{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/pg1hh6cw6b/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Starer, Robert"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Preferred Citation"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eStarer, Robert. 1999. Interview by Neil W. Levin. Milken Archive Oral History Project. 20 April.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Milken Family Foundation"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e© Milken Family Foundation. Unauthorized use is prohibited. For inquiries, please contact info@milkenarchive.org.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Levin, Neil W. (Interviewer)","Starer, Robert (Composer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1999-04-20"]}},{"label":{"en":["Coverage"]},"value":{"en":["Woodstock, NY (Place of Recording)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (Primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eOral history with composer Robert Starer, in which he talks about his musical background growing up in Austria and then immigrating to Jerusalem after German annexation. Also discussed is Starer's experience teaching at Juilliard and elsewhere in New York, and how he defines Jewish music. Some of his compositions are detailed at length, including Ariel: Visions of Isaiah (1959/1960), his choral music, and liturgical music that was commissioned by David Putterman and Max Helfman. \u003ca href=\"https://www.milkenarchive.org/artists/view/robert-starer\"\u003eView Artist Page from the Milken Archive\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["Beta SP"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Oral Histories (genre/form)","Jews — Music (Topical Term)","Park Avenue Synagogue (Person or Corporate Body)","Putterman, David (Person or Corporate Body)","Whitman, Walt, 1819-1892. (Person or Corporate Body)","Tal, Josef, 1910-2008 (Person or Corporate Body)","Wiener Sängerknaben (Person or Corporate Body)","Zemer Chai (Musical group) (Person or Corporate Body)","Tizmoret ha-Erets-Yiśreʼelit (Person or Corporate Body)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Keyword"]},"value":{"en":["A Little Elegy, Abraham Kaplan (b. 1931), Ariel: Visions of Isaiah (1960) (symphonic), Arnold Schoenberg (1874-1951), Darius Milhaud (1892-1974), David Putterman (1903-1979), folk music, Hebrew, Hugo Weisgall (1912-1997), improvisation, Itzhak Perlman (b. 1945), Jerusalem — Israel, Josef Tal (1910-2008), Juilliard, Kristallnacht, Max Helfman (1901-1963), Ödön Partos (1907-1977), opera, oud (instrument), Palestine Symphony Orchestra, piano, Proverbs for a Son (choral), radio, Solomon Rosowsky (1878-1962), Song of Solitude (chamber), synagogue, The Dybbuk (1960) (ballet), The Mystic Trumpeter, Three Israeli Sketches (chamber), Walt Whitman (1819-1892), Woodstock Youth Chorale, Vienna — Austria, Vienna Boys' Choir, Violin Concerto (symphonic), Zemer Chai"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eOral history with composer Robert Starer, in which he talks about his musical background growing up in Austria and then immigrating to Jerusalem after German annexation. Also discussed is Starer's experience teaching at Juilliard and elsewhere in New York, and how he defines Jewish music. Some of his compositions are detailed at length, including Ariel: Visions of Isaiah (1959/1960), his choral music, and liturgical music that was commissioned by David Putterman and Max Helfman. \u003ca href=\"https://www.milkenarchive.org/artists/view/robert-starer\"\u003eView Artist Page from the Milken Archive\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003e\u0026copy; Milken Family Foundation. Unauthorized use is prohibited. For inquiries, please contact info@milkenarchive.org.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/116/791/small/L3923_Robert_Starer_4X3.mp4_1623015696.jpg?1623001297","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - L3923_Robert_Starer_4X3.mp4"]},"duration":3723.456,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/116/791/small/L3923_Robert_Starer_4X3.mp4_1623015696.jpg?1623001297","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-milken.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/116/791/original/L3923_Robert_Starer_4X3.mp4?1623001279","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":3723.456,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Robert Starer [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  We want to talk a little bit at first about your early, early days.\n\nSTARER:  Yes.\n\nLEVIN:  Tell me where you were born, and bring me up to let’s say, the time you left Vienna.\n\nSTARER:  Well, I was born in Vienna.  And my parents were not wealthy, but well-to-do.  We had maids and I had a Hebrew teacher and gouvernant who taught me French.  And she discovered that I had absolute pitch when I was very young.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=15.0,42.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then I apparently — but you wouldn’t believe it today — I had a nice, high voice.  A soprano.  They wanted me to join the Sängerknaben — the Wiener Sängerknaben — but my mother did not permit it.  She wanted me to have an ordinary, normal childhood.  Because they toured all the time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=42.0,62.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I did start playing the piano very early.  And I began to sort of improvise.  Which was frowned upon, in Vienna.  The Viennese slang term for it was klimpen.\n\nAnd it wasn’t until I was in Jerusalem that I was told that this was not an unforgivable sin.  But I will come to that later.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=62.0,86.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I did have piano lessons, and I was admitted to the State Academy in Vienna at the age of 13.  I think I was one of their youngest students.  And that was in 1937.\n\nIn 1938, the Nazis came, took over.  And the head of the Jerusalem Conservatoire, Emile Hauser, who was the first violinist of the Budapest String Quartet, came to Vienna a few months after the German annexation.  And the British High Commissioner of Palestine, Sir Arthur Wauchope, was a lover of music.  So he gave Hauser 100 certificates of emigration to talented music students.  And I played for him, and I was lucky.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=86.0,139.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And my father, who was a wise man, said — I was only 14 years old.  “If you can get out, go.” So I went to Jerusalem at the age of fourteen. There I had, as one of my teachers, Josef Tal.  And Josef Tal thought I should not only study Schoenberg, Bartok and Stravinsky, but I should study Arabic music, or Middle Eastern music.  So I worked for two years with a Jew from Baghdad.  And I learned to play the oud.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=139.0,177.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He never notated music, and I wrote down some of his improvisations.  And one of the things that impressed me is that his improvisations always began slow and then got more excited. And some of this affected my own writing.  And because my pieces very rarely begin with a bang.  They always begin and then develop, and so forth.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=177.0,209.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I also became accompanist at the radio station, to make a living, when I was about 16.  And there I got, all kinds of folk singers came in with Yiddish and Ladino and, and they usually didn’t have piano accompaniments.  They brought dirty little pieces of music with the tune in it.  And then they said, play, take it down a step or two and accompany me.  And that was how I made my living for awhile.  That probably also had an influence me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=209.0,246.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Two of my other teachers in Jerusalem, Ödön Partos.  And in counterpoint I had Rosowsky, who taught Panayeff (?) counterpoint.  And if there was one mistake everywhere, anywhere, we had to do twenty four more exercises.\n\nLEVIN:  Rosowsky was Solomon Rosowsky?\n\nSTARER:  Yes.\n\nLEVIN:  Was that the son of…\n\nSTARER:  The Bible, the Bible cantillation man, yeah.\n\nSo these are some of my early influences in my life.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=246.0,279.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Now, let’s go back to, you left Vienna before Kristallnacht, or after?\n\nSTARER:  Before.\n\nLEVIN:  Before Kristallnacht.\n\nSTARER:  Yes.\n\nLEVIN:  Your parents stayed?\n\nSTARER:  My father was hidden by a non-Jewish neighbor during Kristallnacht.  And he later went to England, and he came to Palestine after the war.  My mother died in England during the war.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=279.0,303.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Do you remember, or did you have any contact with Jewish, with synagogue life, with musical life in…\n\nSTARER:  Oh, yes.\n\nLEVIN:  …in Vienna?\n\nSTARER:  Yes.  I have a very, very.\n\nFirst of all, my father was a Zionist.  So I learned Hebrew.  When I came to Israel, I could speak Hebrew.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=303.0,323.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Does the name Fuchsgeld mean anything to you?\n\nSTARER:  Fuchsgeld?  No.\n\nLEVIN:  Well, Kurt Fuchsgeld, in America, he took the name Frederick.  Kurt Frederick.  But his father was a, I think, the head of the, it would be like in the Federation’s youth division in America.  Something like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=323.0,349.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  No, I don’t think so.  No.\n\nLEVIN:  He was, Fuchsgeld himself was a choirmaster at Saaden Stadengasser.\n\nSTARER:  Oh, I see.  My father took me there.\n\nAnd I remember one particular evening there was a hazzan called Herschel der Meshuggener came to Vienna.\n\nLEVIN:  You don’t know his real name?\n\nSTARER:  No.  And he sort of combined opera with his hazzanut and left a very, very strong impression on me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=349.0,374.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Was this for a concert?  You mean, he came, he didn’t…\n\nSTARER:  He, he was not Viennese.\n\nLEVIN:  He just came for a, to give a…\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  …for a concert or a Shabbes?\n\nSTARER:  A Shabbes service, I think.\n\nLEVIN:  A service?  And that was his, he was known as Herschel the Meshuggener?\n\nSTARER:  That’s what my childhood memories are.  And this is a good many years ago.\n\nLEVIN:  Well, you couldn’t make that up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=374.0,390.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  No.  But this is….  And my father, who loved Italian opera, was so pleased that he mixed in sort of like Aida-like tunes with hazzanas.  And made a very strong impression on me.\n\nAnd I had a full bar mitzvah.  And we were not Orthodox, but Zionist.  I mean, my, my parents.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=390.0,413.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Was the bar mitzvah at Saaden Stadengasse, or…\n\nSTARER:  No, no.  It was where, in the area where we lived.\n\nLEVIN:  Do you remember which synagogue?\n\nSTARER:  No, but the rabbi was Meror, and I have a picture of him.\n\nLEVIN:  I would only know who the hazzan was.\n\nSTARER:  No.\n\nLEVIN:  I don’t know the rabbis so much.\n\nSTARER:  No, I don’t, no I don’t.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=413.0,426.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  But I do have a print-out sheet — that is, rather, a photocopy…\n\nSTARER:  Yes?\n\nLEVIN:  …of a sheet of all the Vienna synagogues in nineteen thirty something, the thirties.\n\nSTARER:  Yes.  We are talking about the service.  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=426.0,440.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And it gives you the name in each one, the address of the synagogue, and…\n\nSTARER:  Oh, really?  You have that?\n\nLEVIN:  …the second rabbi, the cantor, the second cantor, the telephone number, everything.  I’ll have to send you a copy and see what you can…\n\nSTARER:  I, I’d love to see that.  I’d be interested.\n\nI have a book about the Jews of Vienna, and there’s a picture of all the rabbis.  And I recognize the one who was the rabbi from my bar mitzvah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=440.0,460.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  There’s also a book on Vienna synagogues, you know.\n\nSTARER:  Yes.  I…\n\nLEVIN:  By somebody named Pierre Genet, who was an amateur, as I understand.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah?  Yeah?\n\nLEVIN:  And the district you lived in?\n\nSTARER:  Was the fifth.\n\nLEVIN:  That’s not Leopold.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=460.0,472.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  No, no.  No, my grandparents all lived in Leopoldstadt, but my parents were sort of emancipated enough to move out of Leopoldstadt.\n\nLEVIN:  But what does interest me is, do you recall at all whether, I mean, in Vienna at that time there were synagogues that were basically made up of Viennese Jews — that is to say, German-speaking Jews.\n\nSTARER:  Yes.\n\nLEVIN:  And there also Polish synagogues in Vienna.\n\nSTARER:  Well, at my parents’ house we were not allowed — and Yiddish wasn’t spoken, and Viennese slang was forbidden.  We had to speak Hochdeustch.\n\nLEVIN:  So then…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=472.0,507.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  So we were, as I said, not Orthodox, Zionist.  And that is, but we learned modern Hebrew.  Colloquial modern Hebrew as well, as Biblical. And that was a great asset to me, coming to Palestine in 1938.  Because I went to high school and all I had to learn was the new terms for mathematics and physics and chemistry.  And…\n\nLEVIN:  Where did you study Hebrew in Vienna?  I mean, all from a tutor?\n\nSTARER:  Private.\n\nLEVIN:  All private?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=507.0,539.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  Private tutor.  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  What, there wasn’t a Zionist school there in Vienna, like there was in Poland?\n\nSTARER:  Well, there was the Chajes Gymnasium.  But I went, I didn’t go to that.\n\nLEVIN:  What did you say?  Chajes?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=539.0,552.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  Chajes Gymnasium was the Jewish gymnasium in Vienna.  But I went to Elizabeth Gymnasium, near where we lived.  And only after Hitler were we sent to a Jewish gymnasium.  That’s a…\n\nLEVIN:  So you didn’t have any experience with any hazzanim in Vienna?  You don’t remember any…\n\nSTARER:  My father went to High Holy Days.  And what did the strongest impression is the one in the Seitenstettengasse\nLEVIN:  That one time?\n\nSTARER:  That one time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=552.0,579.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Otherwise, I mean, with the Sulzer tradition or so forth, in Vienna that…\n\nSTARER:  No, I, as a child, I was not, not into this.\n\nLEVIN:  Or choirs?  You didn’t sing in any…\n\nSTARER:  No.\n\nLEVIN:  …synagogue choirs or anything like that?\n\nSTARER:  No.  No.\n\nLEVIN:  Your musical education was also private, or…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=579.0,593.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  Until I got to the State Academy.  There I had, Ebenstein was my piano professor.  And the people often asked me, what about, Schoenberg’s name was not mentioned at the Academy in Vienna.  And of course not, Webern wasn’t even known.\n\nLEVIN:  Was that the period when Schoenberg was more associated with the Berlin…\n\nSTARER:  Well, he was in Berlin.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.\n\nSTARER:  But many people who don’t know that say he went to Vienna in the thirties and he must have…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=593.0,626.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Because Vienna seems to really claim everybody.  You know that to do with that famous saying that only the Austrians — I have to think about this now.  “Only the Austrians could make Hitler German and Beethoven Viennese.”\n\nSTARER:  Very good.\n\nLEVIN:  Good.\n\nSTARER:  Very good, yeah.  I’ve never heard that.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah?\n\nSTARER:  No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=626.0,646.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Did you know Chajes there at all?\n\nSTARER:  No.\n\nLEVIN:  People like that?\n\nSTARER:  No.\n\nLEVIN:  Some of the other people who were in Vienna?\n\nSTARER:  No.\n\nLEVIN:  There was a Professor Wolf.  A voice professor there.  That’s probably before that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=646.0,659.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  Before.  No, I mean, I was a child.  I mean, a 13-year-old.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.\n\nSTARER:  My father loved the opera.  And I went with him and…\n\nLEVIN:  I’m thinking of the people who went to Palestine.  There’s Stutchewsky.\n\nSTARER:  Stutchewsky I knew very well.\n\nLEVIN:  He came from Vienna, I think.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=659.0,676.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  Yeah.  Well, Jerusalem was quite a different world, for me.  And that’s where I spent my really formative years — 14 to 23.\n\nLEVIN:  Well, now, you were in Palestine until what year?  Till…\n\nSTARER:  Forty seven.\n\nLEVIN:  Till forty seven.\n\nSTARER:  I was in the British Royal Air Force during World War II, for three years.  But I didn’t do any fighting, because I was in North Africa, and I played on a German-caught piano.  And a senior officer heard it, and after that I spent my military service giving concerts.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=676.0,716.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  When did it develop that composition was your…\n\nSTARER:  Joseph Tal.  I wrote about that in my autobiography, which you may have me, to see later, called Continuo, A Life In Music. I was improvising, which in Vienna had been forbidden.  And Tal heard me, and he said, “What is this you are playing?”  Because I was his piano student.  And he says, “I don’t know.”\n\nLEVIN:  Because you came to Tal to study piano.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=716.0,743.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  To piano.  He was my piano teacher, yes.\n\nLEVIN:  Then, how did it get to…\n\nSTARER:  And then he heard me improvise, he said, and they asked me, “What is that you are playing?”\n\nI said, “I have no idea.  I was just fooling around.”\n\nSo he encouraged me to improvise.  But he also gave me a lecture about the difference between improvisation and composition.  And then he began to encourage me to write down my improvisations.  And that was how I really began.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=743.0,774.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And he also really introduced me — in Vienna I had not heard anything later than Bruckner.  And Tal introduced me to Schoenberg, Bartók, and Stravinsky, and what was then the new music of the thirties and forties.\n\nLEVIN:  The new music in Europe or in Palestine?\n\nSTARER:  No.  In Palestine was, I mean, very European.  Aside from that Arab, the Jew from Baghdad I worked with, all my other teachers were either German or Russian.\n\nLEVIN:  And you…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=774.0,806.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  Or Hungarian.  Partos was Hungarian.  But all European.  And we studied counterpoint and harmony and so forth.\n\nLEVIN:  Was Partos Hungarian or Romanian?\n\nSTARER:  Partos was Hungarian.\n\nLEVIN:  Hungarian.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  And you came, probably, into contact with, after a few more years, with many of the German musical refugees…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=806.0,822.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  Oh, yes.\n\nLEVIN:  …at that…\n\nSTARER:  And then the orchestra played my music and the radio played my music.  And…\n\nLEVIN:  And Alman.\n\nSTARER:  And then, in forty six — but I never finished my musical education.  So in 1947, the British government gave me a scholarship.  Because I had served in the Royal Air Force.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=822.0,845.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I was supposed to go to London, but there were no vacancies at the Royal Academy.  So I was given a choice between Paris and New York.  And I chose New York.  And the Juilliard gave me a full fellow, a full scholarship.\n\nAnd when I came to Juilliard, I took my first-year examinations, then the second-year examinations, then the third-year examinations, and then the fourth-year examinations.  So I graduated from Juilliard the day I entered.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=845.0,878.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So they put me into post-graduate.  And after one year, they offered me a teaching fellowship.  And after two years, a faculty appointment.\n\nAt that time, I went back to Israel and was desperately looking for a job.  There wasn’t one.  So I came back to Juilliard.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=878.0,899.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And in a way, that determined, made me decide that I was going to live in America from this point on.\n\nLEVIN:  Had Tal been able to find you a position in Israel, do you…\n\nSTARER:  Apparently not.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=899.0,913.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  …you would have considered….  But if he did, you might have stayed?\n\nSTARER:  I would have, I would have stayed.\n\nLEVIN:  At that time was what?  About 1951?\n\nSTARER:  Yes.  Exactly.  Fifty three was the last.  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  And what was musical life like there up until, let’s say, up until forty seven?  I mean…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=913.0,927.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  Well, their orchestra was wonderful.  It was then called the Palestine Orchestra.\n\nThe Radio Jerusalem had an orchestra in which I, I made my professional debut as a percussionist.  Because Tal said to me, “You will not make music.  You will not make a living with the music you write.”  And he says, “And you don’t like to practice at piano.  You need to learn an orchestral instrument.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=927.0,952.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So they looked at my teeth, and my teeth were bad.  So that ruled out all the woodwinds.  So he said, “What about percussion?”\n\nSo I made my professional debut — that means the first time I ever was paid for making music — for playing percussion in Ravel’s Bolero.  And I didn’t get to play the drums, but I got to play the six cymbal beats at the end in an outdoor concert.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=952.0,978.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then, Tal made me take up the harp as an instrument.  And I played harp in the Jerusalem Orchestra, and survived only because most of the conductors didn’t know whether I was really playing all the notes or not.  And I don’t usually speak about my brief harpist life. But then, I made my living also as an accompanist at, at the radio station.  Because it was clear Tal was right — that I couldn’t make enough money writing music.\n\nLEVIN:  You know, there are archives.  Have you ever investigated?  There are archives with — even though those were live, in those days, for the radio.  You didn’t record it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=978.0,1022.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  No, no, no.  It was live music.  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  It was live.  But there are recordings.  Because they did what, you know, what’s called air checks.\n\nSTARER:  Yes?\n\nLEVIN:  And I’ve been trying to get at those archives.  It’s conceivable it goes back all the way to what you’re talking about.\n\nSTARER:  Possibly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1022.0,1036.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  They have thousands and thousands of recordings of the live broadcasts.\n\nSTARER:  Really?  Of the Palestine Orchestra?\n\nLEVIN:  Yes.  At the broadcasting authority.\n\nSTARER:  Who has them?\n\nLEVIN:  In the Kol Yisrael.\n\nSTARER:  Kol Yisrael has them.\n\nLEVIN:  But they have no index to them.\n\nSTARER:  I see.\n\nLEVIN:  There is no organization.  And it’s crazy.  We offered to pay.  We offered, we said, we’ll — because it’s very…\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1036.0,1055.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  …we’ll pay somebody in Israel — a student, somebody, a graduate student — to go and do the….  But it’s a political thing, and they…\n\nSTARER:  I see.\n\nLEVIN:  …they won’t let anybody, and it could be that it’s what you’re talking about.\n\nSTARER:  Possibly.\n\nLEVIN:  Who were some of the singers?  Do you remember any of the singers?  Like Bracha Zefira?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1055.0,1068.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  Oh, yes.  I played with Bracha Zefira.  I did not live with her, as all the other composers did.  But I did play for her once or twice.  Oh, yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  And…\n\nSTARER:  And Shlomo Weissfish.  These are all — yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  I’m trying to think.  I mean, in those days, there were some great people who were combining…\n\nSTARER:  I was saying there was a lot, a lot of musical activities.  The Museum in Tel Aviv had concerts where I played.  And it was very active.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1068.0,1100.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  So what would you say, what was your first important piece, the first performance?  Was it in Israel, or…\n\nSTARER:  No.  It was with, with, with the Palestine Orchestra.  It was called Fantasy for Strings.  It had a solo trio, and George Singer conducted it.  I don’t know if his name has crept up.  And the premiere was in Tel Aviv.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1100.0,1130.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And this was in forty seven.  And there was a lot of Jewish-anti-British fighting going on.  And the day of the concert, the British declared a curfew.  And I couldn’t go to Tel Aviv to hear my own piece.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1130.0,1149.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But that was the first major performance I had.\n\nAnd the critic was Max Brod.  The friend of Kafka’s.  And I have a review from Max Brod which I cherish very much in which he says, “Mr. Starer creates from the depth of his soul.”  Max Brod.  I never met him, either.\n\nLEVIN:  And that’s…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1149.0,1175.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  And having had lots of bad reviews ever since, I sort of cherish one of the good ones.\n\nThat was my first major concert, I would say.\n\nThen, I toured with a violist named Zvi Zeitlin.  And I wrote a sonata for him and we played that in many, many…\n\nLEVIN:  This was in Palestine?\n\nSTARER:  Yes, yes.\n\nLEVIN:  Wasn’t he at Eastman?\n\nSTARER:  He was at Eastman, yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1175.0,1204.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  That’s about it, between…\n\nLEVIN:  And then, so now you started to teach at Juilliard.\n\nSTARER:  Then I came to America and Juilliard, yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  And how long did you teach there?\n\nSTARER:  I taught at Juilliard until seventy four.\n\nLEVIN:  That’s a long time.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1204.0,1219.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  So you were there during, you were there when I was there.\n\nSTARER:  Were you there?\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.  On piano.\n\nSTARER:  With whom did you study?\n\nLEVIN:  Marcus.\n\nSTARER:  Oh, did you really?\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.\n\nSTARER:  What years were you there?\n\nLEVIN:  I was there simultaneous to Columbia, so that was sixty four to sixty eight.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1219.0,1235.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  By that time I was already at Brooklyn College and kept only one class at Juilliard.\n\nLEVIN:  Oh yeah, because I remember…\n\nSTARER:  I joined Brooklyn College in sixty three. Sixty four I was in Europe.  And I kept one class at Juilliard.  I don’t, I thought I would, but later, I dropped it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1235.0,1252.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  The other people there, I mean, Sessions was still teaching there.\n\nSTARER:  Oh, yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  And Weisgall?\n\nSTARER:  Oh, yes.  Weisgall and I were, knew each other rather well.\n\nLEVIN:  Of course…\n\nSTARER:  Now, Weisgall also left Juilliard.\n\nLEVIN:  He left.\n\nSTARER:  And, you see…\n\nLEVIN:  Right.\n\nSTARER:  …the City University was frankly a much better employer…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1252.0,1268.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Well, of course.\n\nSTARER:  …than Juilliard.\n\nLEVIN:  And security and all that.\n\nSTARER:  Security and pension and…\n\nLEVIN:  Sure.\n\nSTARER:  …everything.  Juilliard had nothing.\n\nLEVIN:  Had nothing.  No, it was…\n\nSTARER:  You taught, you taught, you taught, and then, then you went home.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.\n\nSTARER:  Juilliard was important for people who needed private students.  Because many people, when they needed a teacher, called Juilliard.  And while Juilliard paid badly, you could, did earn much more in private lessons.  But for somebody like me it made more sense to teach at the City.\n\nLEVIN:  Giannini was there…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1268.0,1298.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  Oh, yes.\n\nLEVIN:  …he’s not, he was already dead by, I think, sixty four.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah, but he was there when I was, in my early years, yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  And Persichetti, of course.\n\nSTARER:  Oh, yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  The whole time.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1298.0,1312.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  He and I used to drink, have a drink after teaching sometimes, in the late afternoon.  He was, well, he was a nice man.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah, very nice.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  And then Diamond didn’t come till later, or was he…\n\nSTARER:  Diamond came much later.\n\nLEVIN:  He came much later.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.\n\nSTARER:  But Weisgall was there.  He also left and went to Queens College.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1312.0,1327.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Yeah.  Well, I remember one, there was one evening of two one-act operas of the faculty, one Weisgall and one Sessions.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.  And that was some time in the mid-’60s — ’65, ’66, something like this.  Did…\n\nSTARER:  But my Jewishness and my touch with Israel got me, first of all, Martha Graham got interested.  When she did her Samson, she asked for me as a composer.  And when Herbert Ross did The Dybbuk with Nora Kaye, he asked me to write the music for it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1327.0,1364.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Now, tell me about The Dybbuk briefly.  Because we have the score for that.  I’ve looked at the score.\n\nSTARER:  You have?\n\nLEVIN:  Yep.\n\nSTARER:  It was not a success in Berlin.  But Nora Kaye was wonderful in it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1364.0,1381.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  This music is for, what is it?  Music for the, a band, or…\n\nSTARER:  I later made a suite out of it, which has been played.  Sergio Commisiona did it in Baltimore and a few other people did.  But it was an evening-length.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1381.0,1400.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Herbert Ross had heard my Ariel.  And liked it.  And he later got me to write that music for a Broadway show for it.\n\nAnd once, I met him on 57th Street and he said, “Don’t you want to write movies for me?”\n\nAnd I said, “No.”\n\nAnd I must also tell you that when I graduated from Juilliard in 1949, NBC offered me a job to become a staff writer for their background music, and I declined that also.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1400.0,1433.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I thought I would talk a little bit about works of a Jewish…\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.  I want to…\n\nSTARER:  …character.\n\nLEVIN:  …I wanted to start with The Dybbuk.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  That, so the origin of that was for as a ballet?\n\nSTARER:  Yes.\n\nLEVIN:  As a commission?\n\nSTARER:  It was a commissioned ballet.  It was called Ballet of Two Worlds.  It was a mixture of Americans and Europeans.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1433.0,1454.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was financially, it went bankrupt or something of that kind.  The, the sets fell apart.  On the stage.\n\nLEVIN:  How did you come upon The Dybbuk as a…\n\nSTARER:  He, Herbert chose it.\n\nLEVIN:  I see.\n\nSTARER:  As a composer, you don’t choose subject.  And when Martha wanted to do Samson — Martha Graham, I am speaking about.  And when we first met she said to me, “This will be my first ballet about a male figure.  And I won’t be in it.”  And I wrote my music, and then she became Delilah and she was all over it, of course.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1454.0,1493.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But as a composer you don’t, I mean, opera is a different story.  But that, you don’t choose the subject.\n\nAnna Sokolow, Anna Sokolow, I did an Esther for her.  For CBS.\n\nLEVIN:  Esther?\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.  For CBS Television.\n\nLEVIN:  That was a live broadcast?\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.  In those days, there was a woman called Pamela Ilott who did religious Sunday morning broadcasts.  The program was called Lamp Unto My Feet.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.\n\nSTARER:  And I did an Anna Sokolow Esther for that.\n\nLEVIN:  It was ABC, I think, wasn’t it?\n\nSTARER:  No.  CBS.\n\nLEVIN:  CBS.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1493.0,1528.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  And — but to come back to The Dybbuk.  He chose The Dybbuk.  And Nora Kaye was wonderful.\n\nLEVIN:  Now, up to that time you hadn’t written any work of Jewish character…\n\nSTARER:  Oh, yes.\n\nLEVIN:  …had you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1528.0,1544.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  When I was a student at Juilliard, I wrote Kohelet.  Ecclesiastes.  And everybody said, “At your age, you should write Shir hashirim — you should write The Song of Songs.  What?  At 27, you are interested in vanity, the vanity?”\n\nIt was a very difficult work.  It had very few performances.\n\nAnd the next choral work I wrote was Ariel.  In fifty nine.\n\nLEVIN:  We’ll talk about Ariel.  The Kohelet is a choral work.\n\nSTARER:  It’s a choral work.  It’s had very few performances.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1544.0,1572.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  How long is it?\n\nSTARER:  It’s enormously difficult.\n\nLEVIN:  It is.\n\nSTARER:  About half an hour.  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  It’s very difficult.\n\nSTARER:  It needs a good professional chorus.\n\nLEVIN:  Was through Ariel.  So, I mean, for a long time, I associated the name…\n\nSTARER:  Well, that still gets done.  It was done…\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1572.0,1586.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  …in Canada again last year.  That seems to have a life.\n\nLEVIN:  Would you say that that’s one of your best-known, maybe your best-known piece?\n\nSTARER:  Perhaps.\n\nLEVIN:  I would, I think…\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  …if I had to…\n\nSTARER:  It was also sung by many non-Jewish choruses.  And it’s had a long life.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1586.0,1602.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Now, Ariel, I forget if it’s called Ariel or The Vision of Ariel.\n\nSTARER:  No, it’s called Ariel: Visions of Isaiah.\n\nLEVIN:  Visions of Isaiah, that’s right.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.  Dates from fifty nine.\n\nLEVIN:  Now, that’s for chorus?\n\nSTARER:  And soloists.\n\nLEVIN:  And soloists.\n\nSTARER:  The recording is very good.  It has Roberta Peters sings the soprano.  It’s still available.\n\nLEVIN:  And orchestra?\n\nSTARER:  Hmmm-mmm.  Abraham Kaplan conducts it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1602.0,1621.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  That’s a full orchestra?\n\nSTARER:  Oh, yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  Double-wind or more?\n\nSTARER:  Double-wind.  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  Um…\n\nSTARER:  It’s on the CRI label.  American Masters, whatever the…\n\nLEVIN:  Right, right.\n\nSTARER:  …series is called.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1621.0,1634.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  No, I have it.  Yeah.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  How did you come to do that piece?\n\nSTARER:  Harold Aks commissioned it for the Inter-Racial Fellowship Chorus.  That was a chorus of 200 voices, most of — they didn’t audition and they didn’t have to read music.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1634.0,1651.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I wrote a piece in which the choral parts are really relatively simple.  And whatever drama or dissonance I needed was in the orchestra.\n\nAnd that may have something to do with the work’s success.  Because difficult choral pieces don’t make it, so to speak.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1651.0,1670.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  And then I have the Mizmor l’David, which somebody from Milken called me about.\n\nLEVIN:  That’s what I want to talk to you about.\n\nSTARER:  And then I have the relatively easy ones.\n\nLEVIN:  Now, tell me about those pieces.  In the first place, how did…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1670.0,1684.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  They were commissioned by the Hebrew Art School, for the tenth anniversary.  And they were first performed by a National Jewish Chorale.  Which was Matthew Lazar, Jacobson and a woman whose name doesn’t come to me anymore.\n\nLEVIN:  From Washington?\n\nSTARER:  From Washington.\n\nLEVIN:  And I can’t think of her name, either.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1684.0,1702.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  So that each movement is dedicated to one of them.  And two of them are quite easy to sing, and do very well, in terms of…\n\nLEVIN:  She has the, there’s the chorus is called Zemer Chai.\n\nSTARER:  Zemer Chai, that’s right.\n\nLEVIN:  Which is actually, it’s really…\n\nSTARER:  Do they still exist?\n\nLEVIN:  Yes.  As a matter of fact…\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  …surprisingly, as far as I’m concerned, it’s far superior to the Boston Zamir or the…\n\nSTARER:  Really?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1702.0,1726.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Yeah.  I’m not sure she knows exactly….  She kind of doesn’t have a handle on, she doesn’t know as much about Judaic music or…\n\nSTARER:  I see.\n\nLEVIN:  …as they do at all.  But the chorus is actually better.  For one thing, they sing everything from memory.\n\nSTARER:  They do?\n\nLEVIN:  I mean, they don’t sing oratorios with symphony orchestra in Hebrew.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah, yeah, yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  They never, but when they give a concert, everything is from memory.  Which I, as a conductor, appreciate.  Because there’s nothing like that for choral-choral music.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  That it be from memory.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1726.0,1750.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  But that is what I have done lately, quite a bit of which is Hebrew and English.\n\nLEVIN:  Now, this piece is, so it’s four-part?\n\nSTARER:  It’s four-part, but the opening one is really two-part, and that’s the one that everybody sings.\n\nLEVIN:  But is the rest of it four-part?\n\nSTARER:  It’s four-part, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1750.0,1765.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And do we have it?  Do we have the whole…\n\nSTARER:  No, no.  It has never been recorded.\n\nLEVIN:  Now, with regard to the Mizmorim, is it?\n\nSTARER:  Mizmor l’David.\n\nLEVIN:  Mizmor l’David.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1765.0,1776.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  What are the texts?  Are they psalm texts?\n\nSTARER:  All psalm texts, yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  And the accompaniment?\n\nSTARER:  Violin, cello and harp.\n\nLEVIN:  Now, you started to tell me, the first one is only two-part.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  The two, S-S, men and women, or…\n\nSTARER:  Men.  No.  Either, anything you want.  High and low.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1776.0,1793.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  But after that, does it ever get four-part?\n\nSTARER:  Yes.\n\nLEVIN:  I’ll tell you why I’m asking you in a moment.  But…\n\nSTARER:  All the others are four parts.  One is in English.\n\nLEVIN:  The trouble is that as a sample, I took a look only at the first one.  Or somebody showed me only the first one.\n\nSTARER:  I see.  So you thought it was…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1793.0,1807.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  I saw that it was only two-part.  And I’ll tell you why it’s important.  Because we’re going to be doing a recording with the Vienna Choir Boys at the Sängerknaben. The Sängerknaben , of course, is either two-part, it’s, you know, treble voices.\n\nSTARER:  Treble voices.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1807.0,1824.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  However, there is also the Chorus Viennensis.  And most people don’t even know about it in America.\n\nSTARER:  No, I don’t.\n\nLEVIN:  And I have to confess I didn’t know about it until recently, either.  The Chorus Viennensis is the alumni…\n\nSTARER:  Of the…\n\nLEVIN:  …of the Sängerknaben up to age 60.\n\nSTARER:  How nice.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1824.0,1843.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  It’s a big chorus of T-T-B-B.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  And there is a wonderful CD of them that I have.  I should make some copies.  I mean, it’s a commercial CD, but you can’t buy it here so easily.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.  I see.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1843.0,1856.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Of the Schubert, of the Mona Chor and the brass.  You know all the Schubert.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  And it’s a fantastic chorus.\n\nSTARER:  Really?\n\nLEVIN:  So I made the following proposition to them.  I said, look — let’s make two CDs.  Let’s make one CD with the Sängerknaben. You know, start with the Sängerknaben piece. And that we do another CD where we do part male choir things.  I haven’t yet figured what, because they’re not going to, they’re not going to be able to do hazzanut.\n\nSTARER:  No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1856.0,1885.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  You could never get the flavor and the style, unless they let me conduct it, and they’re not going to do that.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  And but the other thing was how about some S-A-T-B, combining the Chorus Viennensis and the Sängerknaben?  So I thought this might be…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1885.0,1902.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  The, the, the fourth one is a Hallelujah.  That would sound very nice.\n\nLEVIN:  Okay.\n\nSTARER:  Zamir sings that too, by the way, if you, if you want to do — I don’t know what your terms are with Zamir.\n\nLEVIN:  It’s fine, but they’re not, I mean…\n\nSTARER:  They are a little pop, now, I think.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1902.0,1917.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  They’re not so great.  And when you’re talking about, you’re talking Boston, or…\n\nSTARER:  Boston, yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  It’s okay, but when you’re talking about the Vienna Chorus…\n\nSTARER:  Let’s do that, yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  …and Zamir, it’s like talking about, you know…\n\nSTARER:  The, the four pieces, they’re totally separate, by the way.  They are not, they’re not a set.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1917.0,1933.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  But we could do them as a….  See, I think it would be very interesting, because of the connection to Tovian.\n\nSTARER:  Yes.\n\nLEVIN:  And…\n\nSTARER:  But I have two pieces for, for children’s chorus.\n\nLEVIN:  What are the…\n\nSTARER:  Both by Transcontinental.  One I can give you, because it has just come out.  The other one is Hine Ma tov.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1933.0,1952.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  I have the Hine Ma tov.\n\nSTARER:  Oh, you have that.  Right.\n\nLEVIN:  I have the Hine Ma tov.  The other one…\n\nSTARER:  The other one is v’ahavta.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.\n\nSTARER:  And that is my attitude of first in Hebrew, then in English.  And in both of them I included women. It is Shevet achim v’achayot gam yachad.  And the same I did in v’ahavta.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1952.0,1976.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Both they’re, they were written for Rodeph Shalom in New York.  Cantor Biran.  And he said, “Don’t exclude half of mankind.”  So women are in it.  Now, there may be an objection.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1976.0,1991.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  What?  You mean singing?\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.  No, but I mean, I changed the text.\n\nLEVIN:  You can do what you want.  I mean, it’s, you could write a new text.  I mean, it’s fine.\n\nSTARER:  And the English is also my translation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=1991.0,2005.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Anyhow, nowadays, you know what they say there?  I don’t know about…\n\nSTARER:  But I would be personally touched if the Vienna Sängerknaben …\n\nLEVIN:  They don’t say Elohei Avraham, elohei Yitzhak, elohei Yaakov.  They say, elohei Avraham, elohei Yitzhak v’Yaakov, v’elohei Sarah, elohei Rivka. I mean, it’s silly.\nSTARER:  I know.  I know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2005.0,2023.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  But the thing is that I’m looking for a piece that would be the best piece for the combination.  And…\n\nSTARER:  Then, the fourth one.  The, the Hallelujah.  The Thanksgiving.\n\nLEVIN:  The Mizmor, yeah.  What other choral works do you have that might…\n\nSTARER: I have one called Proverbs for a Son.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2023.0,2043.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  S-A-T-B?\n\nSTARER:  S-A-T-B.\n\nLEVIN:  In what language?\n\nSTARER:  English, with a few Hebrew words in it.  All from the Book of Proverbs.  \n\nLEVIN:  Do you have anything that’s all in Hebrew?  For Vienna?\n\nSTARER:  For the, for the big chorus?\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.\n\nSTARER:  How good are they?\n\nLEVIN:  Very good.\n\nSTARER:  I’ll let them look at Kohelet.  If they want to do, to try that.\n\nLEVIN:  Is…\n\nSTARER:  It can be done.\n\nLEVIN:  Well, is Kohelet divisible into sections?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2043.0,2071.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  It’s in six movements.\n\nLEVIN:  And the whole thing takes half an hour?\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  But does it make sense to do one or two movements?\n\nSTARER:  Yes.\n\nLEVIN:  Show me Kohelet.  This might be, just then we’ll let them choose.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  They have a new conductor now.  And by the way, do you know who the conductor is of the Säengerknaben?\n\nSTARER:  No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2071.0,2088.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  It’s very funny.  Because they had a woman.  Believe it or not.  The first time in the history that they…\n\nSTARER:  Oh, I’m sure.\n\nLEVIN:  …a woman even set foot anywhere in the complex of buildings.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah?\n\nLEVIN:  And they fired her right away because there was too much flack from the old guard.\n\nSTARER:  Oh.  I see.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2088.0,2104.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And this got a tremendous big debate in the, and they had bad publicity for them.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  Because, you know, the Vienna Philharmonic, to this day…\n\nSTARER:  I know.  I know that.\n\nLEVIN:  And that’s all the guy could think to write about.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  So they engaged, while I was there, just that week, they engaged Ballach.  Now, Ballach is also — do you know who I’m talking?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2104.0,2125.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  I’ve heard the name.\n\nLEVIN:  He is the chorus master at Bayreuth.\n\nSTARER:  Oh, really?\n\nLEVIN:  And he’s going to do Jewish music.\n\nSTARER:  That’s wonderful.\n\nLEVIN:  He’s about 70.\n\nSTARER:  Oh, really?\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.  And they just….  But because the question even came up whether we shouldn’t say, how about the Bayreuth Festival Men’s Chorus doing something here?  And I don’t know.  I think it’s a little bit much.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2125.0,2153.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  But now the thing is, somebody asked me about Ballach.  And they said, a non-Jew.  They said, look.  Are you sure that this is going to be okay?  Because there is a film.  And they showed me the film of him shaking hands with Hitler, when he was about six years old.  And because he was a, because he was at, at Strauss’ home.\n\nSTARER:  I see.\n\nLEVIN:  But of course, that’s…\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  Now, the thing is Kohelet, I think, might be…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2153.0,2178.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  Some, some of it, yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  What about synagogue music?\n\nSTARER:  Well, I have a service.\n\nLEVIN:  That’s what I wanted to know.\n\nSTARER:  Which Transcontinental has.\n\nLEVIN:  It’s…\n\nSTARER:  It was written for Putterman way back, a long time ago.\n\nLEVIN:  Do you remember what year?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2178.0,2196.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  No.  I could look it up.  And that was near the fifties.\n\nLEVIN:  I mean, roughly.\n\nSTARER:  In the fifties.\n\nLEVIN:  The fifties.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.  And I had then the idea that I wanted at least four movements for congregational singing.  So they are in unison.\n\nLEVIN:  Of just those four prayers?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2196.0,2211.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  Those four.  And they’re, and Transcontinental sells them separately as sheet music.  But there’s a, there’s a nice Hashkiveinu in there which could be done.\n\nI would say let them show you the whole, the service.  It’s not a complete service.\n\nLEVIN:  It doesn’t matter.\n\nSTARER:  Because I, I had the notion then of combining congregations.  I, in, had the music distributed to the…\n\nLEVIN:  Out to the congregation.\n\nSTARER:  …to the congregation.  But it didn’t work.  I mean…\n\nLEVIN:  Because they can’t read music.\n\nSTARER:  I don’t know.  The, it didn’t, it didn’t work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2211.0,2248.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But Transcontinental sells it as separate pieces.  So it’s not a service, really.\n\nLEVIN:  So I have to ask for Hashkiveinu, or for…\n\nSTARER:  I will later show you the score.  And then choose.  There are a few pure Hebrew.\n\nLEVIN:  But that was one of the, that was one of their annual new music…\n\nSTARER:  Yes.\n\nLEVIN:  …services.\n\nSTARER:  Yes.\n\nLEVIN:  So Putterman sang it.\n\nSTARER:  Putterman sang it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2248.0,2269.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  The range is sort of nishta her, nishta hayn.\n\nSTARER:  Well, not higher than G, I think.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.\n\nSTARER:  G was his highest note.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.  On a good day.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  You sort of need a baritone or a tenor.  Sort of in between, most of…\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  …almost all the commissions for Putterman.  And I never know who, even the best intentions, I mean, I never know who to invite.  Because a real tenor doesn’t want to do a lot of these.  And yet it’s, it’s kind of a nice lyric baritone.  And most of the, whether David Diamond or any of those commissions — Gideon or them, you know.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2269.0,2301.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Very few of them exploit either range.  Because he was…\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.  Yeah.  But yet, he commissioned all these pieces.\n\nLEVIN:  Oh, he did a phenomenal thing.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  I mean, he left two great legacies.  This was one, although I’m sorry to say this is gone now, you know.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  They’re not even doing the new music service anymore.\n\nSTARER:  They’re not.  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2301.0,2318.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  It was a completely, completely gone.  And the other legacy, of course, was building the school.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  The cantorial school.  Which was, without Putterman, there would be no school.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  Putterman did it single-handedly.  Whatever they…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2318.0,2335.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  So you’re using Abe Kaplan.  I think that’s nice.\n\nLEVIN:  A few movements of his.  You know the piece that he wrote for Dayton, Ohio, for that children’s choir?  It’s called Psalms of Abraham, he called it.  It’s also psalms in Hebrew.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  Three-part children.  Look.  It’s very simple.\n\nSTARER:  He’s, he’s sort of popular.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2335.0,2354.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  In fact, it’s very simple.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  Put it that way.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  It doesn’t modulate.\n\nSTARER:  I see.\n\nLEVIN:  It’s very, whatever it is, it is.  But it has, there are a couple of things that are, I wouldn’t do it if we didn’t have the Sängerknaben.\n\nSTARER:  I see.\n\nLEVIN:  But it’s right for them, because they’ll make something out of it.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2354.0,2376.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  You see.  And now, there is another piece.  That’s the only synagogue service that you wrote?\n\nSTARER:  Yes.\n\nLEVIN:  Okay.  There was a piece that we recorded, I think.\n\nSTARER:  Nishmat Adam.\n\nLEVIN:  There’s two.  That’s one.\n\nSTARER:  The, you recorded the orchestral version.  I have since made a chamber version.  Which has also been recorded.\n\nLEVIN:  Is Nishmat Adam strictly instrumental piece?\n\nSTARER:  No, no.  That is for soprano, baritone and narrator.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2376.0,2409.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  That’s the one that Nathan Lamm was narrating.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  But there’s another piece.  A much…\n\nSTARER:  Oh, A Little Elegy.\n\nLEVIN:  Yes.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah, that’s a nice piece.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.  I like that.  Tell me about that piece.\n\nSTARER:  Well, that gets played a great deal.\n\nLEVIN:  It does.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2409.0,2423.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  It exists in a version for violin, for clarinet, for viola.  It gets played at, by a lot of people.\n\nLEVIN:  And we recorded it.  I don’t remember viola or violin, actually.\n\nSTARER:  I think it’s violin, you recorded it.\n\nLEVIN:  I don’t remember.  And it’s a small orchestra, as I recall?\n\nSTARER:  Just strings.\n\nLEVIN:  It’s a string orchestra?\n\nSTARER:  Just strings, yeah.  No, that’s, that gets done a lot.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2423.0,2438.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Now, this is a pretty good recording.\n\nSTARER:  That was commissioned by the Children of Survivors of Holocaust for Giora Feidman.  Who played the premiere at Carnegie Hall.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2438.0,2453.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  With the string orchestra?\n\nSTARER:  With string orchestra.  And everybody else has played it since.  But I don’t know if he still exists or not.\n\nLEVIN:  Who?\n\nSTARER:  Feidman.\n\nLEVIN:  Of course he exists.\n\nSTARER:  He does?\n\nLEVIN:  He’s making fortunes of money.  But you know where?\n\nSTARER:  Where?\n\nLEVIN:  In Germany.\n\nSTARER:  In Germany, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2453.0,2469.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  In Germany today, in Berlin, if you announce in a paper a Jewish concert…\n\nSTARER:  It’s Feidman.\n\nLEVIN:  No.  In the first place, it’s likely to be Feidman.  But in the second place, you could announce a concert of five cantors and choir of hazzanas concert in it, you will sell 2,000 seats in three days, and there won’t be Jews in the audience.  Maybe…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2469.0,2489.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  Really?  What is that?  How do you explain it?\n\nLEVIN:  There’s a fascination with that.  I’m not sure I like it, because it’s a little bit macabre.  It’s a little bit…\n\nSTARER:  I think so.\n\nLEVIN:  It’s a little bit, I mean, the people who go are well-intentioned.  I mean, they’re fascinated with this, with Jewish culture.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  There are klezmer bands who aren’t Jews…\n\nSTARER:  Really?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2489.0,2506.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  …all over Germany.  There’s a guy named Manfred Lemm singing, who is Polish.  Singing Yiddish song recitals all over.  There is nobody else to do it.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  But in any case, there…\n\nSTARER:  I have a tape of Feidman playing the Carnegie…\n\nLEVIN:  You do?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2506.0,2521.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  Yeah.  But we couldn’t use that.\n\nLEVIN:  No.  He’d never…\n\nSTARER:  I don’t know.  Unless you, I have a, it’s simple cassette tape of the Carnegie Hall performance.\n\nLEVIN:  No, he wouldn’t care.  But the sonic quality wouldn’t be…\n\nSTARER:  No.\n\nLEVIN:  The Elegy, though, I think works very well on violin.\n\nSTARER:  Oh, yes.  And it’s a nice recording.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2521.0,2536.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  This is a very good recording.\n\nSTARER:  Very good recording.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.  Who conducted?  I don’t remember.\n\nSTARER:  I don’t remember.  I wasn’t there.  I mean, that was just a…\n\nLEVIN:  Oh, you weren’t there?\n\nSTARER:  No.  No.\n\nLEVIN:  What do you have in the works?  What are you working on now?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2536.0,2548.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  I’m, at the moment, I’ve finished a piece for flute, violin, viola and cello for Paula Robison.  And then I have a commission for a piece for Carillon.\n\nLEVIN:  For who?\n\nSTARER:  Bells.  It was played, I wrote a short piece which was played at the inauguration of Governor Pataki.  So they love me.  So they have now commissioned me to write a, another piece for him.\n\nLEVIN:  For who?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2548.0,2577.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  The Albany.  The Carillon of Albany.\n\nLEVIN:  Oh, the, I see.  And it…\n\nSTARER:  And I am going to do it.  Since you asked me.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.\n\nSTARER:  But the flute piece is more substantial.\n\nLEVIN:  Any choral works coming up?\n\nSTARER:  I did a one for, for New England.  For Joshua Jacobson’s non-Jewish.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2577.0,2599.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Well, the Northeastern.\n\nSTARER:  Northeastern…\n\nLEVIN:  Northeastern University.\n\nSTARER:  …and they combined with the New England Conservatory.  And the Song of Joys text by Whitman.\n\nLEVIN:  Hmmm-mmm.\n\nSTARER:  But you should look into the Proverbs for a Son.\n\nLEVIN:  Yes.  The Proverbs for a Son…\n\nSTARER:  And…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2599.0,2614.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  …is that Transcontinental, or no?  Proverbs.  Who published it?\n\nSTARER:  Yes.  It’s Transcontinental.\n\nLEVIN:  It is Transcontinental?\n\nSTARER:  Transcontinental.  And that calls for oboe, guitar and bass.\n\nLEVIN:  String bass?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2614.0,2627.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  Yeah.  It was commissioned by the 92nd Street Y in New York.  For their chorus.  Amy Kaiser.\n\nLEVIN:  What happened to her?  She went to…\n\nSTARER:  She went to St. Louis, in Missouri.  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  Where?  To the university?\n\nSTARER:  To the orchestra there, I think.\n\nLEVIN:  Orchestra?\n\nSTARER:  I don’t know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2627.0,2642.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Not the symphony, no.\n\nSTARER:  I have not heard from her.\n\nLEVIN:  Well, I know she’s not with the symphony chorus.  But…\n\nSTARER:  And but you could try that with a goyish chorus if you wanted to.\n\nLEVIN:  Well, I think we should show it to the Sängerknaben.  I think the whole idea will be very interesting.  To do a couple of composers who came from Vienna.  It’s a connection there, in the first place.  And they’re not requiring it.  I’m saying that it would be interesting.\n\nSTARER:  Why don’t we do that with the Viennese Chorus?  The full-sized chorus.  Oh, they are all men.\n\nLEVIN:  That’s what I mean.  No, we have three possibilities.  You have…\n\nSTARER:  You could combine the boys and the men.\n\nLEVIN:  Yes.  Right.\n\nSTARER:  Look at The Proverbs.\n\nLEVIN:  I’m going to look at it.\n\nSTARER:  It is recorded, by the way.\n\nLEVIN:  In the first place, if they do — it is recorded?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2642.0,2682.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  It’s recorded by a Boston chorus on a Transcontinental recording.\n\nLEVIN:  A Transcontinental recording?\n\nSTARER:  Hmmm-hmmm.  I have one copy of it.  I’ll show it to you.  Together with a, with a chamber version of Nishmat Adam.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2682.0,2696.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  But it probably needs to be recorded again.\n\nSTARER:  The New England Conservatory of Music, one of those choruses.\n\nLEVIN:  Well, I’ll have to take a look and see.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  If it’s…\n\nSTARER:  But look at the music.  It’s better.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.  Because that would be an interesting thing.  If we do that, then we’ll be able to get a broadcast in Vienna too, you see.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2696.0,2712.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  Because I would be very much interested in that.\n\nLEVIN:  And that’s how we’ll work it.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  I could think of, I’m trying to think of which composers came from Vienna to become American composers.\n\nSTARER:  A man named Zeisl did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2712.0,2726.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Zeisl.  We’re going to have, we have his…\n\nSTARER:  I’m sure, he’s on the CD with my trio from the Emberg Trio.\n\nLEVIN:  We’re going to do his Requiem Ebraico.  Schoenberg.\n\nSTARER:  Oh, that’s right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2726.0,2741.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  We’re not going to do that with the Sängerknaben.\n\nSTARER:  No.\n\nLEVIN:  But there are people like Julius Chajes, for example.\n\nSTARER:  Yes.\n\nLEVIN:  I’m trying to think who else.  I know Chajes is.  Well, we’re recording some things of Chajes’.\n\nSTARER:  Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2741.0,2755.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  His Adarim.  With tenor and orchestra.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  And some of his synagogue music.\n\nSTARER:  Tell me, how near completion are you?  Or is this going to go on and on and on?\n\nLEVIN:  No, no.  It can’t go on and on and on.\n\n STARER:  In five years ago we were…\n\nLEVIN:  Oh, no, no, no.\n\nSTARER:  2000 is the target.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2755.0,2772.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  The target today is the beginning of the year 2001.\n\nSTARER:  Oh, it is?\n\nLEVIN:  That’s the target date.  For the first CD to be able to come out.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  But then they will come out, they probably won’t come out all the same time.  They’ll probably come out…\n\nSTARER:  Yeah, yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  …one a month, or…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2772.0,2789.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  But this Viennese project interests me greatly.\n\nLEVIN:  Have you ever been asked to write anything for hazzanut, for a cantor?\n\nSTARER:  Not since Putterman.\n\nLEVIN:  Since Putterman, yeah.\n\nSTARER:  I wrote another thing for Putterman, and I wrote something for Helfman.\n\nLEVIN:  Tell me about that.  You knew Helfman?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2789.0,2806.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  Well, I knew him.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah?\n\nSTARER:  But I don’t think I even kept the music.  This dates from the early ‘50s.\n\nLEVIN:  What was it?\n\nSTARER:  Bamidbar — something to do with the desert.\n\nLEVIN:  You knew Helfman in the New York period.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  Before he went to California.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2806.0,2820.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  Yeah.  And I wrote another piece for Putterman. There is another Hebrew piece of mine, which I also wrote for Putterman.  And I will later give you the title, which escapes me at the moment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2820.0,2836.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was published by Mercury Music there.  And it’s still in print, even, with Theodore Presser.  A short piece.\n\nLEVIN:  That could be very useful.\n\nSTARER:  Which I wrote for Putterman.\n\nSTARER:  Lately I have been writing English. Whitman.\n\nLEVIN:  Well, there is nothing wrong with Whitman.\nSTARER:  No I came to him late in life but I love him.\nLEVIN:  Our friend Bob Strassberg, you know, in Los Angeles is deeply involved with Whitman.  I mean, he was, he wrote…\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2836.0,2879.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  You know, you know about all his work, with the Whitman texts and all.  I don’t know whatever became of it, but…\n\nSTARER:  Somebody is writing a book now about all the settings of Whitman that have been done.  And it’s a long list.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2879.0,2893.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  A long, very long list.  Many European composers — English composers — have set Whitman.\n\nLEVIN:  The funny thing is that he’s one of the only American poets known in England.  I, you know, just, I suppose, as we know, our schoolchildren, even the most educated of them, really don’t know anything about English history.  The English, the best.  It’s even more so.  I mean, I’m talking about people in the finest schools.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2893.0,2921.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I remember having this discussion with someone who, and she had been very highly educated.  With the white-glove routine in school and everything.  And they know nothing about American poets.\n\nSTARER:  But they know Whitman.\n\nLEVIN:  Except Whitman.\n\nSTARER:  Emily Dickinson, maybe.\n\nLEVIN:  No.\n\nSTARER:  No?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2921.0,2936.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  No, no.\n\nSTARER:  No?\n\nLEVIN:  No, that’s way too….  No, they never heard of any of the others.  None of any era.  The only other one — this is going to be funny — is Robert Frost.  And there’s only one reason, and she admitted to me why.  Because of the Kennedy inauguration.\n\nSTARER:  I see.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2936.0,2950.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  If it hadn’t been for that, they never would have…\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  And so then everyone was running out and buying all the books.  But Whitman is…\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  I wonder if it’s been set in Hebrew.\n\nSTARER:  When I get a commission for a choral work, I often look at Whitman first.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.\n\nSTARER:  I wrote The Mystic Trumpeter.  I’ve done quite a bit of Whitman.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2950.0,2967.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  I’m looking at the piano there and I see the V’ahavta.\n\nSTARER:  It just came out.  I will give you a copy.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.\n\nSTARER:  That is written for S-A, I mean.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.\n\nSTARER:  That’s…\n\nLEVIN:  Well, my general feeling is, it might be, you know, the Sängerknaben, it’s a shame to, I mean, to do things with them that are too simple, because we have other choruses to…\n\nSTARER:  That may be too simple.  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2967.0,2985.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  That might be for, in London, we have some recordings with some children’s choruses.  Very fine ones.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  But even one of the Jewish children’s choruses.\n\nSTARER:  The man on the telephone, who — what is his name?  He…\n\nLEVIN:  Richard.  Lee.\n\nSTARER:  Lee, Lee.  He told me that you have a chorus in Mississippi that you like.\n\nLEVIN:  Yes.  We’re going there in a few days.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=2985.0,3001.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  That is Sam Adler’s…\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.\n\nSTARER:  …former student.\n\nLEVIN:  Right, right.  Oh, when we have… we’re probably doing something next year.  I don’t know what date, though.  It just came up in the last few days.  Possibly in Texas.\n\nSTARER:  No, I’m more interested in Vienna than in Texas.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3001.0,3016.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  The Vienna….  No, for this, it’s the perfect…\n\nSTARER:  There is, an American children’s chorus sang Hine Ma Tov in Vienna just last month.\n\nLEVIN:  From where?\n\nSTARER:  From here.\n\nLEVIN:  But I mean…\n\nSTARER:  The Woodstock Youth Chorale.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah?\n\nSTARER:  Has just been to Austria.\n\nLEVIN:  How good are they?\n\nSTARER:  I cannot, I haven’t heard them.  Do you mean you might record them?\n\nLEVIN:  No…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3016.0,3033.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  No, no.  I think…\n\nLEVIN:  I mean, they were, I would have heard of them if they were really good.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.  No.  Of them.\n\nLEVIN:  I don’t know of any American children’s choir that’s really first-rate.\n\nSTARER:  There’s a Nunez.  A, a man who, who wrote me who has the New York City Children’s Chorus.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3033.0,3051.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  I haven’t heard it.  But my…\n\nSTARER:  No.\n\nLEVIN:  …gut feeling is that, if you understand what I mean, it’s more sociological than musical.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  The only serious chorus in the United States of which I know…\n\nSTARER:  Yes.\n\nLEVIN:  …is the American Boy Choir in Princeton.\n\nSTARER:  Uh-huh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3051.0,3066.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  That’s the only one.  Whereas, you know, in London, you have two huge ones that are boys and girls.  To say nothing of all the boy choirs.  They’re really, really serious choruses.  I mean, they were, you know, Benjamin Britten wrote for them all the time.\n\nLEVIN:  Let’s talk just for a moment about your own feelings about what Judaic related music means, or how it’s connected, or, I mean, what prompts one to, even to broach the subject.  And I’ll tell you why.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3066.0,3093.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I’ll preface it with this.  It’s because this is — I’m not making this up.  It just so happens that I have a Viennese, I have an old friend in Vienna, who is not — I mean, who is Viennese, and is a musician, a professional pianist.  And not Jewish at all.  And she took a look at this whole thing and said to me, “What?  I don’t understand.  You want to separate out Jews, Jewish things from, you’re going to do the opposite of what you always claimed, you know….  What is the point of all of this?  Music is international.  There should be no separation.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3093.0,3126.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, how would you respond to — this was sitting in the lobby of a hotel in Vienna.\n\nSTARER:  All right.  When I went with Judy Eisenstein to Jerusalem in ’78 on the World Congress of Jewish Music, I was asked to define it.  I had later written it in an article which they printed in the Reconstructionist magazine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3126.0,3148.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I said there are four elements.  Heredity, upbringing, language and intent.\n\nHeredity we can do nothing about.\n\nUpbringing — obviously, what we heard in our childhood, in our youth.  That is where mine comes from, clearly.  Both the Herschel the Meshuggener and what I heard in Jerusalem.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3148.0,3174.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, language is very important.  If you take the, for instance, words like Adam, Michael.  In Hebrew, it’s Adam, Mikhael.  In English, it’s Adam and Michael.  English is a syncopated language.  Hebrew is not.  Hebrew tends to go towards the last syllable in words.  That affects the music.  So that is language.  I write different music when I write and set Hebrew texts to when I set English texts.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3174.0,3214.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the last one is the most difficult to define.  And that is intent.\n\nWhen I wrote The Dybbuk, for instance, I tried to have a klezmer kind of sound, with a clarinet and a bass and a drum — the instruments.  And I like to invent melodic — I never use any folk tunes.  I’ll tell you in a moment who taught me not to do that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3214.0,3238.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Darius Milhaud.  When I was a student in Tanglewood — that’s a slight digression, but it’s worth telling.  The two teachers were Copeland and Milhaud.  And I was a follower of them.  The foreigners studied with Copeland and the Americans with Milhaud.\n\nWell, I went to see Milhaud several times, because I liked him.  He also wrote in ink, by the way, which impressed me no end.  And he said, “I always invent my own folk tunes.  I never use any.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3238.0,3270.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That impressed me terribly.  I was very young.  And I have kept it.  I have always invented my folk tunes, when I needed to.\n\nSo, intent.  When you write The Dybbuk, you’re looking for the hazzanishe element in the melodies.  And when you set Walt Whitman, you don’t.  So there is a difference.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3270.0,3292.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And when I wrote my violin concerto for Itzhak Perlman, I looked for things that he would immediately understand.  Because it is Mideastern.  In the second movement, there is the Oye!  Oye!  So the glissandi from above and below into one note.  Which is very much what the, all Arabic musicians do on the oud.  And he immediately understood that.  I didn’t have to explain it to him.  So in the program notes, I wrote that I tried to draw on that which is our heritage in common.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3292.0,3329.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I think intent is the most, in my case, because I have written which, works which — for instance, my K’li zemer, the clarinet piece, which I also wrote for Feidman which others have recorded.  I really try to draw on that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3329.0,3349.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And when I set Walt Whitman or — I have just been commissioned, for your information, to write a piece for the West Point band, to celebrate their bicentennial.  And I have written of fantasy of When Johnny Comes Marching Home.  Obviously, this has nothing to do with Hebrew or anything of the kind.  And there I did use an existing tune, because West Point had, I wanted a, a song that is associated with the military.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3349.0,3383.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So to summarize it, the subject matter on hand determines, in my case, whether I bring to the foreground my Jewish inheritance or my universal one — let’s call it that.\n\nLEVIN:  I think that’s a very good answer.  Mainly, because I agree with you.  Yeah.  I always, I think intent is the….  well…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3383.0,3409.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  I repeat.  You can’t do anything about heredity.\n\nLEVIN:  No, but well, you can.  You can rebel against it.\n\nSTARER:  You can rebel against it, too.  Yes.\n\nLEVIN:  That’s the point, you can.  Or you can ignore it or try to ignore it.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  And therefore not write it in.  And I agree about language very much.\n\nSo you seem to be saying — I mean, I would, I mean, I hear you saying that then you would raise serious questions about the idea of Italian opera, of Verdi in English done.  If you say you write different music for Hebrew as opposed to English.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3409.0,3430.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  Well, I think in, opera should be sung in the language it was written.  I don’t…\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.  So that’s what I…\n\nSTARER:  Oh, yeah.  Absolutely.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.  I mean, naturally, different things are going to come to mind, exceptions.  But the thing…\n\nSTARER:  I mean, Hungarian is also a syncopated language.  Right?  And Italian is not.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3430.0,3446.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But go on.  \n\nLEVIN:  No, I mean, my general question always is, and you answered it with this one where language.  I think that anything that is legitimately in Hebrew — when I say “legitimately,” I am not talking about writing a commercial rock song.\n\nSTARER:  No, I, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3446.0,3465.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Because that’s something else.  Even by an Israeli.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  But poetry.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  A Walt Whitman type poet, if there were, who was Israeli, to me, it already is Judaic.  Because he was a Jewish language…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3465.0,3479.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  Well, yeah.  I wrote in my, in my Jerusalem days, I wrote Leah Goldberg songs.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.\n\nSTARER:  And that was Hebrew.\n\nLEVIN:  I would consider that Jewish music.\n\nSTARER:  Elef Kinot Areivim (?).  I remember it, yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  The violin concerto…\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  …is called, I mean, is that Judaically related…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3479.0,3495.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  Yes.\n\nLEVIN:  …in the way that you say that, it’s, or more than that?\n\nSTARER:  The way, that and the piece I wrote for Steven Honigsberg — maybe that would interest you.\n\nLEVIN:  The cellist.\n\nSTARER:  It’s called Song of Solitude.  He recorded it at the — no, he premiered it at the Holocaust Museum in Washington.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3495.0,3514.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Oh, I know.  I think…\n\nSTARER:  He plays it beautifully.  It’s about nine minutes long.  And I would love for him to record it.\n\nLEVIN:  What’s it called?\n\nSTARER:  Song of Solitude.\n\nLEVIN:  And what’s it?  For cello?\n\nSTARER:  That’s for cello and accompaniment.\n\nLEVIN:  Solo cello.  And Honigsberg plays it well?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3514.0,3533.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  Yeah.  And that has what I would call my instrumental Jewish.\n\nLEVIN:  Well, but you see, there, the intent, whether it does or not, the intent comes into play, doesn’t it?  You wrote it for…\n\nSTARER:  I knew it was to be premiered at the…\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.\n\nSTARER:  …Holocaust Museum.  But again, I didn’t use any folk tunes in it.\n\nLEVIN:  No, no.  You don’t have to use preexisting…\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  …materials.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  It could be a tone row.  It could be anything you want.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3533.0,3553.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  It’s not.  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  Intent.  I, that’s my general position.  The violin concerto, though.  Is that…\n\nSTARER:  It was written for Itzhak Perlmann.  And both his technical prowess…\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah?\n\nSTARER:  …his unbelievably sweet tone…\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.\n\nSTARER:  …and the fact that he’s Israeli.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3553.0,3568.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  But I mean, is there an attempt to be, to relate in some way or is it more directly?  I mean, Song of Solitude is direct.\n\nSTARER:  Yes.\n\nLEVIN:  Is there…\n\nSTARER:  Then, I have a piece, my little piano pieces, which are a played a lot, of Three Israeli Sketches.\n\nLEVIN:  Yeah.  No, but I want to clarify to myself, for a reason, the violin concerto.  It’s just called Violin Concerto?\n\nSTARER:  Just Violin Concerto.  Nothing else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3568.0,3589.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And it’s not — if you were writing program notes for it, if I, if I were to hear it in a concert, would it be described in relationship to Judaic music?  You could say that it qualifies as music of Jewish experience?  Or no?  Or is it international?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3589.0,3604.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  Of, Jewish experience, perhaps.  Yeah.  It’s like the…\n\nLEVIN:  Is this recorded?\n\nSTARER:  Yes.  We recorded it with the Boston Symphony.\n\nLEVIN:  Perlman recorded it.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.  It’s not longer available.  But he did record it with Seiji Ozowa.\n\nLEVIN:  You see, for example, let’s take the Castelnuovo-Tedesco violin concerto.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3604.0,3623.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  That is very specifically, he calls it, it’s three different, he called it The Prophets.\n\nSTARER:  Oh, I see.\n\nLEVIN:  It’s Biblical, you see.  And he is, his intent…\n\nSTARER:  Was there.\n\nLEVIN:  …is to be programmatic.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3623.0,3636.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  Well, my intent was to write something for Itzhak Perlman and our inheritance in common.  I can, I have a copy of it.  I can show it to you.\n\nLEVIN:  I’ll take a look at it.  That may be too international to qualify.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.\n\nLEVIN:  That would be the question, not the…\n\nSTARER:  It would also be expensive.\n\nLEVIN:  That wouldn’t be the issue.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3636.0,3651.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  That wouldn’t be the issue?\n\nLEVIN:  No.  The issue would be whether it — no, they don’t have to license it, but they usually do.\n\nSTARER:  I see.\n\nLEVIN:  Anybody, nobody is buying these things anymore.  They’re happy to license it, to get some income from it.\n\nSTARER:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3651.0,3664.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  The question I had really had to do with this idea of is there such a thing, I mean, is it a mistake to dilute the, any of the international character of music by referring to some of it as music of Jewish experience?\n\nSTARER:  I don’t know.  If I hear Khatchatourian, it sounds….  You know, I mean, it’s, it’s there.  You can deny it, but it, it’s there.  Just as it’s there in a face and in a mode of speaking.  Right?\n\nLEVIN:  Hmmm-mmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3664.0,3694.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791/transcript/29300/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STARER:  And I have no desire to deny it.  But I have lived both lives, as we mentioned.  I mean…\n\nLEVIN:  But there’s no conflict for you?\n\nSTARER:  No conflict for me at all.  When I write Whitman or when I set Hebrew.  But I write a different kind of music.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/43698/file/116791#t=3694.0,3723.456"}]}]}]}