{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/cf9j38m23d/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Sharlin, William"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","metadata":[],"provider":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/111/934/small/Sharlin.jpg?1622114866","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - 13085_William_Sharlin.mp4"]},"duration":4637.73867,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/111/934/small/Sharlin.jpg?1622114866","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-milken.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/111/934/original/13085_William_Sharlin.mp4?1619691273","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":4637.73867,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["William Sharlin transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Cantor Sharlin, you’ve been in Los Angeles for a very long time.  You, I would say, have — at least to me — represented Jewish music in Los Angeles, not only from the cantorial world, but the Reform, and other aspects of Los Angeles synagogue work.  To me, since I was involved at all in synagogue music.  But you’re actually not a native of Los Angeles.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=17.0,44.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  No, I, I’ve been here 50 years.  Almost 50 years.  That’s right.  But, and I was born in New York City, and — but I lived in many places.  I have lived in Jerusalem for a number of years.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Even before it was Israel?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=44.0,60.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Before it was Israel.  1935 to ’39.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Was that your family?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah, that was because my family, to begin with, were, were born in Palestine.  My father was born in, in Jerusalem.  My mother was born in Hebron.  And they came here, they ended up here in the States.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=60.0,80.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, at one point, my father lost just about everything he had, in the late ’20s, ‘30s.  And we, the entire family moved there, planning to settle.  And tragically, my mother died shortly, and, from then on, one by one, the rest of my family began to return to the States.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=80.0,104.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so, I was the last one to return.  I wasn’t sure whether I wanted to, to go back or not.  But I did.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And then you, well, you even have a yeshiva background, I see.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  I have a yeshiva background, because my family background was Orthodox.  But not the black hat Orthodox.  But they’re, I would call them normative, strict Orthodox.  And that’s the way I was brought up with.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=104.0,132.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e You knew you were going to be a singer from an early age, or…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=132.0,159.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSHARLIN:\u003c/strong\u003e No.  Actually, no way.  I, I enjoyed singing.  I was a natural musical.  Yeah, we had a piano in the house when I was nine and ten, and I just went to the piano and read music, learned to read music all by myself.  I mean, I learned all about music all by myself, without having any teachings.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=159.0,182.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I used to do, I used to arrange four-part, improvise four-part music on Shabbat with my two brothers and sister.  So, we used to do, I, I would just do the normal harmonization of tones for them.  That was my early experience.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=182.0,204.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But as a singer?  No, I, I had a, a pleasant, you know, non-professional voice, but…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Did you sing in a choir at all, in synagogue, ever?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  No, I never, no.  The only time I sang in a choir was when I needed to make a few dollars going up to the Catskills.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Do you remember that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Do you know who conducted for those?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=204.0,228.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Well, one of the Barish brothers.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Jack.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Jack.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, or Morris?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  Yes, Jack Barish.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Was it Morris?  Morris was the one.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  No, no, not Morris.  But Jack.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=228.0,237.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  He conducted?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Jack was the one.  He had, we had a quartet.  And I forget who the hazzan was.  We were there for Pesach…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Mmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  …and some other occasions.  And we did some unusual music, in those days.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What kind of music?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  All kinds of music, including, lo and behold, when we did the kiddushe — do you want to hear the kiddushe for mussaf?  And I looked at the score in front of me, and lo and behold, what is it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Traviata.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=237.0,264.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  (Sings a little of it) Et cetera, et cetera.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I must tell you, I never heard that one before.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, I never heard Mozart.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  I wish I had a copy of that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But I’m surprised.  Jack Barish was a good pianist.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=264.0,284.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSHARLIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.  Oh, sure.  Oh, sure.  But this was the world — they wanted….  You know, we, we Jews were not, did not have that skill, to create grand music.  We, our music ability was limited to inward, to the small forum.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=284.0,315.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But when they needed something quick, what do you do?  You just take, open up all kinds of scores, and you just adapt the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\tSHARLIN:  …the liturgical text to that.  That was the nature of things.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You didn’t see him do it with Oscar Julius.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=315.0,331.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  He has to do that.  But the, the congregations, the, the point is that the congregations never knew.  And, you know, that’s the old story.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  What you, what you don’t know won’t hurt you.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  They probably thought it was traditional, and then, if the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  That’s right.  Oh, what, what is considered traditional is, is wild.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=331.0,348.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Very often.  It could be six months old, and, it’s traditional.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But then, you went to a conservatory, at Manhattan School of Music.  Again, it wasn’t for voice.  It was for…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=348.0,363.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  No.  It was for — piano and composition is what I focused on at the Manhattan School of Music.  And I worked for a master’s, finally got a master’s degree, and, and a bachelor’s at the same time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So, when did you decide to go to the newly opened cantorial school?  Was that the first year, by the way, of the school?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=363.0,387.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  It was the second year.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Second year.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  It had opened in the year before.  But I, what happened is that I entered into the second year program.  Because of my background, my language.  I mean, I had, I had…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tLEVIN:  You knew Hebrew.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  I, I, I, oh, my goodness.  I, I’m a Hebraist.  You know, when you’ve studied in the yeshiva for most of a youth, until I was 18, 19, you know the language.  I knew the language when I was 13.  And, of course, my musical training….","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=387.0,420.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I, at first, I was planning to teach.  Teach college, university.  And I did some teaching at the Manhattan School of Music, and I really, I didn’t particularly enjoy it.  It was not stimulating, to teach classes in theory, and stuff, for students that just needed to grind through a, a course.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=420.0,442.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Jewish centers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=442.0,461.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Yeah.  And that sort of struck an interesting…  And, that I’d take on a position like that.  And I’d be able to do a variety of things.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tAnd, since I needed a little more background, I entered the School of Sacred Music.  And they put me in the second, in the second year.  So I, I, I could, I needed only a couple of years.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And so, you had exposure then, to people like Alter, Binder?  Were they there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=461.0,493.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Oh, yeah, Binder, of course.  Alter was, no, not there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Not yet?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  He came on later.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Moshe Ganchoff?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Ganchoff, of course.  I used to work with Ganchoff quite a bit.  I used to help him notate, and maybe do a little arranging for him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Mmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  Avrum Shapiro.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Mmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  He was a, a superb teacher.  He influenced me, in terms of teaching.  He had the ability to seek out value in the simplest piece of nusaḥ.  And to make it alive.  Make it worth listening to.  Not simply because it’s nusaḥ, you know.  You had to, to sing the nusaḥ.  Big deal.  But he’d make it live.  He was the finest.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=493.0,538.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, of course, he was a great singer.  A remarkable person.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBut I heard, in, in my youth, I’ve heard hazzanim.  And I was always moved.  You know, as a child.  I was always moved by the hazzanim.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tAnd I met, I’ll never forget the time my father took me to hear Arele Diamond, when he, the, at the young, a youngster.  Did a concert with a choir.  I was, it threw me.  It was so fantastic.  I was so moved by it.  But that was it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=538.0,569.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But there I, there I was, in Manhattan School of Music.  And Eric Werner, because of my background — and I, I did some musicological work at, at Manhattan School of Music.  He, I became his, he became my mentor, and I, and he, when I, we grad, when I graduated, he worked a fellowship at Hebrew Union College.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=569.0,597.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I had a three-year fellowship there.  I was music director, and took the courses, working for a Ph.D.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  In Cincinnati?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  In Cincinnati.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, so, you were there for three years?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  I was there for three years.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And you worked with Werner directly?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah, yeah.  I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What did you do with Werner?  What…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=597.0,613.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Well, I, primarily, my, the, the purpose was to, to work on a thesis.  And, on the music of Hasidism was an area of serious interest to me.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But that didn’t interest him, did it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  Pardon?  It didn’t, it didn’t come, come into being.  I, I have the first two chapters.  I had problems.  It was not that the — I, perhaps I took on too much of a, of a, an, a central idea.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=613.0,639.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I wanted to demonstrate the relationship of the music of a particular Hasidic cult, Tzadik.  That the personality, the ways of this Hasidic group, and its relationship to the music.  And was there a relationship between the, the way of the Tzadik and the musical culture of that particular group?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=639.0,672.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It, I don’t know, I, frankly, even when I — God bless Eric.  He was not of, of great help to me.  Of course, it was a foreign subject for him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I was just going to say.  Not only was it a foreign subject, he practically detested…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=672.0,688.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And he used to say that Hasidic music, with reference to niggunim, whatever it would be, he said was, people singing the songs of their Cossack oppressors.  I’m sure you heard him use that line before.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Which, of course, by which he meant it was the Ukrainian modes, and Ukrainian tunes adopted.  But that, he missed the point.  I mean, that’s…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=688.0,709.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Oh, that’s not — I, as a matter of fact, because I have always taken an interest in it, I have, I lecture.  I have interesting lectures on the music of Hasidism in the 19th century.  And not to, not today.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=709.0,724.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSHARLIN:\u003c/strong\u003e It’s another world.  And so, I spent three years in — it was fascinating, because I, I lived with, in the dormitory for three years with five, three, eight rabbinic classes.  Where every, we all lived in the dormitory, in those days.  Nobody was married.  And so, I got to know many, many rabbis.  Some of them are still good friends of mine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=724.0,751.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e That’s right.  They had a rabbinical school choir, didn’t they?  Or an all, Hebrew Union College…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=751.0,776.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  No, this is just the, the students.  Since they were all there in, in the dormitory, we could really create something.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You couldn’t do that today, with rabbinical students.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  I, I, there, well, I, it’s difficult for me to say.  But in those days, there was a, a bit more sophisticated level of the student body.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=776.0,795.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  They were more musical, they were appreciative of, of good music.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, I know, you know Sam Dresners?  He was there for one year or two years, then he switched to the Seminary, and became…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But he sang in the chorus there, as a student.  A rabbinical student, as you say.  With Werner.  And he still, to this day, looks back upon it as a great period, a great experience.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd, but, in any case, you were invited to come out here, to…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=795.0,828.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSHARLIN:\u003c/strong\u003e I was invited.  It just so happened that a, one of the members of the board of Leo Baeck Temple, and also, a member of the board of the Hebrew Union College, they were establishing a school out here in L.A.  And they looked at me as a, on, perhaps an ideal subject for the work in both schools.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=828.0,853.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Which is what happened.  I became part-time cantor.  It was a small congregation, in those days.  It was only 200, 200 families.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tAnd I started to teach at the Hebrew Union College.  Primarily with rabbinic students.  But I also worked with a number of cantorial students and the, and I developed a cantorial program.  Eventually.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=853.0,873.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Now, this has always — well, we’ll get the answer to it, and I’m sure it’s not complicated.  I was just, it was never quite clear that, you said you worked with the school, worked with cantorial students, and so forth.  But there never has been a cantorial school per se offering a degree…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=873.0,891.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e …here.  And yet, people come and say, “Oh, I went to Hebrew Union College, I studied to be a cantor, with Cantor Sharlin.”  So, how does that, what are the facts of that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=891.0,903.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Okay.  The, for, it’s very simple.  First, when I first came, there were a number of well-established cantors.  I mean, so it was just the beginning of the school, you know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tAnd there were many established cantors who were worthy of being a part of the organization — the American Conference of Cantors, you know, which is the adjunct of…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=903.0,926.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSHARLIN:\u003c/strong\u003e …of the School of Sacred Music.  And so, I created some, classes to fill up some of the, the blanks that they needed.  And till they, they became certified as cantors.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=926.0,940.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But the area, the key, the key point is that the Los Angeles area — the large Los Angeles area — had so many small congregations that would never be, afford full-time cantors, graduates of the school.  And there certainly were not even enough graduates of the school to take care of them, even if they could, the congregations could pay.  And so, there was a need to help to create this category of, of cantorial soloist.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=940.0,973.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e And you created and you were the only…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=973.0,998.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  I was the, the teacher, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You did, you took care of everything.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  I took care of everything, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And the school, I mean, how did the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  The, we had an agreement with New York that we would not have a, not offer any, any paper.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Degree?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=998.0,1013.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSHARLIN:\u003c/strong\u003e A piece of paper.  That’s it.  Because they, they didn’t want the competition.  Or, they didn’t want, they felt that some of the students who were with me would normally, if they, if there were no program here, they would go to New York.  And they were begging for students, in New York.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1013.0,1030.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But most of these people, they could, no way could they go to New York and to Jerusalem.  They had married people, all kinds of people.  People with other jobs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, the same thing is true today.  I mean…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …we have the same problem.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  That’s, that’s true.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The question is whether, if they formed a school here, if they, if they would just have another branch here, that did give the degree, why would it be in, because there are so many people that just are not going to go to New York.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1030.0,1054.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  But that, it’s a financial thing, to have a full — you know, Hebrew Union College is running into so much financial problems.  And to create a full school here would be impossible.  I mean, it’s parallel to New York, and you have to have a staff.  Well, it’s true — they don’t have many full-time instructors there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  There’s only one full-time, yeah.  I mean…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But it’s only one full-time, really.  Because otherwise, it’s going to be part-time…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1054.0,1081.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Yeah.  From time to time, I’ve been invited to give master classes there.  But…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So what, when a person studied with you, here, even much more recently than that, at the conclusion of his studies…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1081.0,1095.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Okay.  A number of them have gone to New York and taken the program in New York.  Or…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Do they place out, though?  Do they get credit for anything?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  Yeah.  They got — nah, they wouldn’t take credit.  They had to take exams.  They refused to take credit.  It was a political, a political issue, there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1095.0,1114.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But they, they’re, a number of them did, and a number of them work, continue to work and prepare and were certified, eventually.  By the organization.  You know, recognized as capable, well, well-trained people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1114.0,1131.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e And since you left Hebrew Union College here — I mean, you don’t, you’re not on the faculty now?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1131.0,1146.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  No, I’m retired from the college.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Who, if anybody, took your place?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yes.  Sam Radwine, cantor.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  You know Sam?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, I met him years ago in New York.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  Yeah.  He’s taken the class.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And he was the same…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  And this class is a little different, because it’s a, it’s a mixture of — what shall I say?  Amateur, amateurs who are interested in getting to know the language.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Uh-huh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1146.0,1172.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSHARLIN:\u003c/strong\u003e And some more, some serious people.  I, when I, my program was this three-year cycle.  And new people could enter in, at any year.  Because we covered, we, we, through the cycle.  And it took three years to go through the nusaḥ — the complete cycle, for instance.  And then, we had, we had….","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1172.0,1195.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I, I had, because of that, I had to, there was no such thing as a beginner’s class.  Because they had to be very competent in, post-vocally, linguistically, at least to be able to read well.  And musically.  You can’t have a, you know, so that the, there was a reasonably common line — level — of ability by, with all of the students.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1195.0,1226.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And now, Radwine is the only one there?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And he has students, and it’s functioning?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  I don’t know.  I….  Yeah, well.  It’s, yes, they…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, Leo Baeck grew to be a substantial…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Sizeable…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …congregation.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  …congregation, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Weren’t they the ones who commissioned — or, let me put it the other way around.  Were they the ones who commissioned the Schöenberg, the Kol Nidre?  Or was that another congregation?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1226.0,1257.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  No, no, no.  That was Sunder, Sonderling.  Rabbi Sonderling.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What congregation?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  [?] sholem.  It was, he had a congregation of German background people.  And he had contact with Schöenberg.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1257.0,1271.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  And he asked, invited Schöenberg to, to do a piece, a Kol Nidre.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAs a matter of fact, I, I performed, I performed it, with organ.  You know, that’s, just what’s happened now…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You did it with me.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  …is that Leonard Stein and…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  We did that in 1992 at the Gindi Auditorium.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1271.0,1296.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  That was a program I was directing.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Oh.  Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, but I remember Nick Strimple conducted the chorus.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  That’s right.  Yes.  That, that’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And you conducted the solo parts…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1296.0,1310.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  And Mark Robeson, who was a fantastic keyboard person.  He, I mean he…\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.  Didn’t Leonard Stein do it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  No.  He didn’t play.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I don’t remember.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I thought he played.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He played on the program, on that same evening.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Uh-huh.  No, that was something else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1310.0,1325.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Well, you did the whole program, so he did other pieces, maybe.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.  He may have done some other works of…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Piano pieces.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Piano pieces.  That’s right.  Piano works of Schöenberg.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1325.0,1336.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Yeah.  I, I also did the, I had the great, greatest experience doing, performing the narration, narrator’s role in The Survivor From Warsaw, with the Philharmonic.  It was a, a powerful experience for me.  And I did, I worked hundreds of hours on that piece, the score, you know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1336.0,1362.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Doing, realizing, kind of crystallizing what Schöenberg notated.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You know, there’s a published piano reduction of that, now.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Now, there is a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I know the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Gevalt!  I mean, to, to play that on…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That can’t be played.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  That can’t, that’s rid, it’s ridiculous.  But I…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1362.0,1380.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  It was done by the — I don’t know if the man is still alive.  I should check with him, I haven’t talked to him in several years.  But he was the, his name was Kurt Frederick, but his real name was Kurt Fuchsgeld.  And he was the last chorus master of the Sulzer Temple in Vienna.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Uh-huh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  From 1939.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Ah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And he was here, then, in New Mexico, at Santa Fe, for years.  And he made that, I have a copy of it.  But it’s…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1380.0,1404.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  I was proud of that performance, but, and particularly, particularly these — Leonard — Bernheimer gave me a strong review.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, when you, let’s talk about you, aside from teaching.  I mean, obviously, you came into contact with everybody, basically.  I mean, as a teacher, as the kind of mentor of so many people here who wanted to be cantors in the Reform movement.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBut I want to talk about you as a composer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1404.0,1437.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  You’ve written an awful lot of music.  I’ve heard some; other pieces I haven’t heard.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Well, I, I should fill in a little bit, if, if I may.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Mmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  Because you asked me, were you always interested in, in singing?  But once I made this commitment to the cantorate, I had a responsibility to go ahead and develop myself vocally, and then, which is what I did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1437.0,1465.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I pursued that, and not only — until this very day, I am a, a student.  I have, I have, I happen to have a fetish about the, the, the, the miracle of the vocal idea.  And so, I — to the point, now, where I’ve learned so much that I, I teach and I, I’m pretty good.  I consider myself a, a good teacher, a vocal coach.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1465.0,1496.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, and I have a responsibility, for the congregation.  I had to do my best.  I mean, I always felt that that was an important responsibility of mine.  And so, I pursued it.  And I still do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1496.0,1512.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Well, I’m glad to hear it.  I mean, you’d be surprised how many students graduate….  Well, even people who graduated a long time ago, today, are cantors and they don’t take any voice lessons, any vocal coaching, ever again.  In fact, half the time, they’ll fool us while they’re in school, saying, “Oh, yes…”.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Well…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That they’re studying, but they’re really not.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1512.0,1534.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSHARLIN:\u003c/strong\u003e But the concept of studying has to be connected with the desire, the will.  To be able to concretize a, a vision of what one needs, to make, to bring hazzanut into its, the highest, into the highest level.  If you have a sense of what you want to do, and that you can’t quite do, then you must find a way to do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1534.0,1567.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Because that’s the objective — not just to, you know, to build up the voice, you know.  That, a lot of people have built up their voices, and that’s as far as it goes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You’re talking about as a, a vehicle?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.  Absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  A vocal vehicle.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1567.0,1585.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Yeah, because the, to me, the tradition — the old tradition — is a powerful, a powerful piece of, of literature.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, your experience years ago here, where you were studying, when you started, and then, for however long, was what today they call the “Classical Reform,” where the voice counted in a certain way, in a classical way.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Isn’t that so?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1585.0,1610.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  That’s right.  That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, is it fair to say that, in those days, one expected the best vocal quality one could find…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  That’s true.  That is, that is true.  What, what can I say?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What’s happened with it today?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1610.0,1628.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSHARLIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Look — I, it’s hard to be critical about what takes place, or what took place.  Because, in my case, I was blessed with a, a very rich background.  Which is, it vibrates in, in, in myself.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1628.0,1650.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e You’ve written a lot of works for the synagogue.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1650.0,1690.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Quite a bit, yes.  I have not published a great deal.  Because many of my works are not money-making works.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, I don’t suppose anything is.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN: Yeah, well look, the Gottschalk service \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Yeah for Alfred Gottschalk.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN: It has been… For years now, the Transcontinental, it’s been commissioned to publish it.  And it, it still hasn’t come out.  Full score.  Full score.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1690.0,1726.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  With orchestra?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yes.  It’s brass, it’s brass ensemble.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, that’s the piece you told me about.  Brass ensemble.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  Brass ensemble…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  …harp, guitars, for…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Classical guitars?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  No, no, no, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Electric guitars?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1726.0,1742.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Yes.  Well, electric guitars.  Whatever.  Just guitars.  For a couple of works in the, in the piece.  I don’t know if you know this piece.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1742.0,1753.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSHARLIN:\u003c/strong\u003e It’s an interesting — because it’s not, it has never been, there, there was a very, a deluxe edition that was published with the recording — a recording.  Five hundred copies.  And, of course, that went in no time, and that’s it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1753.0,1770.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It’s an interesting work, because it is a gibracht musik work.  But interesting, because I, I utilized 20, some 20 rabbinic students, all male.  This is a male performance.  Because in, back in those days, virtually everybody in the college — rabbinic students — were male.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1770.0,1793.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Who sang the, the…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1793.0,1837.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  I, I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Did you sing…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  I did the solo parts.  Well, the, the big thing is, the Eilu Devarim.  I don’t know if you ever heard that.  The two, dialogue for two hazzanim.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.  And that’s from this work?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1837.0,1849.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Yeah.  It’s, I mean, don’t they do it at…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  That’s a, it’s a great piece.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  And do you know what I did?  I took the processional, which is an interesting theme — (hums it).  Well, you can’t…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, you can…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1849.0,1866.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  …play that here.  And I, I broadened it out, very slowly, and I took, I created two, a dialogue of two, sounding improvisation on the text of Eilu Devarim.  It’s performed — it’s, see, the school in New York, they know it very well.  And a lot of, a lot of people perform it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That’s part of the larger piece.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1866.0,1893.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  That’s part of the larger piece, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  This larger piece, well, you could get me a recording of this, if — you must have one…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  I — well, I, yeah.  The recording itself is not so great.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, no.  I understand.  But…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1893.0,1905.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  It was not the recording at the performance.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  It was a recording that I made with hazzanim here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I’m interested in this, very much in it, but I’m, I don’t even want to wait until we finish.  Because this is for men’s choir, and we have some men’s choir recording sessions coming up with an absolutely phenomenal male choir.  And if…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Oh, God.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And if this only, how many people are in the brass?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1905.0,1924.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Five.  Just the brass.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  This is not a — yeah.  Brass and guitar and solo…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  Harp.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And harp.  And this is something I want to explore immediately.  Maybe we’ll do some of that in this.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Because that isn’t published, right?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  I’ll tell you what.  I, I’ll take the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s better if it’s not published.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1924.0,1942.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  I’ll take a record.  Oh, I….  Judith Tischler.  I can’t get, I can’t get them moving.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, that’s what I’m saying.  It’s better, I don’t, I’d rather deal with you than with them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1942.0,1959.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Uh, I mean, I have, I have scores for it, and there are handwritten…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Did you ever…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  There are handwritten scores.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  All right.  That’s fine, that’s fine.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  I mean, I have it.  Because…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Could you give me a recording of it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  But what I’ll do is, I’ll take the record and I’ll make a tape.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You’ll make a tape.  Fine.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNow, that’s larger.  You’ve written some other full-scale works, too, haven’t you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1959.0,1978.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Well, it’s a full-scale work.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  It’s the Shabbat service, with, with…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The Sabbath Suite.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  …chamber…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Is that The Sabbath Suite?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  No, that’s separate.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, that’s something else.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  That, the Sabbath Suite is the one that has Yom Zeh L’Yisrael, which you may know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, that’s, yes, another piece we’re going to do.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That’s right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1978.0,1993.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Yom Zeh L’Yisrael and Sholem Aleichem, which is, has a big, it’s not, not the little Sholem Aleichem that you know now.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s a different one?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  No, this is with, this is, the, the one that you know, which was published, because that’s easy.  It’s a simple little thing.  It is that the kernel in the center of the, this work that begins with — this is with woodwinds.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  How big are the woodwinds?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=1993.0,2019.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Woodwinds and harp.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What?  A quintet, or…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  A quintet of woodwinds.  Yeah, I have a recording.  I have a recording of, of that.  And on, I’m going to give you a recording of that, of a recent concert with — but it doesn’t have any of the, the pieces.  The Eilu Devarim— well, except, I do it with my daughter.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The Eilu Devarim is from the Gottschalk Committee?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, that’s \u003cINAUDIBLE\u003e.  And what’s the Gottschalk piece called?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2019.0,2056.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  A, for, a Service for the Transmission of, of the Torah.  Because this was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  But it doesn’t have a name?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  No.  That’s it.  It’s a Service for the Transmission of, of the Torah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  We need a better name.  We’ve got to give it a better name.  If they’re going to publish it.  Even Torah Service is…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2056.0,2074.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  You’re going to publish it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, I said, if they’re going to publish it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Well…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  \u003cINAUDIBLE\u003e.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.  But that’s what it is on the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Is it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  I should have brought the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  I have a couple, only, I have two…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Or some Hebrew name, you know, like Torat Emet or something.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  I see.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You need something, if you want my…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  See, Missirat…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2074.0,2092.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Well, it’s in Missirat, you know, Missirat A Torah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  The transmission.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Okay.  Something like that.  Yeah.  In Hebrew, it sounds better.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But the Sabbath Suite is also missing.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNow, tell me — how did that come to be written?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2092.0,2104.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  That was at, commissioned by Wally Kelter, Rabbi Wally Kelter, who was, you know, a real music…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Is he still…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  He’s still around.  He’s doing okay.  He’s hadn’t been well.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eHe was my, my buddy at, at the college.  He and I commiserated, you know.  We, we, we tried to keep the musical level at a high.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Is he still in Long Beach?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2104.0,2129.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSHARLIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, yeah.  He’s living in Long Beach.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIs that, so, but, it was a terrible performance, because they, he got some group back….  Yeah, but there are pieces, like the Shol, The Sholem Aleichem, the large Sholem Aleichem was performed.  And I have a recording of it by the UCLA Madrigal Group.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2129.0,2149.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  A good recording?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Good recording, yes.  And — but I have other recordings, you know, with a fine, of the Sholem Aleichem.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The UCLA Madrigal Group didn’t do the whole Sabbath Suite?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  No, no, no, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2149.0,2163.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  No.  They loved the work, and they…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, how would you characterize your compositional approach, in either of these two pieces?  I mean….\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Which two pieces?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Your technique.  Either the Sabbath Suite or the Torah service.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2163.0,2178.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Well, the Sabbath Suite, I utilized zemirot texts that came to my mind.  So, Yom Zeh L’Yisroel a, and Sholem Aleichem, and Ya Ribon.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Ya Ribon Olam, yeah?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2178.0,2204.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Ya Ribon.  I didn’t — incidentally, it was performed in New York, by the Kontich Hebraica.  And the, The New York Times gave it a good review.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Kontich Hebraica, that doesn’t exist anymore.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  That — no, no, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That was…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2204.0,2217.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  This was about 20, 20 years ago.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  That was, didn’t exist, they did some radio thing.  I’m trying to remember, now.  Paul Kwartin — didn’t he have something to do with that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Who?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Paul Kwartin?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2217.0,2233.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Yeah.  And Eliyahu.  I ended up with an Eliyahu to close the Shabbat.  Eliyahu Hanavi.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And the whole, well, this sounds like — in other words, you really did an art work on zmiros?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2233.0,2249.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSHARLIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.  And, again, ideas.  You’ll find motifs floating around from one piece to the other.  Second, you know, subordinate themes find their ways.  And that’s, that’s my nature.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2249.0,2268.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I am a craft person.  I, I, I, I’m able to….\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSee, most Jews — I say most Jews — only are able to look into small spaces, you know?  And they can create gems, little gems.  But the ability to step back and to, to create a, a whole, a piece that’s a whole of elements.  That’s…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2268.0,2300.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Of course, that’s true of many composers of the mainstream.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yes.  There’s no question.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  For example, certain critics will say that — I don’t agree, necessarily — but that Chopin was best as a miniaturist.  Right?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  That’s right.  The…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And that his sonatas…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  The concerti, the concerti are…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I don’t necessarily agree.  I mean, to me, the B-Minor Sonata…\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Oh, okay, okay, okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …is one of the five…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …ten great works of the piano literature.  So, I…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2300.0,2325.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  But that happens.  That happens.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But, you know, and you know, they say that about a lot of people.  That they’re….  But in — it is true.  I mean, I’ll tell you.  I think it’s true, for example, of people like Lazar Weiner.  Where is he best?  He’s best at the…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2325.0,2342.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  His Yiddish, the Yiddish songs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Songs.  He’s not best at the large oratorios that he wrote for the Workmen's Circle.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  No.  You have to — well, you have to have another vision.  You have to have a, you have to be — as I said, you have to be able to step back and look at the whole canvas.  Okay?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2342.0,2362.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  I mean, if you’re working on the canvas, and we have all nice, little things.  And somebody gives me a composition, “Hey.  What do you think of this piece?”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tAnd I say, “Hey, you know, this, I like the opening.  But what’s the B section?  It’s got nothing to do with the, with the A.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  That’s true.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2362.0,2383.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  It’s, it’s the iintele Yid.  You know, it’s the, the pintele Yid.  To be able to look into a small piece and to dig, and dig into it, and hafuch and hafuch.  To recreate out of, out of the old.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, you remember old types of hazzanas, like big choral things, where they attempted big, sprawling pieces, like Zeidel Rovner.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2383.0,2402.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Well, I tell my students — I don’t know if you agree with this — but basically, you take a look at a 20-minute composition.  Like, like the Av Harachamim takes 20 minutes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Or the Emes Ve-Emuna, which was even more famous and ubiquitous at one time, takes 17 minutes.  Basically, every page is a different composition.  There are no relations.  There’s no development.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2402.0,2430.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Well, but that’s the, that’s my point, about, about this, that, that world.  And yet, somebody like Pinchik was able to transcend that.  I think Pinchik already had….  you know, his Rosa De Shabbes and Rabbona Shel Shalom…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It builds.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2430.0,2452.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  …really takes you.  It takes you all the way.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Though there are works….  There are several, in fact, that, even at — oh, Novakovsky, for example.  The famous Adonai Zichronah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That builds, that’s compositionally sound, in the sense that it…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …utilizes…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2452.0,2465.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  It’s one of his, one of the, one of the best.  But even there, it’s, there are some places where it’s a shtickel here and a shtickel there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But that’s not a big work.  You’re talking about a really big work.  A multi-movement work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2465.0,2474.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Yeah.  Yeah.  But, you know, the Gottschalk work was a functional work.  It was written for the choreography.  And it was a pop, great pomp.  The Plum Street Temple.  It was a fantastic thing.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Of course…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Do you utilize, or not, in works such as these, when it comes to the solo vocalize, do you utilize elements of hazzanut?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2474.0,2503.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSHARLIN:\u003c/strong\u003e It’s there.  It’s, it finds its way.  I, I never write a piece with an intention to be traditional.  The text, generally, it takes me somewhere.  It’s, that’s, and it evolves, gradually, and I get turned on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2503.0,2529.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Have you written outside the Judaic sphere much, or…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2529.0,2556.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Well, yeah.  I’ve written some piano compositions.  And my wife has performed them.  Not bad.  They’re very interesting.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But most of your work has been…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Is, is…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  When I say Judaic, I don’t necessarily mean religious.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2556.0,2569.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Yeah.  Well, some of my works are performed in churches.  Because my singers, my professional singers — and I have a, I had a, a great chorus, and, and, at Leo Baeck Temple.  They would take some of my stuff and, and perform them at their churches.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  In Hebrew?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2569.0,2589.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Yes.  It’s translated.  Because of the text, the text had…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, performed the translation?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s not?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  It’s performed in Hebrew.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  In churches?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.  So, you’re, you’re amazed.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, I don’t know.  Maybe a little under that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2589.0,2612.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  You think zi post nisht?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.  Not at all.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Is that what you’re…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  To the contrary.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  I mean, I have done some programs in churches.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2612.0,2623.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Myself.  I’ve, it’s, I’ve given, a program on hazzanut.  I’ve opened up the world of hazzanut to these people.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tAnd I, a favorite of mine, improvisation is a key interest of mine.  Because I can improvise.  I, I don’t care where I am, at any given time, I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You’re talking about improvised lectures, or hazzanut?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  No.  Hazzanut.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But the improvisational skill is not something you learned at Hebrew Union College, is it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  No.  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That, where did you learn that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2623.0,2652.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Where did I learn that?  For, for one thing, the language is totally absorbed in my system, okay?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  When you say the language, you mean the language…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  When I say, I’m talking about the liturgy.  Yes.  I didn’t need a, a siddur.  I knew the, I knew the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  From childhood?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2652.0,2669.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  From childhood.  I mean, I was bar mitzvah, I — who do you think did the whole bar mitzvah?  I, I, I sang, I davenned the entire service, I did the entire parashah.  I gave a drashah in Hebrew.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Of course, the obvious question is, what led you to go into the Reform movement and the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Ah, yes.  That big…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …as a cantor…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  People ask me that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  As opposed to being…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  People ask me that, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Why did you become a hazzan instead of a hazzan?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2669.0,2693.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  I’m, first of all, I, I’m glad I did, first of all.  And I’m glad it ended up with Leo Baeck Temple.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLeo Baeck Temple is often looked upon as a Reform, quote — you know what I mean.  But and then, I was, I was the, the traditional core, you know, there.  And a lot of people say, you know, that I represented something…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  A link.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2693.0,2717.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  A long link with….\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSolomon Freihoff used to say that — but this was 30, 40 years ago.  I worked with him on some programs.  He said that the, the cantor represents the past, and the rabbi, then the rabbi represents the future.  That, well, that’s, that’s, that was, that was a long time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2717.0,2745.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  That was a long time ago.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  See, today, that would have a negative connotation.  But he didn’t mean it that way.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  No, he didn’t.  Not at all.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He was quite to the contrary.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  No, not at all.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Today…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  No, but I, what am I doing in, here in — people ask me all the time.  And there are different levels, different — you know, I could talk about different reasons for that happening.  For one thing, it offered me an opportunity to express myself, really, in both worlds.  Very simple.  I could do — with Leo Baeck, they, I had carte blanche.  And I could open up and create and, and use fine singers.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Then you must have had a cooperative rabbi.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2745.0,2787.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Yeah.  Well, well, yeah, yeah.  Definitely.  Leonard Beerman was one who was very…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, it couldn’t have been, in 19 — was it ’54, that you were there?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  In ’54, it couldn’t have been too classical-classical, because if it were, I mean, it wouldn’t have…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  No, no, no.  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …you wouldn’t have been, I mean…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  No, it’s not…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …you were called “cantor” from the beginning, right?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yes, of course.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  At Wilshire Boulevard…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  No, no, no.  No, no.  No.  Come on, that’s, there were cantors and hazzanim at that time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2787.0,2817.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  They had a cantor before me.  Not a, a trained cantor.  Somebody that sang well, or whatever.  But see, so I, in there, I could express myself, on, on many levels.  But some, if you want to get into a, a more sensitive reason — and this is for the Archives, right?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Absolutely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2817.0,2846.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSHARLIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Is because — I would put it this way — had my father, olav hashalom, I loved him, I meant, but he was a strict, he was a, a bit of a Calvinist Jew.  He didn’t observe for the pleasure of observing.  He observed because you just, you had to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2846.0,2867.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e That’s very interesting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2867.0,2890.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  That’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And, of course, at the time you went to Hebrew Union College, the Conservative movement hadn’t yet opened its school.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It was two years later.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.  Uh-huh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah, I, I don’t know.  Well, I was glad, because I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You found the right niche.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2890.0,2904.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Yeah, I did.  And Eric Werner was important for me.  I, because I, I did some interesting things with him and for him.  I used to proofread his, his writing, because there was givaldigah things in there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I know.  I worked with Werner very closely, too.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  You did?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I think I was his last protégé.  And we were working on some things just during his last illness.  But yeah.  I know.  I know the whole….","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2904.0,2927.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Actually, one of the things that I wanted to see done was a volume called, “The Complete Collected Writings of Eric Werner.”  And I started to work on that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Good.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And several years ago, in the sense of just work on it.  Like just identifying every, I think I created a table of contents.  Some of the things are very hard to find.  The magazines.  Because he wrote some articles in Germany that he didn’t even have one copy of, that were totally lost.  Not even one.  Not even one for himself.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Goodness.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2927.0,2963.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e He told me he, we went through his apartment together.  Then, he had — but it, you know, now, you can maybe have a better chance of finding something like that.  And he had other things that would never — some marvelous articles, including the Ma’oz Tzur article, that was, the original one, which was never translated.  So, that has to be translated.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eI’m talking about all in English.  His dissertation — his doctoral dissertation — in, I think it was in Strasbourg.  If I’m not mistaken, it was in Strasbourg.  He didn’t have a copy of it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd his doctoral dissertation, which could be excerpted for a thing like this, I believe — and I’m not sure — is totally in Latin.  Which would make sense, wouldn’t it?  I mean….  It was in totally in Latin.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=2963.0,3004.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSHARLIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Listen — I can kill myself for not having saved my drasha, my bar mitzvah drasha in Hebrew.  What the heck did I….\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tAnd I, I, nobody taught me.  I didn’t have to have any teachers to prepare me for it.  I did it all on my own.  Parashat Vayechi.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3004.0,3022.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Well, I mean, the trouble is, with something like — and this would be a tremendous — it’s not just a question of a debt of gratitude to Werner for what he’s done.  And he did phenomenal things.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, there is nobody like that, today.  There’s absolutely nobody.  I mean, he…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And, and there never will be, I mean, because that’s a different world of education, of languages, of this sort of thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3022.0,3042.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  I had the pleasure of helping celebrate his 85th birthday.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  And I wrote a, a, I spoke about him and… I did a drosh on 85.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Pey hey.  And pey hey is peh.  You know, Eric has a mouth.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  You know, and, and you know what I mean by his mouth.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3042.0,3067.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  And it also means po — right here and now.  He, he, he speaks his mind, right, right here and now.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  This is all, this is true.  But he was much more like a lot of these people who come across one way to the public, or even to people who don’t go beneath the surface.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  That’s right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3067.0,3085.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  He was very humble, in a way.  He once said to me, quote-unquote, he said, “I have made plenty of boo-boos myself.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Quote-unquote.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  That’s, that’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  A lot of people would think that would be the opposite of anything Werner would have said.  But that would be a phenomenal thing to do, for the sake of Jewish music research.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  How about his composition?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And his composition.  You know, I have an original score of his symphony.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  A symphony?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Hmmm-mmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3085.0,3109.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  I mean, his writing.  The man was, but it’s good.  You know what?  He, I was told that before I came to the Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati, and he was, he was there, and he was the organist.  He played…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3109.0,3127.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSHARLIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Right?  And he, during the sermon, never cared.  You know, had no interest in the sermon.  He would practice writing fugues.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3127.0,3141.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  He was a big bridge player, too.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Ah, yeah.  Loved Mahler.  He and I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, he did have this…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  He and I loved, sat at his home on a couple of occasions, playing four-hand…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  …Mahler.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  There, this is, you know, the problem with this, if we had acted sooner, right after he died, there were still a number of people around who would have raised the money to publish a thing like that.  People like Judy Eisenstein, like, you know, his…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3141.0,3172.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  …the people who were part….  I suppose, on the hand, there still are.  You still have Paul Steinberg, who has great admiration for him.  I don’t particularly…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.  Oh, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …care for Paul Steinberg, and I don’t get along with him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Right.  I mean, that’s okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But if a project is a project.  And this would, because the material that’s in those articles, I think, would benefit us all, you know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Oh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3172.0,3192.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Your approach to some of the even more gebraucht musik type things.  I mean, such as the luft things that you’ve taught.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Some of which are very important things, though, because…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, harmonically, what’s your approach been?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3192.0,3210.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSHARLIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Color.  I utilize color to dramatize the text.  When, to heighten.  To heighten, to calm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIt’s, you know, I don’t think that, but I, as if I, if I look back, I, some people say they can sort of smell a, a piece — that it’s my piece.  Because of the use of, of coloring.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3210.0,3240.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Is that a cycle, or…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3240.0,3263.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  It’s, no.  It’s not a part of a cycle.  And my wife has been asking me to do a cycle.  It’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  In other words, the sync is one song.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.  It’s one song.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tLEVIN:  In English?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  In English, yes.  Will There Yet Come Days?\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Because I’m interested in — I mean, have you done any leider in — you know, kunst-lieder.  Like Lazar Weiner, but either in Yiddish or Hebrew.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Oh, yes.  Yes, I have.  I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Secular Jewish artsongs?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3263.0,3292.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Yes, I have another piece, by Hannah Senesh.  Yesh Kochavim.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Do you think that would qualify as secular Jewish…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  Yeah.  Yeah.  Oh, yes.  The Yesh Kochavim?  I know one, one of my singers and her student did, performed Yesh Kochavim in her recital, her graduating recital.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So, you can get, you could get me a few things like that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah, I, oh, I don’t know if I have it with me here, but I have…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But it’s not here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3292.0,3318.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  I brought a, a packet of stuff here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  It’s interesting.  And it’s a funny thing.  I mean, some of the composers who are very involved with us have lots of works of different kinds, both synagogue music and totally secular music.  Somebody like Samuel Adler, for example.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eThere, there’s no lieder.  There’s no lieder.  He has one psalm setting for voice and piano that you could squeeze in and call lieder, but that’s not really lieder.  That would be fudging it a little bit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3318.0,3345.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Well, but you see, I have liturgical pieces.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And that’s something else.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  That, but that are Lieder, because on my keyboard…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Of course.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  …my keyboard…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Of course.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  …is as important.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I know.  But that doesn’t…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  I just don’t plunk down chords.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …that’s another category.  And I want that, too.  But lieder-lieder.  You know, of course, there’s lots of Lazar Weiner.  There are people like of a simpler type, musically, like Golub and Weinstock and Lamkoff and all kinds of things, and Maurice Rauch, and all this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3345.0,3375.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then, and there are people — Binder wrote a couple of songs in Hebrew.  Actually, Golub had published a lot of things that were in Yiddish and then a good Hebrew translation.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But if you have, if you have things, if you write more things, I think that’s a very neglected area — of Hebrew lieder.  Hebrew lieder.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Hebrew lieder.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Secular lieder.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah, well…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Could be religious texts, could be quasi-religious texts, total…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3375.0,3400.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Well, I’ve, I’ve done things of, you know, Pirkei Avot…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  …texts.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But that’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  But that, I have a, just as, and I hope are getting published.  Rabbi Tarfon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3400.0,3410.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  That’s for voice and piano?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  That’s for — no.  That’s for, for chorus and…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh.  Those are chorus.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  No, you want the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That’s something else.  That’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah, that has, that, I think, I’m very much interested in getting that published.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  That’s a capella, of course?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  But I have that in Hebrew and in English\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: A capella? \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN: Uh, no no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: This was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN: No, no the keyboard was rich fabric. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Piano or?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN: Piano\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yes, it’s, hayom katser v’hamelacha meruba.  I set that.  And I wrote an English text for that.  The Day Moves On, you know.  I, I really, I struggled with the singing relationship.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, I thought it was a different one.  When you said hayom katsar.  No, I’m thinking of the — I have it on my stationery.  It’s about… but I don’t remember who I have.  It also begins with hayom katsar, but it’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Really?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The workers, the task is…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3410.0,3478.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Yes, yes.  But that’s what it is.  hayom katsar v’hamelacha meruba.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN: Yeah.  V’hapoalim atzaylim, v’hasachar harbei u’va’al habayit dokhek.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Dokhek, that’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The master is…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3478.0,3488.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  But I, I took English, the, “The day, the days move on.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  “And there is so much to be done.”  You know, because it had, I had to work with the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  See, I put that, I had it stripped in and printed on my memo pads.  So, it says that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3488.0,3503.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  It’s a very interesting, full of canons.  I love — yeah, I haven’t talked about that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eI have interesting canons and rounds.  And create a fascinating, unusual canons that — maybe I’ve learnt that from Schöenberg, because I, you know, his, his canons are remarkable.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tIncidentally, his, his son is a member of Leo Baeck Temple.  And they’ve had b’nai mitzvah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3503.0,3533.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  And I’ve always had the pleasure of, at one, at each bar mitzvah, to do a piece of Schöenberg.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:   Hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  With nothing, you know, nothing…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But nothing…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  You know, you something manageable.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s, it’s true.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3533.0,3546.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Something manageable.  But it was good.  And we did one of his canon, one of his great canons, where the, each voice comes in at a slower tempo.  It’s a, brilliant.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And you’ve used this technique in synagogue music, too?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Wasn’t the Sim Shalom a round, or…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Well, there is a Sim…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  There’s one…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3546.0,3569.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Well, I mean, I don’t know.  It’s a (sings) Sim shalom, tova u’verarakha [MORE OF THE HEBREW PRAYER SUNG]….  This is with chamber orchestra.  You’ll, you find that on the tape that I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  That’s very interesting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3569.0,3590.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  I, I don’t know what other Sim Shalom.  I have littler, others, littler Sim Shaloms.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Maybe I’ve confused you with another….  I’ll tell you where I’ve heard it.  In 1991 — wait.  Was it ’91, or was it….  No, no, no.  ’89.  No.  Let me think back.  When was the convention in San Francisco?  Where they did a whole program of your music?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  In San Francisco?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  In Oakland.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3590.0,3615.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  In Oakland, yes.  That, that must have been it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Maybe ten years…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …’88.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I think it was ’88.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  It’s ten years ago.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I could be off.  But I think it was ’88.  Yeah.  It was ’88.  And one evening, they did…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah, at that time…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  ..different…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  …did they play tapes at that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.  There was a chorus that sang.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  Oh, the chorus that sang.  Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, I mean, it was probably a lot of HUC students.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3615.0,3638.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSHARLIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, well, listen.  I have, I wrote a, a round, Tzor Te’uda.  It’s a text from Isaiah.  Which is on the, the, the Coat of Arms of the Hebrew Union College.  Tsor Te’uda.  And Khatom Torah v’Limudai.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3638.0,3656.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Unless you make…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3656.0,3679.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSHARLIN:\u003c/strong\u003e …it becomes very tedious.  So the challenge is, is to build up, even, even harmonically, to reach out.  In harmonic.  Even though the vocal harmony is the same.  It’s rigid.  To create some, in, new interest.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3679.0,3695.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I have that in the Sim Shalom, as you will hear.  All kinds of things going on.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So you are, to put it simply, you are definitely a contrapuntalist?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Oh.  Okay.  Here we go.  Yeah.  Oh, yeah.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s very refreshing to hear, today.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  In an era of minimalism, which, of anti-contrapuntal.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, I don’t know if that’s fading, or what.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3695.0,3723.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  But you know, when I do the contrapuntal work, I, I, it has to still live.  It has to be alive.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eListen, I, I’ve learned from everybody.  Koom lomdai.  I learned from Bach a great deal.  I mean, I’ve studied Bach.  I can’t tell you how much, how much I’ve, time I spent on Bach.  You know?  I know the, the B-Minor Mass inside…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, we’re talking about…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  …inside…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …we’re talking about…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  …inside out.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …to \u003cINAUDIBLE\u003e.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3723.0,3757.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  But the point is that all of these levels are part of my fabric.  I can’t help myself.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  I mean…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3757.0,3767.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  That’s what I am.  Unfortunately, some of my material, which I think is, is worthy, they won’t touch it.  It’s, “Oh, you’re, you’re too sophisticated for my congregation.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, especially nowadays.  What has…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Oh!\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …I wanted to kind of close up with talking about what has happened.  Oh, you can speak both nationally, because you’re a national figure.  But particularly, for the Los Angeles area, which is a good microcosm of everywhere else.  I mean, what’s happened to synagogue music?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLet’s take in the Reform Movement.  I mean, when they say, when someone says that you’re too sophisticated, one might think that you’re talking, that you’re doing Alban Berg or something, which we both know you’re not.  I know your music, and, if anything, it has lovely charm to it, as well as….\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSo, what do they mean, when they say that?  What’s going on today?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3767.0,3823.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Well, that means that they’re, you’ve, the cantors, it’s, it doesn’t speak to the ears of a cantor, of the cantors.  The cantor has, the, those in charge have to have a, themselves, a, have strong feeling.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Do you think it doesn’t speak to the people, or just do the cantors…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …think that it doesn’t speak?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3823.0,3841.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  No.  That’s, when it’s done well, you see, that’s very important.  If you just rattle something off there…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, but I mean, do you feel that it’s the fault of the leaders?  In this case, cantors?  Who think that they have to pander to the lowest common denominator?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3841.0,3865.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Yeah.  That is part of it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Or is it the people themselves?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Both.  Well, like, you know, I don’t want to over-generalize, but it’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  See, I think it’s the cantors.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  It’s the cantors.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I think they’re underestimating the congregations.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSHARLIN:  But I, don’t leave the rabbi out of the picture.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, when I, I mean the clergy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3865.0,3882.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  The clergy.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  As opposed to — no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  I just…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You could say the rabbis even more.  But, I mean, do you feel that this is just the path of least resistance?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3882.0,3895.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSHARLIN:\u003c/strong\u003e That’s, that’s part of it.  It’s part of it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eI just wrote an article.  I’m, I’m sort of writing it.  On listening.  The ability, what makes listening possible, and also, what makes listening affect, affect it.  And it had to do with the pulpit.  I didn’t, I didn’t mention rabbi or cantor.  I just spoke of the pulpit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3895.0,3922.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I speak of fragmentation, you see.  The sacred experience — to me — the sacred experience means, means a continuity of the spirit, a, an ongoing.  But the moment you, you — what did I say?  The, you break it up.  What’s the word I said?  I can’t think of it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Fragment.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Fragment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3922.0,3945.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSHARLIN:\u003c/strong\u003e The minute you fragment it, if you, you have two people on the pulpit.  If one is off in, in one world and the other isn’t, and they’re both presenting something to the congregation, you, if one is turned on and the other is not, if one, if, if, if nobody is listening on the pulpit, if nobody is listening on the pulpit, how can you expect, do you think the congregation doesn’t have an, is not affected by that?  That the congregation is — is the pulpit involved?  Is the, the pulpit moved?  Does the liturgy mean anything to the pulpit?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3945.0,3992.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean, I raise a whole series of questions.  When you look at that and you see, where — because, you know, we’re in a, at a time when a liturgy is, in a way, it’s not, it’s, it’s an, an external thing, for many pulpit people.  It’s there, because that’s, you know, we have nothing else.  You use that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=3992.0,4025.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But it’s, very often, the liturgy is simply used.  It’s, it’s, I mean, it’s being exploited, but it’s not a real thing.  It’s not a real thing, on the part of people.  It’s not believable.  And, and the pulpit doesn’t make the liturgy believable.  Maybe I can reduce it to that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=4025.0,4044.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  You were saying in a more, a less yeshiva way, in a more philosophical and broader and deeper way, I think, what we heard just recently in another interview.  We did an interview with the rabbi of, do you remember Beth El of Borough Park?  Temple Beth El of Borough Park, where Moshe Koussevitzky was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Oh, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And Rabbi Schorr, who is some 94 years old now…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Oh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …is still the rabbi of the congregation.  And he’s there, he’s been there all these years, from, going back long before Koussevitzky was there, even.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd we asked him what is — in his case, we’re talking about hazzanut, as opposed to the broader spectrum of synagogue music, in your case.  But whatever it is, it’s all the same.  It’s musical expression of the liturgy.  What is it?  What’s its value?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd he said, “Hazzanut is mikhayei hamaytim.”  It brings dead words — otherwise dead words — to life.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Oh, interesting.  That’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And I suppose you would agree with that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=4044.0,4113.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SHARLIN:  Oh, absolutely.  It’s a beaut, there is this great beauty, whether you believe the literalness of it or not.  There is, there is great beauty.  And, well.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tBut if you don’t feel, if you don’t have that relationship with, what, what are you doing?  It’s just utilizing.  Because that’s what you have, that’s why you come to shul.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, without mentioning the name of certain congregations…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=4113.0,4146.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSHARLIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.  Look, look.  I wrote an article on, a long time, it was published in the, the HUC Journal, or whatever.  A short article on when the cantor turned around.  When the hazzan turned around.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=4146.0,4164.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And because I remind, I, when I, we, we had a session with, with Dovid Koussevitzky.  And he was, came to the college and we spoke with him in a session, and I asked him, “What, what, what does he like?  What does he feel?  Who is he, on the pulpit?”  In, in the Borough Park, in the Borough Park shul?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=4164.0,4191.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He said, that at one point, they insisted that he face the congregation.  And so I, I said, “What happened?”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSo, he said, “Forget it.  That was the end.  It was the end.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=4191.0,4204.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the ability to achieve privacy, you know, that’s, that’s, that’s a key, a key thing about….  You have to have, any forum that you want to communicate something, you have the, you have to create the privacy of, of whatever you are in with.  You have to be alone with it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=4204.0,4235.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You can’t — I’ve seen — and I say, if the pulpit experiences it, really, in a unity, really experiences, something is going to happen to that congregation.  And the listening ability, listening will be a part of the worship experience.  Not an interruption.  Okay?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, you’ve answered what I was going to ask.  So, it’s good.  I mean, listening, participation.  I mean, I’m sick of hearing that word.  Because…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …they don’t understand, I mean, isn’t listening a form of participation?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  That’s right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=4235.0,4272.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e But then, I mean, it’s the same thing, if you go to hear the last three Beethoven quartets, or piano sonatas, in a recital.  It’s annoying, even then, if someone says to me, “Well, did you enjoy it?”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=4272.0,4285.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean, there are all levels of enjoyment.  There is such a thing as deep enjoyment, too.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But they mean, was I entertained?  And it’s the same thing, I suppose, in the synagogue.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  That’s true.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But because I might say, “No, I didn’t enjoy it at all.  It was a wrenching experience.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Oh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You know, I might.  And I suppose, I mean, do we want to enjoy Av HaRachamim?  In Martyrology?  The way Pinchik sang it?  Or Eili Ezkor?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  No, small, small, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  You want to…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=4285.0,4314.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSHARLIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Something should be happening to a person in a synagogue.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLook.  There’s no question that the need, the synagogue serves the the need for preserving identity of people, of the Jew.  Its, its prime, its primary function is to help preserve their identity.  Because without it, there is nothing else.  There’s not, there’s very little else.  And so, the synagogue is there to preserve the identity.  It gives them a, some kind of a link as, as Jews.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=4314.0,4360.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"This is a prayer book.  It may mean nothing to them.  Well, listen.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eI say, I, I think, I tell my rabbi, who is, won’t change a word of this, the pamphlet services that we have.  There is a beautiful text that you can read.  You don’t have to — okay.  You don’t have to do the same thing.  I think I can move the congregation.  No.  He doesn’t, he doesn’t want to, everything in order.  My congregation is, the experience is, well, you know, talking about unity.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=4360.0,4403.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When I do a service myself, which I’ve done from time to time, I am the, the rabbi, I’m, there is a unity.  I’m, there is just one person communicating to the congregation, in both the liturgy, and in the music, and even in the, in the discussion that I would, may lead a discussion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=4403.0,4425.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fragmentation is….  The sacred can take, take, take place only when there is a unity.  Fragmentation leads to a secular experience.  Just an ordinary experience of coming together.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=4425.0,4446.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Who, who was it — a Rabbi Hartman, said….\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  David Hartman?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.  He said, “In the old days, people came to shul to daven.  Now, they come to shul to see other, other, see other Jews.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, but this is not a recent…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.  Yeah…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  There’s nothing new about that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Right.  Yeah.  I mean, it’s just…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=4446.0,4462.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e And there are those who think that it — and then we should close on this note.  Because, I mean, today, it, you’re talking about it from one end, and you could talk about it from the other end of the spectrum, which is just as bad.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd the whole people complain that they go to shul — I’m quoting, “to daven,” because I don’t like the word “shul” and I don’t like the word “daven.”  I mean, I don’t know why people are afraid of, “I go to the synagogue to pray.”  But that’s a whole other philosophical question, of why — euphemistic switching of languages.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=4462.0,4492.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e In closing, is there, is there could be one message that you’d like your music to get across….","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=4492.0,4536.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSHARLIN:\u003c/strong\u003e I don’t know what to, what to say.  I, I hope the pendulum will, will swing a bit.  It’s my only hope, is that the, it, I think that the training of, of the pulpit leadership needs to be looked at more pointedly, from my point of view.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=4536.0,4573.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Just to know the stuff is not enough.  You know what I mean?  Just to know the stuff.  And sometimes, they hack away with too much nusaḥ.  What do you need?  It needs a….  But where is the, the beauty of the nusaḥ, you know?  Can you move people with a, a, with a V’ne’emar ki fada Adonai et Ya’akov.  That’s what counts.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=4573.0,4602.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934/transcript/24994/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That’s, that’s my, my hope.  And that’s what I try to communicate with my students.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, it’s been a pleasure talking to you.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Right.  It’s good, good…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  More than a pleasure — it’s been a very provocative, in a positive way.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Your life of experience.  And I’d be glad to continue this privately, and I certainly look forward to recording your music.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSHARLIN:  Okay.  That’s great.  That would be great.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40270/file/111934#t=4602.0,4637.73867"}]}]}]}