{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/m61bk1796p/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Adolphe, Bruce (1998)"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Preferred Citation"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eAdolphe, Bruce. 1998. Interview by Neil W. Levin. Milken Archive Oral History Project. 24 February.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Milken Family Foundation"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e© Milken Family Foundation. Unauthorized use is prohibited. For inquiries, please contact info@milkenarchive.org.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Levin, Neil W. (Interviewer)","Adolphe, Bruce (Composer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1998-02-24"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Rochester, NY (Place of Recording)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (Primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eInterview with Bruce Adolphe, who provides an in-depth discussion of some of his major Jewish compositions. He begins by talking his operas, Mikhoels the Wise (1982) and The False Messiah (1983), detailing their origins and first performances. Following this, Adolphe covers other compositions, including Ladino Songs of Love and Suffering (1984), Out of the Whirlwind (1984), and Rikudim (1980).\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Oral Histories (genre/form)","Jews — Music (Topical Term)","Folk songs, Russian. (Topical Term)","Theater, Yiddish (Topical Term)","Zevi, Sabbatai, 1626-1676 (Person or Corporate Body)","Robeson, Paul, 1898-1976. (Person Or Corporate Body)","Adolphe, Bruce (Person or Corporate Body)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Keyword"]},"value":{"en":["Alexandre Tasman (1897-1986), Dream Dance (chamber), dybbuk, Erie Mills (soprano), folk music, Ladino Songs of Love and Suffering, Mikhoels the Wise (opera), opera, Out of the Whirlwind, Paul Robeson (1898-1976), Rikudim (chamber), Sabbatai Zevi (1626-1676), Shulamit Ran (b. 1949), The False Messiah (opera), Workmens’ Circle Chorus, Yiddish theater"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eInterview with Bruce Adolphe, who provides an in-depth discussion of some of his major Jewish compositions. He begins by talking his operas, Mikhoels the Wise (1982) and The False Messiah (1983), detailing their origins and first performances. Following this, Adolphe covers other compositions, including Ladino Songs of Love and Suffering (1984), Out of the Whirlwind (1984), and Rikudim (1980).\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u0026copy; Milken Family Foundation. Unauthorized use is prohibited. For inquiries, please contact info@milkenarchive.org.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/110/801/small/Bruce-Adolphe.jpg?1618940559","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - L1873_MA_Oral_History_Adolphe_2017_Logo.mp4"]},"duration":2224.0,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/110/801/small/Bruce-Adolphe.jpg?1618940559","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-milken.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/110/801/original/L1873_MA_Oral_History_Adolphe_2017_Logo.mp4?1616172558","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":2224.0,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Edited Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eNEIL LEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Mr. Adolphe, we are talking tonight about some of the music that pertains to Jewish experience in America.  I’m particularly interested, in the first place, about your two operas, which I was privileged to hear.  I heard both of them, at their premiere performances at the 92nd Street YMHA.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=20.0,34.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRUCE ADOLPHE:  Thanks for coming.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  It was good.  It was a good experience. And I remember, let’s take the first one, if I, if memory serves me correctly, the first one was Mikhoels the Wise.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Is that correct?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  How did that come in to be?  What’s the story behind it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=34.0,46.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I was interested in writing an opera on a Jewish subject for the Y.  Actually, they had actually asked me to think about that.  And the first thoughts, which I didn’t want to deal with, were about Bible stories and things like this, which I had no interest in doing.  But I wasn’t sure what I wanted to do. So I started to focus on the idea of 20th century Jewish history.  And I still needed to find, basically, a librettist and a story.  So, I called people in the theater that I knew.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=46.0,74.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e And I, luckily, stumbled upon a guy named Mel Gordon, who was teaching the history of theater at NYU.  And I heard about his reputation and tremendous interest in Yiddish theater and in the history of Jewish theater and in Russian theater, and that’s exactly what I was interested in. So we got together, and he told me he was working on a play called Mikhoels the Wise, and he didn’t know what to do with it, and he felt it might not be a good play.  He had never written a play before, nor had he written an opera. But I took a look at it and I, I said, “We’ve got to do this together.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=74.0,105.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e And so, I didn’t really know the story of Mikhoels, which is an, a remarkable and terrifying and funny, first, then terrifying story of a great Yiddish actor who became this symbol of Jewish acting at that time, all over the world and especially, of course, in Russia.  And he also became a symbol of Yiddish, because he acted in Yiddish only.  He did King Lear in Yiddish.  And we have films of this, which we’ve seen.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd Mikhoels’s daughters, of course, are, they’re in Israel, and some of this material was made available to us to study.  So, I watched this man act great scenes of King Lear in Yiddish, which was extraordinary.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=105.0,143.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e So, we decided to tell the story of his rise to fame, and then his tragic end, which was that he was actually murdered by Stalin; not directly, but of course, indirectly.  And Stalin declared that Mikhoels was accidentally hit by a truck, and they were going to give him a state funeral, because he was such an important citizen. But he was laid out to be seen in the coffin, with his tongue cut out.  And people — with his mouth open, so people could see this.  And this clearly was a statement that Yiddish had no place in the current Soviet Union.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=143.0,179.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e And the story, the way we told it, is in scenes that focus on his rise, his humor, his wit, his great acting ability, and then, his interest in communism, and how he believed in what Stalin believed in — at least, what Stalin said he believed in — and how Mikhoels was then sent to America as a spokesperson to bring Jews to the Soviet Union.  And he was successful. He spoke at the Polo Grounds and got, I believe, over a thousand Jews to come to a place called Birobidzhan, which was promised to be a homeland for Jews before there was Israel.  And there was a massacre there.  And almost everyone who lived there, if not everyone, was killed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=179.0,219.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e And Mikhoels, of course, was not there at the time, but he was, he felt terribly responsible.  And in the end, he himself was killed.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd the music, also, is influenced by the shape of that story, which is it’s — the piece opens full of references to Jewish folk music and Russian folk music and klezmer, and it’s very upbeat.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=219.0,238.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  You have one w— I recall a moment, it’s just, it’s really a moment, where the orchestra breaks into a kind of authentic klezmer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  That’s right, that’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  But it’s just a moment.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  But there are a few moments.  But there are very few.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=238.0,251.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  But one in particular, with the trombone.  And I’ve often wondered how you captured that.  I mean…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  How, musically, or…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Yeah, musically.  The instrumentation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=251.0,260.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRUCE ADOLPHE:  Well, you know, there were only 14 instruments in this orchestra for Mikhoels, which had to do with financial considerations.  This was produced by Jewish Opera at the Y, 92nd Street Y. And I put together five strings — a string quartet plus bass; a harp, a flute, clarinet, oboe, bassoon, trombone, some percussion.  And in there, of course, are some good folk klezmer instruments.  You’ve got your clarinet and trombone and percussionist, which — and violin — which carry it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIt so happens that sitting in the orchestra was a young clarinet player who had at that time never been exposed to any klezmer playing.  And he was a totally straight clarinet player who fell in love with klezmer, partly through my piece.  And I asked him this recently, to see if I was right.  And he said yes.  And his name was David Krakauer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  David Krakauer — I was just going to…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=260.0,310.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes.  And he, I wrote out all of the licks, all of the little things that sounded like klezmer.  I made it sound like he was improvising.  And he went to town, and during the all, the great run of two performances, which was all they could afford to do, he went from playing it well to playing it like a great klezmer player.  He was so on fire.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd, as we all we know, now he’s become a master in klezmer, in the Giora Feidman tradition.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=310.0,330.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  There are scenes, for example, in that opera, there’s the, now, you mentioned the Polo Grounds.  I thought it Lewisohn Stadium.  But it was the Polo Grounds?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Well, you know, it says, and all the reviews started to call it Lewisohn Stadium, for some reason.  But it was the Polo Grounds.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  So that’s the confusion.  Because we’re talking about the scene where you have, where Paul Robeson…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  …makes…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=330.0,352.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRUCE ADOLPHE:  He makes a telephone hook-up appearance.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  With?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  With Charlie Chaplin and — I don’t think there’s anybody else, actually.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  But this was designed to be, to, to be shown in the Soviet Union at that time, or…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=352.0,364.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e At that time?  That was, that was actually meant, as staged, as a big publicity campaign for the Soviet Union, in which Charlie Chaplin and Paul Robeson and Solomon Mikhoels would represent three great popular celebrities who believed that the Soviet Union was a better place to live than the United States.  And at the time, they did believe that. And there are pictures of Mikhoels with Paul Robeson in a book, for example, in Shostakovich’s memoir, Testimony.  There are pictures of the two of them together.  And they were both duped.  And both lied to, and both taken advantage of.  And both were great spokes, spokespeople for the, for the cause, which they totally misunderstood.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=364.0,406.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  Well, of course, it was misunderstood by a lot of people.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  By everybody, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  The Yiddishists.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  I mean the Yiddish choruses here in New York sang the ode to the great Comrade Stalin in Yiddish.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Exactly.  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  But this particular, this was a very powerful scene.  I mean, I remember it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=406.0,425.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  And did you go, did you delve into much of Paul Robeson’s own story?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yes.  Well, I didn’t have to delve too much, because Mel Gordon had already done that, and he shared a lot of it with me.  And I read some other things.  And then I listened to lots of his recordings, and that was key to getting a feeling of the voice.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=425.0,443.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  Did you ever hear the recording of Paul Robeson singing the Kaddish of Levi Yitzhak of Berdichev?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  No, I didn’t ever hear that.  Do you have that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  It’s a very rare recording.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Is that now part of the Archive?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Well, no.  It will be, maybe, but I don’t know what the rights are with Paul Robeson.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=443.0,457.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  But Paul Robeson, he sang it in the Soviet Union.  And at that time, of course, you know the story that he, he, they took his passport away, later on, and so forth, because….  But and then the Supreme Court only much later said that the passport could not be — it was a right, not a privilege, it couldn’t be used as a punishment.  You could put someone in jail, but you couldn’t take their passport away from them. But at that time, Paul Robeson went to the Soviet Union, and he sang the song, the Kaddish of Levi Yitzhak of Berdichev, and he sang it in English.  So they wouldn’t know that it was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  What it was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=457.0,492.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  But then, when it came to the end, he sings yizgadol yizkaddash shimei rabbah.  Now, there is an old 78 recording of that.  Remind me.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  That’s amazing.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  I’ll make you a copy of it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yeah.  Please.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Of Paul Robeson singing this.  This magnificent Black bass singer…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  …singing that.  And so that’s what I’m…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Extraordinary.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=492.0,506.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eNEIL LEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Because it was a very powerful moment, even that incident that you have in the opera there. And then, you have, there’s a scene in there where the soprano — I believe, at that time it was Erie, wasn’t it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=506.0,519.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRUCE ADOLPHE:  Erie Mills.  It was her New York opera debut.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  It was?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  I didn’t realize that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yeah.  She played a Korean woman.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Mmmm-hmmm, right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  And she played a woman who was a border guard at Birobidzhan. Actually, there’s a funny story attached to that, not terribly much about the piece.  But, I had called the soprano Hai Kyung Hung, who is a Korean soprano, who is a wonderful singer.  And she didn’t want to even look at the part, because she didn’t want to play a Korean.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=519.0,545.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I said, “But you are Korean.” And she said, “I know.  But I don’t want to play a Korean.” And she didn’t explain it, so I didn’t do anything about it. And then, Erie Mills said that she was looking for something exciting to do, to make a splashy New York debut.  And I said, “Well, I don’t know how splashy this is going to be, but how about being a Korean border guard at Birobidzhan?”  So, of course, she was remarkable. And I remember, I told a lot of people who were coming to the opera, “You should listen to this soprano.  She’s extraordinary.” And someone told me, after the opera, “I don’t know about that Erie Mills, but that Korean woman was fabulous.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=545.0,577.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  Yeah, I remember it. The instrumentation for this, you mentioned, was prescribed by the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Well, just the number of instruments, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  But that’s no different from historically, is it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  No, no.  And it’s, that’s the way it’s always been.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=577.0,590.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  It’s always been that way, hasn’t it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yeah, absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Just so we don’t think that it’s just a financial crunch here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Oh, no, no, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Haydn had the same prescriptions?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Well, in different ways, but yes.  Yeah, I mean, I think every composer is always dealing with the reality of the finances, especially with opera.  And especially when opera is not, in a sense, mainstream opera at all. This, in a way, is marginal, because it had to be Jewish opera.  And it was produced by a place that is not an opera house.  I mean, they did not have — not only did they not have an orchestra, they just hired people.  They didn’t have any opera singers, they had to hire people.  They had — everything was brought in, because…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=590.0,625.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  I don’t remember who conducted that.  Amy?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Amy Kaiser.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Amy Kaiser?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Now, then a very unusual thing happened.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=625.0,633.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  And I think it’s probably, you’re probably the only one in this series at the Y, of Jewish opera, annual series, you were commissioned to do a second opera.  Is that correct?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Right.  Well, actually, what first happened was they wanted to do Mikhoels again.  And I kind of liked that idea.  But — and if I, if they did this now, now that I’m 42, I would say, “Great.  Let’s do it again.”  But this was 1984.  No — 1982, going into 1983.  And I had energy to burn like I wish it was possible to imagine being like that again.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=633.0,668.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Because, they said that to me in the spring that they wanted to do the opera again in the following spring.  And I said, “How about a new one?”  A two-and-a-half hour opera, a brand-new one, in less than a year, to write it, get it ready, with no idea, even what it would be. And, and they said, “Why do you want to do that?” I said, “Well, if you’re willing to, I would like to do that.” So, they said, “Let’s do it.  Let’s see what happens.” They took a huge risk.  And I said to Mel, “Let’s sit down and start again.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=668.0,692.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e And he happened to be, again, obsessed with something that I also was fascinated by, so we clicked once again.  And I haven’t seen him for years, actually, but at that time, we happened to really understand, be interested in the same subjects. And this was the story of Shabtai Zvi, sometimes called Sabbatai Zevi, who is known as the false Messiah.  And in this case, we threw ourselves into the Gershom Scholem book, The False Messiah. And this was made for opera, in many ways.  He in fact, in reality, sang when he gave his sermons.  And this is a man — shall I tell the story?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=692.0,728.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  Yeah.  Before you do, because you just, you said it was made for opera, which, I was going to say — I mean, there are certain subjects that are, that are made for opera.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  And I always wondered why.  I mean, this is one of those stories that one wonders why there haven’t been dozens…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  The Shabtai Zvi?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  …of various operas.  Even though they might not all — it might not be successful.  I mean, we can think of stories.  Where, I mean, there are…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yes, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=728.0,754.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  No, that we all know there’s more than one Bohème, and there’s more than one Edmond.  And then there are certain stories — I mean, for example, The Dybbuk.  I, we had…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  There are a lot of dybbuks.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  …we had an interview with Shulamit Ran, whom I’m sure you know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yes.  Very well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=754.0,767.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  And she had done some research before she did her most recent opera, which was Between Two Worlds, which is another dybbuk story.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  And she came up with 11 operas having been written on the dybbuk story alone.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yes.  Not to mention the ballets, and everything else.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Not to mention ballets and incidental music, and so forth.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Right.  Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=767.0,783.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  Just operas. The point is, the Shabtai Zvi is a natural, because of its melodrama, because of its grandeur…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  …because of the whole thing.  Did you come across, did you ever…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  One.  There is one.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Who?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  But before I tell you, I have to tell you I didn’t know about it until after the opera was over.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Till after you performed it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=783.0,797.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRUCE ADOLPHE:  After my producer, opera was produced.  ‘Cause I didn’t look.  I had never heard of it.  I mentioned it to people, and oddly enough, most people that I mentioned it to, not only couldn’t think of an opera, they didn’t even know what I was talking about.  “Who’s Shabtai Zvi?” And then, my relatives, who didn’t understand what I did, since I wasn’t on stage — they couldn’t understand that I wrote it, but that’s besides the point.  My relatives said, “You shouldn’t write an opera about Shabtai Zvi.  People shouldn’t know this story.  It’s a terrible thing, what happened.  Don’t tell this story.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Why is that?  I mean, I know, but tell the story.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=797.0,825.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRUCE ADOLPHE:  Well, because Shabtai Zvi proclaimed himself the Messiah in the 17th century.  And millions of people followed him from Amsterdam all the way down to Turkey.  He was arrested in Smyrna.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Educated people?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Educated people.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Businessmen.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  All sorts of people.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Right?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Businessmen sold, educated businessmen sold their holdings, to follow him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=825.0,842.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e That’s right.  They dropped everything they were doing.  They believed he was the Messiah, and the end of the world was coming. He was arrested by the Turks, and he converted because he was terrified that they would kill him.  There are various stories here, but the one that we refer to is that they said, “Either we can shoot a thousand arrows into you and you’ll live, thereby proving that you’re the Messiah” — which is a strange concept to begin with — “or, you convert.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSo, they gave him a very bad choice.  And who knows what even, well, any other Messiah would have done?  But he didn’t want to be a martyr, and was apparently terrified, and converted.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=842.0,876.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e So then, the amazing thing is that there are people who followed this, and to this day, there are people in Turkey who are Shabbatians by night.  Or are Shabbatians on the weekend, or whatever.  You know, and they, basically, during the day, they are Jews or they are Islam, and then they switch. And Mel actually flew to Smyrna and interviewed some of these people before he wrote the script.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=876.0,895.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  So, your parents’ reaction was a question of…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  No, not my parents.  My, this reaction was — it was cousins and uncles and aunts.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Other relatives.  Their reaction was based upon it is something that we shouldn’t draw attention to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=895.0,906.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRUCE ADOLPHE:  Don’t tell people what a terrible story this is.  That, first of all, someone should proclaim themselves the Messiah, that people should believe it, that he should convert — every aspect of it is a disgrace.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSo, after this was done, not having any idea that there was another opera, I stumbled upon an opera by Alexandre Tansman — can you believe that? —who is a very respectable composer. Pretty much forgotten by people who are not professional musicians, for some reason, but amongst professionals, he is very highly regarded, and there are some pieces that are still played.  And I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets rejuvenated at some point, or there’s a renaissance of interest in his music. His — you know, unfortunately, one of his most played pieces is a bassoon sonata.  Not unfortunately musically — it’s a wonderful piece— but that’s not going to make any interest mainstream for anybody.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=906.0,948.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRUCE ADOLPHE:  And this opera, I took a good look at it because I figured, now that I’ve written mine, there’s no harm in seeing what he did. Well, he used all the same characters, which doesn’t have to. Even though it’s a true story, you don’t have to have them all in the opera, which he did, and so did I.  The scenes were not constructed quite the same way at all. The interesting thing is, it doesn’t sound like Tansman.  He was very young, and it sounds kind of like Debussy.  It’s very impressionistic, in the loose sense of the word.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Well, he was in France.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=948.0,974.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yes, he was in France, and he was influenced at that time by French music, and there you have it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Between the two operas — I mean, they’re very different from each other.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Let’s put it that way.  I mean, one is a much smaller… Shabtai Zvi you have…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  A lot of people in it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  …a lot of people on the stage.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  I mean, you have…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=974.0,993.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, we wanted the feeling of the masses, right.  So we had a chorus. I would love for there to be a chorus in Mikhoels, but at that time, the Y chorus was not considered really ready to be on that stage with those singers.  So, at the end, where there is a choral movement, the entire end of Mikhoels is his funeral, and all of the singers discard their personas in the opera.  They are no longer the characters that they’ve been, and instead, they are the masses, faceless masses.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=993.0,1021.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Of course, there were only eight of them.  And even in the course of the opera, they, most of them, with the exception of Mikhoels, played two characters which actually works fine. Because that gives a sense, a kind of theatrical sense that I enjoyed, and occasionally, some irony, when someone who helped him comes back later as someone who hurts him — things like that. But at the end, they sang as a choral group, and it would have been actually quite interesting to have an actual chorus there.  But it sounded, in many ways, better, to have one in a part, so we let it go.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1021.0,1047.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e Then, that was not a consideration for me in The False Messiah, because this needed to have a sense that a lot of people were following Shabtai Zvi.  So, we decided to take the — I wrote some choral movements, and Amy Kaiser, who was a resident conductor there and was working with the chorus anyway, asked me if I could have the choral music ready as soon as possible, and she would work with them a lot.  And they were thrilled to do it.  And they ended up being excellent.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1047.0,1072.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eNEIL LEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Have either of these been performed since?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1072.0,1084.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRUCE ADOLPHE:  No.  There was some interest in Texas at one point, and I was told that they loved the music and the drama, but they felt that the story was so Jewish — this was The False Messiah — that they were a little worried about their audience.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  That’s in Houston?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Maganda Main?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Was Peterson there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1084.0,1100.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, he was interested in it.  And unfortunately, he couldn’t get anybody else interested in it, even though he was very much interested in it. There was interest in a small, Midwestern opera company only a year ago about Mikhoels.  And the reason they’re not going to do it is very 1990s.  It has nothing to do with the story or the music. They couldn’t believe that it was in my handwriting, when it could be computerized.  And I said, “Well, you know, in 1982, people didn’t put music on computers.  And it’s a very expensive process to have it copied.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1100.0,1132.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, the orchestra parts are all copied beautifully, but the singers have to read from a handwritten score.  And they did it, and it was fine.  But they just said, “Could you please put it on computer?” And I said, “Well, you’ll have to pay me for it,” because it’s, would take weeks and weeks and weeks and months to put it on computer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  But, of course this was professionally, a professional copyist?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yeah. But, you know, the score is in my handwriting.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Oh, it’s in your handwriting.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  But it’s a perfectly legible handwriting.  Nobody’s ever complained about it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1132.0,1153.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  Well, you’re talking to the wrong person, because I hate the computers, the look of computers.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Oh.  Well, you see, I now put music on computers.  But I can’t retroactively go back to 1982…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  No, I think it looks much more beautiful in ink.  Good handwriting.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1153.0,1163.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  Anyway, now tell me about a different kind of piece.  The Ladino songs that were…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  …we were talking about, and we have to, we’re probably going to record those very soon.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Well, the Ladino songs were the result of, at first, a commission that had nothing to do with whether they should be in any way Jewish. But the commission came from the, the horn player, David Jolly, who teamed up with Lucy Shelton, the soprano.  And they thought they would like to have a composer write something for them.  There isn’t a lot of music that pairs a horn with a soprano.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Why for the two of them?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1163.0,1194.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRUCE ADOLPHE:  Well, they wanted to do a recital together.  They just felt a musical affinity.  And there’s not very much repertoire.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Just, just because they’re friends or, as we would say in Yiddish [sounds like shtande velterein ]— out of nowhere?  I mean, that’s not a usual combination.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1194.0,1205.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e No, it isn’t.  And I, I don’t really know the reasons that they came up with doing the recital together, but except that they, his, maybe it’s partly because he’s such a wonderful horn player, whose way of playing is very vocal.  He sounds like a singer.  He can play very quietly. He has a beautiful vibrato in his playing. And he, I remember him saying to me once, “I wish I had played the violin.  I mean, I feel very limited by this repertoire.  And I’d like to play in combinations that are not typical, and have new pieces written for me.”  So, he’s done that a lot.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd he wanted to do something that showed how vocal he was.  I suppose that was the genesis of it, actually. So, he got together with Lucy.  And Lucy and David asked me to write something.  And they said, “You know, we’ve even thought about a third instrument, which would be the guitar.” So, I thought, well, you know, you’re really asking for a difficult thing here.  Guitar and horn — guitar being the quietest instrument in a concert stage; not electric guitar, obviously — an acoustic, folksy, classical guitar type situation which is very hard to hear by itself — with a French horn, which can play louder than practically any instrument, and a soprano.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1205.0,1270.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e So, I thought, this is very difficult, but I love Lucy’s singing, and I loved his horn playing.  And I said, “I’d love to consider this.” At the time, I was in the middle of writing The False Messiah.  So, the idea of it being Jewish or having a Jewish subject seemed natural, because, if I’m going to write two pieces at the same time, they maybe will play off each other.  And I also thought that a horn and a voice and a guitar suggests something folksy — I mean, people coming together for reasons other than a contract at a concert hall — it’s very folksy. And then I thought, well, how about being inspired by some of the great Jewish folk music?  And the world of Shabtai Zvi had, and the music that I wrote is influenced, to a certain extent, by Ladino music.  Most of the opera is not, but some of it is, especially as they move towards Turkey, and there’s a sense of what’s Moroccan and Spanish and Sephardic music.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1270.0,1321.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRUCE ADOLPHE: So at the time, I was also teaching at NYU, and I was not teaching music — I was teaching in the drama school, in a division of the acting department.  And one of my students turned out to be the daughter of Isabelle Gantz, who is a Sephardic, Sephardic singer.  And she gave me a recording of her group, Alhambra, and I basically took the texts and discarded the music.  And kept the influence, the sound of the music, but not any of the actual tunes or anything, because it…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  So the, this Ladino — what is it called?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1321.0,1353.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRUCE ADOLPHE:  Ladino Songs of Love and Suffering.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Love and Suffering.  So, they’re not based on any folk material, musically?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  They’re completely freely composed?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  The texts are Ladino poems?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1353.0,1365.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yes.  And the poems are to be sung in Ladino.  And the sound of the music has a, almost like a perspective, my own perspective on Ladino.  I didn’t make a study of it, but the music is — clearly, the modes were familiar to me, and the textures and the cantorial style of it was free, and the Eastern quality of it appealed to me and was something I’d grown up hearing.  So, I didn’t really have to make a study to do it. But I just decided to allow it to influence what I was doing, without too much conscious worrying about it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  But you didn’t grow up hearing Ladino?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Well, I did, a little bit.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  You did?  Where?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1365.0,1397.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e Mostly, I didn’t. Well, my parents were both Ashkenazic Jews, but they were professional folk dancers on the side.  They both had other careers.  My father taught English; my mother taught, for a while, biology, and then, physical education. But, during the summers, they were professional folk dancers, and my father was a great dancer.  He even had briefly danced with José Limon.  And therefore, he had a collection of folk music from all over the world. And I grew up hearing every kind — not just Jewish folk music, but everything — the Greek folk music, and Romanian folk music, and, and a lot of Russian folk music.  But there was a Ladino collection, or a Sephardic collection, and an Ashkenazic collection.  So not only did I grow up hearing it, but I grew up dancing to all of it.  So, I really felt it very strongly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1397.0,1440.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e And I let that easily inform what I was doing.  And I allowed, also, the virtuosity in the players do that. And Elliott Fiske played quite a few performances of it with them.  So, we had three amazing virtuosi. Probably the strangest thing about it was that David Jolly could play so quietly that, in one spot, I allowed the guitar to pluck a note, and, as it fades away, the horn emerges.  And for a horn player to be able to do that is really mind-boggling. And he told me that his students will be able to do that, because if a horn can do it, then people should learn to play that way.  So, I’m hoping that some other people can play that way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1440.0,1480.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  What about Out of the Whirlwind?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Out of the Whirlwind was commissioned by Kingsborough Community College for a Holocaust memorial concert.  I have to check the date.  May, 1984. And the Kingsborough Community College conductor, Simeon Loring, knew my music very well.  He had seen the operas.  And he said, “Can you do something that would be a memorial, something for the Holocaust memorial that we’re doing?”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eHe wanted it to be in Yiddish.  And he wanted it to be for his band, with singers.  He had a huge band.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  When you say “band,” do you mean…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1480.0,1519.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRUCE ADOLPHE:  Well, all winds, but 22 wind players.  His band was primarily amateur or student.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Your piece calls for a wind orchestra.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Am I correct?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1519.0,1531.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  Now, how do you, how would you differentiate a wind orchestra from a, what Interlocken always used to call a concert band?  What’s the difference?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Well, there are a couple of differences, aside from the sound of it. But one is that the, the one on a part situation.  There is no doubling.  There’s one piccolo, and the two flutes play separate parts, and the two oboes play separate parts, the English horn — all the way down.  Plus, there’s harp and double-bass. And there’s a feeling of it being an orchestra.  In fact, there’s a feeling of it being chamber music.  And even better might be to call it a wind ensemble, but it’s so large.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1531.0,1570.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  All right.  But that, it’s a larger than usual wind ensemble.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yes, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  And this piece, then, the poems are in Yiddish?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  The poems are in Yiddish.  And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Who are they by?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1570.0,1579.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRUCE ADOLPHE:  Well, each, the poems are all by survivors of the concentration camps, or victims — depending.  Some poems are by victims…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Well, survivors are victims, too.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yes, yes.  Well, people who either died there or survived. And some of the movements have melodies that were written by victims…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Really?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  …of the camps as well.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Where did you get those melodies?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1579.0,1598.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e This I need to check again.  But the Workmen’s Circle provided me with a lot of texts and melodies to choose from.  And that was Simeon’s idea. Simeon has, grew up in this culture, and knew Yiddish, spoke Yiddish fluently, and was very interested in having something done with any of these texts.  I think he gave me 30 or 40 texts to choose from. The first one is called Es Brendt — “It’s Burning.”  And I took some of the melody from the original, and all of the text.  And it’s about a town burning, obviously. And then there’s My Mama Hap Givold Zen Hof Mein Hazana, which, the song was actually written by Emil Gorovets.  And I took some of the melody, again.  I didn’t want to use all of it, because it was, felt a little constraining.  But I took the parts that haunted me, after I heard it, and all of the text. And in this one, I, I felt that, since she’s having a, almost a dream, that her mother could be at her wedding. But her mother was killed by Hitler and was thrown in a ditch. And she’s having this vision; and she keeps turning during her wedding, to the musicians, and says, “shpile klezmorim.” And she’s trying to get them to make her forget, which is tormenting her during her wedding.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1598.0,1670.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e So, in that, and the music goes back and forth between being quite horrific, and then dreamy, and then very true klezmer, which emerges and disappears as if in a dream.  And I took advantage of all the clarinet players, and made them all sort of in contrapuntal klezmer music there. And then, there’s a very terrifying one, which is simply called Treblinka.  In this one, I took the text and not the music and in fact I don’t think there was music. I took a text — it’s horrifying. It’s for tenor and the woman is a mezzo-soprano. And the male arias are all for tenor. And the refrain is kein Treblinka…not Treblinka. And the music gives the feeling of going on the train to a death camp and it’s absolutely terrifying, and it gives me chills to even do it; a very, very scary piece of music, which has in it a combination of militaristic sounds, expressionism, that I don’t usually have in my music — an almost Schoenbergian nightmare quality — but kept in very tight control, so that the, the, it doesn’t feel like a dream.  It definitely feels like a nightmare, and it ends very frighteningly and suddenly.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eThose are the ones I think are the most powerful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1670.0,1741.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e And there’s another one which is about a, a, what’s called a “Sabbath widow.”  And also one called Shtil di Nacht, which is an actual resistance song.  And I took the actual tune and the text, and I simply arranged that one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1741.0,1757.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  So that’s (sings) Shtil di nacht….  that, you used that for…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  All the way through.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  All the way through.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  I used the actual, I just took the melody and I, I arranged it so that there was this sense…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  That was the first resistance song, I think.  It’s the first, it’s about the blowing up a train…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  …in the middle of the night.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  That’s right.  And I simply gave the ensemble all of the suggestive qualities, the feeling of, inside this person, and the torment, and this fear.  And the anxiety is in the ensemble.  But I let the song speak on top of it, as if underneath it is what’s inside, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1757.0,1789.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  In the briefest response possible, because otherwise we — there is no answer.  Why did you, how did you come to choose a wind ensemble for this, as opposed to a symphony orchestra, as opposed to a string quartet?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Well, actually, that was simply, again, prescribed.  Because he had a wind ensemble, and he wanted the piece for the wind ensemble. I think it was an interesting and good, fortuitous choice, because it is out of the whirl-wind, and there is a tremendous feeling there…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  But in fact, it was, had somebody said, look…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Just do it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  …we have a…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1789.0,1816.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRUCE ADOLPHE:  An orchestra?  I would have done it for orchestra.  I would have done it for whatever…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Something people don’t often understand about composers — that it’s, it’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Well, we are practical.  And also, there’s inspiration, when someone — just in the act of someone asking you to do something — it’s always inspiring us. And, and he says, “I have this large wind ensemble,” and I think, “Oh, what an amazing idea!”, rather than think, “Could I please have some strings?”  You know, I didn’t worry about that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  It’s a challenge.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  It’s a challenge, but it was also an exciting one.  Yeah, absolutely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1816.0,1840.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  Now, the Rikudim…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Rikudim.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  …that we talked about.  Tell me about that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Well, that was a commission for flute and harp from Judith Mendenhall, who was giving a recital with Debra Hoffman; and, also at the 92nd Street Y. And what, what she said to me was, she had heard the operas.  In fact, she didn’t just hear them — she was the flutist in one of them.  And she said, “Could you give me something just for flute and harp that is in some way like your opera?”  I think she was talking about The False Messiah, if I remember. And I said, “Well, what do you mean?” And she said, “Well” — yeah, it must have been, because she said something with that Sephardic, Sephardic feeling. So I, not having a text, I didn’t want to go overboard with this, and I didn’t want to take music from the opera.  I called it Rikudim, which is simply “Dances.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd I felt that the flute and the harp, again, could easily lend themselves, like a guitar and horn, to something that does, is folksy and earthy and sensuous, and could have this spinning quality. And I decided to let it be influenced by Yemenite music, which I also knew very well, from growing up hearing all of this music.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1840.0,1905.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BRUCE ADOLPHE:\tAnd I — again, there are no melodies, or not even actual rhythms of this music, but just the sensuality, the aroma of it, the resonance of it.  A sense of, of what I was left with, having grown up dancing with it.  And you can tell, hearing it, that this is the case.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1905.0,1920.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  And this one other piece that we, that you jotted down.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Well, actually, there are a few other pieces.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  Well, a couple of them.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Very quickly, there’s a piece called Troika, that’s simply, it’s a short piece for clarinet, violin and cello that I wrote for Richard Stoltzman, Fred Sherry and Ida Kavafian. When Peter Serkin left Tashi, they said, “What are we going to do without Peter Serkin?”  So, they commissioned a few composers to write some pieces without piano.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1920.0,1941.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eNEIL LEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e But how did that piece pertain to Jewish experience?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1941.0,1957.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e Basically, it’s influenced by the klezmer clarinet solos.  And so it is very dancey, and it relates to — there’s a lot of wailing in the clarinet that — although it is, again, not quoting any folk music, the style of the clarinet playing that it requires comes out of klezmer. And right at the same time, I wrote a piece called Dream Dance, which also has a very strong dance influence and klezmer influence, influence, which is a violin, clarinet, cello and piano, which was commissioned by the Da Capo Chamber Players.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1957.0,1985.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e The only other thing that I would mention is that I, I had the tremendous honor and privilege of writing the music for the Holocaust Museum’s permanent film.  And when you go into the Holocaust Museum, there is a 13-minute film that plays every 15 minutes, which, astoundingly, seems to cover the history of anti-Semitism; which sounds like a ridiculous thing to accomplish in 15 minutes. And it doesn’t do that, but it gives a, an amazing overview, with tremendously intellectually cogent discussion, amazing images, artwork, photographs.  When I saw the thing, I just was — fell over. When I was first asked to do it, I thought, how can you do something like that in 15 minutes?  What are you trying to do?  I’d worked with the filmmaker before, which is how this came about. And when I saw it, I, I was so moved.  And in fact, I learned things that I didn’t know, in a 15-minute movie.  I think this is extraordinary. So, I knew it should be chamber music.  It’s a short film, and it’s an intimate film, and in a very intimate space.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=1985.0,2045.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e So, I used clarinet. I got David Shifrin — I decided to get great players — like Mark Kaplan to play the violin, and my wife, Marija Stroke, played the piano, and Kata Yarka played the cello.  And a cantor named Daniel Pincus sang. And, in this case, there is not stylistic consistency, exactly.  There is this trying to evoke the different eras that are evoked in the film.  Getting to something that, in some way, relates to my own music, when it hits the 20th century. And it was a, a very amazing project to work on, also.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=2045.0,2074.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  Connecting all of these things is obviously, a concern, an interest in the Jewish experience.  I mean, it isn’t that you’ve written one work — but you’ve been, you’ve written quite a few.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  As a composer who, in the general sphere.  I mean, not parochially…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:  No.  Not at all.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN:  …and not, not in any way limited by parochial considerations.  But you’re a composer, a highly recognized composer.  But how would you, in a nutshell, account for this propensity toward Judaic expression here, and whenever you get the opportunity, it seems?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=2074.0,2116.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I think that one of the most important things any creative person can do is know thyself.  I mean, you have to know who you are.  If you’re going to write something meaningful, you have to look inside and recognize what’s there, and deal with it. It doesn’t mean you have to deal with it all the time.  I mean, of course, lot of my music has nothing to do with Jewish experience. Except that that’s probably not true, in the sense that it’s by me.  And I’ve spent a lot of — I grew up listening to Jewish music.  My favorite composers when I, when I grew up included George Gershwin and Aaron Copland and Leonard Bernstein, as well as, of course, Stravinsky and Messiaen, and all sorts of people, who — and Messiaen, who wrote Catholic music. But the folk dancing that I grew up with, and I grew up doing, and I can still do, never leaves me.  So, the opportunity to write a piece specifically about Jewish experience is an opportunity to be direct about it. And which is a good feeling, and it’s, it’s a feeling of — whether it’s terrifying, like Treblinka, or a celebration, like something fun, like Troika — it’s a good feeling, to be who you are, and to enjoy it and understand that people can relate to it and you’re telling your own story.  I mean, what does a composer do but tell one’s own story?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=2116.0,2190.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eNEIL LEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Bruce, it’s been a pleasure talking to you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=2190.0,2212.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801/transcript/24259/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eBRUCE ADOLPHE:\u003c/strong\u003e Thanks. Thanks for inviting me.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39422/file/110801#t=2212.0,2224.0"}]}]}]}