of English, and — during the war, she mastered enough English to give a little lecture. And she and I, Kurt Adler, who later was the concertmaster of the Met, of the Met, and a baritone, Stern…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Otto.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …Otto, Otto Stern, who was, who was the cantor at, in Montreal, at the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eJUDY: Temple Emanu-El?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …and from…. At Temple Emanu-El.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eJUDY: Temple Emanu-El.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: We were, we traveled, we were a group called, we traveled with a program called “Forbidden Music.” And you’ll find some…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah, let’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …some articles. In fact…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …let me…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Before we go into that, you mentioned Shulamit Zilber.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=6499.0,6557.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: And her brother…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: She was one of us. Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: …her brother was married to…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: To, to Bracha Zefira.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: To Bracha Zefira.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Bracha Zefira’s son is Ariel Zilber. He’s a pop singer in Israel.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Zilber, Zilber they call him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Zilber.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Zilber.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Today?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: She was a violinist. And we used to travel and give programs of “Forbidden Music,” for music that was forbidden…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Now…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …in Germany, because the composers were…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Who were the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …were not Aryans.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: In other words, Antartite Musik.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: It — pardon me?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Out of that group of…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Antartite Musik, more or less. And we got, we worked for the Red Cross. It was a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah, but in other words…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …patriotic…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …you’re talking about, it was a program called “Forbidden Music,” that was forbidden…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Forbidden…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …in Germany.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …forbidden in Germany, because the composers — we did Offenbach, I did some Yiddish, we sang Der Bakarolfe, we did…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But not only forbidden as Jews. Forbidden for other reasons.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Forbidden music because the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Jazz was included, too, in that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No. We did, I sang Summertime.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And Kurt Adler used to play The Capriccoff, by Mendelssohn.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: So there’s that whole exhibition, the Degenerate Music.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Degratit musik, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Degratit musik, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: But this was a program — we used to get five dollars, six dollars…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I mean, you could construct another program…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …a performance.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …called “Forbidden Music” — forbidden by Jews.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No. The music was forbidden in Nazi Germany.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah, I understand that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Because we were all like refugees.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Who were the ones who would forbid this music?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=6557.0,6639.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Well, we’re not going to go into that now. You could say, maybe, the best music. I don’t know. It depends on which Jews. You’ve got, the Hasidim forbids certain music because it’s secular, or — I could go on and on.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Or kol b’isha.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Anyway, we have here a lot of photographs from various eras. This was your accompanist, Rudy.\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And this was a friend of mine. He came to Berlin to study music — also singing. Yitzhak Hannon, from Palestina, from Israel.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: What happened to him?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He went to Mexico, later. I don’t know. And this is…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Here are some friends of ours that we all know. Sol and Ida Ruth Meisels. And he was, he attempted to be the yoraish…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Of Hankin.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Victor Hankin, right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: That’s right. And this is Stern again. Otto Stern…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He was a handsome, handsome man.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: As you just…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And then look…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: And here we are…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Emma Shaver.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: …we previously mentioned Emma Shaver, Emma Shaver.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: She looks a little bit like…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Do you know, Emma once had an interest in Hedotse Records.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Really? I didn’t know that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=6639.0,6696.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA: She was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: She looks like Joan Fontaine there, does she not?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Well, it’s a Bruno of Hollywood photograph, and he was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You’re suggesting that he photographed…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No, it’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …every woman so she looked like Joan Fontaine?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: (INAUDIBLE).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: And then, here is a photograph of Emma, taken by Maurice Seymour. You know, Maurice Seymour was one of the great photographers in Chicago. There was nobody named Maurice Seymour. There were two brothers — one named Maurice; one named Seymour. And so they both operated under the same name.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Here’s Emma again.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Emma, Emma. Does she have a glamorous photograph there? Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And there’s Simon Bermanis, who became, old, came from, he is from Riga. And he studied in Vienna and he came here and became a hazzan.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And here I am with…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Wait — I’m sorry. What was his name?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Bermanis.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Simon Bermanis.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Oh, that’s right. He’s in California, he’s in California.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He’s in California.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=6696.0,6745.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: He’s in, not far from, in the Los Angeles area.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He’s in San…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I can’t remember the name of…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No. San Diego there, even…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Somewhere, I’ll think of it in a second.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …in there around, is this…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: And so, who do we have here?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: He was, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: This is Greta Bingelyoung and Mr. Bingelyoung, Brucha Kopstein and Drora Lopsman and myself.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: She was a poet. Brucha Kopstein, right?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes. She’s still in Israel. And Drora Lopsman was a dancer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And that’s myself.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Bingelyoung…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: There was some music recently on the poems of Brucha Kopstein.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Yeah, that’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: She published a book of lullabies. Of Yiddish lullabies with the music, you know?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: February 25th, 1951…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I didn’t know that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: …in Calgary, Alberta. This is you.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes. I think Esther Shumiatcher took the, the pictures. Here is another one.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And here is a, a rehearsal of, from Berlin.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: This is Evelyn Annik at the piano. And this was a friend of ours…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: All right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …who was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Evelyn Annik was your pianist, as was Harry Annik, at one point.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=6745.0,6800.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: I was doing the aria from La Bohème, this is.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Okay. And what is this?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: This is also from Montreal. Histadrut, I think…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Histadrut.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …are very strong.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And here is also Meisel and…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …Ida. And this is…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Now, this is a very famous picture.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Right. This is from, from the cast of, of the conductor, conductor of Hechalutz. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: And this is Vinover over here, right?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Vinover. That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: This is from Berlin, right?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: From Hechalutz. From Berlin, right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And that’s a picture from it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: And here is a picture…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: From…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: …from the performance…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …from…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: …of the, from the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …from the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: …with Vinover conducting.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah. With the orchestra.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Where was that performed?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: In Berlin.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: In Berlin.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: In a public hall?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: In ’38, in a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: In a synagogue.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Oh, in a synagogue in ‘38.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …in a synagogue. Prinzregentenstrasse.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I, when I first came here, you know, there were organizations that tried to help refugee artists. So the, one of them sent, sent us to Lake Spofford. There was a Jewish hotel. American-Jewish. And I went there the first year with a pianist. Leta Zultan was her name. They had, you know, one year, their emcee was Carl Reiner.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=6800.0,6863.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: You know? And, and Rob, the, the boy, was a baby, at that time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Here’s a, you were performing with Joseph Buloff?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Who was Mr. Buloff?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: You don’t know who is, Joseph Buloff is?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: I know, but you might as well tell us on video.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Oh. Joseph Buloff was a great, a star in the Yiddish and, and Broadway theater.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: And on television.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And on television. And his wife just wrote — not just, but she wrote — a very interesting book about, about the, him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Here is a performance that took place in Chicago.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: At the Dolnick Center.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Mmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: The Dolnick Center?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: The Dolnick Center. 1964.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Uh-huh. Look what the postage was at that time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Yeah? All right. Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Twelve cents.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Yeah, okay. Now…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Five cents.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Right. Let’s see what we have here. “Musical evening featuring Moshe Koussevitsky and Mascha Benya and then Jacob Friedman.” I think he was the cantor of the synagogue in Washington, D.C.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=6863.0,6913.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: No, it was Baltimore, I thought.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Baltimore?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I believe.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Okay. Well, it’s not far. Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Jack Barash played for us that time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: How was Jack Barash as a pianist?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Nice man and sometimes — uh, a little, he lacked a little…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Fire.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He didn’t have, he was not like Gelder. No. He was very nice and willing and…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But for improvising?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …he liked to work. Yes, yes. But there was — I don’t know. He didn’t seem to…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Oh, you know, while we’re looking, I meant to ask you about Kosakoff, Reuven Kosakoff. But it reminds me now, because he was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Very nice.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: How was he as a pianist?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Not for me. When, when he played for me, I sang on the, in Brooklyn, together with David Koussevitsky. I wasn’t so happy, you know. I don’t know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=6913.0,6968.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: He claimed…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: For me, he…. Here, this is…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …he could play anything, in any key.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …Henry Greenfield, there. The manager…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Oh, Henry Greenfield…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …from WEVD.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Does this come out? Does this open up?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Oh, yes. Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: What? I’m sorry.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: He claimed he could play anything, in any key. He could transpose even the most difficult music without…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes, yes. But as an accompanist, you know, there is a special quality that you have to — like Gelder does with the, he breathes with a singer. \u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: And here’s a notice for your concert tour — western tour — through western Canada. Five concerts in March of whatever this year was. It doesn’t say what year.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Mascha, did you have a manager?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You never had a manager?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Oh, this is an interesting picture.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Wait, before you — hold. Take it down and show it to me later.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No, occasionally…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: How did you…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …an agent would call me. Occasionally.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But who negotiated your fees and your this?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: That’s why I got such big fees. Because I was the…. And, you know, I had rachmones, or something like that. This, you know that there is a Peretz Square downtown, someplace between First and, and, and Second Avenue?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=6968.0,7031.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: All the way downtown.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Right, right, right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And when it, when it was dedicated, dedicated, I was singing outside — outdoors — with a coat on, and Weiner accompanied me. And Robert Wagner was the Deputy…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Mayor.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …Mayor at that time. And that’s the picture.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Oh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: You see, with the coat and so on?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Okay. Here we are. Now, now…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Oh. This is…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: …now we’re dealing with the real celebrities. This is the, these are the real celebrities.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: This is a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Okay. Here we have, it says, “Perele Feig, Samuel P. Mogilevsky, Chatzkele Ritter, Mascha Benya and Joel Feig,” all right? It’s taken in front of a radio station in Brooklyn.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And Perele Feig was — you knew her?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: She was a hazzan.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah. She…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah. Here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: There you are, with Perele Feig.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: She was very good.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Not in costume. This is how Perele looked when she wasn’t in…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: She was a, she was very good.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: This is Harry Annik.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Harry Annik. You were once going to make a recording with Harry Annik, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=7031.0,7088.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Well, those were — yes. Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: What was the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …he was a composer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: …story with your recording career?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Ach, don’t ask me.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: We asked already. It’s too late.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: It’s too painful. No, no. I always…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Who was Abe Lyman?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Abe Lyman ran a radio station. He was an announcer and he was also a producer of records.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: He had a station, WBNX.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Sometimes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Ran Jewish programming the Bronx.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes. That’s right. A nice, nice man. And, and he was going to produce the record. So we already, we rehearsed and rehearsed.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Here’s your accompanist, Harry.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And I always felt, it’s not good enough.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Harry Annick.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: To me, it was still not good enough. But we did already go to the studio and we made the, the — first, we ran the first record. In those days there was no tapes. We had to make…. And then Lyman died and then Annik died. And I’m still here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=7088.0,7140.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA: Well, I’m glad you’re still here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No, no, really. The tapes, some of the tapes we, we tried out on a, on a tape recorder in my room. One of the tape recorders, the first one that I had bought. A big Pentron. And fortunately, I had something. This was from a camp seminar in Chelsea, Michigan, which I used to go to. The, it was very interesting. The Farband in the Middle West used to run a children’s camp. And when the children went home at the end of the summer, the adults from those towns — Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, Akron, Toledo — used to get together for a week and invite two lecturers, one in Yiddish and one in Hebrew. Very fine lecturers. And a singer and an actor. For the whole week, and...we had to perform, starting Sunday was the opening, every day in the morning, in the evening, in a very primitive casino, where when it rained, we couldn’t be heard. The rain was hitting on the, on the roof. And I spent many summers there. I mean, many weeks, with the greatest Yiddish writers and professors.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: This was at — when you say the Farband, you mean the Labor Zionist Farband?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But they still had Yiddish?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: They had, of course.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: A Yiddish lecturer?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yiddish, and they had one Yiddish…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And one Hebrew.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …Chaim Grada was there. Ephraim Auerbach, Professor — uh, Shlomo Bikel. You name it — Professor Kosovel. And you know, it was so wonderful. I remember…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Where — I’m sorry.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Where was this?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: This was in Chelsea, Michigan. In Chelsea, Michigan. Outside — not far from Detroit. Not far from Ann Arbor.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=7140.0,7259.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: But this is, I mean, here is a little, tiny chapter, or a small chapter — whatever — of American-Jewish culture…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: There was one man…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …that nobody knows about.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …one man, by the name of Mr. Zimmel — Chava Zimmel. He started the whole thing. He was from Pittsburgh, I think. People came from Pittsburgh. There was one apartment, one building that was called a motel that was halfway decent. Otherwise, plain. You know, like children have those…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Cabins.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …summer cabins.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=7259.0,7288.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBENYA:\u003c/strong\u003e Cabins. And no, no plumbing, no nothing. But the atmosphere was incredible. So every year, I had — and I had to have enough repertoire for the entire week, you know? And for so many years, one after the other, I went with….I was there with Dina Halperin one summer. And poor Dina. She was doing a scene, and the rain came down and started, on the stage, on her costume. You know? It was very primitive. And one year — they would start Sunday, in the dining room. The piano was broken. Some keys were missing. But, but the spirit was there. So I was looking for something new to sing. Something. And they loved, they loved Hasidic songs. They loved niggunim, they loved — I used to sing Mei Itron, you know. And Hebrew songs…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=7288.0,7353.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA: Why don’t you tell about, what is Mei Itron?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Mei Itron, Mei Itron?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: What kind of song is Mei Itron?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: That’s from the Musar, Musar Yeshiva. And that I sang on the tape, on the late, latest tape that Barry made. And, but so I found, I had the Chabad, the Lubavitch put out a, some books Sefer Haniggunim. And I found a wonderful Yiddish love song there. A love song that — written by a Hasidic rebbe.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: How did it slip into the book?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And the love is between the Knesset Yisrael…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Oh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=7353.0,7389.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBENYA:\u003c/strong\u003e …and the ribbono shel Olam. But it’s such a gorgeous song that I took, I learned it, and I had an arrangement — a piano arrangement — made. And I sang it and it made a hit. The next day, I don’t know if you ever knew of Motre, Dr. Motre Kosover was a professor at Queens, at Brooklyn College. He also wrote a book of, about Jewish dishes, Yiddishe mei cholim, you know. No, he was a wonderful lecturer. And his brother happened to be my teacher of tanakh in the school where I went to. That’s a different story. So the next morning, he said that somebody came from, back from Israel, from a Kinnusse Hasidi, and he sang a song which he liked. And the song went, fun Kosev biskitiv (sings a bit of it). It was so beautiful. Then there is a, a, a Veldele Faranen. And then there is set a Faygele Faranen, with the Baal Shem, lehrnen shir ist gigagen. And I took the piece of paper, and I drew the lines there, and I wrote down the melody and the words. And in the evening, I, my pianist and I gave a performance of that song. And the people were, sang along, and it became one of the biggest hits. Sidor recorded it later. Everybody said, was saying, you know, it was really an, an unusual inspiration to sing there, you know, in those days. And it used to be like that also here in Unzer Camp and in Camp Boiberik.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=7389.0,7519.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Which were…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Which were, Boiberik was, belonged to the Sholem Aleichem Institute.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Right. And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: They were, they were not Zionists, they were not, they were…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: They were…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …traditionalists, a little bit. They were more secular, you know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah, there was a Sholem Aleichem…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: But they were…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …one of their schools was in Chicago.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …Sholem Aleichem Institute, they had schools.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And they had the philosophy, tradition, and not…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: It was a network.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …not necessarily… it was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: A network of schools and camps.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Networks of schools…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And what was the other camp?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …and publications. Books — they published books. But they are — Leibush Lehrer was the director. And he was a philosopher, and he was a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I don’t think there’s any more, is there?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: No. Sholem Aleichem.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Nobody — even 20 years ago…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No, nothing.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …there was still one or two.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No, nothing, nothing.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And what was the other camp you mentioned?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Unzer Camp.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Unzer Camp was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Who was that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=7519.0,7568.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Unzer Camp was the Poalists, and the Labor Zionists. Had a wonderful camp. They had a staff for the whole summer. But occasionally, they would engage guests — everybody — artists. I mean, writers, singers, actors. The actors, they had a staff, they had an orchestra there for the whole summer, like the Workmen’s Circle camp, too. I know they had a music director.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Workmen’s Circle camps were called Kinderring, right?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Well, Kinderring…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Or, or Kinderlin.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …was the children’s camp.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And Kindervelt was the children’s camp of the Labor Zionists, was Kindervelt. But there was also, the leftists had a Kinderland.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That’s it. That’s it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=7568.0,7617.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: And that was something. On the other side of the lake.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: On the left side of the lake.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: On the left side of the lake.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: You know? On the other — no, no. There were two camps, on both sides.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Oh, really?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: You know, one was the leftists and the other one was the Labor Zionists.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd they had, besides, they used to have private members. Some members who could afford it would build cottages on the outskirts of the camp, and come to the performances. And they would — Ranana is one of those summer places that was outside of Farband.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Did you ever go to the colony — Ganna Felder, is it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes, I think I was there. Yeah, Weiner used to…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Weiner used to go there every summer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Even until the last year, even.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Ganna Felder.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: It’s still…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Ganna was also at Mohegan.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: There was also a lot of Jewish life, active life. I sang there. They, they had different places there — Mohegan, around Mohegan.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=7617.0,7679.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Let’s see if there’s any…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Let’s see what else we have here. What is this? Who is this?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Evelyn Annik.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Evelyn Annik.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: That’s the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: The accompanist.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: The wife of Harry.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And the wife of Harry. This was a picture with Hannon before we went on tour. Welichansky and Rita Karpinovich, Rita Karin — who died so young — and Paula Kavisson and myself. And the, Hannon was the education director of the Workmen’s Circle, in those days.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Okay. Now let’s see.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And here, I was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Who do we have here?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: What’s that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Who is this?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: This was a pianist from Vienna. Hatchik, with whom, he was a friend of Bermanis’. And we… oh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Mascha, you don’t have any of these labeled on the back.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Some.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No. Some…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Most aren’t. You have to go and make sure they’re all labeled.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: This was some banquet. I don’t know — and here I am, with a hat.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=7679.0,7734.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA: Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I haven’t the, I forgot. I don’t know if it’s in one of the albums. A picture, when Zalman Shneour came…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Put these back in the plastic, because they’ll fall out when you…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Hmm? We’ll have to put them back together, you know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Well, they’ll run.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: After we get through with our videotaping, we’ll backtrack and put everything in order. Okay. Here we have, it looks like some people that we should know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Oh, this is interesting. Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Who do we have here?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: With this, we have on one side is Bugatch; on the other side is Michael Gelbart. And I am in the middle.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I didn’t know you knew — I would have asked you about Michael Gelbart.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=7734.0,7770.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Yeah, oh. I worked a lot with him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: He came, he was here? In New York?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes. He lived in New York. In the Bronx. And he was connected with the Workmen’s Circle. I made a record with him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah, his songs, would you consider those art songs, any of them? Or it’s not folk songs…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …it’s not art songs. It’s nishte hayn, nishte zhayn.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No. No. Not, not, they are not art songs. They are volks stinglecher songs, by a composer. But he had a knack for, for melody. Sometimes….Oh, here is… with Mlotek, when they presented me with an award.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: The Workmen’s Circle.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Should we look through some additional clippings, or…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Well, just five minutes is all I want to spend.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Five minutes. Well, we’ll see what we can do in five minutes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: How about some clippings?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Can I take this?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Just sort of…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Clippings, you know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …just randomly…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: We’ll put it back together in a few minutes. Okay. Here we have clippings. These are from…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: From…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: …Germany.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …Germany, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Thirty seven.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=7770.0,7827.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: I guess they’re reviews of your classical performances.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: This one, no. That’s at Follies Berliner. (Yiddish). That was the Zionist organization.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And here are from, here is a concert in the house, a house concert. And here are the, the, are there songs by Kowalski there?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: You listed three lieder by Kowalski.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And two arias from Turandot.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Turandot. You’re singing from Engel, from Alman. And you’re singing Debussy and Liszt.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I? No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Well, let’s see.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I didn’t sing it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Mascha, Kowalski was a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I knew him. I met him, I met here, a brother of his.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But he was active in Berlin?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah. And his, but his songs were in German?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=7827.0,7875.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Yes. I, I don’t have them. I don’t remember one note. In fact, when I sang If I Were King that I mentioned, in Wernisch Kurnisch Vayer, from, I don’t remember one note. Just one little tune from, that occurs in the, in the overture, too.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I was thinking of including some Kowalski songs on the German programs. That’s why I’m asking you.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Ah, yeah. No. But they may — I had met his brother some years ago in, in Queens. But I don’t know if he’s alive or not.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Probably not.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Here we have reviews of a Hebrew and Yiddish song performance.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: That, that, that was from my appearance in Kovna, over the radio.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Here in…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: An announcement.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: …1937.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Was there such a thing in the Kulturbund as reviews? I mean, were there critics?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=7875.0,7933.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Oh, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: All right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Those are…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: So where did they come…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: These are from…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Oh, these are from those papers.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah, these are…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Yeah. These are from the Jewish paper.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That’s what I’m going to ask. What kind of paper was it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: By Oscar Guttmann, and by Schoenberg, and…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Jacob Schoenberg.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Jacob Schoenberg.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But where did they publish these reviews? Not in the general newspapers.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: They had the Jüdische Rundschau…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: All, all through the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …which was the Zionist, very important paper.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah. Eric Werner published some little small articles in the Rundschau.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And Vinover. Vinover used to have a Jüdische Zingblat. He would write an article and notes, print about Jewish songs, Hasidic melodies. And I, I think that I still have some of the clippings.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I gave it to YIVO. I gave it to YIVO. But I don’t remember if I made copies for myself or not, you know? But that was the Jüdische one. Children, there was Familian Blat. Then there was the Reformed — Bitsig Fur Zeitung.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=7933.0,7994.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: That went all the way up through to 193 — what? — 8 or so?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: It went to 1941. Till the war, during the war.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: They published all the way. All those…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Ah, that’s — the papers, I don’t know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: The papers, I’m talking about.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I don’t know. I know the editor of the Jüdische Rundschau went to England. And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Did you know…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Robert Varich was his…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Did you know what was his name? Hans Jacobson. Hans John, in Berlin, who was a singer. He was a cantor and a singer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Hans John Jacobson.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Hans John Jacobson — was that anyone you know?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Oh, maybe he was in…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Wasn’t he in the Hechalutz?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …in the, in, in Hechalutz.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: There is a Jacob, Jacobson there in Hechalutz.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: That must…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Maybe that’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: That must have been him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That’s the one.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: That’s the one.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: We wanted the name, because he was in the big — you know, was it at Rigenstrasse? What was the big Reform — not the Liberale, but outside the Gemainder. Big Reform, pretty right-wing, pretty — I don’t what…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=7994.0,8051.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: Tezanestrasse?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: No, no. Much more Reform than that. You know what I’m talking about. The one where…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Prinzeregetten?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: I don’t know the name of the synagogue, either.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: The one where Schmidt…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Schildberger, where Schildberger was the director…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: The one where Schmidt… I don’t know. But the one where Joseph Schmidt made the recording of the Deutsche…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: That’s the Reform Gemainder.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: I don’t know what street it was on.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But that’s, there were…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: This was my teacher.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Jacobson.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And these were just, this is in the, in the dressing room, in the mirror, mirror. And this is backstage, waiting to get on.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Did you know any of the — like Paul Lichtenstein? Who was an organist in Berlin. Or how about Leo Golanin?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah, I did. I didn’t know him. He was a singer, right?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: He was a cantor. And a singer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: A cantor, a singer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Yes, you are correct. Hans John Jacobson.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I heard about him. About him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Right?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: He’s right here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: There you go.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Which one is Hans John…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: This one.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: There we are.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I heard a story — oh, no. But…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Golanin, sure. I heard of…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Leo Golanin.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah. I heard of the name. But I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: He was a big one. One of the big…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …the big, one of the main…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: But I know, you know, whom I had met in, in Berlin? William Soller.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=8051.0,8119.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah. He was a young student. He studied with a, a teacher whose name, the teacher’s name was Diamant — Diamond.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Well, that’s another — Jacob Diamant.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Jacob Diamant.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Diamant.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Diamant. Yeah. That was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Did you ever, did you know him at all?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: He had a, he wrote a service. Did you ever hear that service that he wrote?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Because it was even reviewed in Berlin, in the — but this was before Hitler.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: That was Diamond. And then the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Before Hitler. But…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …Wilhelm, Wilhelm Zoyler…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …came here and I met him on Broadway the first time, and…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: What about Magnus Davidson? Did you ever hear him sing in Berlin?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Who else? Oh, Sereni.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Sereni was deceased.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=8119.0,8155.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Oh, before then?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No, there was a singer…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: There was a Sereni who was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: There was an Israeli, there was a singer from Habima who relate, who sang in the opera. Goland, I think. Goland.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Golo?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Pardon? No, Goland. Paul Goland.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: He I heard him. Knew him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: I think we want to kind of wrap this up.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: Okay. All right? Shall we? What shall we do?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Unless there’s anything specific that…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: I don’t know. We’d have to go through and…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: No, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA: …see what’s what.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Mascha, though, I’ve got to tell you, the clippings, to a certain degree, are self-explanatory.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But the photographs, you’ve got to take some evenings and take a pencil and write down on the back who is who and what is what. I have to do the same thing. Every family…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=8155.0,8198.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010/transcript/25051/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BENYA: I know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …has to do the same thing. But some people, but you know, it’s like I already have — I mean, this is nothing to do with — I see this all the time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I know, I know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You have to make a hobby out of it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Sometimes I do, I have a collection of photos and…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And you don’t know…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: …I don’t know who they are.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Sure. I have pictures with my father standing with four people. I don’t know who the other four people are, because he didn’t label them at the time. Families have the same problem. But you, as a celebrity, and you, as standing together with other people and…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Well, I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …what the occasion was. You should do this, you know, just for your own pleasure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: I’ll tell you the truth. I don’t remember their names anymore.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: You remember enough. Ninety percent you remembered right now. Ninety-eight percent. Come on.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: No, really, because there were some people I don’t remember their names.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: If you don’t remember, then you…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: And there is nobody around to ask.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: That’s okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Unfortunately.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Then, you say, “unidentified, third from the left unidentified.” But most of it you do remember.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: It’s wonderful.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Okay. Nichtsha yarahif the next time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: For yourself.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Yes. You are right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Mascha, thanks for coming. It was wonderful.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Thank you.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Wonderful to see you again.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBENYA: Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40377/file/112010#t=8198.0,8275.54133"}]}]}]}