{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/jh3cz32s10/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Drattell, Deborah"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Preferred Citation"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eDrattell, Deborah. 1999. Interview by Neil Levin. Milken Archive Oral History Project. 23 February.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Milken Family Foundation"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e© Milken Family Foundation. Unauthorized use is prohibited. For inquiries, please contact info@milkenarchive.org.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Levin, Neil W. (Interviewer)","Drattell, Deborah (Composer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1999-02-23"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["New York, NY (Place of Recording)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (Primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eOral history with composer Deborah Drattell. She briefly covers her musical background, growing up as a violinist and then studying with numerous well-known composers while getting her doctorate at the University of Chicago. Following this she discusses some of her Jewish musical works, specifically her opera \u003cem\u003eLilith\u003c/em\u003e (2001), explaining its genesis and how she chose the text. The interview ends with her talking discussing a lack of interest in writing Jewish liturgical music, and other ongoing projects.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["Beta SP"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Oral Histories (genre/form)","Jews — Music (Topical Term)","Drattell, Deborah (Person or Corporate Body)","Shapey, Ralph, 1921-2002 (Person or Corporate Body)","Perlman, Itzhak, 1945- (Person or Corporate Body)","Wasserstein, Wendy (Person or Corporate Body)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Keyword"]},"value":{"en":["Brooklyn College, Denver—Colorado, Erica Jong (b. 1942), feminism, gender, Hebrew, Itzhak Perlman (b. 1945), Jacob Druckman (1928-1996), Jephthah’s Daughter (symphonic), Lilith, liturgical music, opera, pedagogy, Ralph Shapey (1921-2002), Robert Beaser (b. 1954), Robert Starer (1924-2001), Temple Emanu-El—New York, Terrence McNally (1938-2020), The Lost Lover, University of Chicago, Vienna—Austria, Wendy Wasserstein (1950-2006), violin"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eOral history with composer Deborah Drattell. She briefly covers her musical background, growing up as a violinist and then studying with numerous well-known composers while getting her doctorate at the University of Chicago. Following this she discusses some of her Jewish musical works, specifically her opera \u003cem\u003eLilith\u003c/em\u003e (2001), explaining its genesis and how she chose the text. The interview ends with her talking discussing a lack of interest in writing Jewish liturgical music, and other ongoing projects.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u0026copy; Milken Family Foundation. Unauthorized use is prohibited. For inquiries, please contact info@milkenarchive.org.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/111/965/small/Drattell.jpg?1621342615","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - B12034_MA_OH_Deborah_Drattell_Master_2017_Logo.mp4"]},"duration":1609.984,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/111/965/small/Drattell.jpg?1621342615","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-milken.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/111/965/original/B12034_MA_OH_Deborah_Drattell_Master_2017_Logo.mp4?1619776411","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":1609.984,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["DRATTELL [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Let’s talk a little bit about, well, just for the record, a few things I already know.  But I mean, your, your musical history, in terms of who you worked with, and so forth.  I mean, you, I know you worked with, at the University of Chicago.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=17.0,33.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  Right.  Exactly.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And that’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Well, I was a, that’s where I got my Ph.D.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  From the illustrious…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\tDRATTELL:  Ralph Shapey.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Tell us about Shapey.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL: Ralph, let’s put it this way — he was extremely unusual.  But he was a very good teacher.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But you, but you survived it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=33.0,50.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  You mean he survived me.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, I mean, very few people — when I came to see him in 1972, he said, “You,” you know, if I should decide to work with him, he said, “you may like me or you may hate my guts.  But you’ll never forget me!”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=50.0,79.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  Well, the thing is, I think I was the first person to get a Ph.D. in probably seven years from that institution when I did.  Not very many people actually graduate.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That’s what I mean.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Yeah.  I did.  Yeah, I graduated.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And before that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tDRATTELL:  I was a violinist.  And I started out as a violinist, and I went to Brooklyn College to study with Yitzhak Perlman.  And I studied violin, and that’s what I was originally going to be.  Is a violinist.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So your, your undergraduate work isn’t as a composer?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=79.0,99.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  Well, I changed.  In the middle of being a violinist, I changed.  And I stayed a violinist, but I got my degree, actually, in composition.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  From Brooklyn.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  From Brooklyn College.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Who was teaching composition there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=99.0,109.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  I studied first with Robert Starr.  And then, I studied most of the time with Jacob Druckman, who was there before he went to Yale.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Both of whom have pieces, of course, in this…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  So, there you go.  There’s the lineage, then.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …in this project.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  And then, Ralph Shapey.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And, as a matter of fact, Starr, we may be doing something, recording it in Vienna, which is his birthplace.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=109.0,131.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  His — exactly.  So he, he was my first teacher, really.  My first.  I didn’t, I didn’t study with him for very long.  Maybe six months.  And then, I studied with Jacob for about two-and-a-half years.  And then I took a break.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: How did Shapey’s approach, compositionally, affect you in your work, and your direction?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=131.0,159.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDRATTELL:\u003c/strong\u003e I think my music sounds extremely different from his.  I, I don’t write in the same style that he does.  But, in a way, it’s, the way that he thinks of music and puts it together, is a very concrete way of teaching how to write music.  And so, it’s really extremely useful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=159.0,175.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think, as a student, one tends to maybe imitate the style of teachers more.  But I found it very useful.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tI, he’s, his music was very contrapuntal.  And someone was saying today, at New York City Opera, how, looking through opera scores, how few opera scores are, use counterpoint, nowadays.  And that’s something I always use, and, and he’s very, very skillful at, at teaching that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, that’s, I think, if I’m not mistaken, I think he himself says he, at one point, said, quote, He says, “Well, I’m a contrapuntalist.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Right.  And I think that’s a very, I think it’s a very good technique, and I learned that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=175.0,211.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But esthetically, our music is very different.  And I think that just is what happens, with time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, though, tech, well, for example, he has this, you know, the charts with the common tones.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Mmmm-mmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, is that something that you were exposed to?  I mean, do you use that technique?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  In a different way.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tDRATTELL:  You know.  I think that’s the interesting thing.  He does teach certain basic skills, and then you can disseminate it and use it in a different way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=211.0,242.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I used that be — what he’s doing is really, it’s the same thing as modulation.  It’s just in a way of not using, you know, a typical one-four-five-one progression.  But it’s, it, what he’s teaching is a very basic idea of, of, if you’re not going to have a common progression that the ear is used to hearing, you have to keep something, as you shift, that makes, that’s familiar to the ear.  So, I do that, but in a different way.  I use a different — he uses four tones, let’s say, or part of a 12-tone scale.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Your music isn’t serialized into…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=242.0,281.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  …tone rows, or…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Did he, did he emphasize that, as a learning technique, when you were a student with him?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  I don’t remember.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Did he bug you about…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=281.0,296.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  Why do you want to know so much about Ralph Shapey?  I’m just curious.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, I’m talking about the influence on your work.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Oh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, well, I mean, I mean, do you approach a piece — whether it’s Lilith, or whatever it is — I mean, totally freely?  Or do you have some, a structure in mind, from the point of view of pitch selection?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=296.0,319.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDRATTELL:\u003c/strong\u003e Every piece is different for me.  It depends.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eI mean, Lilith is a very specific piece, in terms of, it has to do with Jewish mysticism.  And one has to create a sound that — and it’s, you know, part ritual, it has in it, ritual music.  So, you have to create a sound of that world, you know, to create that atmosphere.  So, in order to do that, I use a lot of Middle Eastern modality, for that piece.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=319.0,347.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But in another piece, I — it just depends on the piece.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, let’s talk about Lilith.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Mmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Lilith — first of all, how did it come about?  I mean, did you — how did you — when I say how it came about, I mean internally.  I don’t mean in terms of a commission or not commission — that’s not what I mean.  How did you choose that subject and that text?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=347.0,365.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  Why, I was looking, when I was composer-in-residence with the Denver Symphony, I had to write a residency piece.  And there was a wonderful library in Denver called The Tattered, Tattered Book or Tattered Cover — I can’t remember the name of it — which was the first of its type.  It was before Barnes, the large Barnes \u0026 Nobles here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL: And I had this idea.  I went to the library and I just happened to look at a Kabala.  I thought it would be interesting.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Had you ever read any cabalistic work before?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=365.0,396.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  Not that much, really.  And I picked up this book by Gershom Sholem, which is…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The, the arch-authority…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Exactly.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …on Jewish mysticism.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tDRATTELL:  And I — the weird part about it is, I happened to open up the book, and there’s a very little written about Lilith, and there’s very little, even, written about Lilith in the Kabala.  And I opened up the book and it happened to be on this page about Lilith.  And I thought, that would be a fascinating idea for an orchestral piece.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=396.0,418.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And at the time, I hadn’t written operas, or probably even that much vocal music, but I always liked the idea of having a story to my music — sort of programmatic, like.  And so, it started with an orchestral piece.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=418.0,433.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, you were, the, the story of Lilith, would you say it attracted you primarily from a, from its mysticism, as opposed to the, the story itself or the characterizations of Lilith — the feminization, that sort of thing?  Or the, or the cabalistic representations?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=433.0,471.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDRATTELL:\u003c/strong\u003e I liked it because she was a she-demon.  And I thought it would be — it was provocative.  And I didn’t do it from a feminist point of view, although that became, afterwards, the natural association with it, which it wasn’t.  And then, I liked the sort of duality — the idea of Lilith as the she-demon and the succubae, and then Eve as the mother and nurturer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=471.0,497.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that’s how — one had to really create a story, because there isn’t very much about Lilith written.  So, one had to create a story. And I thought it would be interesting to have Adam die, and Eve mourning her husband at the grave, with this son and daughter, who became symbolic of all of the children.  And these little demons appear, which happens, you know, cabalistically.  They come to gain their birthright from their father.  And of course, there were millions of demon offspring of Lilith and Adam.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=497.0,533.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so, these little demons appear at the grave, and the son and daughter ask, you know, “What are these demons?”  And finally, Eve has to break down and realize that there was somebody else before she.  And it was Lilith.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=533.0,546.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e This, this first performance was this past summer?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=546.0,556.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  A concert version.  I’ve never…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  A concert version.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It hasn’t been staged yet.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But there was a concert version of the whole…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Whole opera this summer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The whole opera.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Two fabulous reviews.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Did you bring them?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Why?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Well, why?  What am I going to bring them for?  I’m going to read them to you, as I sit here in front of the video?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, no.  Well, no.  We do want them.  I’m sure you…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Oh.  I can supply them to you in multitudes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I’m sure.  Is there another performance in the works?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=556.0,586.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  There are performances in the works, yeah.  Staged performances.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Staged.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Yeah, hopefully.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And this is a full-length opera?  Two to three acts?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tDRATTELL:  A full-length opera on the short, on the short — no.  On the short side.  It’s two acts, but it’s done without intermission.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Without an interval.  And so it, but it’s evening.  In other words, it’s an evening?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  It’s an evening.  It’s a short evening.  A short…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So is Salome.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  …wham-packed evening.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  About an hour?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Over an hour, yeah.  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=586.0,612.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Now, we’re going to record a segment of that, I think, in three months?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Possibly.  No, we’re not going to do it.  There’s no time to record it in Seattle.  That was the decision that was made.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So what are we recording?  Oh, we’re recording…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=612.0,626.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  You’re recording The Lost, the Lost Lover.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, that, the Lost Lover in Seattle.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Hmmm-mmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So, we still have to find a time to, a place to record, then.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Lilith, right.  Yeah.  And if Lauren said she’d do Aeyshus Chail, while she’s there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  But that’s like a little…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That’s two minutes or three minutes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  …you know.  And then, at some point, Richard just said it was too much to fit in.  So you’re…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, that’s because they have to go to the small — how big is the orchestra?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=626.0,648.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  Chamber orchestra.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, then, it’s because she can’t come back.  I, I remember now.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  She’s doing a lot.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  And then the Esser excerpts, so I think it, you know, I don’t think they could fit in any more.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So we’ll do the The Lost Lover.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Which makes the most sense.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=648.0,660.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  Because Lilith, to even excerpt it, you really have to have the other, you have to have to have it at least up to Lilith’s appearance, appearance, and it does require a male chorus.  A small male chorus.  And the son and daughter.  Otherwise, there is, it just doesn’t…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=660.0,676.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  There’s nothing to really excerpt that makes sense.  \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Now, tell me — this new opera is set for when, did you say?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=676.0,685.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  It’s premiering this summer at Glimmer Glass.  It’s coming in November to City Opera, and then it’s going to be on Great Performances in the spring. Channel 13.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Uh-huh.  And how did you get to Tashlicht for a subject?  That’s great.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tDRATTELL:  Well, it’s three playwrights, three composers.  I’m writing one act with Wendy Wasserstein, and it has to be set in Central Park.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=685.0,704.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And when we originally talked about it, there was a choice between, she had the two ideas between a moon walk in Central Park, or the first time she saw Tashlicht with Temple Emmanuel beginning it, and all the congregants coming…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Temple Emmanuel?  Which Temple Emmanuel?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Here, in New York.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Tashlicht?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=704.0,723.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDRATTELL:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes.  And several other characters coming in.  And she was in Central Park when they had Tashlicht.  And she remembers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=723.0,733.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean, that’s so funny that…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=733.0,744.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDRATTELL:\u003c/strong\u003e It’s extremely — it’s a romantic comedy.  With lots of ritualistic, real — it’s the real thing.  I mean, you know, it has — we have a rabbi in it, it’s a whole uh Well, the two Jewish girls doing the opera.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=744.0,756.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The other one is Terrence McNally, and Robert Beaser is writing one.  And theirs is, you know, a homeless woman giving away her baby.  And then there’s Food — that’s called The Food for Love.  And then, there’s Strawberry Fields, which is Pete Gurney and Michael Torkey, an Alzheimer’s woman.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=756.0,772.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, we’ll be uplifting the evening with a little Tashlicht.  I told her the two Jewish girls from Brooklyn.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBut that’s our, that’s my next, my next Jewish opera.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, I, I suspect, from, well, it’s going to be a very different musical approach.  Am I right?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Oh, completely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  I mean, it’s a totally different…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Completely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …even just the setting you’re describing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=772.0,796.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  Well, it is.  It’s a romantic comedy.  Which is quite different from Lilith, which is the furthest thing from a romantic comedy.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=796.0,806.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  It’s also, I mean, the thing that’s great about writing music for Lilith, it’s so, you know, there’s so much of the music that’s sort of guttural and just really other-worldly.  I mean, how do you simulate, musically, anyway, this sort of giving birth to thousands of spawning, you know, demon children?  And you know, the, reaching the depths of hell, or something like that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Paderewski could have done it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=806.0,829.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  Yeah, exactly.  And this is more, you know, upbeat and snap your fingers, tap your foot.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Tell me about The Lost Lover.  How did that, what’s the genesis of, of that piece?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=829.0,845.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDRATTELL:\u003c/strong\u003e I always wanted to do something from Song of Songs.  And I came across a — I think my husband had bought me some of, translations from Biblical verses, or, and I, I saw this, called The Lost Lover, and I thought it would be just so beautiful to write a, just for a solo.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=845.0,867.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Actually, it’s for voice, but also, the, they’re, within the — and mostly, it’s string orchestra, even though it’s harp and percussion.  And I wanted to do it just strings.  And then there’s a solo violin, which is also like the woman’s voice.  That imitates it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And the text is all from Shir Hashirim?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, word for word?  It’s taken — it’s not a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  It’s taken exactly.  No, no, no.  Not at all.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  play on it.\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  It’s excerpted from…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Setting of excerpts of…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  …yeah, exactly.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And that is just, the whole thing is soprano?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=867.0,899.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  Soprano.  But she’s sort of singing the part, also, of, you know, what she said he said.  And then she sings it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSo, I, I didn’t want it as a duet.  I just wanted it just as the — as you can tell, I sort of lean towards female-type subjects, and tortured women.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What does that mean?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Lilith, Song of Songs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, I mean, what tortured women?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Anna Knatseva, Marina Tsvetaeava, you know.  All those appeals to me.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Where’s the tortured woman in Tashlicht?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=899.0,934.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDRATTELL:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, she’s the 40-year-old divorced woman who walks into the park with her mother and her — that’s why they go.  She’s about 40, and she comes with her mother and her mother says to her, “Look.  Give — you tried a shrink, you tried a facial.  Now, give your mother’s way a chance.”  You know, “We’re starting the New Year on the right foot.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=934.0,954.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And she turns around and she sees her ex-husband, Frank, there with their babysitter in the park, during Tashlicht.  And she just falls to pieces.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tBut then, of course, being that it’s a romantic comedy, he realizes what a fool he was in his mid-life crisis, and how he really missed her, and…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=954.0,971.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Actually, the, last week, there was a big scientific study with — I don’t know if it was here, but in the Herald Tribune, that there’s no, they determined there is no such thing as mid-life crisis.  Did you ever read that?  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  What is it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s made up.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eINTERVIEWER:  It’s actually made up.  Men are happiest…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Psychiatrists made it up, in order to have a patient.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eINTERVIEWER:  The thing is, men are actually happier between the ages of 40 and 60.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Sixty, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  They just become slightly psychotic.  That’s all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=971.0,995.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  As opposed to the women.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Women are perfect.  Yeah.  As you say, some men have it in different ways.  Some men has to do with their, discarding their wives, or they get a new car, or they change jobs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, but that’s what they showed.  That this was not, you know, it had been grossly exaggerated, anyway.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Well, maybe it is grossly exaggerated.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Mid-life crisis, I don’t know.  There is crisis from the, I don’t know — some people have crisis from the day one, anyway.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It isn’t mid-life — it’s just continuing on crisis.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=995.0,1021.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  But anyway, it doesn’t even have to — he just realizes what a fool he was.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Why would he want that nubile, 20-year-old, gorgeous babysitter, when he can have his…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He’s probably right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  …his fabulous wife back.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He’s probably right.  It gets boring.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1021.0,1031.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  Absolutely.  After he has done with her.  “Greta, I love you darling.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd he, you know, he had, he didn’t know he was Jewish, even.  He found himself, and he found religion.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Ah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1031.0,1046.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  Found his Jewishness, and goes back to his wife.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  As Temple Emmanuel did with Tashlicht.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1046.0,1051.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  Temple Emmanuel did it to him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That’s the funniest part.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  All the Chanel suits — but that’s what makes it funny.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, but that’s not in the opera.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  It’s — Temple Emmanuel is in my opera.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  By name?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  This is hysterical.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  It is.  You have to come, come see my opera.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Thirty-five years ago, if you had walked into Temple Emmanuel and said that you wanted to do something Tashlicht, first of all, somebody would have said, I don’t know where that street is…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  No, where is Tashlicht?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …I don’t know.  Why don’t you ask…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Exactly.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Number one.  Number two, if you told them, they would have thrown you out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1051.0,1074.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDRATTELL:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, the, the mother says, at one point — you know, the son, one of the boys who appears in the park is Wesley, Wesley Millstein.  And she goes, “What Jewish mother calls her son Wesley?”  You know, Wesley Mill — but it’s perfect.  ‘Cause that’s just where the next generation has gone.  You know, his last name is Millstein, and his first name Wesley.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1074.0,1092.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But he sees Melina Kondracke, from Astoria, Queens, and he goes crazy over her.  But she doesn’t want anything to do with him.  She has a boyfriend, and her father owns a Greek diner.  And he has a breakfast special.  And Wesley wants to know if it’s like Starbucks.  And he goes, “Don’t say that word to me.  It drives my dad to senility.  You know, he has a, makes the best breakfast special in town — two eggs, orange juice, toast, coffee, bialy, 25 cents extra.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The, the, this little miniature Eishes Chayil.  That’s solo voice, right?  There’s no accompaniment, as I recall.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Was that written for a particular occasion, or…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1092.0,1133.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDRATTELL:\u003c/strong\u003e I wrote that for — Lauren Flanagan wanted it.  She was doing a recital at the 92nd Street Y.  And one of the pieces she was doing had to do with, I think it was Madonna and Child.  I can’t, you know, she — Hindemith, Hindemith.  Can’t remember.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1133.0,1155.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And she had asked me, would I do a piece that would go with it?  So I thought it would be perfect.  Here, she was doing Madonna and Child.  To end with Eishes Chayil, which was the ultimate tribute, you know, to women of valor, to the Jewish women.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1155.0,1168.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And at first, I sort of did it tongue in cheek when I told her.  And then she said, “It sounds wonderful.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tAnd my husband and my children sing that to me every Shabbes.  And the melodies…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  They actually do it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Yes, they do it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But you don’t object to that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Why?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Why?  Because all the feminists object violently to Eishes Chayil— they want it removed from the text altogether.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1168.0,1189.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  I think it’s beautiful.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, so do I, but yeah.  In fact, yeah.  I used to go to somebody’s house once where it was all staged.  He, he, had three children and he would read it and, you know, when it would come to the, “Her children praise her,” and all three children would stand up on cue and say, “Praise you mother.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1189.0,1207.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  You know, the other thing is, I don’t — I’ll tell you the truth.  I don’t live my life by labels.  Whether it’s feminist or anti-feminist.  I do what I believe in, and I don’t care if it’s fashionable or not.  And I think Eishes Chayil’s beautiful.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s in English or Hebrew?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  No.  She sings it in Hebrew.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s in Hebrew.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1207.0,1229.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDRATTELL:\u003c/strong\u003e And the only thing was, we tried to create a melody which in, in such a, you know, for anybody who knows it.  I mean, you can just — it’s very hard to think of a different melody that goes with it.  But I wanted to try to do that.  And Lauren did a — I had to….","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1229.0,1245.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The funny story about this is we, I was actually pregnant with my fourth child when I wrote this for her.  And we actually timed the premiere of the piece, which was supposed to be before I gave birth.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1245.0,1255.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I fell on 72nd Street and Broadway a month before I was supposed to give birth, and I went into labor.  I fell going into the train station.  Typical New Yorkers — everybody did get up to help me, until they saw me stand up, and they saw this giant — you know, they saw me from the back, as I plopped down on the floor, and people came to help me.  And then I stood up, and they saw this stomach, and they went, “Whoa, whoa.  I don’t want anything to do with this,” you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1255.0,1278.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And being me, I got on the train and I went home.  And I ended up going into early labor.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tSo, she had her recital, and I had a caesarian, and she had her, her recital as I was drugged with morphine and everything.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1278.0,1291.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Really?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1291.0,1311.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  So, I’ve never heard her sing it live.  I’ve only heard the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, well, you’ll hear it…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  You see?  So, I’ve only heard the tape of that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You’ll hear her sing it, then…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\t\tDRATTELL:  And she wept when she told the audience that I wrote this for her.  “But she couldn’t be there, because,” I was, had gave birth a month early, and everything’s fine.  So, it was very…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You bring — I mean, you bring a lot of personal Judaic experience to, to those works — or maybe to everything, for that matter.  Have you ever written a synagogue service, or thought about it, or…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  No.  It doesn’t interest me.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Does — liturgical music interests you, though?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL: It doesn’t, the thought of doing that doesn’t interest me.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Why?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1311.0,1351.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  I like what it is.  I don’t have any, I can’t imagine any need to rewrite that.  At least for myself.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, I mean, an art, I mean a piece like a Bloch service, or a Milhaud service, or a Weisgall service.  You know, something that was a treating of the text in the way that Verdi treated the Requiem, and so forth.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  It doesn’t appeal to me.  Sorry.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, it’s something, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1351.0,1376.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  I’m, I’m interested in the more obscure things to — it just doesn’t, it just doesn’t interest me.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What’s your next work?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1376.0,1387.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  I’m writing an opera on Nicholas and Alexandra.  I’m now going to go into the writing of Russian liturgical church music.  Gregorian chant.  That’s how I’m approaching it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, but that’s, that’s not Gregorian chant.  It’s, you know…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  I’m joking.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But anyway, I think we — yeah, I think we, we’ve covered the pieces that are….  There are no, those are the things that we’re looking at.  Is there anything that I don’t know about that I should, for, for this Archive?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1387.0,1425.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  Well, those are the ones that — I mean, I’ve written a huge piece for orchestra and chorus, Jephthah.  You know, I mean, I’ve written lots of Jewish music.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  I, I mean on Jewish subjects, or whatever.  You know, Jephthah’s Daughter.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But I mean the ones that…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  The ones that you’re doing — Eishes Chayil…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That’s really what I want.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Lilith and Lost Lover.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Yeah.  So we talked about each of them.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That represents you very well, doesn’t it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  I think so.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You think so?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1425.0,1444.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  Well, that’s what I was asking Richard, ‘cause I was just a little bit confused, you know, in terms of what I presented to you was really my most recent pieces that I thought were representative enough of my style, et cetera.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Is this the producer?  Go ahead.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  I think, I think I’ve covered what I want to.  If there’s something you’d like to…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1444.0,1469.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  The thing I find fascinating is just, there are so many composers.  I mean, it’s not really fashionable to write, you know, to be a visible composer and to be writing Jewish, on Jewish subjects and themes.  And I find it fascinating that there are so many composers that are doing that.  You know, well-known composers that are doing that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I should…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1469.0,1491.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  And I think that’s the great part about the Archives, is to — even for myself, I, I had no idea that there were so many composers writing…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, we, we knew that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  …on this subject matter, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1491.0,1502.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, I mean, for whatever — Erica Jong is not, you know, exactly the most fashionable.  But what she did say when I talked to her at some point about, I don’t know, writing a piece, she said, “You know, every other ethnicity it’s chic.  And everybody, you know, flocks to a new piece, whether it’s an Asian composer or a, you know, African-American composer or a Hispanic composer.  Whatever the other ethnicities are, it’s considered very chic.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1502.0,1528.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"“But writing a piece, a Jewish composer or a Jewish poet or a Jewish writer writing a work on a Jewish theme is considered dull and boring.  And certainly not exotic.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1528.0,1541.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think the only reason, for example, the subject of Lilith or, because they had much more turnout than they ever — they had to change the venue, because they expected to get no, they expected that nobody was going to show up to hear Lilith.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1541.0,1552.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think the only reason that Lilith is so appealing is because of the whole Lilith Festival and movement that’s made, and the sort of feminist story that goes along with it.  And also, because it is a mystical story.  And not necessarily that it’s a Jewish subject matter, you know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, I think you’re right.  I think, I may I go even further.  I mean, yeah.  You’re bound to, whether it’s the intent or not doesn’t matter.  The — Lilith is a code word, and it’s a, and plus the fact that the Jewish feminist magazine…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …was called Lilith.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1552.0,1584.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965/transcript/33486/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DRATTELL:  But the interesting thing, when I wrote this piece…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Whatever feminist means.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Right.  But when I wrote this piece, there was no…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  …there was no Lilith.  I’m not, there was no Lilith Fair.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Oh, you know, there was nothing of the sort.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  But, anyway…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  That’s just my last…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDRATTELL:  Ta-da.  Thank you.  And thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40300/file/111965#t=1584.0,1609.984"}]}]}]}