{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/dn3zs2kz78/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Cardozo, A. Lopes"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Preferred Citation"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCardozo, Abraham Lopes. 1998. Interview by Neil W. Levin. Milken Archive Oral History Project. 23 February.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Milken Family Foundation"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e© Milken Family Foundation. Unauthorized use is prohibited. For inquiries, please contact info@milkenarchive.org.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Abraham Lopes Cardozo (Cantor/Hazzan)","Neil W. Levin (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1998-02-23 (recorded)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["New York, NY (Place of Recording)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (Primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eOral history interview with Hazzan Abraham Lopes Cardozo of Shearith Israel, the U.S.’s oldest, continually functioning synagogue where he served for 50 years. Born in Amsterdam in 1914, Lopes Cardozo began his career as a hazzan in Suriname in 1939. While visiting New York on a vacation in 1945, members of Shearith Israel heard Lopes Cardozo sing the liturgy and recruited him to be their hazzan–a continuation of the congregation’s centuries-old practice of “importing” the best and most knowledgeable hazzanim in order to preserve their musical heritage. In addition to Lopes Cardozo's personal history, the interview focuses on tradition and change within the Western Sephardi musical tradition, its historical continuity, and its connection to the Sephardi communities of both Northern Europe and the Mediterranean.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["Beta SP"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Jews -- Music (Topical Term)","Sephardim--United States--Music. (Topical Term)","Congregation Shearith Israel (New York, N.Y.) (Person or Corporate Body)"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eOral history interview with Hazzan Abraham Lopes Cardozo of Shearith Israel, the U.S.\u0026rsquo;s oldest, continually functioning synagogue where he served for 50 years. Born in Amsterdam in 1914, Lopes Cardozo began his career as a hazzan in Suriname in 1939. While visiting New York on a vacation in 1945, members of Shearith Israel heard Lopes Cardozo sing the liturgy and recruited him to be their hazzan\u0026ndash;a continuation of the congregation\u0026rsquo;s centuries-old practice of \u0026ldquo;importing\u0026rdquo; the best and most knowledgeable hazzanim in order to preserve their musical heritage. In addition to Lopes Cardozo's personal history, the interview focuses on tradition and change within the Western Sephardi musical tradition, its historical continuity, and its connection to the Sephardi communities of both Northern Europe and the Mediterranean.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u0026copy; Milken Family Foundation. Unauthorized use is prohibited. For inquiries, please contact info@milkenarchive.org.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/111/969/small/Cardozo.jpg?1620992544","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - L3373-74_Cardoza_A_Lopes_Combined.mp4"]},"duration":5824.128,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/111/969/small/Cardozo.jpg?1620992544","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-milken.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/111/969/original/L3373-74_Cardoza_A_Lopes_Combined.mp4?1619777399","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":5824.128,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Lopes-Cardozo-Abraham-08-15-2023 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  It’s a pleasure to be with you, Hazzan Cardozo….\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  It’s a pleasure to be here.  To have you here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …in this historic synagogue.  Shearith Israel, the oldest congregation — is it not?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  In the Western Hemisphere.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=16.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  The oldest congregation in the Western Hemisphere.  This congregation was formed where, originally?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Here in New York.  And, which used to be called New Amsterdam, in the year 1654.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And the Jews came from Brazil?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, they came from Brazil, and they landed here.  And they were looking for a new way of living, where they would be able to prosper.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=30.0,59.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the people who came here — there were 23 people, Jewish people, who came here in 1654.  Some of them were Ashkenazim.  There were also a Sephardim among them. And it seems to be that the Sephardim, most, some of the Sephardim knew the services.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=59.0,79.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That’s why their services they started, and in a very modest building in Mill Street.  And you find here a symbol of that here in the vestibule, leading to the, our synagogue building.  They, so they decided to do the service Sephardic.  And it stayed that way up till today.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=79.0,101.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And even today, we have a great number of non-Sephardim — Ashkenazim — members, and we are most happy about it.  Because who knows what would have happened if we had only Sephardim.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=101.0,115.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Even board members?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Even board members, right, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  For example…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Some of the rabbis, sometimes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Skydell.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  Yeah, Skydell…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Norman.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, Norman Skydell.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Was he a board member?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  A very good friend of ours.  Yeah.  He was a board member till recently, but, and he’s very well-informed about things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=115.0,134.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, like I mentioned to you, a number of names of, very nice names.  We used to have members by the name of Unterberg.  And, and if you go through the synagogue, you see all the name plates.  You’ll find out that I think the majority is Ashkenazic.  But with this proviso — that they followed and believed in our traditions, in our melodies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=134.0,156.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It means we have families where the grandfather already was a member.  So that means that they had everything here.  They had the wedding here, and they had the Brit Milah here and they had the Bar Mitzvah here. So, between us, and we know that it’s not much difference between Ashkenazi and Sephardi.  We are all Yehudim.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  In 1654 or in, you know, a few years or even decades after that, that group that came, in other words, of 24 people, or —","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=156.0,183.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Twenty-three.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Twenty-three people or 23 families?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Which one?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO: Yeah. Very, very small families.  Very few families.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What you’re telling me, just so I understand this, even that small group that formed the first synagogue congregation were not all Sephardim?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=183.0,197.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  No.  They were not all Sephardim.  There was only congregation.  There was no other congregation.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I understand.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  So it was one congregation.  And of course, much, much later, in the 1800s, that all things changed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=197.0,210.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In the meantime, that first congregation sat in Mill Street in a place where there used to be a gristmill originally.  And so, in a very modest little building which was the first synagogue.  Then, they moved, in the same street, to another, slightly bigger place.  And still, it was the Sephardim-Ashkenazim together, one congregation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=210.0,234.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And evidently, these Ashkenazim were happy with the Sephardic sounds.  Maybe they didn’t know much else.  So they were a part of the congregation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=234.0,243.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then, they moved from Mill Street — the second Mill Street synagogue — to Crosby Street, not far away.  It was already closer to uptown.  ‘Cause they moved with the population.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd from Crosby Street, they moved to an, they moved to 19th Street and Fifth Avenue.  And that’s the third synagogue.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=243.0,264.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then, from 19th Street and Fifth Avenue, they moved to here, to this place.  And this building is right now a hundred years old.  So you can imagine how they moved from place to place.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=264.0,280.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Is that where they, where the little cemetery — is that 19th Street?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  There’s a little cemetery?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=280.0,283.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  We have two little cemeteries which are not used anymore.  Yeah, which is our possession, real estate.  And our cemetery is in, in a place between Brooklyn and Queens.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But the cemetery on…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No.  It’s not used.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …the corner, down on — is it 19th Street?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=283.0,301.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah, 19th Street, yeah.  We had, there’s one old cemetery at Chatham Square, which it was an old cemetery.  We have people who fought in the Revolutionary War buried there.  But these synagogues, these cemeteries are not used anymore.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But did those people who fought in the Revolutionary War, for example, have any direct descendants that we know of?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  As you know, there are some names.  But they disappeared.  We, it is up to us to guess what happened.  But we have nothing of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=301.0,327.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We have in our synagogue an old family, the Nathan family, and they, their history goes back for many generations.  But otherwise, most of the people here have maybe — and nowadays, they have grandfathers who are known, who are well-known, and Jewish.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=327.0,347.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But most of the people are rather new members, or rather, the families are fairly new to history. And from the old generations, there is nothing left here.  They may have disappeared to other places.  \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Mmhm mmhm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO: Or the families were, had no children, or something like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=347.0,367.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  So there are no people here, really, that go to keep up the graves of those little cemeteries?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No, no.  Yeah, we take care of the graves.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  As a congregation.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, the congregation takes care of them.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But there are no direct descendants.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No direct, no.  Nobody’s going to visit the grave and the cemetery on 19th Street.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=367.0,382.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Not even one?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Huh?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Not even one family?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No.  Not even one.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Interesting.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Occasionally we get a tourist, which we have to get the key, and so forth.  But there is nothing unless there is — and there is, they have a caretaker, somebody who lives in that neighborhood who takes care that they don’t throw garbage all over the place.  But there’s a virtual — there’s a value to us, but not of the Jewish community.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=382.0,405.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  The congregation doesn’t have records?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, the congregation has records.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Does the congregation go back that far?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, we have records.  As a matter of fact, Dr. Pool, de Sola Pool, the late de Sola Pool, wrote a book about the cemeteries.  Portraits Etched in Stone.  Which is, it could be that the congregation would have a copy or so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=405.0,425.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But it is not being traded anymore.  And besides that, he wrote a book about the congregation.  You must have heard it, of the congregation.  And which was written on the occasion of the tercentenary, in 1954.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=425.0,439.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But the book about the cemeteries gives a whole list of names and the locations and the history of it.  Most interesting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=439.0,446.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Do we know where those original 23 people, and so forth, where they came from in Europe?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Long story, but interesting story. After the expulsion from Spain and Portugal, many Jews had to leave, unless they became Catholics.  And they had to leave because their life would be miserable.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=446.0,467.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, some Jews went to Morocco, which is close by, in the hope that they could return very soon to Portugal and Spain.  Then, a number of Jews went — it’s interesting — to Turkey.  Turkey had its gates open.  Up till today, they boast about that.  And we have a number of Turkish Jews still living in peace in Turkey.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=467.0,489.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then, a number of Jews went to my country, to Holland, where you had quite a Jewish community.  Marranos and so forth, and some say, even the people who are not marranos, but just, they wanted to get out and they left Amsterdam — my congregation — which I left.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=489.0,506.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My great-grandfather, also Lopes Cardozo, David Lopes Cardozo, was rabbi in Amsterdam.  And among the pictures you have here there is a picture of his.  And he was the last rabbi who preached in the Portuguese language.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=506.0,525.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But the Portuguese language, which was known to these people in those days, became less known to the younger generations, like Yiddish with the people here.  And so, the people after my great-grandfather, they listened to a sermon in Dutch.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=525.0,546.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But we still have remainders in the synagogue in Amsterdam of some Portuguese.  For example, up till now — and most people don’t understand it well — but the prayer for the government is set, is set, also, a part of it, set in the Portuguese language.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=546.0,563.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah.  Now.  That goes something like (Sings in Portuguese).  And it ends that way, and (sings), and then it goes, it continues.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=563.0,587.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I’m told that at here, it was always the custom to have, in the Portuguese language, a government, prayer for the government here.  And, but then, it was changed longer than a hundred years ago, in English, which is still invoked today.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=587.0,605.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Isn’t there still some vestige of Portuguese language in this congregation?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Here?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s something I heard once.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No, I tell you.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The Constitution, and the board members, or something like that.  Annual board meeting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=605.0,618.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah, the — some parts of the meetings, long ago, were still kept in Portuguese.  But also, this was the time that Portuguese, that some people were here who indirectly came from Portugal and knew some Portuguese.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=618.0,633.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We do have a vestige, some remnant of what sounds like Portuguese, but it’s really Spanish, in our service, or rather, in our home service.  Now, this we sing at the end of the grace after meals.  We sing Bendigamos.  And it goes, there’s a melody…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: How does it go?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=633.0,650.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  (Sings in Portuguese)  And the end it says, (sings)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=650.0,685.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, I want to add, right away, the following.  The melody is the melody of a, of a part of the service on Shabbat morning.  The Az Yashir Moshe, the shira, we use the same melody.  (Sings)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=685.0,713.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it’s being said — at least, Dr. Pool has always told me — that that’s one of the oldest known melodies, old melodies, that Shira (inaudible).","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=713.0,723.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  So, now, but in Bendigamos, that’s not really Portuguese.  That’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No, it is more like old Spanish.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Castilian Spanish?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  Castilian Spanish.  And it’s certainly not Latino, by the way.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.  And that we sing with the zmirot.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Friday night, at the table?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=723.0,743.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah.  Friday night at the table.  Yeah, at the end, at the end of — and it’s not a, shall I say, a Halakhic duty to sing it.  It is more an embellishment.  We do it after the Birkat Hamazon. And by the way, the contents of that Bendigamos is the short form of Birkat Hamazon, so to speak.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=743.0,760.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  You mean the translation?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, the translation.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, that’s interesting.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I didn’t know that.  Now, tell me — that melody, do you think that Jews in Colonial America, in 200 years ago, let’s say…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, definitely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=760.0,775.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  They sang that melody?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Definitely. By the way, it also known in Curaçao.  It is also known in some old congregations in France.  Because we have proof that they used to sing a note so different, they used to sing that.  And of course, in Holland, we’d sing the same thing.  And it’s an old, old custom.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=775.0,796.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  So did the, most or all of the initial Jews in this 23-member group come from Amsterdam?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No, not to say.  No, maybe not.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Where did they come from?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=796.0,809.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  I don’t know.  Because they came… some of them came from Holland, that’s true, and they didn’t want to go to Morocco, so they went to South America.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=809.0,821.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, they went to Recife, Pernambuco.  And at that time, the Inquisition had not entered in that community.  But then, the Inquisition came, and they had to leave again.  And some of them went to Suriname, where I was the rabbi during the war years, from 1939 till 1945, 1946.  And to Curaçao.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=821.0,849.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So see, people think that Curaçao is the oldest community.  It so happens that Suriname is two years older.  Yeah.  But they went there. And of course, and then there were people going around and looking on the, there was, about the same time, is it that the people, the 23 Jews came here.  About the same time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=849.0,869.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  But they didn’t all come from Amsterdam?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Not necessarily. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Probably no.  I mean, I have no proof that they all came from Amsterdam.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But they all came from Western Europe.  None of them came from…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  They came from Western Europe.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Western Europe.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What other cit-- They didn’t come from Morocco?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So, where else in…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=869.0,883.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah, well, I’ll tell you, it could be theoretically that some Jews from Morocco — I don’t know — went straight from Morocco to the south.  You know, there is a lot, Jews like to travel.  So they were forced to travel, and they were looking for — it was a very good idea to go to South America.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=883.0,901.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Because the Jews in Suriname, for example, they did very well on plantations.  They did very well.  They had their own community, and, and I visited it there.  And it was a city by itself.  And they had good income.  The sugar plantations, cocoa, and some others.  And they did well.  And then, later on, they moved to Paramaribo, where I was the rabbi.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=901.0,922.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And interestingly, I want to add right away that Paramaribo had, in my time, and also for a long time, two congregations.  One was the Sephardic congregation, where I was the rabbi, and then there was an Ashkenazi congregation, who had a man from Holland.  And when he left, I took over, so I had two congregations.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=922.0,941.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The interesting thing is, that how do you know who is a member of this one or that?  The people with Sephardic names were members of the Sephardic congregation.  The other people, they had — Levy — of course, Levy could be Sephardic, too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=941.0,955.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But a number of Ashkenazic names.  And they had the same pronunciation.  There was really no, no reason why they should be separated, but, except the families, some of them who had come to Holland — from Holland.  So, they — and they have also two cemeteries there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=955.0,970.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The sad thing is, now, nowadays, that they have no rabbi.  And they cannot even muster a minyan on Shabbat between the two congregations.  But they have two cemeteries and two synagogues.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=970.0,982.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  The, I gather, from what you’ve said so far, that you were born in Holland?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Born in Amsterdam, Holland, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And your family goes back maybe all the way to…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, they go back at least to 1700s.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  To the Amsterdam community?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, the Amsterdam, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Was that the synagogue in the famous…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …synagogue…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=982.0,1003.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  It was.  We lived just opposite that famous old synagogue, which is 300-odd years old.  And as a boy, I sang in the choir.  It was a special service, it was a special service that — on a Friday afternoon, with music, with orchestra and choir.  I sang in a boys’ choir then.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  With the orchestra?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Huh?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  With the orchestra?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1003.0,1027.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah, on Friday afternoon.  Not on Shabbat.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I understand that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No, it was — yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What kind of thing did you…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  And, no.  They had all the violins and everything.  It was beautiful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1027.0,1036.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  But what kind of music?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No, synagogue music, yeah, yeah.  But yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  For minha or for Kabbalat Shabbat?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No, no, no, no.  But before.  It was at 1:00 Friday afternoon.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, you mean, just…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, it was a — they did that because, originally, at the dedication of the synagogue in 1675, they also had music on a Friday afternoon.  They followed that example.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1036.0,1060.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But it was an unforgettable service.  And I still have — the boys and the men who participated, they got a picture of the synagogue in gold.  And on the back it was written — I have a proof that I sang in it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And this went every Friday afternoon?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  On a Friday afternoon.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Every Friday afternoon?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No, no, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, no.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1060.0,1080.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  It was the special service.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, just the one time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, it was one time.  Of course, yeah.  They had a special bridge built in the synagogue, with stairways. It was something very special.  I don’t think they could repeat that easily.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1080.0,1095.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And did you, you sang in the choir on Shabbat and holidays as a boy?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah.  No, with the choir in Holland, which we had.  Of course, it was a volunteer choir, unlike nowadays.  And we have a professional choir here, which is very unique.  Every Friday and Shabbat and Leon Hyman is the choirmaster.  Very capable choirmaster.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1095.0,1115.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But the, the choir I sang in, men and — my father used to sing in the choir, too, and my brothers, too.  They all were, went to Poland and didn’t come back (the Shoah).  But they, that choir sang only on — not a regular Shabbotot, only special Shabbatot, and holidays, and holy days.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1115.0,1142.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, because there was no need for a choir.  People would sing.  And by the way, this is the disadvantage of having a choir.  Also in our synagogue.  Because the choir is singing, and people relax.  They just listen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1142.0,1156.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Tell me about the, when you sang in the choir, so, whether it was a holiday or a special Shabbat…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Was this in four-part harmony or was it in unison?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1156.0,1167.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  I’ll tell you.  Most was in unison.  But not everything.  There were some four-part arrangements.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  By whom?  Do you know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1167.0,1178.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah.  Some of them, the arrangements were old, I don’t know who did it.  We used to have somebody who — but when I came, we had music books.  And I don’t know who made the arrangements.  I don’t know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1178.0,1191.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I happen to know somebody who was studying it with us.  It’s not — Mr. Ullman.  Who made compositions, too, but not for us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1191.0,1201.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  But these were all the strictly traditional, Sephardi melodies?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, traditional Sephardic melodies.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Harmonized? Sometimes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, harmonized. You see, some of the melodies were not ancient melodies.  They were not ancient melodies.  Because even here in the congregation, we have some melodies which are not ancient melodies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1201.0,1219.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We have some old melodies, like, for example, they say also that the priestly blessing melody is old, like (sings).","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1219.0,1250.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, there is one melody which seems to be quite old.  There is the melody for the Psalm of Shabbat, which is done on Friday night.  Because it goes as follows, and I’ll start a little high, because it goes low.  (Sings)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1250.0,1274.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Unison. (sings) Etcetera, etcetera. You see, our melodies are most, very repetitive.  Very repetitive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1274.0,1287.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, we do have, on special occasions, melodies which are not ancient, but are very pleasing to the ear.  They say, for example, that we have an, for a tikkun ha’tal on Pesach, we sing a melody which resembles very much the Hatikvah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1287.0,1314.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the story goes that Naftali Herz Imber, before he composed it, supposedly, he composed the melody as well as the words.  And before he composed the Hatikvah, passed by the Sephardic synagogue in London.  And they were singing the tikkun ha’tal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1314.0,1335.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, that melody, particular melody, goes as follows — (sings).  And then, the antiphonal melody is — (sings).","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1335.0,1358.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And some people say that Imber was inspired by that melodies when he started (sings the beginning of Hatikvah).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  A number of years ago, there was somebody called John Levy, in London, at Bevis Marks.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And I don’t know if you ever saw them, but he put out some recordings.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Of the synagogue?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1358.0,1380.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Of Bevis Marks in London.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah.  Yeah, I have them.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You have them, okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So, on those recordings, you have the choir, but it’s only unison — there’s no harmony.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Unlike here, the choir sings in four-part harmonizations…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yes, yeah, okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …that they may have some by Kramer, and some by…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yes, I know.  You are right.  And Kramer made beautiful…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But they’re all, they’re not really Sephardi tradition.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  They’re Western, Germanic harmonies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1380.0,1404.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Most of it.  Because we, we Jews have the problem that in all the countries where we live, that we assimilate to the melodies of the, of the country. In Holland, for example, you had the melodies in the synagogue, we had — I’ll sing one melody, which doesn’t sound like ancient, like (sings).","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1404.0,1440.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It’s not an old, ancient melody.  Maybe, it may be nice, but — and I can mention to you and remember other melodies. You see, we had a choir, and I would sing, for example, they would sing unison in the beautiful first part of the Shabbat morning service of the Yotzer Or.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1440.0,1457.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"(Sings)  All unison.  (Sings)  And so forth and so forth.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1457.0,1478.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  When they take a melody — let’s take, for example, a Hashkiveinu.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Hashkiveinu.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  (Sings)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, that’s a, to start with, would you say that’s an old melody?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, not as — I don’t know how old it is.  Because it is difficult to estimate.  But I know one thing — it came from Suriname.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1478.0,1500.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hashkiveinu came from Suriname.  ‘Cause they used to sing it in Suriname, I’m told, long before we sang it here.  Yeah, and it’s really, it’s unison.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, Moroccan Jews know the same melody without the meter.  Without the meter.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah. By the way, Moroccan Jews have a number of melodies which we have, too.  And they may be old melodies.  There’s, like, besides Hashkiveinu, when you come in a Moroccan congregation in Israel, many come, you sing, for example, the melody which we sing also, for the returning the Sefer Torah to the hekhal.  (Sings)  Except they sing (sings).","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1500.0,1545.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  It’s a variant.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But would you say that melody, or the Hashkiveinu — these could have been things that were sung in Colonial America?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  Could be.  But of course, who, who will, who will say for certain?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1545.0,1560.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Well, if it’s a melody that goes back to Amsterdam…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  If it was in Amsterdam in the 17th century…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Now, of course, it could be, very well be sung in Colonial.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  If we consider it was Amsterdam in the 17th, then we can say it was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  Right.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, for example, the Aleinu l’shabeich la’adon hakol…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1560.0,1580.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Is this from Gibraltar, or is this from Suriname, or is this from Curaçao?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No.  I’ll tell you. In Holland, which is part of the American congregation of this congregation, too, where I was brought up, Aleinu l’shabeyakh was never sung, except in Rosh Hashanah in the Musaf.  You see?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1580.0,1598.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We sing, (sing).  And that same song.  Same song.  (Sings)  In that same atmosphere of melody.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1598.0,1612.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  You use that melody here now for Rosh Hashanah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  We have…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The (INAUDIBLE).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  But the melody we sing was introduced by Dr. de Sola Pool.  Because knowing that if you just sing, just say it, that many people may not say it, may not be in the mood for it.  So he said, he introduced it, (sings).  It was very, a very good idea.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1612.0,1641.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  I thought you introduced that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Huh?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I thought was something you brought.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  To the congregation.  So where did he get it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, I don’t know.  No, it was a very simple — (sings).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, that’s very pretty.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, it’s very pretty.  And I wished that they had that in Amsterdam, too.  Because it would, more people (would) really participate.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1641.0,1661.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Now, how do we know, or do we know, how the choir was made up here, how far back it goes?  I mean, and then, there’s going to be the same question about did you have boys?  When did you stop having boys?  Because, at least for the past 30 years, there are no boys in the choir.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, in London, they would have boys in the choir.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1661.0,1681.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  They still have boys, now.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  They still have boys, and it’s beautiful.  That is how you can learn.  If you sing in the choir…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But in London, they think, well, even, at Bevis Marks they don’t, but you know, in Maida Vale…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  In Maida Vale, they do…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Which is still going strong, Maida Vale.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  But to answer your question…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What about here?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1681.0,1702.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  …about here, I, I’m told by a witness of, who lived in the last part of the existence of the synagogue 19th Street, so it goes back now a hundred years plus.  We used to have a congregant by, when I came here — that is, 50 years ago — let alone in 50 years, a member by the name of Captain Phillips.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1702.0,1727.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He used to be Captain of the Army.  He was also President at one time.  A very clever man.  With a good memory, and also musical. He used to tell me that they had, in 19th Street synagogue, the choir sang exactly like here — on Friday night and Shabbat.  And he told me that, very often, on Shabbat morning, there was hardly a minyan.  Hardly a minyan.  But the choir used to sing just as slowly as ever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1727.0,1752.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So it goes to show you that in 19th Street synagogue they had the choir, and about the other synagogues — Mill Street, or — I can’t imagine that they had a choir.  Crosby Street, I don’t know.  But…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1752.0,1765.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Well, what’s the earliest—isn’t the earliest—what’s the earliest record of any choir connected with this synagogue? This congregation?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO: You might by chance find it at Dr. Pool’s book, but even that I doubt it. I have no idea.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: But okay, so even on the, let’s say in the Mill Street’s—I mean in the 19th Street.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1765.0,1782.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Do we know whether they had boys in the choir?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO: No, that I don’t know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: In your time, in the time that you’ve been here, in the middle of the 50s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO: Yeah, they tried a few times, a few boys, but it didn’t… We talked about it, we’ll talk about it again, now.  But as we live in a different world…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  When you came to this congregation, it was only…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1782.0,1800.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  No, only men.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Only men.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Only men.  I rarely had boys — it happened only as an experiment.  But it was doomed.  So we had the men, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And yet, the Amsterdam tradition did include boys?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  Include boys, yeah.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So one wonders why…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  And I, and after all the holiday singing, they used to give as present — funny, you’ll laugh — a package of cigarettes.  In those days, nicotine was not dangerous.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1800.0,1830.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  But, and so, we didn’t get paid.  But we enjoyed it.  So…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Aggravation is dangerous.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  So it was good for the voice, maybe. But no.  We had a good time.  I really learned a lot from singing in the choir.  We had nice, very nice compositions.  Many of these compositions have been lost.  Yeah they are written up, but our congregation usually doesn’t take over from what Holland had.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1830.0,1856.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Because Holland had some compositions which were not so old.  And here, they are careful.  Because, as I told you before, everything is frozen here.  Except we have introduced here some melodies by Rossi.  And it is not so easy to sing Rossi.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1856.0,1874.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, for example, we sing from Rossi an adon olam, which is very difficult to sing, but of course, it’s with various voices.  (Sings adon olam)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1874.0,1891.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then, the rest is a more — (sings).  And we have other, one other melody. And there’s an interesting thing about melodies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1891.0,1904.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In Holland, the Sephardim are very careful not to sing, if they knew they were Ashkenazic, not to sing Ashkenazic melodies.  Because they say it didn’t fit.  So, it so happened that everybody in the world sings Maoz Tsur — (sings).","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1904.0,1921.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, this congregation, having a mixed, mixed membership, we have, in our, in our liturgy, we have no melody for Hanukkah.  So what they do here, and it must have started maybe a hundred years ago, they took the Maoz Tsur melody — but not the words, just the melody.  So with the result that we sing Hallel — (sings).","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1921.0,1949.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  But they do that in many Ashkenazic, in Germany, they did that, too.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  Yeah, they do it, too.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  But you don’t, you have Maoz Tsur in the text, or no?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No.  Not the text.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You don’t have it in the text, that’s why.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, I know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  If we talk for a moment about you, now.  You’re…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO: Me?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …we know that you come, your family is solidly of Dutch tradition.  But you came here in…when?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1949.0,1974.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Well, I’ll tell you.  No, before I came here, I was in other places. I, I knew — I attended the Etz Chaim Seminary in Amsterdam.  But I knew, looking around me, I knew that my future in Holland would, may be not so brilliant, because the people in our synagogue, the hazzanim, were not old, and there was one other Sephardic synagogue in The Hague.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=1974.0,2006.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But it was a small synagogue, and there was not much going on. So I had the feeling that I might have to leave the country and go some other place, a Sephardic synagogue.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So you say you went to the seminary, where was that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  In Amsterdam.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  In Amsterdam?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And this was really — what, this was a rabbinical seminary?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2006.0,2026.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  There was no place — I mean, in terms of musical training…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Oh, yeah, I expected that question.  Because there was no cantorial institute, like you have here.  There was none.  So my training ground was the synagogue.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2026.0,2040.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I learned everything from the synagogue. I was very friendly with the two hazzanim, so whenever I had a question, be it Hazzan Blandis, the older one, Hazzan Ducher — both of them had beautiful voices.  So I would ask a question, so at any time, I’d get information.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2040.0,2055.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But there was no, no teacher of hazzanut.  So I learned the reading of Torah, also.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eWe had also a youth society, which met every Shabbat afternoon.  Synagogue was over — by the way, the synagogue in the morning, Shabbat morning, started at eight o’clock.  And synagogue was over at twenty past ten.  Very fast.  Twenty past ten.  So we lived close by, so — and most of us lived close by.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2055.0,2084.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then, at twelve o’clock, we had a meeting in the building close to the synagogue of our organization.  It was called Hagomel.  Hagomel Hasidim La’anayim.  Anyway, and there we had a shiur from twelve thirty, and then we read the parashah of the morning there, and we all got assignments.  This was my training ground, you see, and also, other people’s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2084.0,2111.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then, at one thirty, we did the minha.  This was also, one did the minha, one the parashah.  That was all. And some people came from that synagogue, from that organization and they became, and we had a rabbi in Holl-- in Israel now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2111.0,2129.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He had his learning in the organization.  He’s not alive anymore.  I’m one of the few people left of the….  So, that was my…. In our synagogue, we didn’t get a chance to do services.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2129.0,2144.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, once we had, we had something.  We read on Shavout, we read the Megillat Ruth, and on Pesach, the Megillat Shir Hashirim.  And for that, that was done before minha in the afternoon, and that was, laymen could also participate.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2144.0,2163.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I was one of the laymen who participated, who took a little part of it.  That was — yeah, and for Selichot, we had four weeks before, Selichot at 6:00 in the morning, and then turns were given.  I had also one turn.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eThat was my only public service record in the big synagogue.  Otherwise there was no chance.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2163.0,2184.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Well, I mean, in the Sephardi tradition, there was a different relationship between the words “rabbi” and “hazzan.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Oh, yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Than there is in the Ashkenazi tradition.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  Well, the rabbi that occasionally would sing, for example, The Ten Commandments, etcetera, a thing like that.  But he would be, he would be doing his rabbinical duties more.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2184.0,2203.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I, but I was, I knew for sure that I had to go out, in order to make a living.  So I prepared myself by also, besides my, besides my general training, also I learned for shochet and mohel, because I knew that I would need it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2203.0,2227.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so, in February 1939 — it was before the War — there was an announcement in the Jewish paper asking for a rabbi in Suriname.  And to make a long story short, there were more candidates — one candidate, candidate was a man who I knew very well.  He was married, had five children, and he was the hazzan in Hamburg.  By the way, our friend Edwin (Seroussi) wrote about it extensively.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2227.0,2254.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Anyway, so I knew that man.  He was a very nice person.  And, but he had to flee in November, after Kristallnacht. And then he, I knew he, he knew that I had also applied.  And he used to come — we sent letters in February.  It was not until June that the answer came.  I got the answer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2254.0,2277.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Anyway, he used to come to me in the interim, to ask me, “Did you hear something?” I said, “No.”  And I told him, honestly speaking, if I hear that he gets it, I would be happy.  The man had no parnasah.  Nebbech — he didn’t survive the War.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2277.0,2294.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the War started just a few months later.  That was when I went to Suriname in August 22nd, 1939.  And in, on May 10th, following year, 1940, Hitler invaded Holland, Belgium, and France.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2294.0,2314.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the interesting thing is, I was paid by the government.  The government paid for the priests and the rabbis.  And I got my, my trip paid, and at that time, no plane yet, but by boat, and so forth.  And so, I had a kind of independent position in the congregation.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You came there by yourself?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  I was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You left your family, and your parents…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2314.0,2335.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah.  I was never out of Holland.  A poor boy.  Never got out of Holland.  And a year later, a rich man couldn’t get out of Holland.  And like a nissim ma’hashamayim, I, I got that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd when I was in Suriname, in the beginning — that was before the War started — some people told me, I had a whole house available for myself.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2335.0,2356.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And some people told me, why don’t you ask your parents to come?  And I asked them.  They said they weren’t interested.  There.  You just, you don’t plant a, bring a tree out from, to another place.  So that was the story.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2356.0,2370.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I was there, and it was interesting, in the tropics.  And it was interesting — they had some refugees from Belgium and Holland.  So the congregation was a bit strengthened by that.  We had shiurim, we made Pes….  We had also American soldiers stationed there to protect the bauxite mines, you see.  So a number of Jews were there, Jewish soldiers were there.  I wouldn’t say I had a good time, but it was very interesting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2370.0,2396.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But then, I asked for a little vacation.  And so, I came here in the beginning of 1945.  It was just the time.  I was here when Dr. — I told you, before — when Dr. Pool, de Sola Pool, had his 60th birthday.  It was a big celebration.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2396.0,2414.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so, when I came here, they, after a couple of weeks, they knew who I was, and they asked me to read the Torah.  So I read the Torah.  And then, I was teaching school, and this and that.  And they asked me to stay.  And I told them that I cannot do that.  I, I don’t, cannot be a traitor to my congregation.  I’m here temporarily, I’m here on a vacation.  Anyway, I told them they can write to me when I’m back.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2414.0,2439.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Anyway, and they did, and I decided to leave.  Which was a good thing, because the congregation did not grow very well after me.  It was already on the way down.  ‘Cause there is no immigration.  You see, there, there is no new blood coming in that congregation.  It is too far away from the mainland.  Curaçao is closer by. But Suriname is so far.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2439.0,2460.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Curaçao is near Brazil.  And the climate is not so easy.  I mean, you have Curaçao — Suriname is — by the way, it was then part of Holland.  But now, it is already, for yet many years, independent.  It is, another name for Suriname is Dutch Guyana.  And it was that British Guyana, and French Guyana was the place where they sent Dreyfuss to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2460.0,2483.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, not an easy climate.  But you can live there very well, if, if you have your air conditioning, etcetera, etcetera. So then we came here.  And I started 1st January of ’46, and I have been here ever since.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2483.0,2498.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And when they hired, when they engaged you, they engaged you as Hazzan of the congregation?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And who was the rabbi at that time?  Was it Dr. de Sola Pool?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Dr. de Sola Pool, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He, he…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  And when I came, Rabbi Gerstein had just come here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well he just graduated from the…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2498.0,2517.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah. Yeah. He had come here, he had come here in ’42.  And I came here at, well, I was here in ’45, he was already here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And he was here as the assistant at that time?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  Right.  And later on, became associate, then he became the rabbi.  But he…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And he was Ashkenazi?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Huh?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He was Ashkenazi?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, and how.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2517.0,2535.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Now, how did the congregation engage an Ashkenazi rabbi?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Because it was not difficult for them.  Some of them are Ashkenazim.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So there was no argument in the board at that time?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No, no real argument.  They wanted somebody who can preach well, which he did.  Who has a good voice, which he had.  Who was knowledgeable.  He had, he had all the maiylas, all the maylot.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, where did he learn, for example — he had to learn all the melodies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2535.0,2561.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah, interesting.  He told me once that the hazzan who was here before was very sick.  And this, he learned from there, he went to the man’s house, and he learned from him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBut he was so clever that he also, he picked up melodies from people.  He would hear somebody sing it, and they would…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2561.0,2583.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And he also picked up more than that.  He picked up even the inflection of the voice.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Inflection, absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Right?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Well, he was a very fine man.  We still, some people are still talking about him.  He was — it was a shame.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He just died what?  About two years ago?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2583.0,2596.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah.  He had a lot of tsarot, yeah. First of all, he lost his wife, who went before him.  And then he had heart surgery, and they had to — it was a very, so complicated that they didn’t want to operate him here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2596.0,2614.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He had to go to Milwaukee.  Yeah, because it was too — they didn’t want to take a chance.  He was very sick.  But he came out of it.  And he used to come to synagogue, even alone. But his children are in Israel, you know.  His daughter married very well, and his son, who was a doctor in California, is also in Israel now.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, he, for example, when it came to the kriyat haTorah…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2614.0,2640.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …who does that in this congregation?  The hazzan?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  The hazzan.  Yeah. Well, for example, right now, we have Rabbi Angel — he’s the new one.  And we have a hazzan who is also an Ashkenazi, Ira Rohde.  You might have known him, maybe.  He used to go to the Yeshiva Cantorial Institute.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2640.0,2662.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"By the way, I have been teaching at the Cantorial Institute for a number of years, and I gave it over to him, to Ira Rohde, who is, he is extremely musical.  He picked up everything beautifully.  There are some complicated melodies.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  How long has been here?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  About five, six years only.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He’s not, he’s Ashkenazi?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I don’t know why I thought there was somebody here who was Moroccan, originally.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2662.0,2683.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  No, no.  Maybe, at one time, we had maybe a Moroccan for a few months.  No, but he is the steady hazzan.  His official title is hazzan.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He’s the hazzan of the congregation.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  Of the congregation. But you see, the rabbis have to do the service, too.  So, and therefore, they change off.  But very often, he had last week, he knows all the festive melodies.  He knows it all very well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2683.0,2705.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  It was always, though, the duty of the, or the privilege or both or the mitzvah of the hazzan, in your case, here, at this congregation, to read, to do the kriyat haTorah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Whereas in an Ashkenazi synagogue, the hazzan only does it if they can’t find somebody else.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah, yeah.  No, okay, because they work with volunteers.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, and we have the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Would you say that was a major part of…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No.  No, we have no volunteers here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2705.0,2731.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  But even if you did.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Huh?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Even if you did.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  No, we don’t let them do it. You see, the problem is, we let the — I have been teaching bar mitzvah boys for, about 400 boys, in the course of the years.  And we used to, so I know, more or less, which boy has a voice or not.  And sometimes, I would not give a boy to read the whole parasha if he was extremely unmusical.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2731.0,2756.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I would just do it, have him do a few pasukim.  And sometimes, I was criticized by parents, and they say, “You let him do everything, but you don’t do that.” So we have also, we occasionally, we had youth services, to read the Musaf.  And we have a few boys I could not let them read because it sounded terrible.  You see, and then one mother came to me, once, to say, “You let him do it, and why don’t you let my son do it?”  So, you see.  But it is difficult to judge.  But our congregation is so careful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2756.0,2786.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  So you made a policy, do I understand that there was then a policy that…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Policy.  Now, the only thing a layman can do is the first part of the p’sukei d’zimra.  First, there’s, like we call the z’mirot on Shabbat morning that goes till Nishmat.  You call it Shochen Ad.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2786.0,2802.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That can be done by a layman.  Provided he can read Hebrew and he is fairly musical.  And then, the Haftorah.  The Haftorah can be done by a layman. Yeah, also, they have to check in, because if they do it not our way, they cannot do it, either.  It has to be our way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2802.0,2820.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  When you, you’re talking about the ta’amay hamikrah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The cantillation in the Western Sephardi…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  You want to hear it for the parasha and Haftorah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yes, please. Yes, both. Let me hear a little…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Now, for example, the say parasha.  Which first parasha shall I take?  You tell me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2820.0,2837.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Noach.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No, it doesn’t matter.  (Sings)  I’ll give you another example, Sh’ma Israel.  (Sings the Sh’ma)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2837.0,2880.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That’s parasha.  Now, Haftorah. Interesting — the Haftorah melody, including the blessings, is very similar to the one the Moroccans have.  We start off, the melodies, the blessing is as follows.  (Sings)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2880.0,2919.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"By the way, there’s an interesting feature of that Haftorah.  Also, in the blessings already.  The last words, the ending of them, has also an ending melody.  (Sings)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2919.0,2933.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The Haftorah, too, every ending of a pasuk goes (sings). Now, if you’re not in the melody in the Haftorah, for example — (sings).","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2933.0,2950.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now comes the ending melody — (sings). Every ending of a pasuk has that special ending melody.  And it’s more melodious than parasha.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yes, it is.  That’s a very old cantillation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2950.0,2967.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah, it’s old.  Of course, Idelson showed it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Idelson showed it, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  But by comparing the Torah reading in Jerusalem, when he saw all these various tribes, and so on and so forth.  He said, because nobody’s changing that on purpose.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.  So it’s safe to say that, at least that the Haftorah, for example…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2967.0,2987.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And the, the Parashat Hashavua, and all this, this is the same melody — we’re using the word “melody,” but you know what I mean — that would have been used in Colonial America?  If they read the Torah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Could be.  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=2987.0,3000.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  It would have been read the same way?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  Probably. I must tell you a funny story.  It happened to me a number of years ago, on Tisha B’Av.  We knew somebody who was in the board of Kol Yisrael, on the radio, Kol Yisrael Radio.  And he was here, and we told him we are planning to be here on Tisha B’Av.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3000.0,3022.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He said, “Can I ask you a favor?” I said, “What?” He says, “You know, we have on Kol, on Tisha b’av evening, we have a broadcast from the kotel, from the Wall, at eight o’clock.  And we invite a number of people to sing their melodies.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3022.0,3039.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, it was an interesting idea — people from, I don’t know — from Turkey and from Morocco and so forth.  I said, “Fine, okay.  We’ll make arrangements.” So, I came there with my wife to that, to the truck where they have the radio things and so on.  And when it was my turn — before I went, I took my prayer book with me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3039.0,3064.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I thought that it would be interesting to sing a melody which I thought the others don’t have.  So I listened to a few of them.  I said, so okay, then I, then it came my turn.  And he asked my name, and so on and so forth.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3064.0,3079.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, now we have a melody on Tisha B’Av which is most interesting, which Ashkenazim don’t have and it is in my book.  That is, it started with the words, “Mah Nishtanah.”  Why?  Because Tisha B’Av falls always on the same day of the week as the first night Pesach.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3079.0,3100.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that piyyut compares Tisha b’av with Pesach.  And it’s the same words, as you will hear in a moment, as (inaudible).  (Sings)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3100.0,3125.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the whole congregation sings it along.  So I thought it would be a nice melody.  So I sang that, and it was interesting. So I went, I said to my wife, “I’m not going to stay there.”  There was thousands of people there, all sitting on the floor.  So we left.  And on our way back, I heard a group of Moroccans singing the same melody.  I thought mine was unique.  It wasn’t.  They had the same thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3125.0,3147.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  With the same rhythm?  Or with a different rhythm?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  Yeah.  Yeah, the same rhythm and everything else.  Yeah, I mean, (sings).  Oh, yeah.  But the same idea.  And I thought we are unique — we are not.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So this is the kind of thing that is common to all, probably all Sephardim.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, it travels.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Whether Mediterranean, or…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3147.0,3162.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Travels all over. And a number of years ago, when I was in the synagogue in Yerushalayim, a Sephardic synagogue, and just for the three weeks.  And now, we have a special three-week melody, different for Haftorah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  For Haftorah?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3162.0,3180.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah.  It’s very interesting.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  How about for l’kah dodi?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You know why I’m asking?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Because the Germans…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah.  They…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The German Jews have a special…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  A special melody for that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  During the three weeks for l’kah dodi.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  l’kah dodi.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3180.0,3193.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And just like they have during Sefira.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Oh, yeah.  That I don’t know well.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But you don’t have that tradition in Sephardic?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You have…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But you do, it’s pretty much the same idea.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  We do l’kha dodi the same.  Yeah, and I’ll tell you, in the three weeks, we sing a kind of, in a sense, it’s a different melody, but it’s the melody we use for kaddish, too.  But it’s (Sings).  And that goes, everything goes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3193.0,3220.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  But that’s, that melody — I think I’ve heard that here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah, I know.  We sing it also on Friday nights, for certain things.  But the l’kah dodi — for the three weeks, we use everything on that melody.  Everything.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  As a theme?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, as a theme.  A leitmotif, yes.  A theme.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  A leitmotif.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And how far — and that’s an old tradition?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, an old tradition.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It probably goes back to Amsterdam.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, Amsterdam, definitely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  In the 17th century.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3220.0,3240.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Definitely Amsterdam.  Now, we sing…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, how did that happen?  What is there about that theme that became associated with the three weeks?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  I thought because it is so simple.  I think it was because simple — (sings).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBut you see, there is a whole confusion, because we sing on Friday night the kaddish.  On Friday night — (sings).  So there’s a confusion somewhere in it which, which grew.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3240.0,3266.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  But it has become a leitmotif of all these composers…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, become a leitmotif for three weeks.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …for the three weeks.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Now…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And what about on Shabbat Chazon?  The same thing, or is…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  And the same thing.  No, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Because again…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah.  No, on Shabbat Chazon, yeah, it is a variation.  Now, the melody remains the same.  Now, except we use the Shabbat Chazon melody more often.  It’s getting confusing.  Much confusion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3266.0,3286.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  No, it’s the same thing.  I mean, in other words, in Germany, there were some congregations that used the, a certain l’kah dodi for all three, all three Shabboses during the three weeks.  And then there were others who used a different one each of the three.  And then there were others that used one for the first two, and Shabbat Chazon, one special for Shabbat Chazon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3286.0,3305.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah.  They used to call it in Holland, the Ashkenazim called it Svartz Shabbat — The Black Shabbat.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Instead of Shabbat Chazon?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Interesting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3305.0,3312.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  But then I’ll tell you something interesting about that Haftorah.  It was, I think, I don’t know if it was Chazon, (?) — one of the three Shabbatot.  And I sang that melody, which is a nice melody.  But it goes, the first one, dibrei — I’ll sing dibrei, it doesn’t matter.  (Sings)  We used the ta’amim.  (Sings)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3312.0,3353.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was a very nice melody, but I have the ta’amim in my book, too.  Very interesting.  So, I sang it after I sang the Haftorah. Somebody came to me, he was from the Sudan.  And he said, “You want to hear something interesting?  We sing the same melody in the Sudan.” Isn’t it interesting, how things travel?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Are they Sephardim in the Sudan, or they…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3353.0,3374.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  These are Sephardim?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Or…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No, Sephardim, Sephardim.  A real Sephardi.  He sang the same melody.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So it goes back…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  It goes back.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …probably a long way.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  It’s interesting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3374.0,3384.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Now the, how does the Haftorah go for the three weeks?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Well, this is the Haftorah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, that’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That’s the one for all three weeks?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And what about Eikhah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Eikhah — no, Eikhah has a special melody.  We used the ta’amim for Eikhah.  I’ll tell you in a moment, because…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3384.0,3400.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  But it’s different from the Ashkenazi ta’amim.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  (Sings) Then there’s another melody.  (Sings)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3400.0,3426.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I want to think for a moment on the other melody, which is — (Sings).  That’s the melody, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3426.0,3457.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And that’s the cantillation?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah. But it’s interesting about cantillation.  We have no cantillation, we have no, we don’t use the ta’amim, the music signs, for the reading of the Megillat Esther.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No.  We have a melody, and it has this kind of pattern, but we don’t use it.  We, we don’t use the ta’amim.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3457.0,3474.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It goes as follows —  (Sings).  Or, you sing, for example — (Sings).  But without the ta’amim.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3474.0,3510.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  But if you ignore the ta’amim…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No, no…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …now, does it, if it has nothing to do with it…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Nothing to do with it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So how can somebody, how do you…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No, you have to learn it by heart.  And I’ll tell you…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s all memorized.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3510.0,3518.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah.  No, you have to memorize it, because it has a certain method.  You see — (Sings) — that’s the first part.  And it follows — (Sings).  And then comes the second part — (sings) — the middle part.  Then there is a fourth part. No, you have to learn it, really, practically by heart.  And then you see there is a certain pattern.  But forget about the ta’amim.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3518.0,3542.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: In 1945 you came here? \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO: For vacation.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Well yeah, your first exposure. So it was, of course, this building.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And, uh, there was a choir at that time here?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Do you remember who the choir master was?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO: Yeah, his name was Bress.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Bress?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO: Yeah, he came after Kramer. You mentioned Kramer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3542.0,3561.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Yeah, oh he came after Kramer?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO: After Kramer. Yeah, and Bress, he was, what shall I say, average. He was not a great…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Now was the choir at that time professional? Were they paid?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO: Yeah, no. That’s not, they were not on contract. He had a few singers, and I don’t know how the pay went. But it was not uncommon, unlike when Landau came…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3561.0,3586.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Siegfried Landau?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Siegfried Landau, 1953, in preparation for ’54, the centenary, then they were put on contracts.  And they’re still on contract.  If one cannot come here, he sent somebody else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3586.0,3598.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Yeah, I know.  But I mean, still, they were paid.  They were not volunteers.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Oh, yeah, yeah.  No, they were paid.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, they were professional singers.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah.  But they’re — for example, they did not use much music.  I don’t know whether I told you, but Landau would come to my house in preparation for his job and I gave him the music that we had.  Of course, some of the music was written down.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3598.0,3618.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But we had a very interesting poem on Rosh Hashanah about the Midrash, about the offering, Abraham offering Isaac.  And Ashkenazim don’t have it. (Hebrew, inaudible).  It’s a very nice melody.  (Sings)  Beautiful melody.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3618.0,3647.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, but it’s about something, it has about ten, 12 verses.  And it was sung by our choir, helping our congregants to sing, but they didn’t have the music.  They knew the melody, they, maybe they had, but they knew, they read it from the prayer books.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3647.0,3668.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But he put the whole thing in music.  And it’s a good thing, now, too.  Because people get very lazy.  And so, therefore, when nobody sings, they keep singing.  But he made also, variations in it.  That was Landau.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3668.0,3679.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  That was Landau.  Now, Landau…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Now, by the way — now, hold it.  You can get hold of all the music.  Everything is written down. In our time, now, we can have people — they have to be Jewish — but they don’t have to know Hebrew.  But they have to read music.  Everything is in music.  And all the variations.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3679.0,3699.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I wrote the choirmaster’s handbook years ago, so they don’t make a mistake.  So that in case Pesach falls on Saturday night, or a Friday night, what you have to add, or what you don’t sing, and so on and so forth.  And Leon Hyman is very good at that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Hyman came after Landau?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  After Landau.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Right after Landau.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3699.0,3720.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Landau was here for what?  About…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Well…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …ten years?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  At least, yeah, since 1960, or something like that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And did you know how, let’s say, a hundred years ago, when this building opened, that was a hundred years ago.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Did…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Who the choirmaster?  I don’t know.  You might…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Would they have records here?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  …we might find that in Dr. Pool’s book.  \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Uh huh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3720.0,3741.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO: Might — I don’t know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, about language.  Just so we clarify.  Ladino was never the language…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …in your time, of any members of this congregation?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No.  It was, it was not popular in Holland, either.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, that was my next question.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s really, would you say, is it — Mediterranean Jews?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3741.0,3759.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Mediterranean.  I mean, nowadays, when you speak to Jews in Turkey, they know Ladino.  Hacham Gaon, who came from Yugoslavia.  He knew all the Ladino songs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But in Amsterdam, it was not a spoken language.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No.  Nothing like that. And Ladino — by the way, speaking of Ladino, I’m told that, Ishaya Ratson (?), that Midrash about the Abraham offering, trying to offer Isaac, was sung in, and maybe is still sung in Oriental synagogues in Ladino.  And the women would cry, because it was so emotional.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3759.0,3795.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The story is very emotional. And so, at the moment it says there — this is the Midrash, as I told you — it says there that Isaac says to Abraham, “Tell my father that she doesn’t —  tell my mother that she doesn’t have to worry.  Everything is fine.”  Because he knew he would be slaughtered, so to speak.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3795.0,3811.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But Ladino is being used in synagogues, maybe more-- uh less than before.  And hardly spoken, unless you are in countries where Ladino is the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But in Suriname also, Ladino is not a spoken…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So it’s really Mediterranean.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, it doesn’t apply to this congregation.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3811.0,3835.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  In England, you generally hear the community referred as the Portuguese, not Spanish and Portuguese.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I’ve noticed that it’s more, only really, or it seems to be in America.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  That’s a good observation.  In Holland, the congregation is called Portuguese Israelite Congregation.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Not Spanish.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Right.  They don’t use the word Spanish, either in Amsterdam or in England.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Or, for that matter, in Hamburg, too.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3835.0,3860.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  There’s a whole Western European thing was referred to as the Portuguese Jews.  But why, why in America, is it Spanish and Portuguese Jews?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  I don’t know.  But it could be that maybe, among the first people, there are some people who have ties with Spain.  I really, I couldn’t explain where.  But they always used the word Spanish in addition to…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  Here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  …Portuguese.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And more so.  I mean, there may be just no particular reason for it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3860.0,3884.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  You see, there are a number of things I don’t know myself.  Just to show you I’m human.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, you’ve had a very distinguished office.  I use the European word because, here, during the past 50 years, you’ve received all sorts of distinctions, and so forth.  But first, I have to ask you, just for the record, a question which I’m sure is going to annoy you, because everyone probably asks you this for 50 years.  But is your family any relation to the Benjamin Cardozo family?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3884.0,3913.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  To the family, yes, but very far.  Because there are a number of reasons, or causes, for that. The Cardozo family is very well spread out.  And not only here, but also in — by the way, there is a Michael Cardozo in Washington, for example, whom I don’t know personally, who is also the same family.  And the, and our exponaz, Nathan’s father was with the firm together Cardozo and Nathan, something like that.  A lawyers’ firm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3913.0,3947.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There are a number of Cardozos in England.  There are Cardozos in Holland, too, even though some of them, they were killed in the Shoah.  But you’re — interesting, you find — and by the way, and that Cardozo family, Benjamin Cardozo, is one of this Cardozo family.  I think his family came from London.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3947.0,3967.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And to show you how, how widespread the family is, that we had in Holland the Hazzan Dukkeh, one of the two hazzanim.  And I taught his daughter Hebrew.  So I came to his house very often.  And I found out that his wife is Lopes-Cardozo from England, and not related to me at all.  So she will be, would be related, but I don’t know how.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3967.0,3992.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There is, Rabbi Percival is related to me, who is very well-known here, nowadays.  And Rabbi Nathan Cardozo in Bayit VeGan.  He is, he used to be with Or Sameach.  He goes, he has been giving, he gave a lecture here, too, last year.  He’s my really — he’s my second cousin.  We have the same great-grandfather, Rabbi Lopes-Cardozo, and he comes from Holland.  And I know him personally.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=3992.0,4019.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  You would you say you’re a distant, distant…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, distant, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …cousin of Benjamin Cardozo.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  By the way, there is one thing I can tell you for sure.  I am not a son, a grandson for — you know why?  He was never married.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Cardozo was never married?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Never married.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Never married?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4019.0,4034.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  I’ll tell you another interesting thing.  That he, he was a trustee in the congregation, 19th Street Synagogue.  Trustee.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, he was.  And the story goes, it is known — this is from history books — that they were talking about the new synagogue, which — this one.  And they, some people wanted a Reform.  It’s just the time, people wanted Reform, they wanted men and women sitting together, et cetera.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4034.0,4061.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, and then, he was not an Orthodox man.  He was Conservative, in the good sense of the word.  He was, he, he was traditional.  So, he got up and he scolded the other people.  He said, “What do you want to do?  You want to change?”  And, “Because we have such a wonderful tradition.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4061.0,4080.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And while he spoke, there was a big lightning.  There was a thunderstorm going on.  He said, “Even the elements are on my side.”  That was the story of Cardozo.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You talk about change.  There’s a great deal of conservatism in this congregation.  I mean, in terms of even melodies.  Even the music.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4080.0,4102.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Oh, yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What if somebody, what if a cantor today wanted to introduce a new…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …a different Hashkiveinu?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  That is not allowed.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It can’t be done.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No, that’s the whole thing.  No, they are very strict.  Still strict with it.  They are very strict with it.  Otherwise, the Ashkenazim, they know every new hazzan would sing a new composition.  No, they are very strict with it, you see.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4102.0,4122.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  It’s an official rule?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  An official rule.  I’ll tell you what we did.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  How did you get Rossi in?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Well, I’ll tell you.  Because he was, he was introduced, or rather, he was welcomed, because he was a — his music sounds Sephardic enough.  Yeah, but it was after a long struggle.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4122.0,4145.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He’s, Rossi is only with us maybe 20, 20 years, you see.  Not longer than that. No, but they are very careful, because they know, once you open the gates, there is no end to it, you see. And what we do have, for example, we do have a few melodies which are only 150 years old, but they were composed by a Sephardic hazzan, DeSola, in London.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4145.0,4168.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And one of these melodies you know, probably, very well.  And because they sing it in Israel, too.  It is, it’s as follows.  (Sings an adon olam)  Because he composed in the, in the, shall I say, in the atmosphere of Sephardic music.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, it sounds like a traditional melody.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  Like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4168.0,4198.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  For that matter, maybe it is.  Who knows?  I know it has his name on it.  But the thing is, that’s the official adon olam, as it were, quote-unquote, official, in London, of the Ashkenazi synagogues.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4198.0,4211.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Every Orthodox synagogue in the United Synagogue.  In the United Synagogue of the British Empire in Great Britain.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah.  By the way, it’s very interesting that you bring up the London synagogue.  Because they have a few melodies which they took from another congregation in London.  And it’s not theirs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4211.0,4226.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"For example, the Mizmor L’Todah — (sings).","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4226.0,4239.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/208","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it sounds as if it is a Sephardic melody.  It isn’t.  Because when you take the (INAUDIBLE) books, they have the music in the back, and it says that it is from Temple So-and-So.  It is not a Sephardic melody.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4239.0,4251.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/209","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  But their adon olam, of deSola, is that used here?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But not every Shabbat?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No, not every Shabbat.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You alternate.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Well, we change off.  We have a number of, we have melodies — (sings another adon olam) — which I had never heard before in Holland.  I don’t know where it came from.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What about the deSola one?  Did you know that in Holland?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  In Holland, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  For some reason, that became the…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4251.0,4276.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/210","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah.  And I’ll tell you another thing, for example, the choir has been introducing, with the blessings of the trustees, another melody which we never had before, that is, again (sings).  Now, we used, we never used to have that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4276.0,4303.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/211","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Well, I know where that — I mean, that’s an Israeli…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah, Israeli.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …a Moroccan.  It sounds similar to those Moroccan recordings.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  A general Mediterranean — yeah, it’s a big, Moroccan festival, where I can just hear it now.  It’s a brown record.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, and Yoram Gaon already has a record out.  It says traditional melodies, but also Ashkenazic melodies, in it, you know.  There’s, this it is not exactly a borderline.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4303.0,4329.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/212","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  But if you want, for example, weddings in this synagogue.  They have to follow a set pattern.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  When I used to come here, they used to sing for the bride to come in this (Sings).  But they don’t do that anymore.  No, they sing the traditional, we have a traditional barukh habba.  (Sings)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4329.0,4363.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/213","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  That’s from Bendigamos.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Pretty much the Bendigamos song.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Bendigamos, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And there, again, if someone has a wedding in this synagogue, they don’t have a choice of music to use?  They can’t bring in…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, no, they can ask for it, yeah.  They can ask for it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4363.0,4378.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/214","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  No, but I mean, they have to do what’s part of the Sephardic tradition?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, no, no, yeah.  They cannot.  Yeah.  They can only ask for the traditional melodies which we usually sing.  But they can ask for a selection. By the way, when, at the end of the wedding, they sing a Hallelujah, which is also from London.  And that London had taken from other synagogue.  Maybe you know the melody.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4378.0,4396.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/215","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"(Sings it)  It’s not a Sephardic melody.  But they have taken, you can see (inaudible), that’s the prayer book from another synagogue.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It has a certain Sephardic flavor to it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4396.0,4416.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/216","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah, there’s flavor enough.  Yeah, you are right. Yeah, I like it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That’s, that’s traditional after a Sephardi wedding?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  Well, that is the test.  You are right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I’m looking at some photographs here. This is, this looks like you…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  This is probably…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …on the right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4416.0,4432.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/217","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  …my, the naming of my daughter.  One of my two daughters.  And on the picture you see Dr. Pool, you see that Rabbi David Cardozo, who used to be a rabbi here before I came, and a relative, and myself, my wife and the baby.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4432.0,4449.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/218","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: Here, of course, is a picture of a wedding.  Do we have any idea, approximately, how, in this congregation, approximately how long ago?  Just so we have a time frame for it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  I really don’t know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Because you cannot tell.  One thing I think you will have to agree, that, in many cases, from a photograph, you can guess the rough age of the, a date, based upon the dress.  But you can’t do that here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4449.0,4470.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/219","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  No, you cannot do it here.  I really don’t know, because our friend has been taking pictures out of the album, and I don’t know exactly where it was.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You can’t tell…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  Anyway, it shows our — the beauty of our synagogue.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  People still dress — am I correct here?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  With high hat, et cetera.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  They still dress for the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Oh, yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …with the proper top hat and…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4470.0,4493.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/220","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Well, yeah.  But if you are called up on Shabbat, you cannot come up in a kippah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Of course.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  If you don’t bring a hat, we have a number of hats available.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4493.0,4500.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/221","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Yes.  Well, I mean, it used to be, you couldn’t sit in the first three rows.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No, that’s right.  But those things have changed.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That’s changed?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  We are a little more lenient, nowadays.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So you mean, if I come without a hat, and just a put a kippah, I could sit in the third row?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  They won’t throw you out.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  They wouldn’t make me go to the fifth row?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4500.0,4518.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/222","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  No.  No, not unless the shamash is in a bad mood.  That is a different story.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And what about a straw hat in the summertime?  Can you…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Perfectly all right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Because wasn’t there an incident…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, no, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Do you know what I’m talking about?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, I know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  How long ago…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No.  That used be, years ago, but…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4518.0,4535.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/223","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Even if it was July, a man could not wear a straw hat.  It had to be a, for an aliyah.  When was this…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No, no, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I’m talking about…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Not anymore.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …a hundred years ago.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No.  You are behind the times a little bit, if you don’t mind me saying so.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And this?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4535.0,4551.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/224","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  No.  That happens to be me on my day of my wedding, with my beautiful wife.  Yeah, I used to be a little younger.  And that was taken — as a matter of fact, that was taken here, in the next room, Elias social room.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4551.0,4568.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/225","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Now you — here, this picture here, for example.  Any way to judge — oh, this gives a date.  This is 1952.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, it could have been.  Oh yeah, it says here on the back.  Now I can see a little better. That was, that was my wedding, with my wife.  It was March 11th, 1952.  Here, it says here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4568.0,4589.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/226","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Yeah.  I see that it’s ’52, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  And so, that other picture might have been also my wedding.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And who is the man on your right?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  The old one?  You know him very well.  The man on the left? Begin.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4589.0,4611.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/227","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  That’s here in this synagogue.  Taken here, in 1971.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, taken here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, you also have been affiliated with, and you had mentioned this just briefly, with Yeshiva University.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  With the school there.  What have you taught there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4611.0,4628.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/228","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Reading of parasha.  General things that a hazzan should know.  For example, which parasha is read on which, which date, et cetera, et cetera.  And Haftorah.  And also, parts of the service. And by the way, and Ira Rohde came for a little while.  And Rabbi Angel was my student, at one time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4628.0,4647.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/229","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Rabbi Angel, yes, yes.  So you had, in other words, a kind of crossover here.  I mean, technically, this synagogue is, would you say it’s an Orthodox synagogue?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, it’s an Orthodox synagogue.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And yet…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4647.0,4657.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/230","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Even though we are not Hasidic.  In other words, we are not asking questions, how you get here, and what you do at your home.  But the people like our service, and that is what counts.  And they come to our meetings.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, all Sephardi synagogues would have to be considered Orthodox, wouldn’t you say?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, I don’t know of any synagogues…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, no, there are synagogues, for example, in Woodmere…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Is that Orthodox?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4657.0,4679.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/231","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  …in Woodmere, Rabbi Marans.  There are a few, there are a few cases that men and women sit together.  See, a thing like that. And also, he introduces something, when they give out functions, mitzvot for the Torah or something.  He would say them in English.  We don’t use any English in our service.  Not at all, except…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4679.0,4700.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/232","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  The prayer for the government.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  …the prayer for the government.  And the sermon.  But we don’t call up people and say, “Mr. So-and-so, come forward.”  We keep strictly to Hebrew.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But that’s a Sephardi tradition.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  Yeah, I know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But I mean, the congregation is Orthodox, in the sense that…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  By the way, we use, nowadays, a Shabbat microphone.  Which has been approved by some organization in Israel.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4700.0,4724.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/233","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  I heard that is something, there’s some reason why that microphone is okay, and other ones aren’t.  I know about that.  I don’t know why.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Right, yeah.  I mean, we used to have a real microphone, in the time of Dr. Pool and Gerstein was there.  When Rabbi Angel came, he didn’t want to use the microphone. But that new thing, which, I don’t if it works, I don’t know, it has been approved by…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4724.0,4746.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/234","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  There’s some technical reason, I know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But, on the other hand, this congregation has a long-standing affiliation with the Jewish Theological Seminary.  ‘Cause, as a matter of fact…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4746.0,4759.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/235","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  …the very first class of the Jewish, of the rabbinical school…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, Unterberg, there’s Unterberg auditorium…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s held here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  And Hendricks, and so forth.   They are very close to the Seminary. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So, and yet, that’s a Conservative movement.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4759.0,4769.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/236","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah.  Yeah, yeah.  Yeah, and of course, I don’t know how Conservative they were.  And they were interested.  Don’t forget, also, the Seminary started out, one of the founders of the Seminary…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  Was Rabbi Mendes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Mendes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4769.0,4785.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/237","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah.  Because at that time, the Seminary was Orthodox.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, it wasn’t, it wasn’t the Conservative movement, that’s right.  It was a seminary.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, it was a seminary, it was a seminary.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The Seminary was a seminary.  It had yet to — it was a question of modernity, and all that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  And they picked Dr. Gerstein because they knew what, who was what, and they knew how he was doing well, and they followed his career.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4785.0,4807.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/238","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Now, tell me about some of the things that you’ve produced.  Well, this little booklet here, which I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, which is already old.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s old, but it still has, I remember this booklet.  I don’t know what happened to my copy, but this one is made out to your relatives.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Okay, you can have it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Thank you.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  You can have it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:    Thank you.  If you’ll inscribe it for me.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Huh?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  If you’ll inscribe, the inscription.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But you also did some…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …much more recent things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4807.0,4829.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/239","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  …wrote two books.  One book is, is, is, has in it a number of z’mirot.  No hazzanut — there’s not, no, we don’t read from that book.  You cannot learn how to read the Shacharit, and so on and so forth.  But a number of a z’mirot.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4829.0,4846.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/240","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Now, when you say z’mirot, you mean something a little different than…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, I know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …than Ashkenazi.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, z’mirot…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So let’s make we sure we understand.  I know what you mean.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  I think of z’mirot now, what you call zemiros.  That you sing at the table, you see.  Now, z’mirot is also at the front, the p’sukei d’zimra on Shabbat morning.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You used the term, I mean, Ashkenazim used the term z’mirot, strictly, really, it only has to do with the Shabbat table.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4846.0,4869.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/241","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah, the table.  Yeah, that.  Yeah, I know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But it’s used as…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, I know.  I’ll tell you, I meant…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  p’sukei d’zimra, or…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, I meant table service.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But you mean the table service.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4869.0,4874.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/242","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah.  Because zemirat on Shabbat morning go with a certain singsong, and repeated all the time, you see.  And then, it’s done by a layman in the beginning of the service.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNo, I have a number of z’mirot, and also, blessings for the wedding, blessings for the hanukkiah, and a number of these.  And it was properly of a number of melodies with translation, transliteration and explanation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4874.0,4903.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/243","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And this book is published by Tara Publications.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Tara Publications, yeah.  And it comes with two tapes.  And of late, the two tapes have been made into one CD.  Which is also for sale. Then, a second book, I put in a number of things I couldn’t get in the first book, because they are special.  The ta’amim, the music signs for parasha and Haftorah, and so forth, and the, and the blessings before and after Haftorah, et cetera.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4903.0,4932.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/244","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then I wrote about nine kinot, durges, special melodies for the Tisha B’Av.  And that was interesting.  You find in there that, I mean, Ma Nishtanah melody I referred to you.  But you find, also, from the, during the day, the melodies, which, some of them were never annotated.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4932.0,4956.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/245","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Of course, you don’t find them in regular music books.  With transliteration, et cetera, and the story, which is worthwhile having. And so, and that book comes with one tape.  So everything in both books is not only printed, but also sung.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4956.0,4975.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/246","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the first one, the first book, the tapes, the first book, and it’s also with music accompaniment.  And the rest I do.  And in the second book, I do the singing alone.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4975.0,4985.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/247","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  You made some recordings a long time ago.  Long before that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  There is one from, it must have been the 1950s.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Maybe.  Oh, yeah.  With the synagogue.  Yeah, I know.  Dr. Gerstein and I sang it, with the choir.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  There are two, actually.  There’s one…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s Shabbes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Shabbat and Ma’ariv.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  They’re still for sale.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  They’re still available?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Unfortunately, our congregation is not in the business of making money, evidently.  Because they have beautiful recordings.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=4985.0,5015.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/248","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And that’s with the choir and the, it’s a service.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah.  It used to be on records; now it is tapes.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And it has narration in between, though.  It has…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …Dr. Gerstein explaining these prayers.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Dr. Gerstein sang the, yeah, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5015.0,5024.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/249","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And, for example, on the Shabbat morning, in this tradition here, typically, you would sing, where would you begin?  P’sukei d’zimra?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  You mean after z’mirot?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, you wouldn’t do the z’mirot.  You wouldn’t do…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No. A layman. I would sing…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  A layman does it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  …start on Nishmat.  Or the choir would start Nishmat.  But I would still be standing there, though.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5024.0,5046.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/250","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Okay.  And then you would take, you would go through Shacharit?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And you do, of course, the, the Torah service.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  Wait a moment.  I will be finished at the end of Shacharit.  After an Amidah, after the Kaddish Titkabal, I’d be finished.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5046.0,5061.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/251","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then, somebody else takes over — usually the rabbi, so, in this case, nowadays, Rabbi Angel.  And he would read the prayer for the government and the prayer for the congregation and the prayer for Israel.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5061.0,5074.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/252","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then, somebody else, one of the other people, comes up, and starts, and bows to the parnas, who comes up, and he gives out the various functions — who opens the Ark, who carries the Sefer, et cetera.  And then, they go to the hechal, and in a ceremonious way, they take out the Sefer, and you get the procession.  And then, usually, the person who gave out the mitzvot is doing the reading of the Torah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5074.0,5100.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/253","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then, after the reading of the Torah comes a layman who says the Haftorah, and then is taken over for Ashrei by one of us, because we have to, we divide the job.  And then, after that, the rabbi gives a sermon from the pulpit, in front of the Ark.  And then, after it, follows the Musaf.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5100.0,5124.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/254","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And who, typically, in the most typical case, who would sing Musaf?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No.  And that is, we change off.  In other words, it could be that somebody who reads Shacharit also reads the Musaf.  It could be that somebody who reads the — in other words, the one who reads the Musaf is usually not the one who gives the sermon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5124.0,5146.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/255","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, it is usually Shacharit, and then another person is Torah, and then — you need at least two or three people.  So, as you change off. Now, in the summer, for example, I’ve been retired now for a number of years.  But for this summer, they asked me again, for the whole summer, to do service, so that one of the others can be on vacation.  So then, we, then we divide the mitzvot.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5146.0,5170.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/256","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  When you say that, because, I mean, I can remember Rabbi Gerstein reading Musaf.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  Yeah.  And I’ll tell you, when we read Musaf…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Even when you were here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, and I’ll tell you…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  When you did Shacharit…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5170.0,5180.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/257","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah.  Okay.  Now, in other words, then, I don’t know, was it Gerstein or me alone?  You see.  Yeah, I don’t know.  Because it could be that I did the Shacharit…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  You would have done the Shacharit.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  The Shacharit, and then, he could have read the Torah.  Or maybe I read the Torah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eYou see, usually, the one that does Shacharit is not doing the Torah.  So that we have a little staggering.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5180.0,5205.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/258","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Would you say that the Musaf is less elaborate…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …than Shacharit?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  First, it’s shorter.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, you know, in the contemporary Ashkenazi synagogue in America…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5205.0,5220.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/259","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …in America…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  The Musaf is best.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The Musaf is the main thing.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, I know.  Yeah, I know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But that’s not so here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No.  Not really, unfortunately. I tell you an experience of Musaf.  Years ago, when I did service in the summer, and I was alone, and we had the services downstairs in the auditorium, then I thought I would sing a keter, keter yitanu lecha, which we have, in a melody which was from Holland.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5220.0,5247.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/260","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it is a nice melody, but it doesn’t sound Sephardic.  (Sings it)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5247.0,5263.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/261","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that Captain Phillips — I mentioned that old man, was there.  He came to me after, he said, “What did you sing?  Where do we have that from?” I said, “From Holland.” He said, “Cut it out.” I never sang it again.  If you like the idea, that we are very strict.  He was accustomed — because the melody keter we sing is so simple.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5263.0,5284.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/262","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"(Sings)  Very simple.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5284.0,5308.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/263","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Now, kol nidre is completely different. Isn’t it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: And it doesn’t have the importance.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO: That’s right. No, yeah it has the importance. But, of course we sang in the kol nidre—some say that they won’t ask forgiveness for next year. Now we only say from she’avar. Our, it’s really simple, you know how it goes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5308.0,5328.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/264","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"(Sings)  And a little further.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5328.0,5346.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/265","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"(Sings)  And so on and so forth.  Yeah.  By the way, Gerstein did that very well.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  That is, and it’s very difficult.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5346.0,5366.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/266","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And are they still, on Kol Nidre night, all the, the elders of the synagogue who hold the Sefer Torah…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah.  We bring out eighteen Sefer Torah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And how are they dressed?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Uh?  Oh, yeah.  It’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Tails.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5366.0,5380.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/267","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  All formal — tails and everything.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  White tie and tails.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Oh yeah, the white tie, yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So that you still have?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  That still goes on.  Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I knew somebody whose lifelong ambition was to become a member, just for that reason.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5380.0,5393.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/268","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Who was that?  Really?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Somebody who wanted to become a member of this synagogue all his childhood because, just for that reason.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So someday, he could…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5393.0,5400.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/269","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Maybe I know the somebody.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You do. I’ll tell you later.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, good.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But the, in any case, back to recordings.  Now, there were some other, there was an older recording that you made.  Some melodies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5400.0,5413.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/270","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah, possible.  I made a number of recordings for Jacob Mikhael, who died a number of years ago, for the Hebrew University.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Okay.  This is what I’m…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  And they are in the collection there.  And by the way, our friend Edwin, Edwin knows where to find it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He knows?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, he knows.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5413.0,5430.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/271","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And those are, those are melodies that are different from this book, or the same type of…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No, they are, melodies, some melodies which are not in this book.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  Yeah.  No, there are a number of melodies…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Because Michaels’ collection is supposedly in Israel now.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Who?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The — Jacob Michaels.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Who we were talking about.  The Michaels collection.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, it’s all in Israel.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, so Edwin would know where to find that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Edwin knows how to find it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What, are they are on tape or on disc?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Discs, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5430.0,5455.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/272","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: And what about anything to do with the seminary program?  There were some recordings made of Pesach melodies and things like that, through the Jewish Theological Seminary, or through the Women’s League or the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  I know, I know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …Eternal Light program.  Were you ever involved with The Eternal Light?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The television program?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  No.  Never.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5455.0,5473.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/273","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Now, I have to, I just want to clarify one thing.  I mean, we, I know that your, your training as a hazzan, your education as a hazzan, came, as all hazzanim acquired it, from your father, from your grandfather, from…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, right.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …from your synagogue.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  And from, and from the synagogue.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And from the choir.  From the choir in…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.  From the choir or from the synagogue.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But what about any other musical education?  Did you have any other musical education, aside from…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5473.0,5494.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/274","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  No.  Not really. And I’ll tell you, I, musically, I play the piano.  So, in other words, I, my interest in music goes more than to hazzanut.  To other things, too — I’m not an expert on it, but I enjoy it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5494.0,5507.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/275","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And also, I got part of my experience by traveling.  Because we were in London, in Paris, in Belgium.  I mean, but it’s not important.  But in Israel, for example, I have been doing, going extensively to a number of synagogues — Italian synagogues, and so forth.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5507.0,5531.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/276","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I know, I could almost pinpoint that melody — and in Suriname, of course, I was there.  So I could compare, I could tell you how they sing in Suriname a certain melody. For example, we have a melody which is very well known in Sephardic congregations, but not Ashkenazim at all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5531.0,5546.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/277","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That is the beginning of the Neilah.  And it’s a very beautiful melody.  (Sings)  Beautiful melody.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNow, they sing it slightly different in London.  Slightly different in Holland.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5546.0,5571.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/278","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  But this is strictly, well, they’re all Sephardic, because I don’t…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …we do that in Ashkenazi…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, I know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  You don’t have the poem, even.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, we don’t have the poem.  Silverman put it in there?  Nobody does it, but it’s not traditionally part of the…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5571.0,5580.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/279","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Yeah, I’ll tell you.  I was told that one year, they sang it…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, that’s right.  I think…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  …in, in Kehillat Jeshurun.  I was told.  I was never — and I was told something else, too.  That in 88th Street, where Rabbi Matalon…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5580.0,5596.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/280","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  …is, that he sings a number of melodies he must have taken from my book.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, but they do all kinds of things there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, I know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Anything can…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  I know.  I know this…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  We don’t want to start talking about what they do there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  But I think what is interesting.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, yeah, but they, but that’s another story.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, I know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5596.0,5610.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/281","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  But for example — (sings).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, same melody.  (Sings).  Yeah, it’s the same melody.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  All right.  Now, what is it?  (Sings)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, same thing, there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But that’s a different melody.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, different, different melody.  But yeah, I know. You are right, they are different.  But for example, in Holland, they sing — (sings).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, that’s a very different…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  (Sings)  The rhythm’s different.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So which one do they use here?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5610.0,5640.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/282","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  Huh?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Here?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Here.  The first one I sang.  It is in my book.  (Sings)  But if you ever want the melody, you can ask Hyman.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5640.0,5659.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/283","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Yeah.  And so, anyway, and I see you play piano.  I mean, that’s just something else.  I mean, that’s something…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, yeah.  No, I know.  But in other words, what I hear I can also play on the piano. We have some beautiful — you mentioned Kramer before.  Who was, used to be choirmaster.  He wrote beautiful, a number of compositions for the service.  For non-essential parts.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5659.0,5682.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/284","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"For example, the, the Shuva, when the Sefer is brought back, or the, the unyucho yomar.  He wrote very nice, one melody is — (sings).","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5682.0,5702.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/285","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I don’t want to sing that whole thing.  But he had a real feel for the Sephardic music.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, but, did, that’s his own melody?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So traditionally, in this congregation, and in most Sephardic congregations, if they didn’t allow new melodies…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …did they allow, they, they didn’t mind, for Uvyucho Yomar?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  They didn’t mind.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Why?  Because it’s not part of the Kevah, or because…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5702.0,5723.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/286","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"CARDOZO:  It is not that.  Yeah.  But there is a book out, I think Kramer edited it, with all the Friday night melodies for various — (INAUDIBLE) melody, and also, for Yigdal — for the whole Friday night — for Shabbat and holidays.  And he edited that.  And there’s nothing that — the congregation may have some copies, or you may have it in your library, and so forth.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5723.0,5746.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/287","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But all the interesting melodies which the choir sings on Friday night.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  From this synagogue…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Yeah, from here.  This synagogue.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  From this congregation.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  But that example I gave you, it’s interesting, how melodies stay alive for many years now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5746.0,5760.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/288","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"(Sings)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eWe are always repetitive in all our melodies.  That’s why, in our, in the recordings, and also in my book, I haven’t always sang a whole adon olam, where we repeat the melody all the time.  I don’t believe in it, I feel it gets boring.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5760.0,5785.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/289","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: I think—is there anything that you would like to…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO: No, I would like to say that I enjoyed it. I liked to talk about it. I enjoyed the interview and all the company here.  They did not, they did behave very well.  They did not make any noise.  So, and the noise I made, was, you make noise. But I hope that the people will maybe remember something of it.  And I do my best.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5785.0,5813.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969/transcript/48856/annotation/290","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  We’ll make sure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCARDOZO:  Thank you very much.\n\nTRANSCRIPTION END","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40304/file/111969#t=5813.0,5824.128"}]}]}]}