{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/jm23b5ww4v/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Tawil, David and Moe"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","metadata":[],"provider":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/110/732/small/David.and.Moe-Tawil.jpg?1618940664","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - X2502_Tawil_David_and_Moe.mp4"]},"duration":3066.368,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/110/732/small/David.and.Moe-Tawil.jpg?1618940664","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-milken.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/110/732/original/X2502_Tawil_David_and_Moe.mp4?1615883692","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":3066.368,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Edited Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kligman: David Tawil, please tell us about where you were born and tell us a little bit about your upbringing here in the community. You can start with what -- what year you were born and then tell us where you're -- \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  I was born in 1921 just one week prior to the opening of the synagogue on 67th Street.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman: In Bensonhurst?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  In Bensonhurst. And I was born here on 66th Street in Bensonhurst and I've spent all my life practically -- practically all my life here in Brooklyn.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=16.0,47.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kligman:  Here in Brooklyn?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  I grew up with the institution that they had, the Talmud Torah, until I was 15. And I was attracted to the awesome sessions they had at the synagogue during prayer time especially Saturday afternoons when the head cantor, Alavei Shalom, Moshe Ashkar, would gather 14, 16, 18 students -- or disciples -- have them sit on stage with him, and for about 40-45 minutes, render so many pizmonim that they were absolutely into- -- beautiful. Absolutely beautiful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=47.0,89.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kligman:  So, you did that with --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  -- Moshe Ashkar?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  No. I never had the- -- I never had the zehut to be with him. I wasn't old enough yet.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Uh-huh. Uh-huh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  No, I never did.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  I know that your -- your older brother, Naphtali, was- -- was one of the students of Ashkar.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=89.0,106.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVID TAWIL:\u003c/strong\u003e He was -- he was strictly d- -- his disciple. He was his- -- his main disciple, I would really say. But he had many other students, of course -- Moshe Ashkar. All my other brothers, in one way or another, had something to do with the s- -- learning system that was going on at that time except that I- -- seems that as the youngest brother of six, I was just a little further away than the- -- than the learning sessions would allow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=106.0,133.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kligman:  Uh-huh. So, Naphtali was the oldest?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  No?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  I had an older brother, Ezra.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Ezra.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  He was the oldest. Naphtali was the second oldest brother.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Okay. And --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Also --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  -- and- -- and who's after that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  After that was Isaac.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Isaac. Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e David Tawil:  Yes. And then came Harry.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Harry.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  And my brother Moses, God bless him -- bless them all and me, too.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  And- -- and- -- and, so, you're the- -- you're the youngest.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  I'm the --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=133.0,154.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kligman:  The youngest.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  -- youngest of the six.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  And we have a sister -- God bless her, she's alive and well -- who's blind, by the way.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Uh-huh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  At a very young age, she became blind. But she was a- -- a remarkable young lady. At the age of 16, she was considered a phenomenal singer in eretz Yisrael\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Uh-huh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Phenomenal singer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Well, l- -- l- -- let's continue talking about your- -- your parents. Oh, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Oh; yes. You were speaking about my -- you were asking about my father. I'm sorry.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  What was your question?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  I think the question was, was your father also involved with --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=154.0,185.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"David Tawil:  My father was a --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  -- with you in prayers?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  -- cantor in his own right. He was a- -- a- -- a very scholarly person in all phases of Torah, etcetera, and so on. But he was a remarkable musician, too. He knew music beautifully.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman1:  When di- --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Very well.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e Seroussi:  When did they came?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Very extensively. They came here about 1913 from- -- from- -- it would have been from Eretz Yisrael already. It seems that my father and mo- -- my father met my mother in Eretz Yisrael and in 1913, they decided to make the move.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  When did your father leave Aleppo?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=185.0,228.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"David Tawil:  I really don't know. Honestly, I ca- -- I don't know because my first three brothers were born in Eretz Yisrael in Yerushalayim. And my sister, she was also born in Yerushalayim. And my brother, Moses, and my brother, Harry, were -- and myself, were born here in Brooklyn.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Oh, right here in Brooklyn?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Or New York.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  I don't say Brooklyn. New York.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Now, did your father exercise as a cantor or- --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Well, yes. He was a --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  -- he was a shaliach tzibur in many instances. He was -- had a beautiful voice. He loved to sing. He was a- -- a complete cantor, of course [indiscernible] --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=228.0,258.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Seroussi:  When- -- when you mean professional --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  -- what- -- what do you mean by that? I mean --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Professional meaning having a good knowledge of what it takes to produce a cantorial rendition in t'filla for the Ar- -- the Arab Jews.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  I understand.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Especially the Halebi. I say especially because there are many Arab Jews throughout Arab countries.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=258.0,285.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Seroussi:  Yeah. Of course.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Not all of them developed in their music as proficiently as they did in- -- in Aram Tsoba --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Did- -- did he play --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  -- which is a remarkable thing.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Yeah. Did he play an instrument? No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Didn't play the oud --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  -- or something?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  No. The oud he didn't play because he would find, probably, out of the many individuals that knew music, maybe one out of 20 played that --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Played instrument.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  -- instrument -- and- -- a- -- instrument -- oud. Period. That was the instrument.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Yeah. Oud.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Oud.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Yeah. Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  But, otherwise; no. They had no volition to --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Ashkar? He played the oud?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  -- to- -- to partake. No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  But he had a brother that was extremely famous who played a violin. Extremely famous.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=285.0,323.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Seroussi:  What was his name?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  I- -- I don't recall. I don't recall. My brother, Moses, would recall better than I because he'd be closer to him in age than I would be. I never met -- I never saw the fellow but I've heard of him that he was a remarkable violinist.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  In- -- in Syria?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  All over the world.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  All over the world?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  He went to Egypt. He came to the United States. He- -- he traveled all over the world.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=323.0,347.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Seroussi:  Hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  He was a -- my brother Moses will tell you about him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  That would be the same --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  If he could remember.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  -- family name? Ashkar?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Ask him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  It would be the same?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Ashkar; sure. Yes. Very famous family, the Ashkar family.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  They go back and trace themselves to 1550 to Moshe Ashkar in 1550 --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  -- who wrote the piskei halacha etcetera.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  That's the self -- same name that our hazzan was at the time, Moshe Ashkar.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  And there are many of them God bless them now.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Right. Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Grandchildren and great grandchildren and whatnot.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=347.0,370.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kligman:  So, your relationship to the Ash- -- Ashkar's is?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  No. No- -- no particular blood relationship.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  No- -- no- -- no blood relationship.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  No blood --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  -- relationship.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=370.0,384.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"David Tawil:  Just -- excuse me. Just as a point --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Please.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  -- of recall, his brother's name that was very famous -- and as a musician -- was Shahari Ashkar and he did not play the violin. He played the kanun.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  The kanun. Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  But it was something marvelous to listen to.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  And he was known throughout the world?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Worldwide.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Worldwide.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  I mean, especially in the Arab world.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=384.0,400.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Seroussi:  Yeah; of course.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  In the past, you've told me about Ashkar's teacher, Taboush. Could you talk a little bit about Taboush and what we know about him?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Well, that's so far back that I, myself, don't- -- don't know anything of him. But of his works -- the popularized version of how he came about to have so many melodies for his pizmonim. There were many little anecdotes about them. But he was a person that used the surrounding areas that afforded to give him popular music and he utilized them to use them for holy purposes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=400.0,442.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And he created a concept, of course, that it's certainly permissible to take devarshei chol and use it for devar kodesh. And from that point on, apparently, many, many other melodic inferences were extracted from the Arab world, even to the extent that many pieces from the Koran were used -- and we're not even aware of them at this stage anymore.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=442.0,470.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Seroussi:  They were used for what? For- -- for t'filla? Or -- \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  For liturgical purs- --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  For liturgical purposes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  -- purposes. No. At first, they were used for pizmonim.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  For pizmonim.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  From the pizmonim interestingly enough, they were then transmitted into the t'filla areas.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Mm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Of course, pizmon is extensive.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi :  Mm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Therefore, at the -- it could afford the variety of music that is presented in a melody or whatever rendition has been given. And the t'filla -- they extracted from the pizmonim, certain parts of it -- certain phrases of it, certain paragraphs of the music is how we say -- and adapted it to musical pieces that were set in the tefilot.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=470.0,504.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kligman:  Lastly, I just wanted to ask you if you could tell us about the capacity that you, sort of, serve in the community -- the things you do in the community. Both today and what you've done in the past. I mean, I can --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  All I can tell you is that in the past 40 years, I participate in establishing Congregation Beth Torah. That was 40 years ago. All along, I have been teaching there from whatever Hebrew subjects that were available and needed to the public. But many others were also involved in this p- -- in this kind of programming. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd I've been officially a cantor -- as an official cantor for the past 23 years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=504.0,545.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In the interim, I had pinched hit in many instances since we initiated the synagogue. At this point, I'm almost semi-retired but I still teach five times a week. I give shiur in the morning and I'm the official cantor of one of the minyanim on Saturday morning.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Do you teach also cantorial --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Mm --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  -- practices or no?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Do you have, like, disciples that you --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  No. I teach halakhah at this stage of the game.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=545.0,574.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Seroussi:  You teach --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  At this stage; yeah. I'm teaching halakhah . Cantorial -- it's not easy to teach cantorial music to- -- to people in general. It's truly not easy because the- -- the subject matter is quite intricate and it takes people that are interested. You have to realize, also, that I went through a phase where the popularity of Arab music diminished extremely and I'm talking from point of view that, for instance, in the 30s, in the community, Arabic music was extremely popular.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=574.0,604.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Everybody knew of who and what- -- and what came out new, and what's the latest record, and what's the latest melody, and what's the latest song, and who sang it, etcetera. After the '40s -- and really after 1945 into the '50s, much of this diminished. The bracha -- first of all, the community got much larger and the younger generations just were not keen on what their parents used to listen to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=604.0,630.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They would get that record and they would repeat it again, and again, and again, and say, oh, there go you know what I mean… to the point where even the Arabic language what they used to use in the 30s -- most of the younger generations did not use it at all nor did they understand it, nor did they speak it, etcetera. However, fascinatingly enough, in the past- -- in the past, I'd say 10 years -- 12 years, somehow or another there's a re- -- re- -- regeneration of interest in the Arabic music especially in its application to liturgical materials.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=630.0,668.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It could be possible because of the influx of Arab- -- well I don’t want to say -- but Jewish people from other Arab countries, having come into our community, in one way or another, perhaps, inspired the present generation to get so interested in the Arabic music again. Frankly speaking, I think now, today, there are more young people interested in the Arabic music from the point of you're using it in liturgy than ever before. It's a remarkable thing and it's a --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=668.0,702.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Seroussi:  Do you --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  -- it's a re- -- an amazing resurgence.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Do you see any influence from Israel in that sense?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Influence from whom?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  From Israel. That- -- that in Israel, also, the Arab music --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Not really. No; not really. I- -- I think the influence is not from -- directly from Israel. As a matter of fact, there's a bit of a clash between the cantorial institutions in Israel and the -- which I always say -- the traditional cantorial individuals that served the certain communities.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=702.0,732.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Like here or in South America or whether they came from Halab, or whatever it is -- there- -- they- -- I don't think they see eye to eye, frankly speaking, in their points of view as how- -- how to handle musical material for liturgical purposes. There is an- -- there is a division of philosophies of how to use Arabic music. And when you're talking about Arabic music, you're talking about maqam.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=732.0,760.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Essentially. There are different points of view and different renditions. Frankly speaking, consi- -- you can listen to two cantors and you could almost spot those geographically and say, oh, this guy's a Halebi, this guy -- no; this guy is from eretz Yisrael. But, otherwise, outside of that area, I mean, we don't have cantors performing in the community. I mean, I would say from Morocco or from Turkey or from Greece. We don't have -- or from, well --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=760.0,795.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Seroussi:  From Egypt?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  -- the rest would've been from the- -- the- -- the- -- the- -- the Ladinos --that had in their areas. Also, they don't perform in our area.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Won't you please tell us your name and when you were born?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  My name is Moses Tawil- -- Tawil in the Arabic connotation.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  And you were -- and tell us when you were born.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=795.0,815.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Moses Tawil:  I was born on April 7, 1915 -- here in New York\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Okay. And why don't you tell us the capacity which you've served in the community -- when and where you've served as a cantor and your activities now.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Well, I- -- I have to tell you first, it's not only I -- every one of my brothers has more or less served in more or less the same capacity that I describe. We- -- we are all involved and have been involved in batei kenessiot and yeshivot. I was vice president of the Magen David Yeshiva. I was chairman of the educational department. I was vice president of Shaare Tziyon. My brother, Yitzhak, Isaac, Alavei Shalom, he was the president also of Shaare Tziyon. Excuse me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=815.0,862.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMOSES TAWIL:\u003c/strong\u003e I was president of the congregation in Bradley Beach, the summer resort where we used to attend, and I've always been involved in many different facets of the community work. This is...I would say it's a way of life, the whole--just a real family.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=862.0,881.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eKLIGMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e So, your father did the same thing?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=881.0,883.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Moses Tawil:  Absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Your father [indiscernible]?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  My father was the first president of the wonderful edifice that was built in 1923 on 67th Street, the original Magen David Synagogue --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  In- -- in Bensonhurst.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  -- congregation. He was its first president and one of its pillars -- one of the main founders of that synagogue.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  When did your father came from --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=883.0,905.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Moses Tawil:  About 1913, 1912. This is our best- --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  So, right before you were born?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  --  Yes. I was born 1915. Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  1915. And was he a cantor, too, among other --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Yes. I have to correct you with -- you're- -- you're all referring to us as cantors. We consider ourselves cantors of fantasia -- of luxury.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=905.0,925.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMOSES TAWIL:\u003c/strong\u003e But I mean, none of us does it for a living. None of us does it professionally. By professionally, I mean we don't get paid for our cantorial talents. We are volunteers. And we just happen to be from a family who is really imbued with this feeling--cantorial feeling--and also the Arabic singing. As a youth I sang only Arabic. And...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=925.0,955.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eKLIGMAN:\u003c/strong\u003e When did you start singing the pizmonim and leading services?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=955.0,960.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMOSES TAWIL:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, let me face it. At the age of seven we went to Mexico City -- and my parents -- from here. And my first love was Spanish music from the ages of seven to about 13. From 13 onwards, I became e- -- enamored with the Arabic music.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=960.0,979.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Really, I was very influenced by particularly the talent of Abdul Wahab. Although in my house there was music all the time and I was very familiar with all of the older artists in the Arabic world of music -- I'm talking about Abdul Hayish, Iyech Yousef, Umm Kulthum, Zaki Murrad, Zafadish, all of these. They were always pl- -- that music was always played and used in our homes. And, in the back of my mind, it was always there and I grew with it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=979.0,1009.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But then when I really fell in love and re- -- int- -- with the Arabic music, nothing could replace it because it's a very, very broad music, based on the maqāmāt. It's just so broad. Like, when I tell my friends, the Ashkenazim, there's -- prayers are beautiful but they're based, as far as I can see, on two, maqāmāt hijaz and nahawand. We have traditionally maybe 10 or 12 principal maqāmāt and so many branches. And every Shabbat is based on a certain maqam.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1009.0,1039.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The basis of the t'filla is centered on that particular maqam -- does not mean that we don't vary. We vary depending on the proficiency of the hazzan. But that has the -- that is the base. And I -- as I explained to you before, the- -- the -- I mean, with us, I feel a t'filla is, you're drawing, actually, a picture. It's- -- it's like a pattern that you have to draw.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1039.0,1066.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When we start early musically, injecting- -- injecting music into the t'filla, we start from Hashem Melekh. This is where we start orally, melodiously delivering part of the t'filla. From there, we go to and on Shabbat, for example, the zemirot before Barukh She’Amar. Barukh She’Aamar, usually right after the first three or four lines, the second -- next barukh will now change the maqam. The Hashem Melekh usually -- originally, is set in the maqam of the basis of the t'filla which is Nishmat Kol Hai.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1066.0,1100.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, from the- -- the -- from the Barukh She’Amar the rest of the Halleluyot are usually based on a different maqam so as not to undercut the maqam of the day. And that is the pattern. Our t'filla is delivered vocally from the beginning to the end and when the hazzan starts with the -- even with the Hashem Melekh and the rest of the Halleluyot and particularly with th Nishmat Kol Hai, onwards through the Amidah, it's practically a concert from the first word to the last one. It's all sung melodiously and it's all vocal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1100.0,1138.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kligman:  Can you tell us something about the activities that you've been involved with the cantorial institute here?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Yes. I- -- I established this cantorial institute about two years a- -- two years ago exactly. When it had- -- it had [indiscernible].\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  And please tell us the name of the institute -- and- -- and- -- and- -- as well.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  It's- -- it's- -- it's the Moe Tawil Cantorial Seminary and it is housed in the Sephardic Center -- Community Center.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1138.0,1166.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMOSES TAWIL:\u003c/strong\u003e I tried to establish something like that many times in years past and it was touch and go. Either they'd come or they wouldn't come. They wouldn't attend. They wouldn't have the proper instructors attending regularly and so -- but this time, it just took hold and Barukh HaShem -- we have some very promising students who, in the future, will become prominent hazzanim in our communities.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1166.0,1187.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Seroussi:  Who is teaching?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  We're teaching, basically, David Shiro, who will be joining me later on, Yehezkiel Zion and I lecture, and my brother, David, also.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1187.0,1200.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Seroussi:  Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And what prompted you to establish such an institute? I mean, because hazzanut was transmitted from -- generation to generation -- without institutes. What --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Actually- -- actually, we are -- our expertise really comes from my father, Alavei Shalom.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1200.0,1219.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He was a great, great musician and he was very knowledgeable in the science of the maqāmāt. And whatever we know -- even my voice training -- was really due to his efforts. He was very, very accomplished musician. He was a contemporary of Hacham Moshe Askar and, if I'm not mistaken, he was also involved with Raphael Antebi Taboush in his days in Yerushalayim.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1219.0,1245.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kligman:  Did he ever talk about Taboush?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Yes; he mentioned -- of course, they- -- they were- -- mentioned Hacham Raphael Taboush. He -- Hacham Raphael Taboush was really phenomenal. He was blind. And it w- -- it is said -- as all the narratives said about him -- he used to go to the cafes -- the Arab cafes -- and he would sit outside and as soon as he listened to a song that he liked, they say that he would memorize it that same evening and the next morning, he would be already composing a pizmon based on that song.  It was really something that's very, very outstanding.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1245.0,1281.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kligman:  Mm. Did your father compose any piyyutim?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  No. No, he did not. Like I said, none of us have. We're -- I said, we're not professional. We -- to work with us is a work of love.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Going back to my question.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  My question was, all this tradition was transmitted from generation -- let's say from your father to you -- without the necessity of institutionalized -- frameworks. But now it seems it- -- dis- -- this is an American phenomenon or --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1281.0,1313.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMOSES TAWIL:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, I -- no. Well, you asked me why. I mean, y- -- you put your finger right on it. Before, it was homegrown. Literally homegrown. Depending on the home, this is the -- how much expertise you are able to get. Now, I mean, I'm one of the few left of the seniors in this community and having the feeling that I do have for the beauty of our traditional way of tefilot,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1313.0,1343.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I felt that it needs to be transmitted to some of the people. Now, there are young men who are interested and they're like -- and they're at a disadvantage in that there is really no institution -- no place where they can go and say, well, this is a school where they teach hazzanut the way we -- we don't have such a thing. And that's what inspired me to try to start something of that order and it's taken hold.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1343.0,1369.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Seroussi:  And they're teaching the hazzanut of Halab or --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Only.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Only that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Only.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Yeah. Let's focus on that subject.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  That's- -- that's what it's focused on.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  And do they teach in music -- let's say more in- -- in general terms or they only teach the maqāmāt in relation to t'filla or the -- for example, it doesn't include the teaching of an instrument -- a musical instrument or --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1369.0,1392.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMOSES TAWIL:\u003c/strong\u003e No, it does not. It -- it -- it includes- -- it -- it just incorporates the -- the -- the def- -- the hazzanut for the t'filla and pizmonim -- and bakkashot.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd we are thinking now of also trying to teaching at -- also at the suggestion of my brother, David, who is familiar and relates the maqāmāt to western notes --to teach them to read, also, music -- Western notes. This is -- if we can succeed to that, it will be -- it will be --  also an accomplishment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1392.0,1425.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Seroussi :  Do they use materials that come from Israel? Like, there are no tapes about maqams with examples of different maqams or --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  We haven't so far. We haven't needed them. We haven't so far. I mean, I've heard -- I- -- I happened to have had one tape from a school -- I think it's in Tel Aviv, an academy of music there -- and they have “Know your Makamat”. They have about 22 --maqāmāt recorded on -- but we- -- we haven't really- -- really resorted to that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1425.0,1453.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kligman:  Lastly, can you, kind of, just tell us when you have served a- -- as a hazzan here in the community?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  This is ongoing.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Ongoing.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  I mean, in the Yamim Noraim -- this past Yamim Noraim, my good friend, David Shiro, insisted I come to the teva to join with him. And, th- -- this is ongoing. I mean, wherever we happen to be, people will ask us, will you please pray?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  So, you did this as- -- as a young boy? Or is it- -- is it at your bar mitzvah?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1453.0,1483.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Moses Tawil:  I -- yes. I -- yes. I must -- I started doing it, actually, right after alhavei shalom, my father [indiscernible] which, at that time, I was 17 years old. But my brothers were already proficient in it and they- -- they did it all the time. As I said before, I always just sang Arabic.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Mm-hmm. Okay. Maybe before we get- -- have your brother David come, is there anything else you want to tell us about your- -- your brothers? Naphtali? About --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1483.0,1492.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMOSES TAWIL:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, you know, you keep eve- -- you keep mentioning Naphtali and everyone knows, of course, he was outstanding. But you have to know, my older bro- -- oldest brother, Ezra -- Ezra was very proficient. He was the official hazzan for us when we -- when my father, alhavei shalom passed away. Then we created the Bnai Magen David because my father was not there anymore in the synagogue so we felt rather -- well, sort of l- -- lost. So, we went and we com- -- in the same congregation, we took the- -- the- -- the Talmud Torah facilities there and we formed Bnai Magen David.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1492.0,1549.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And many of the youngsters -- or many of the men that now t- -- i- -- b- -- in the -- either that read the Torah or are hazzanim, they really trained while we formed this Bnai Magen David in that per- -- in that period.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  And so your brothers were a part of that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  My brother, Ezra alhavei shalom, he volunteered to be the hazzan for Bnai Magen David. We couldn't afford to spend any money. And he was the hazzan -- the official hazzan there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1549.0,1578.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Seroussi:  Yeah. I -- but you told us that the hazzanut was not for the reward of -- financial reward. So -- but there were in the Halebi community, hazzanim that were payed?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Yes; they all were. M- -- yes. A- -- all of them. It's just that -- yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  And this is since the beginning or something that developed here --in America- -- the- -- the- -- the payed cantor, let's call it, instead of…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  No; we all --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  … the shaliach tzibur  --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Every synagogue- -- now you understand I'm going way back when we had only one or two synagogues.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1578.0,1606.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMOSES TAWIL:\u003c/strong\u003e Today we have, ken yirbu, in- -- in this immediate community, have maybe 15 or 20. And in Deal, we started just a short 20 years or so ago we started praying in the- -- in the police station. Today there are 12 beautiful synagogues in the immediate area of Deal. Every one of those synagogues requires hazzan -- a hazzan. And they are all -- of course, they are all officially employed as paid hazzanim. Of course they do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1606.0,1632.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Seroussi:  But my question was that traditionally the- -- the cantors were really Shalichei Tzibur -- representatives of the congregation.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  I would say so; yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  -- who had other --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Going way back.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  -- businesses and --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  That's right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  -- they- -- they didn't --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  That's right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  They didn't -- yeah; they didn't require that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  So, you see, this is an American phenomenon -- a person that has a- -- a- -- a position and a- -- and an income coming from conducting the prayers?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  I would say so; yes. Yes. I would definitely say so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1632.0,1658.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kligman: I was wondering if you can tell us in a little more detail about how maqāmāt are used within the t'filla.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Well, really, it's all based on tradition. For example, in the maqam for the parashah -- the first parashah of every sefer is rast. The reason for it, really, could be maybe there was a pizmon that was composed with had tha- -- with had inyan yamei oma  of that day and so they adopted that maqam for the first- -- for the first parashah of a sefer. When there's a mila involved – when Avraham Avinu had a mila the -- the makam is saba.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1658.0,1701.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hayye Sarah -- that is supposedly a sad period -- so, we use hijaz and yet, I understand that hijaz, in other places, is used for happy occasions. Frankly, hijaz is a very beautiful maqam, but I think it's just all tradition. In Israel, they use for a bar mitzvah, the maqam saba. We never use this for- -- for -- we only use it usually, either for Shabbat mila, only mila we do that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1701.0,1730.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, it's really basi- -- the basis of it, either it- -- there is, as I said before, there's either a mention of some passage of the particular parashah in one of the pizmonim. So, they adapt that pizmon -- that- -- that maqam, rather -- for that particular parashah. But, further than that, we know not the reason why. It's just- -- just tradition.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1730.0,1755.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kligman:  Before we talk about how to in- -- incorporate into prayer, maybe, David, would you like to tell us a bit about maqam seyga?  And how maqam seyga is…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Well, before we go to maqam seyga, I just want to point out how interesting it is that the essence of all the maqam's rises from the maqam rast. The maqam rast is the one that initiated a new phase of modes that were non-existent in the European-American systems. From the point of view that, you have the major scales and you have the minor scales.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1755.0,1790.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In the Arabic music, everything is initiated with rast. Rast became the key to all of the maqams that they -- that are in existence as far as the Arab world is concerned. And you will find that the difference lies, interestingly enough -- in a minor key, you will have, for instance, a- -- a full note and a half a note -- and that makes a minor key.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1790.0,1815.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Three notes, from, let's say C to D and D will go to D f- -- D sharp or E flat and that makes a minor chord. The major chord, C to D, D to E. Full notes. The rast concept -- the rast philosophy said, wait. I'm going right in the middle of their sandwich. So, they went from C to D and E q- -- and from D to E quarter flat. People keep talking about a quarter note. There's no such thing as a quarter note. It's a three-quarter note.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1815.0,1852.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That creation became the- -- the moment when all of the other maqams started springing and becoming so fascinating, utilizing this concept of a three-quarter note instead of -- not a half note, not a full note, but a three-quarter note. So, that it was the initiation of all the type of music that comes in the Arab world, apparently that- -- that's why they started using the maqam rast. From rast, you go over into bayat, right into bayat and into seyga,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1852.0,1881.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"One after the other. S- -- and interestingly enough, the musical notes in the Arab world, are designated such, rast -- they call the D “Doga” or- -- or -- which actually the bayat note. And the seyga note, right after it. Those are the three consequences of the initial creation -- the nucleus of where the Arabic world got its music, actually. It's a fascinating piece of scientific -- evolution that they've had there. Now, you shot another question at me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1881.0,1915.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kligman:  The question was, we- -- we had- -- Moe had described to us the use of rast --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  -- the use of hijaz and the use of saba. And maybe you can tell us about ajam and seyga?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Well, ajam, apparently is o- -- o- -- obviously is a- -- is a melody structure that comes from its geographical areas. There was lands, areas, called ‘Ajam’. Apparently, they used that mode of -- they used that mode, in essence, and it was designated as such, ’Ajam’. As to its utilization, this is the major scale, you know. ajam is in the European major scale. Where did they get to get a major scale from? Probably from ajam.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1915.0,1954.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's all I can tell you. But seyga --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  But tell us how --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  -- is a problem.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Tell us first, how ajam is used associated in the t'filla.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  There really is no -- it's a very- -- very happy type of a  -- melody.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  It's a type of parashah that would be associated with our --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  With ajam.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  A happy parashah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Happy parashah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Yes, interesting material with ajam. But that would be a -- really a- -- a- -- a second guess. All this is second guessing why they have ajam produced but the --I think my brother Mo hit it on the head. It's tradition and--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1954.0,1986.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"--that's why they adapted. There was a pizmon with a mentioning of the parashah of the week in it, so, they slapped it on. They said, let's make it ajam this week. Okay? But then the- -- the- -- the flavor of the ajam itself is a -- it's a universal kind of a music. The whole world ha- -- uses ajam. Very nice, very pleasant, very commodious, and very easy to use. But seyga -- seyga, is a- -- is a difficult maqam, actually.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=1986.0,2015.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's a difficult maqam from the point of view that it doesn't lend itself to mold too readily into any other maqams. So, why it was used in keriyat sefer Torah? There is a theory that this is from bayit sheini, it’s a hand down from bayit sheini, maqam seyga . Interestingly enough, the Saadia Gaon, in his writings -- brings out a very fascinating point that if you do not read the Kriyat ha-Torah with the maqam that's designated unto it, which is the maqam seyga, he says you will never understand what you're reading.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2015.0,2055.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You need to use the maqam seyga to really bracket the phraseology of the Torah to understand its meanings. So -- and that was already 9- -- 940 -- year 940, when Saadia Gaon wrote this in his books. So, apparently, it- -- it was fresh in their minds -- the maqam -- or as they designated at that point, maqam seyga. From bayit sheini it’s very plausible that had been handed down.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2055.0,2081.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean, there were no pikers. After all, they had the- -- the Leviim that served in the beit haMikdash were phenomenal and numerous without end. I mean, if they can have 240 gentlemen standing as a chorus -- standing on the steps of the beit haMikdash to sing with- -- with the korbanot, apparently, they knew a lot of music. So, that- -- that --could've been a hand down.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  -- the- -- the system of maqams in- -- you inherited from your- -- from your --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Parents.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  -- fam- -- From your parents, actually --in- -- indirectly, has it suffer any changes -- alterations?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2081.0,2119.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, instead of talking about suffering, has it had any developments here in America because of your exposure to other -- for example, to Egyptian music, perhaps? Or it has all- -- it had remained more or less --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Well, you're --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  -- intact --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  You're talking about --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  -- as it was?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  -- a constant. You're talking about a constant. The maqam system is all over the Arab world. There is no way to eradicate a maqam. You- -- you- -- the only way you would do is you would neglect it. Like --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2119.0,2149.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"--frankly speaking, here, until the Israeli hazzanim have been coming through in the past 15, 20 years, we were very neglectful of one of the eight major maqams which was maqam kurd.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Kurd. Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  We neglected it, frankly speaking. We built very little music around it, very little liturgy around it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Well, I believe that Abdul Wahab had popularized that maqam --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  That's true, too. In the 30s. That's right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Is it- --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  This is what they mean by a change that will --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Yes; that's right,\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  It was in existence. No. What I'm trying to say is this has been in existence all along.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2149.0,2185.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Its utilization is coming into certain periods where it's becoming popularized and so on.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  And that's because of songs --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Songs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  -- that were composed based on that maqam.  Now, talking about that, I want to tell you that, in the lecture that I- -- that I gave to these people at the Hofstra University, one very pointed question was- -- was presented when I described to them the basis of our tefilot and how we use which maqam for which Shabbat and where do we get your music? I tell them, from all over the world.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2185.0,2224.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"One of them was very discerning. He says, aren't you afraid that you will lose your traditional music by going all over? I says, no. We never lose. We're always gaining w- because we never give up anything. And it came to our mind that- -- that they -- let me give an example. [singing] I says, this Moshe Ashkar composed a pizmon for a young boy for his bar mitzvah. This pizmon was based on the school song, \"Sixty-two, My Sixty-two\" -- that was that. So, obviously, the family asked him, will you compose -- the boy -- can you compose a song -- a pizmon?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2224.0,2262.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yes, he did. So, when I work with Kay Shelemay, she research it, she says this comes from Italy. Italy -- and Italy took it from somewhere else. I says, now what do we do with this? We say, [he sings this melody to Semechim be-Tsetam]. We never lose. We just adopted something. We don’t give them anything. What is ajam. So, we use it to write our maqam ajam prayers. So --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2262.0,2286.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kligman:  And the way it came into the community is because 62 represents public school 62?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Yes. Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  It was the song for Public School 62?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  That's right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  62.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  So, really, again, we're constantly gaining. We take -- we're at -- whatever fits or whatever comes to our mind and whatever we like and we just adapt it. So, we're not giving up anything so long as the basis is maqam.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2286.0,2309.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Seroussi:  So, there are no limits for this process of adopting?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Pardon?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  There is -- there are no limits?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  No, there's no limits. No limits whatsoever.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Oh, absolutely. But a matter of fact, that's just the point that you really not -- want to put your finger on that as new music keeps coming out, it is constantly being absorbed by- -- by our liturgy. By the- -- by the Halebia. If something is -- fits parts of our t'filla, it's adapted.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2309.0,2336.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Seroussi:  My question comes because the Hasidic communities have some similarities in- -- in- -- in the sense of adopting from- -- from their surrounding areas and --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Well, you're going to notice now, that when we do the Nishmat of the Rosh Hashanah this is a melody that, alhavei shalom my brother, Isaac, and I composed for Nishmat.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2336.0,2360.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And oddly enough, the first time that we delivered it was with Moshe Ashkar who ask us to stand with him on the teiva on -- I think it was Yom Kippur.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  This goes back to 1940? 1930?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  That's right. In 19- -- no. It goes back to 19 --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Thirty.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  -- 33. 1933 that was my father was alive yet. That was the last year that he was alive. 1933.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2360.0,2383.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And- -- and we had performed at that -- or we made changes to 5th. I think you're going to find it very attractive when we do it. I've also – David Shiro -- I've taught it to him, he- -- he- -- we'll- -- we'll do it together.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  And where's the melody from?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Abdul Wahab. It's a beautiful melody.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Which song of Abdul Wahab? Do you- -- do you remember?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Not fair. That's almost 70 years ago.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  I'll remember. I'll- -- it -- the path will -- come to me. I'll give it to you.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  You heard it in a record.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  From a record.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Yes, in a record.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2383.0,2418.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Seroussi:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  In a record.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Now, the- -- the- -- the previous question, just to finish us, to the limits of borrowing or- -- or adapting; okay? So- -- so, se- -- the Hasidic also have the same.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  If 15 years ago, the Hasidim in Israel started to adopt a melody that was from a German song -- a German pop song and the Rabbi says, this is the --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Halila.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  -- limit. We- -- we don't want this melody because it's a very bad song originally. So, that was my question concerning limits. There should be some limits? Or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2418.0,2448.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Moses Tawil:  Well, we asked that question to Hacham Ovadia Yosef. Who, as you know, is in authority for us and he happens to be --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  And a great musician, too.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  He happens to be a great musician.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  And we ask him. He says, no. You're taking something. You're taking it out of non-kedusha and you’re putting it into kedusha.  That song is “Yallel Ata Yalawa”, the title of it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Thank you. Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Oh, the one in nahwand. Yeah. Very pretty.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2448.0,2484.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kligman:  So, describe to us the processes so that you- -- you have a particular Arabic song which becomes a pizmon. And then how do those melodies then come into the t'filla?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Well, we take part of that melody and we fit it. And some of them don't. I mean, for example, this one that- -- that I just mentioned. There's no pizmon on that. We just -- it was a beautiful piece of music -- -- and we adapted it and we -- and it fit exactly into the liturgical portion that we wanted it to be fit into.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2484.0,2511.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But we made it responses. In other -- one part, one says one part, one -- it's very attractive. We just fit it. I mean, we could look -- like, I just mentioned Hacham Raphael Antebi Taboush -- he'd sit in the café and if he heard the melody of that -- it's the same thing with us. I mean, if we hear a melody that's very nice, it took -- it fits into part of the prayers, we'll adopt it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2511.0,2530.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kligman:  Have you ever adapted a non-Arabic melody?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Yes; I just mentioned one.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  62nd Street.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  My Country Tis of Thee -- we use that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  I mention more American --","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2530.0,2547.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Moses Tawil:  And- -- and- -- and- -- and that --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  -- and that's very --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Yes. In my country, we use it in the keter.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Mm-hmm. Can you --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  [Singing].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2547.0,2579.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kligman:  When I was at Beit Torah, they did that right before the -- like, the anniversary of Pearl Harbor.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Well, there you are.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Like, Pearl Harbor Day just is sort of, the -- yeah -- American --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  And also, there's some Israeli melodies, too, that- -- that have -- that are used in community for keter as well.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Certainly. Yes. Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Nothing is forbidden.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Oh, yes. Nothing --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e[Talking over each other]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2579.0,2597.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kligman:  But the majority of the melodies are Arabic.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Majority are Arabic.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  The majority are Arabic.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Are Arabic; yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Now, another issue that we touched before but we said that we will keep it for the opportunity that the two -- both of you are here. This is the relationship between the hazzanut of your communities here in Brooklyn and what's coming on from Israel. In a sense that, there- -- there are deep -- they are connected but they're different.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2597.0,2624.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Seroussi:  And --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Well, I --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  -- can you point out some of these?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Yes. When you mention Israel, first of all, we've got to think of where the hazzan is coming from -- which synagogue -- which community? For example, David Shiro, he happened to be a hazzan in a Halebi Synagogue. So, he adopts to us much, much better.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2624.0,2644.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kligman:  The synagogue from Tel Aviv, right?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Yehezkiel Zion is from Tel Aviv. Wasn't it Tel Aviv? Yes. Is from Tel Aviv. They- -- I went to his synagogue- -- as a matter of fact, I only went to his synagogue really to listen to David Reachi.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  But David Reachi is from Tunisia.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2644.0,2662.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMOSES TAWIL:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay. He's Tunisian and he is a great, great artist. He is a professor of music -- to the ultimate degree. And his- -- his voice is a little gruff but when I go to Israel, many approach me, oh, hi, Mr. Tawil, I'm hazzan. You're hazzan? And be- -- because I know there's always opportunities for hazzanim here in the United States. Halebi- -- Halebi is- -- Halebi- -- Halebi; yes. Okay. Let- -- let me hear something. Where? Now. Here. All I have to hear is just a few notes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2662.0,2696.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Seroussi:  Yeah. A few notes, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  I'm sorry. It's- -- it's not for us. When David Reachi called I was at the King David Hotel having breakfast with my dear wife and there was a telephone call. I don't want to waste their time and I says, well, we're having breakfast would you like to have- -- come up and have a cup of coffee with us? Yes. They came up. Came up and, as I said, he has a little gruff voice and he says he is a hazzan -- I forgot where, I think somewhere in Netanya. I said, “Yes, would you say something?”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2696.0,2723.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"“Would you sing something?” He says, yes; what would you like me to sing? I- -- I picked a pizmon -- I forgot. One of the seyga pizmonim. Ein Pikod.”  Pizmon “Ein Pikod” .  I said do you know pizmon “Ein Pikod” he says, “yes”? He says, yes. He started singing. He said three lines. He says, what do you pray? I said, I want come listen to you and I engaged him just to use his professionalism to train our -- the- -- the- -- the science of maqamat to our other hazzanim. He's very professional.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2723.0,2758.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And there's a rumor that he might come to Florida this winter to pray with us. We're building a new synagogue in Florida.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  There you go.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  In North Miami. In Turnberry. So, there's rumor -- \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  This is for the winter season?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  For the winter. And subsequent to that, I engaged him for Yamim Noraim, Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, here in Shaare Zion","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2758.0,2783.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Seroussi:  You mean David Reachi don't --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  David Reachi. And then after that -- several years after that, we engaged him in Deal for --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  For the summer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  -- for summers.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  So, now you're moving. You have a summer season, winter season --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Season and a -- and a New York season. And an in between season.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  And Mo’s here for the holidays.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2783.0,2802.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Seroussi:  Okay. So, basically, do you find the difference between the -- let's say the Sephardi- -- what in Israel, I assume, we call the Sephardic Jerusalem cantors -- \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Oh, yes. Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  -- and the Halebi cantors. It's two different, let's say --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  -- like cousins --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  -- but not --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e Moses Tawil:  Ye- -- yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  -- brothers.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  They are very different.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  And the difference is on the different approach to maqams or on the intonation of each maqam if you know what I mean.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Yes. Well, in- -- at- -- no. It's the styling of the music that they use. For example, if they have a Turkish background, it's a bit different than ours.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  But Turkish is different.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2802.0,2834.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Moses Tawil:  Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  I'm talking about the j- -- the- -- the Egyptian -- the Sephardi Jerusalem is mostly [indiscernible] -- \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  When- -- when many- -- when ma- -- as some of the hazzanim there have a Turkish background and they are Sephardim and they pray much more or less in- -- in our style but it's different. They have a different flavor to their prayers. Of course, you could start depicting other concepts to Sephardim, the Greek Sephardim, the Ladinos -- it's very different from --our prayers.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Of course. Of course.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Completely different.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  That's very different.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2834.0,2865.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Moses Tawil:  So, we try always to look for when we want to engage some of the hazzans' there, we try to have ones that have a closer association, even in Israel, with the Halebi - groups or people and things like that. Particularly, there with the -- can I say -- Ades.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Ades. Of course. Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Well, rather than me asking a question, I just would like to know if either of you would like to share some other final thoughts with us about the tradition.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Well --\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Things we haven't covered that you think are really important.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  Something for posterity.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2865.0,2896.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMOSES TAWIL:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I think, my brother, David's, going to express his own opinion but I'll express my opinion also. I must say that I consider the musical background and the system of the t'filla, tefilot, of the Halebi to be the most outstanding and superior to any other tefilot. I mean, of course, I'm partial to it but they are so replete with the artistry and with planning and that -- as I said before, it's a design.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2896.0,2930.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You l- -- the whole t'filla is like painting a picture from beginning to end and it's all vocal and it's all melodious. And it's really a beau- -- beautiful way of delivering a t'filla.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  David?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Thank you.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Well, I was just thinking from point of view of liturgical renditions, the Halebi system from point of view of pure music,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2930.0,2956.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eDAVID TAWIL:\u003c/strong\u003e has a cons- -- seems to have a concept of making a maqam a major endeavor rather than, and in contrast to, what other hazzanim do from other areas in trying to intertwine so many of the different filaments of the maqams into one little, compact area. The embellishment of a particular maqam is best handled from the Halebia. A simple one. Let's take nahawand.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2956.0,2989.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When they sing nahawand, they will take that entire entity of prayer let’s say Shacharit shel Shabbat -- and utilize it there in many forms, many rhythms, many shades of its uti- -- utilization but it's nahawand. On the other hand, we find that cantors of other areas not Halebi, have a tendency to constantly intertwine and mix -- if possible -- 32 maqams into one little, compact composition. Which, frankly speaking, is not as masterful and not as pleasant to listen to as the Halebia system.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=2989.0,3030.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Seroussi:  So, we could end by saying -- you only have to answer yes or no -- that there is more chance for the Halebi tradition to survive in Brooklyn than in Israel?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Absolutely. No doubt about it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Certainly.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSeroussi:  So, America was good for the Halebi tradition?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMoses Tawil:  Both way. We were good for it, too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=3030.0,3051.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732/transcript/24119/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Seroussi:  Thank you very much really.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Thank you.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKligman:  Thank you so much, Mr.- -- \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eDavid Tawil:  Thank you very much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39357/file/110732#t=3051.0,3066.368"}]}]}]}