{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/sn00z71q5z/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Stein, Leon"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","metadata":[],"provider":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/111/980/small/Stein.jpg?1621431012","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - L3951_Leon_Stein_4X3.mp4"]},"duration":6338.112,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/111/980/small/Stein.jpg?1621431012","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-milken.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/111/980/original/L3951_Leon_Stein_4X3.mp4?1619785141","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":6338.112,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Leon Stein interview [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Dr. Stein?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  About, I think at least 25 years…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …since I last saw you.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Till this morning.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And I think that was probably — well, that makes it 1972.  You were Chairman of the department at DePaul.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But before that, I remember you — I played Beethoven’s C-Minor under your baton, and…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Right.  I remember that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …that goes back to the Community Symphony Orchestra.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  That is correct.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So, you were a fixture in Chicago, before I was born.  Were you born in Chicago?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=15.0,51.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Yes.  I was born in Chicago.  September 18th, 1910, to be specific.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And you were just telling me how you got your scholarship for your studies in music.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  How did that happen?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=51.0,66.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I read an article in the paper about David Itkin bringing Sal Rachine (?) to the Drama Department, plus the move of the music department from the North Side to the Loop, at 64 East Slade Street, and that it would include a stage, and the facilities, and so on.  And that prompted a letter to Arthur Becker, the Dean of the School of Music.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eHe invited me to come down.  I showed him some works.  And the upshot of the matter is, I was given a full scholarship.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=66.0,102.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  You say some works.  Some of your own compositions?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, yes.  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Since you’re a Chicagoan, tell me about your early music studies in Chicago.  Who did you work with?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.  I studied with a Herbert Butler, a violinist, and a student, a student of, a, a fine violin teacher in Europe.  Yoachim — but I think it might have been Yoachim’s wife that he studied with.  I never got it clear.  And studied with him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=102.0,134.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e You grew up in what part of Chicago, in your childhood, and went through high school?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=134.0,153.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  All right.  We were born on the West Side.  My parents had come from Bratslav in the Ukraine.  And then, moved to the Northwest side.  And from that point on, we moved, and we lived on the Northwest Side and North Sides of Chicago.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Probably, Logan, Logan Square?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Well, eventually, to Logan Square, and the Northwest Side, earlier.  But eventually, in Logan Square.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=153.0,176.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e It was very interesting that when we were making our — Ann and I — were making our first trip to Europe, we had to establish the, we got the material for the passport.  And it turned out that her birthplace was four blocks away from where my birthplace was.  And when we got to Logan Square, this sort of parallel mobility that maybe they’d call it in sociology.  We lived just four blocks away, at that time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=176.0,208.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And your instrument as a child was piano, or violin?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Violin.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Violin.  So, basically, up until you started to compose, you were a violinist.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And did you work with anyone in Chicago at that time?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No.  But what was fortunate was that shortly after coming to DePaul, I got into the Civic Orchestra.  And studied with Eric Dumbacher, who took an interest in my work. And in one instance, for example — it was a string quartet — he stopped Mishim Ishikoff at the intermission, and showed him the work and said, “You ought to play this.”  Well, he didn’t, but eventually, the Chicago Symphony Quartet did.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd then, after being at Civic Orchestra, I took the examination with Felix Borofsky, and got a, a fellowship in conducting with Hal Zloty and Frederick Starr.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=208.0,264.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Now, Borofsky is a name I recall from that.  But where was he?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Who was that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Felix Borofsky.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, Felix Borofsky.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  He was the president of the Chicago Music College at that time.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd it was a very intensive course, and I really got a tremendous amount of good, working with most, mostly with Hal Zloty, but somewhat, but much less so, as far as time was concerned, with Frederick Starr.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=264.0,292.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN: And then, the pianist, piano teacher was a, a, gave us a course at reading scores at the piano, which was very helpful.  And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So, you grew up during the First World War in Chicago…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …and then during the ‘20s.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  An interesting musical kind of period in Chicago.  And that was before Ganz came to Chicago?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No, he was, he was in Chicago…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He was there already.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=292.0,324.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Yes.  He was there at the Chicago Musical College, and was not only the leading piano teacher, but also, guest conductor of, of the — principal conductor — of the St. Louis Symphony, I believe, at the time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Correct.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  And, and he was very, very active.  Both in composing and in playing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=324.0,346.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN: And, as a matter of fact, subsequently, when I established the composition seminars at DePaul, I was surprised to find that Rudolph had sent a composition of his in.  And which we put it on the program, of course.  And a very outspoken young lady said she didn’t like it very much, and she hoped he didn’t write much more music like that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, those were, I mean, I once asked him why he came to Chicago from — I guess he was in Berlin.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He was born in Switzerland, but he came from Berlin.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=346.0,380.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And he said, because it appeared at that time, which was, I guess, before World War I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …it seemed obvious to everybody that Chicago was going to be the musical center of America.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Not, nobody thought it would be New York.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  At that time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It was interesting.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I suppose, because of the opera and so forth, in Chicago….\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eYou grew up during the time of the, of Mary Garden’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, yes.  Sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=380.0,402.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  As a matter of fact, when Mary Garden was a head of the — I think Seda, Seda  Golub was called Stein — her, her accompanist and also, the director of the — what do you call it?  The stage business.  Was a very, very fine pianist, Rose Serin.  And I had the opportunity of working with her, playing through the whole violin and piano repertoire, since there was a lot of time during the Depression to do that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Tell me, just along with the musical aspects of Chicago at that time, when you were growing up, when — your earliest memories, what were the synagogue music situations like?  I mean, do you have any recollections from…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=402.0,454.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Yes, I have.  As a matter of fact, as a youngster, I used to sing a little, with a, in an Orthodox synagogue.  And it was a sort of a fly-by-night sort of thing.  You sang by ear.  And, but they had a very, very active liturgical activity.  And, at all levels.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And you sang in the choir?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  As a boy chorister.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  That’s correct.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Do you have any recollection of who the conductor was?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No, not at the time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Those days?  Or the cantors?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No.  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Did you sing with any cantors?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=454.0,492.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  No.  But then, of course, subsequently, in terms of working with liturgical choirs, I was an assistant conductor for the Anshe Emet’s services, where Irwin Jospey was the head of the service.  And then, subsequently, I did some work with Shaare Tikvah.  And then, eventually, became the music director of the Niles Township Jewish Congregation, with whom I was for seven or eight years.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Uh-huh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=492.0,526.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Yeah.  And both my boys were being bar mitzvahed on…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  In Niles Township.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  …under those auspices.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Because in the area that you’re talking about, let’s say, in Logan Square, there was a big synagogue there that had an active choir, and so forth.  Actually, it even functioned — I’m trying to remember who were some of the people involved.  There was a Weintraub.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah, that name is familiar.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Zev or Tzvi Weintraub.  Well, this is after the war.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But before then, you grew up in an area where this was, where there were a lot of famous cantors around, at that time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=526.0,568.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Yes.  Actually, I, I didn’t hear too many, then.  But it so happens that Ann and her family attended those services with many of the world-famous cantors at the time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, tell me how you got involved with DePaul.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  On the faculty.  And you were an alumnus of DePaul.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  That’s right.  Immediately, as soon as I got my bachelor’s degree, I was asked to join the faculty as a teacher of violin and theory.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNow, simultaneously, I began, really, an active conducting career, because I organized the DePaul Chamber Orchestra and worked there.  And eventually, got my master’s degree.  And then, finally, got the doctor’s degree.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=568.0,623.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e And the interesting thing, in retrospect, is that I didn’t request any of these positions, which, in retrospect, I find very interesting.  Because I was asked to be, in turn, the Chairman of the Department of Theory and Composition, and the Director of the Graduate Division, and finally, Dean.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd the reason, in retrospect, that it surprised that it happened that way, in that when the, the, when the president sent a notice around asking for recommendations for the Dean, I sent in two references.  Because the specific requirements they had, they wanted somebody younger than I was at the time.  And within two years, they didn’t find anybody satisfactory.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=623.0,678.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  One day, I got a call to come to President Kornu’s office.  And he spoke to me, and he said, “Leon, if you were Dean, what would you do?  What changes would you make?”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd we had a very interesting conversation.  And I left the room, and then, suddenly, like, you know, this business of, of, of a light bomb exploded, you know.  I’ve just been appointed Dean.  And it was that simple.  And that’s what happened.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And, of course, DePaul really, really mushroomed, during those years.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, yes, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And I remember myself watching it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, I can’t remember the name of who’s the Dean.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, the present Dean is Casey.  Don Casey.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Uh-huh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=678.0,730.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Fred Miller was the one who succeeded me.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd the thing is, as I say, that in retrospect, I’m surprised that I was taken without any, any extended interview, as such.  Except with the President.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBecause subsequently, the usual thing is, a candidate for Dean will appear before a student committee, a faculty committee, and so forth.  And it was really a rigorous interview.  And I was glad I was, I bypassed it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  George Flynn…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  He’s there now.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Is there now.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  He’s the head of the composition department.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He’s the head of the composition department.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I knew him briefly…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …at Columbia, when he was a student there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  There was a time, and I don’t — you’ll tell me when it was, when, in Chicago, they tried to found a cantorial school.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=730.0,780.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Oh, yeah.  What we had was a College of Jewish Studies.  And we established a sight-singing class, and they asked me to be head of this, which I headed for four years.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Do you remember how the, how it started?  I mean…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Hyman Resnick was the head of the general Music Department.  And he and some others approached me about, trying to attempt to become Chairman of what’s called the Institute of Music.  And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And when was that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  I’ll have to take a rough guess.  I think it was about 1960, perhaps.  Approximately.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.  It had to be earlier than that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  ’50, maybe?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Maybe ’50.  But it was post-War.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It was definitely after the war?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.  Definitely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=780.0,829.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The thing was, that because there was a tremendously destructive conflict between the College of Jewish Studies and another aspect of the college, finally, they came to the conclusion that we could not appear — we could not raise more than X amount of dollars — $4,000, $5,000.  So, it became, it became quite difficult to…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Was that a conflict with the Board of Jewish Education?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  That’s right.  Mmm-mmm.  It was a tremendous conflict.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=829.0,868.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  And which split the city in half.  The one roof being concerned with the leadership of the Reformed, and the other with the liturgical.  And it was quite a fractional division.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So your position with this…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  With the Institute of Jewish Music.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Institute.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And the purpose was to train cantors.  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  That was the essential path, purpose.  And Greenberg, Cantor Silverman, and some others.  And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You’re talking about Greenberg, Todros?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.  Todros.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Todros Greenberg.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And Moe, or Moses Silverman.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.  Silverman.  Mmm-hm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And these were the faculty people?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And who else was…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=868.0,911.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  And Silverman and Greenberg.  And those were the principal people, at the time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Let me throw out a couple of names.  See if any of these were — what about, there was a, was Jospey involved in that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Uh, uh, not directly.  Not directly, but we had him in one of the peripheral courses.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  There was somebody, a Cantor Giblichman.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Does that ring a bell?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  He was not on the faculty.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Joseph Giblichman?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No?  Did this have anything to do with the, there was a Chicago Cantorial Association, at one time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Hmmm-mmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Was it connected to that, in any way?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=911.0,949.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Just indirectly.  Just indirectly.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, are there any records, any documents pertaining to this school?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Paul Ramsey, Paul, Elstein…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Did you graduate — there were some students who were actually graduated?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  They got it through more and more advanced courses.  But, unfortunately, went out of existence before any certificate was awarded, as such.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd we did, we had some fine programs, you know.  For example, Eric Werner gave a course.  Not a course, but a lecture.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Lecture?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  And I got to be quite friendly with him.  Rudolph Ganz.  Sonya Chernova.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, wait.  Let’s go back to Ganz.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What did Ganz have to do with this?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=949.0,996.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Oh, he, he had a series of lectures.  And his wife, he told me his wife once said, she said, “Rudolph, do you know all of these topics that you have listed in such a variety?”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eHe said, “Don’t,” he said, “Don’t worry.  The topics are listed differently, but it’s the same talk.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But his, that was a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  It was a single part of a lecture series.  He was the….  And Sonya Chernova, with her operatic experience.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  To the best of your knowledge, was Ganz Jewish?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=996.0,1030.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  No.  No.  Not at all.  It’s because there is some, there is reference, I think, in one of the, in a history of Jewish music, or musicians.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, he, the thing is that he always, everybody always said no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, even Molly Margolis…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …who certainly should have known…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  Of course.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …said no.  He was Swiss.  But the reason I ask it is that I came across something that’s extraordinary.  He published an article on Yiddish theater, before he ever came to America.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=1030.0,1069.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Uh-huh.  I didn’t know that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And that’s just too unusual, for somebody.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And he’s listed as Sendry, Alfred Sendry.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.  Oh, yes.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So I wonder if, I ask everyone now from Chicago…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: …from those days, because every once in a while, somebody says, “Yeah, I always suspected that…”.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  He was not.  He was not.  I knew his nephew very well.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Felix.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  And not, not at all.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And what about — now Chernova, you studied with?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=1069.0,1095.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.  Sonya Chernova and, was a world-famous contralto, who lived in Chicago.  I had a rather interesting experience, which I will explain, in a moment.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eWhen I was drafted, was about to be drafted, I got a telephone call from a former student.  What’s his name?  Well, I’ll look into it in a moment.  And he said an opening had just developed at Great Lakes for the conductor of the band and participation in writing background music for it On Target and Michi Navy.  And they would very much like to have me at the station.  Great Lakes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=1095.0,1145.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e And he said, “How do you stand on the draft?”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eI said, “Well, I’m, I’m due to be drafted in about six months, as the order number.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eHe said, “Well, if you wish, I’ll arrange it for you to get what’s called an ‘authorized special induction.’  And be at the station on Plymouth Court.  And within a week, we’ll have you in, in the service.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd so, that’s what I did.  And I went to the Great Lakes recruiting station.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=1145.0,1177.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e And it happened at that time that practically everybody was going to another station.  A few were going to Great Lakes.  And so, I had my violin case with me, and they said, “Incidentally, he said, “tell everybody that you’re supposed to go to Great Lakes.  Otherwise, you’ll be shipped out elsewhere.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd I did.  As a matter of fact, I, at that time, was in good health.  So I qualified for submarine service.  But there I was — in a week I was at Great Lakes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=1177.0,1216.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e And going through the station, I was stopped by a commander, and he said, “Where are you going with that violin?”  He said, “You don’t want to drag that all over the station.  Come and place it in my office.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd it turned out, he was Sonya Chernova’s brother, the opera singer.  And it was a fortunate thing, because as it happened, because I was being used most in the Michi Navy Orchestra and beginning to write some programs — music for the On Target and Michi Navy, I actually never wore boots, as such — I was supposed to wear them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=1216.0,1259.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  And the time came for the completion of my, of my service — the boot training.  And I went, came home, saw Ann, came back.  And it happened that a, a tipsy service guy got the orders mixed up.  And I found, they found that I was supposed to go to one of the Eastern coasts — shipped out.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eWell, Rob Elstein was the head of the music department.  And it took him all of a day — a full day — to get the orders changed so that I would remain at Great Lakes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd fortunately, I was able to conduct the band, the orchestra, the, write the music for various of the shows.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd even Cecil B. DeMille came to direct one of them.  And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  At Great Lakes?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=1259.0,1324.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.  Great Lakes.  The program was called Bill Jones is Dead.  And I was assigned to do the background music for that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd it was a, a very well-written play — program.  And it happened that the, the subject was that they were raising and needing funds, and the by-line was, periodically through the text, Bill Jones was dead.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eWhat was interesting was, there were two things.  First of all, the, the direction — and the Hollywood business was everything that you read about.  That is, there was a prop man whose only job was to put a chair on back of Cecil B. DeMille.  And the, there were directors and sub-directors, and so on.  Which was rather interesting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=1324.0,1384.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Another thing that was of interest is, at a particular point, there was, one of the, one of the individuals — a soprano — who was supposed to reach a high note.  And what they had to do, actually, was displace another voice.  Because she didn’t quite make that high note. But it worked out all right.  I mean, eventually.  And it was fine.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So you spent the war years at…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  I was there for…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …you were with the Navy.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  I was there at Great Lakes for, oh, 22 months.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=1384.0,1421.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e And when I got there, because I’d had a degree, I had to fill out a form to apply for officer’s training.  And I thought, well, who wants to be an officer?  I’d rather stay doing what I’m doing.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSo I called Ann.  And she says, “Well, you have to make up your own mind.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSo I just simply tore the paper up.  I didn’t know if I’d be called, et cetera.  I wasn’t.  And so, I remained there for 22 months.  If it had been two more months, I would have been transferred out, because, after two years, they changed bases.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=1421.0,1458.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  And, and we had some very interesting people come through.  And — actors, and so on.  It was a very active group.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd, as a matter of fact, the, the chorus and the orchestra had a separate dormitory by themselves.  And we conducted some really fine programs that we set up.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Of course, there was no recordings of those things around.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  I don’t know if any were…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Or if they have any…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No, I don’t…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, I mean, the Naval base is still there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Fort Cherry isn’t, you know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No, I know that.  No, the base was there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=1458.0,1494.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  As a matter of fact, what we did, in writing the background music, we had numbers from one to 25 of, of neutral music, music that had a dramatic or climactic aspect, and so on.  And so, pretty soon, by the end of the 22 months, we had a, a whole library.  And so, instead of writing music and having the parts copied, we just would go for this, we’ll use 24, for this we’ll use 12, and so on.  And it was quite a library.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And then, after the war, you…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  I came back.  And then, subsequently, Wesley LaVida, who was the head of the composition department, went to California.  So he invited me to take his place.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Where?  At DePaul?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Mmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=1494.0,1558.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  As head of the composition department.  With the assumption, I understood that when he comes back, he’ll have his position.  Well, he didn’t come back, of course.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd the interesting thing is that before, before I got into the Navy, I got a call from Max Janowski, who was the director at KAM.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Before the war?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  Sure.  And he invited me to assume his position.  It was, again, with the firm understanding that when he comes back…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Where was he going?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  He was in the service.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Really?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  And — translation, or something.  Anyhow, so I was at KAM, KAM…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He had come, he had come from Shanghai or something.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=1558.0,1605.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Yes.  That’s right.  He and his mother.  Yeah.  His mother was active in the operatic activity, activity in Israel.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  And came here and became a, a well-known vocal teacher in the area.  And Max, of course, as we know, is one of the leading conductor — composers — of synagogal music.  And the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And so, he went into the service, and…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  And then, within a year, I was in the service.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And you were in the service as well.  Did you have much interaction with him, after that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=1605.0,1642.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Well, occasionally, occasionally.  But our contact as such was never as it was beforehand.  We were friendly, and so on.  But he was quite active.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So, I want to just come back to this, whenever it is that the school…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, the, yeah, the Institute of Music.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  Well, the Institute of Jewish Music, or…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Institute of Jewish Music, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Something like that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s confusing, because other people, too, tell me they don’t know if it was ’49, ’51.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No, uh…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What about Joshua Lind?  Wasn’t he involved in it, in some way?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Lind?  No.  We had — that’s the father of the Lind Brothers?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The father, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  And not directly.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And I know Silverman, but there was someone else, too.  But do you remember any of the people that came as students, even though they didn’t graduate?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=1642.0,1695.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Yeah.  We did have, we had several who, who then assumed cantorial…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  …posts in Chicago.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Was Brindell one of those?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  And — no, Harold Brindell was not.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I’m trying to think.  I can’t remember, either.  There were a couple…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  Or, or Brandhandler?  No.  Brandhandler…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=1695.0,1715.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Yes.  Brandhandler was in the class.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  [INAUDIBLE].\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-mmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He came from Norway, I think.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  I didn’t realize that, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  [INAUDIBLE].  And well, it wouldn’t have been people like Maurice Levy, or those people?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No, I don’t think so.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.  I don’t think so.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And then, it just — so it basically just lasted a few years?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  That’s right.  Because of, of this great schism in the College of Jewish Studies itself.  And eventually, it disappeared.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What about Max Sinzeimer?  Was he involved in that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=1715.0,1748.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Oh, yes.  Max — I was very good friends with him and his wife.  His wife was a violinist in one of the large orchestras in Germany.  And Max was at Anshe Emmet.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd he had had some conducting ambitions, but somehow, of course, it didn’t work out for him that way.  A very good musician.  And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What did he do in Chicago?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  He was at Anshe Emmet.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That’s it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  And then, I don’t know what happened subsequently to that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Was he involved in that school at all?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.  What about Rudolph Beck?  Remember?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=1748.0,1787.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Sure.  He was at Anshe Emmet also, and Rudolph did some copying for me.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd it was very interesting.  After his wife passed away, he wrote a series of piano works.  And quite a large number.  And then issued a community singing book which was very useful for organizations.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd I remember, he smoked while he copied.  And I remember that one word — time — that he smoked and the ash burned out in the middle of a half-note.  So, it was fortunate that it was not any destructive thing.  But I recall that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=1787.0,1836.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And you can always tell.  Even now, I can tell his handwriting, by looking at it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, yes.  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Beck copied for all the — I mean, Joshua Lind pieces, and all this.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  People like Tevele Cohen.  Do you remember Tevele Cohen?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.  Sure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Copied whatever they so called wrote...\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-mm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …and all this.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But I guess that school — I mean, then, by that time, those who wanted to, went to New York.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And that was — but it’s an interesting chapter.  I don’t know of any other city in the country that tried to start an actual school.  Where were the classes?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=1836.0,1867.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  The classes were at the College of Jewish Studies.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s still here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  And I conducted the sight-singing classes.  And we had some, mostly elementary theory classes.  And then, lectures, particularly the lectures by Cantor Greenberg and — which I thought were very valuable.  And Cantor Silverman, and so on.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, tell me about the origins of the various orchestras that, like the Community Symphony Orchestra, which, of course, I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But which was the first one?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=1867.0,1898.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e The Community Symphony was one of the earliest orchestras I conducted.  And it happened that a student of mine, Hillary Josephson, was the viola player.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd so, I was invited to come, and I guess they had one or two other conductors.  And anyhow, we got along very well.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd the object of, of the Community Symphony was a matter not only of the music activity, which was, of course, the essential thing.  But an attempt to make it an interracial orchestra.  And which was, again, unfortunately, a reflection of the sad situation where the Blacks simply did not have an opportunity to play in the orchestras.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=1898.0,1947.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN: As a matter of fact, Milton Preves had an orchestra in Oak Park, and he put a, a Black cellist in.  And they protested, and so on.  Fortunately, that blew over.  But…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That was extraordinary.  I remember that incident, because it was rather late.  That was in the ‘60s.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That was in the early ‘60s.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd we had some really fine presidents.  There’s Larry Jacks, the president.  There’s Sam Becker, who was very active.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=1947.0,1980.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Then he moved out here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  Who is that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Sam Becker.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh.  California?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I think years ago.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I think he retired.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, yeah, yeah.  He came to — that's right.  To Palm Springs, as a matter of fact.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, I mean…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.  Palm, Palm Springs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd so, they were very dedicated people.  And it — we had a very fine, I felt, a fine series of programs.  And we reached a, a level of competency which I was very glad to participate in.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Roughly when did that form?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=1980.0,2015.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Let me see.  It was, I was in the, let me see — I got into the Navy, and it was right after, right after the beginning of the end of the war.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So it was the late ‘40s?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  The late ‘40s.  And as a matter of fact, and the reason that I thought of it, there was a Richard Chivanki, a violinist, who conducted the Kenosha Symphony.  And he had a heart attack.  And he asked me to take a program over.  So I did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=2015.0,2053.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN: And incidentally, Percy Granger was the soloist.  And he did the Greig Piano Concerto.  And a very eccentric person, as you might know.  And, shortly after that, we engaged him to play with the Community Symphony Orchestra.  So this would be right after the armistice of World War II.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So then, and then throughout the ‘50s you gave your annual concerts.  You had a series, or…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes, we had a series.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Two or three a year?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Three or four a year.  And then, after the — well, the Community Symphony, then, there was — and I came to the City Symphony.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=2053.0,2099.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN: Now, the City Symphony was an organization sponsored by the Chicago Federation of Musicians.  And Thor Johnson was the first conductor.  And then, Paul Seserovitch (?), the second conductor.  And then, Harold Klass was the viola player.  And he invited me to come, and I stayed on.  I didn’t, you know…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  With the City Symphony.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  City, with the City Symphony.  And I conducted them for 20 years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=2099.0,2128.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e And we had, anywhere — I’ll tell you — to, depending on what trust fund cooperation, or who had cooperated with a trust fund, we had anywhere from three, to eight or nine concerts a year.  And with a good soloist.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e0And the members of the orchestra were of a very, very high caliber.  People from the Chicago Symphony, St. Louis Symphony, and other orchestras.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=2128.0,2157.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN: And I remember, there was [INAUDIBLE], was, often would come tanked up to rehearsal.  And he said, “Maestro,” he says, “you know, what my great ambition is?”  He says, “I want to be shot by a jealous husband.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBut, and…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, I look at, I mean, I think back of orchestras such as the Community Symphony, which you both founded, so you founded the orchestra.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.  Hmmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And it had its own independent board of directors?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So there was an independent, it wasn’t connected to any university?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No.  It was absolutely independent.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Then there was the North Side Symphony.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I don’t think that exists anymore, either.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.  Then there was the Businessmen’s Symphony.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That Herbert Zipper at one time conducted.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=2157.0,2213.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Yeah.  It was very interesting, but you might have seen a program, a television program, about him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I didn’t see it, but I know there’s a documentary.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  It was very, very good.  And, well, he was with the Businessmen’s Orchestra for awhile.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd I thought his, the really dramatic story of his background, from the concentration camps up to his final conducting, and so on.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But you just learned about that from this television show?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  From — that’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He never talked about that in Chicago?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  As far as I know, he tried…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …I don’t think he even let it be known that he was even Jewish.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No.  Yeah.  That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I don’t know why, except that he was in Winnetka.  I don’t know.  He only — but the, what would you say is the reason that those kinds of orchestras don’t exist anymore in — let’s take a community like Chicago?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=2213.0,2268.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e It’s difficult to say.  Because, first of all, the organizations don’t have the purpose that the Community Symphony had, as a driving impulse.  That is one of the reasons.  There are other reasons.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd, as a matter of fact, subsequently, when I was asked to take the DePaul Orchestra, I suggested that the Community Orchestra proceeds, including library, instruments, and so on, be contributed to the DePaul Orchestra.  And for awhile, we called it The DePaul Community Symphony Orchestra.  And — which it was.  It was a combination of those two.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=2268.0,2318.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  One of the problems was, in terms of the schools, that the string classes were diminished in size.  And so, it became quite a problem for the school orchestra simply to exist, on the, with the students who were students at the school.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAt any rate, it was a very successful arrangement.  And it lasted.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, an orchestra like your Community Symphony Orchestra…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …only on the North Side…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …made up mostly of amateur — and I use the word “amateur”…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  Sure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …in the correct sense of the word —\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  — people who love to play…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …but who were doctors, lawyers, businessmen…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …and whatever.  I mean, they’re not professional musicians.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  They don’t earn their living that way.  Is it because there isn’t an orchestra’s worth of, of such people anymore, and the generational change, and people don’t study music as children to the same degree as…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=2318.0,2382.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  I think it’s, that’s an important factor.  Because the number of people who studied string instruments declined.  And I think this is a reflection of that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eThere was a time, for example, before World War II, if you walked down Wabash Avenue, and just did this, this — you’d hit a violinist.  So many, there were so many people studying.  But they declined in number.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Although there are, I mean, there’s a group called Highland Park Strings, now.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s not, I don’t think it’s on the level that the orchestras were…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Hmmm-mmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …when you were conducting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=2382.0,2422.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  I know.  Yeah, I know that Victor Rightey conducted one of these…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, but…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  …groups, and so on.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …they’re around there.  But, but that was a fixture, I think — the Chicago Symphony.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Or as I grew up.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.  Sure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I remember, you had soloists who were, many of the budding — Rochelle Liebling, I remember, was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …[INAUDIBLE], died when I was a child.  But that hasn’t been replaced, has it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Not very much, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.  Now, I see here a book called The Racial Thinking of Richard Wagner.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Tell me how you got into that, [INAUDIBLE].\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Well, actually, this was my doctoral thesis.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=2422.0,2463.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  At DePaul?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  And there were a number of factors.  Because the fact, the sheer fact, of what had happened to the Jews during this period moved me very, very strongly.  And then, that sort of combined with the study I had made, initially, of Wagner and Mendelssohn — the attack, the scurrilous attacks of that.  And finally, grew into this theory of the racial thinking of Richard Wagner.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Hmmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=2463.0,2512.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e And the fact of the matter is that the work of Wagner, not only in his book, Judaism in Music, but in his other writings — I have here, for example, there, the — one, two, three, four, five, six, seven — the eight volumes of translation of all, outside of the librettos, of all his essay writings.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd this is a tragic situation, for many reasons.  For one reason, for example, one thing, unequivocally, we have to say — point out, and then we go through with that.  He’s one of the greatest composers who ever lived.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=2512.0,2555.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  No question.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  There’s no question about that.  But the fact of the scurrilous attacks on the Jews is evident, not only in Judaism in Music, but in most of his essays.  In other words, if you went through these things, you would have to have a pruning knife to cut these off.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd yet, when you think that these words are still in existence and are being read and taught in classes, these are very, very regrettable things.  For example, it became, it takes a great deal of control, when you teach, say, the history of music, not to mention this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=2555.0,2601.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e In one of my textbooks, Structure and Style, and an Anthology of Musical Forms, which is still in circulation, I made a firm decision not to discuss the racial aspect in this book, because it was irrelevant to the central theme of what that book was supposed to have.  But yet, when one thinks of these scurrilous and prejudicial remarks, it becomes a tragic thing.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eI, as a matter of fact, when the book was published, Virgil, Virgil Thompson devoted a whole Sunday column to the book.  And, and he pointed out, he said, “As great as the music is,” he said, “one has to treat it with care because it is, it has poison at its source, so to speak.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=2601.0,2660.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  So, at any rate, the book was written and was published by The Philosophical Library.  And that was that.  It is still, it’s being internationally circulated.  I come across references to this in various sources.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  There’s a whole lot of new recent works on the subject…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …new material, and new approaches.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Sure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  A number of works in German.  There’s one book in English that just came out last year, from the University of Nebraska Press.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Hmmm-mmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I don’t know the scholar who wrote it.  Something like Mark Weiner or Wyner — I don’t know.  But I went, when you were working on this, this was back in, when…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=2660.0,2707.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Fifty years ago.  \u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  We were just talking about your book on Wagner.  And before we continue with it, let me ask you — you did this, obviously, this was when?  Before the war or after the war?  After the war.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  After the war.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But it was still in the early ‘50s.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  It was 1950.  It was published in 1950.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Published in 1950.  All right.  Then your research on it was done in America, though.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You didn’t go over to Germany to do any research.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You couldn’t have.  What kind of archives could you find in Chicago?  Did you do it all in Chicago?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Well, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Wagner’s…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=2707.0,2741.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Well, first of all, as I say, here, I have — but I can’t pull them out here — but here are the — I think there are eight volumes of translations.  And, and I read practically everything in those eight volumes.  And that was the source of the material.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eHis letters also has, I had a great amount of material.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Were all the letters available to you in Chicago?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  They were…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …everything was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Newberry, Newberry has a big collection.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=2741.0,2766.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e And we can come back to one thing here.  And this I had, in 1950, there was a, Bloch was honored by a series of programs in Chicago.  And I wrote him and invited him to give a lecture at DePaul.  But he excused himself and said it’s impossible to fit it in.  But, in the course — and here is his letter, his letter. He mentioned the fact — he made some compliment, some complimentary remarks about the book.  And then, he mentioned the great, what he called “the great and tragic part” it played in his own, own life.  Well, briefly, I’ll talk about this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=2766.0,2812.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e His, the first critic who called attention to the significance of Bloch’s work was a writer by the name of Godet — G-O-D-E-T.  And they remained true and devoted friends, until Godet was asked to translate The Foundations of the 19th Century, written by Wagner’s son-in-law, Eustace Stewart Chamberlain.  And, in the course of translating this book, this man, who had been his greatest friend, became his worst enemy.  And because the, this man absorbed completely what The Foundations of the 19th Century pointed out, which was, was all Wagnerian anti, anti-Semitism.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=2812.0,2867.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e This book was put in the knap, the knapsack of every German officer, when he, he got his, his order.  And it contributed to the Hitlerism which followed subsequently.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNow, this was the result of simply the translation of The Foundations by Eustace Stewart Chamberlain, which is simply the distillation of the Wagnerian anti-Semitism.  And this was the result of this.  And that a man who had been his staunchest friend became his worst enemy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=2867.0,2912.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  … the biggest collection of Wagnerian writing, Ernest Newman, wrote the book Wagner As Man and Artist.  Originally, he did not accept the fact that Wagner’s so-called “father” was not his real father.  But what finally determined his conclusion that it was the other way, was that shortly after Wagner was born, his mother carried him, in the dead of winter, halfway across Germany, to bring this boy to the attention of his true father.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  Hmmm-mm.  And I, I pointed that out in the book.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=2912.0,2963.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  But the question, of course, of whether or not he had a Jewish father is immaterial, in a certain way.  Because we’ve had situations, like this man Collins, you know, in Skokie.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Whose father was Jewish, and who became terribly anti-Semitic.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  No, it doesn’t have anything to do with it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s just…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-mmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But it’s an interesting — now, this book is not in print now, is it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Nope.  It’s out of print.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So this is, but I imagine one could get a copy in the library…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=2963.0,2995.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Second, second-hand bookstores and libraries.  Most, most university libraries have a copy of this.  Mmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And, well, now, they’re playing, now, they’re trying to introduce Wagner through concert programs in Israel.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Because it’s difficult.  It’s a really difficult problem.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  But it’s a difficult situation.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Even though…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  [INAUDIBLE].\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …even though it wasn’t absent from the musical life…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …of the German — what about Strauss?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=2995.0,3024.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Well, that’s, that’s a problem, too.  Because Heifetz played a Strauss sonata for violin and piano, and somebody knocked the bow out of his hand.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBut again, it’s a mixed bag.  Because Strauss actually was helpful to many Jewish musicians.  And, but he had his position to maintain.  And granted that Toscannini said, “The heck with it.  I don’t conduct in Germany.”  But it’s, I think it’s easy to reproach the individual on a tenuous situation.  And I cannot do that, really.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But Strauss didn’t have any connection in the way that Wagner did with — I mean, he didn’t…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3024.0,3077.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Oh, no, no.  As a matter of fact, Strauss — no, he didn’t, he played the works, started supporting Hitlerism.  But actually, he helped many Jewish musicians.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Before Hitler, though.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  And even after that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I haven’t read the book.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Hmmm-mmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And I would like to read it.  Now, I’m intrigued to read it.  Bloch corresponded with you just this one time, or…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  I have several — no.  I have some, several old letters from, with him, subsequent to this.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But unfortunately, you were never able to arrange for him to speak.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3077.0,3116.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  No.  Unfortunately, there was no time.  I mean, he could not even fit it in with a shoehorn.  And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, what was Bloch’s position on Wagner?  I mean, did he have any…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Well, I mean it, I think it’s simple enough, in the sense that as a musician, he admired.  And I’m guessing.  He admired what he represented.  But in terms of what he represented in a racial sense, and he…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But how do you account for the fact that Wagner — ironically, one of his assistants, one of his assistant conductors is sometimes — that was Jewish?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh.  Another — I’ll go further than that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Exclude that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3116.0,3156.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.  Sure.  He would accept help from any source, whether Jewish or not.  But the Parsifal was conducted by a Jewish conductor.  And he wrote a letter objecting to the fact that a Jew would conduct the performance, first performance of Parsifal.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKing Glovner pointed out to him, he says that, “This is an unfortunate attitude you have.”  And he reproached Wagner for bringing up a matter that a Jewish conductor will be conducting the premiere of Parsifal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3156.0,3198.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  There was one, one of his assistants who committed suicide or something?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  Sure.  It was a pianist.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But he was Jewish?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-mmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And there was some suspicion over the conflict of working with Wagner…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Hmmm-mmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …I don’t know.  Werner gave a paper on this…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  I see.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …at the Leo Baeck Institute.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Some time in the early 1980s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3198.0,3222.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e It was very interesting.  We visited Wagner’s home in Zurich — in Switzerland.  And the interesting thing is, his bookcase, which had a sort of a circular, a con, convex door.  The most handled book in his private library was Judaism, The Jewish, Judaism, Juden Tool Eva Musik — Judaism in….  The most handled book, really.  So it’s something that he felt deeply about.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3222.0,3261.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  There was a World’s Fair.  I don’t remember what year it was.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  ’33, ’34?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  ’33.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  ’33?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And there was apparently a big Jewish musical day there.  Do you remember, do you know anything about that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, wait.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Something Meyer Weiskopf did…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes.  I remember that.  They had a, a program in Grant Park.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Something like that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Was it Grant Park?  Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3261.0,3283.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Grant Park.  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And were you there?  Did you have any…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah, I attended some of those.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  There was some pageant they put on…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …that I’m trying to find out about.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  With a couple thousand people in the chorus, or something like that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:   Yes.  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I forget what it was called.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Romance of a People, maybe?  Something like that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  I forget.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, it’s part, I noticed this here.  On — it says, “For the first time” — this notice — “For the first time since the days of the Holy Temple Jerusalem, Jewish Music Festival at Madison Square Garden.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And Ed Sullivan…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  As Master of Ceremonies there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  I mean, how do you have — were you involved in that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3283.0,3324.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Well, in a certain way, yes.  My Three Hasidic Dances were performed on that program.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eRichard Bass was a, a conductor.  And conducted the NBC Symphony Orchestra.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Is that the same — that’s Warner Bass?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Warner Bass, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Is that the same one?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah, yeah.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Warner?  Zelig, he took that name, he came from Germany.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And one of the pieces on that program was your…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN: Three Hasidic Dances.  Pearl Lang and her dance group did that. And as it was, paradoxically, I imagine she thought that the publisher would write me and the publisher thought that she would write me, so we were not there. But we would have been, of course — been happy to be there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3324.0,3363.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  She also did, did this, the Three Hasidic Dances in Montreal.  And — Pearl and her dance group.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So it has choreography?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But, but it doesn’t have to have choreography.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It can be done as…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  It was written as a, as a, as a suite.  An — the three dances in themselves.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd the material in the first and the third dance is traditionally derived.  The second dance is independent — is, is not traditionally derived.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, how did you come to write those?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3363.0,3392.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Well, I was in the conducting class.  In the course of the conducting class, with, at this time, with Hans Lange, and so on, I wrote various things, which were immediately read, fortunately, by the orchestra.  And I did — and that’s when they were written.  And — during this period.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd it is interesting that, subsequently, when I got some royalty listing, they found that Hans Lange had done these works with the Albuquerque Symphony Orchestra.  And — but that’s how they got to be written.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And the, well, what caused the, what was the reason that you chose Hasidic…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3392.0,3440.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Oh, well, first of all, the first movement is, is a series of, of variations on — (hums it).  That series of variations.  The third dance uses some traditional Hasidic melodies, which are very — and treated orchestrally.  The second dance is a reflective dance.  And it is totally original.  And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Were you interested particularly in Hasidism, or…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, yeah.  I’ll tell you what.  Particularly — you see, I was the music director at the Workmen’s Circle Camp.  We did a lot of Hasidic music there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh.  The Workmen’s Circle — that’s — where was that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3440.0,3486.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  South of Michigan.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, Michigan?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  Mmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What was it called?  I remember, as a kid…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Kinderland.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Kinderland.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah, sure.  Sure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, and when was that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  I’ll tell you when it was.  Let’s see — that was about 193 — let’s see, about 1931, ’32.  Somewhere…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  …around there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And the Workmen’s Circle Camp — Camp Kinderland — was a Yiddish-speaking camp, wasn’t it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3486.0,3510.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Correct.  And the interesting thing is, that every two weeks, there was a complete, new program — dance, song, and so on.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eThe leader — the dance teacher — was Menachim Skolnick’s daughter.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Really?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The actor?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  And her star student was Pearl Lang.  And then, Pearl’s — studied in Chicago with Frances Ellis.  And then, finally, went to New York.  She became a, a key member of Martha Graham’s group, and then became one of the leading dance choreographers in New York.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  How many years, roughly, were you up at the Workmen’s Circle camp?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3510.0,3554.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Oh, about four years.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  In those — I mean, they did kind of student things, they did Yiddish programs, they did operettas?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.  Yes, that’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Things like that?  And you conducted those?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Well, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  We wrote the music for that, or we got, the, they were coached, in various ways.  And they had a fine director and actor, Fishbein, Benjamin Fishbein, was one; Nachbush was another.  And they directed these…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Nachbush?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That’s a vaguely familiar name.  Do you remember any other names there from the Chicago…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3554.0,3595.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, let’s see.  Barzalai was a, a director, for awhile.  Then Carson, who was a teacher in, in the system.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eIt’s very interesting.  I was taking a walk in the Humboldt Park area, and he met me.  He said they were looking for somebody to take over the teaching of the Jewish songs for the Workmen’s Circle school.  And would I be interested?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3595.0,3629.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e And so, he gave me some material.  And they had a meeting at the school.  And so, I auditioned in two ways.  In the first place, teaching these material to the children.  And in the second place, my sister and I played the Beethoven Springtime Sonata for the program.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd, interestingly enough, Pearl Lang also was on the program, as an entertainer, as well as Seymour Raven, the name Seymour…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3629.0,3662.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Rabinovitch.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Rabinovitch.  And who later became the music critic for the Tribune and the manager of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra.  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That’s right.  He came from — I heard that.  He came from…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …Yiddishiste background.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  There were people like Eugene Malick — was he involved in that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah, but not with the — Malick directed the adult choir.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But at the, in the Workmen’s Circle?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Uh…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  I don’t know if it was actually — I think Paul Held was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Paul Held.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  Was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Malick might have been to the left of the Workmen’s Circle.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3662.0,3694.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Right, right.  Malick, as I remember, was with the leftist group.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He was pretty far left.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  Mmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I don’t know what they called it, but…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …the Jewish People’s something, or — yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Because, I mean, there was, at one time, a chorus, then.  Wasn’t there?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, yes.  A very excellent chorus.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Do you remember those people?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, yeah.  Sure, sure.  As a matter of fact, I was interviewed at DePaul, where I was Dean.  Because a student by the name of Malick was — so, he wanted to know if there was any connection.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Uh-huh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3694.0,3728.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  And there were members of the, people from the FBI, actually.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Really?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  And so, it was interesting.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  Yeah, well, I mean, that was — I forget whether it was the Jewish People’s Philharmonic Chorus or the Jewish People’s something or other.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.  Yeah.  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And the Workmen’s Circle had offices, in those days.  I mean, they were a functioning organization.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  They supported the camp.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah, sure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Uh-huh.  That was what you told me before — Arnold Miller was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Well…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …with the camp when you were there?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  …oh, he was at the camp.  And then, I directed the Young People’s Chorus, the young people’s branch of the Workmen’s Circle for a few years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3728.0,3767.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e As a matter of fact, in conjunction with one of the programs, my wife and I took a walk in, in Douglas Park, you know, when her sister was being graduated.  And, and while I had, she had — her parents had had a, a, had had a cabin in Southaven, and I met her there.  Anyhow, the — after a few months, why, we began going together, and lo and behold — I now tell you why I say “lo and behold.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMy granddaughter, Samara, once asked me, she said, “Grandpa,” she said, “what is the most important single thing that ever happened to you, besides being born?”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eI said, “That’s easy.  It’s the day I married your grandma.”  Mmm-hmmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3767.0,3820.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And that’s the coincidence there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The repertoire as were conducted with the Workmen’s Circle, with the Young — with these groups there.  Was this all a Yiddishiste repertoire?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  The young people’s group — The Young Circle Group — was mostly English, some Yiddish.  But the children’s group was all, all Yiddish.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  They sang special songs for…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Comminmere and Kemperrein…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.  Mmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Or Ungen Fires or something.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  That’s right.  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  How about some of those — the adults.  I mean, there are a whole lot of choral pieces that kind of, with a political bent or a social bent, whatever.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Like so-called “cantatas,” is what they called them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3820.0,3863.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Oh, yeah.  Jacob Schaeffer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Schaeffer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  He was an important composer of such choral works.  And, as a matter of fact, studied with Adolph Wedekind at the American Conservatory, for awhile.  But I would say he was one of the more important…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Was Schaeffer a Chicagoan?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  And then, and then, there are other people in New York who were active.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But Schaeffer is — yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Pretty — well, did he direct choruses for them?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He probably was left, left of the Workmen’s Circle, I think?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.  Right.  Correct.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I can’t remember the name of those cantatas.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I didn’t know he was a Chicagoan.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Did you know him?  Schaeffer?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3863.0,3905.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Casually.  Very casually.  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  Now, the piece here I’m looking at, the Sabbath Prelude for organ.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That’s a later piece?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No, it’s an earlier piece.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  An earlier piece.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  This, is this the only piece you’ve written just for organ for the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Right.  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …[INAUDIBLE] prelude?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  It was a, it’s a sort of a — modeled, in a sense on the Bach choral pieces.  There is the (hums a bit), which is the traditional 90th Psalm.  And, having established the melody, then there is a fugue which follows, based on that, you see.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Uh-huh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  There was a piece you were telling me about, where the one movement was…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3905.0,3953.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Oh, that’s the Concerto for, for Oboe and String Orchestra.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh.  Right.  Tell me about that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  And the slow movement is Aria Hebraic.  And, but the rest of it is not Hebraic at all.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oboe and string orchestra.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  Oboe and strings.  And it’s had all of three performances, and so on.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBut the assistant principal of the Chicago Symphony did it with a string group in Chicago.  Done by another group in Las Vegas, and some, some third performance.  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Did you ever write anything for cantor?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3953.0,3991.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  The only thing I actually wrote is a, a choral — it’s a, a solo work for orchestra and a cantor.  And it, that has been done in some memorial program I gave.  I’m not… yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  I’d be interested to see that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  This Invocation of Dance for Violin and Piano.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  Now, that is Hebraic in quality.  It is a theme and variations, using the dudele.  Traditional…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Traditional dudele.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  I have the opening, with the Ribono shel Olam, and then, so on, as a recitative for unaccompanied violin.  And then, a series of variations — (hums some).","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=3991.0,4052.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  And it’s been effectively done.  And Dave Moll has done it in Chicago, and done it, it’s been done in other places.  It’s published by Carl Fisher’s.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And this — yeah.  This is, I would say, a known piece.  I mean…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …I’ve known about this piece for a long time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And this is the concerto that…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …did with the movement..  How many symphonies have you written?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Four. I’ll tell you what they are.  In, with a total of about 103 or 104 pieces, compositions, all the others, includes four symphonies.  And numerous other works for orchestra.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4052.0,4097.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Now, one of the works is dedicated to the memory of this man who led these orphan children to their destruction.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh.  Doctor — something with a K.  Korchak?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Korchak.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Something like that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.  And that has been done by orchestras.  Then Shall the Dust Return.  And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, that’s — tell me about that piece.  That’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  It’s written for orchestra.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Full orchestra.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Symphony orchestra, or…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Full symphony…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …[INAUDIBLE] orchestra?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No.  Full symphony orchestra.  And I consider it, really, one of my most important works.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4097.0,4134.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Originally, you see, I had, I had taken some material from Ecclesiastes.  And then, I read the biography of Korchak, a ghetto diary.  And impressed by that — also, with the parallel to this passage which I had written.  And I decided to dedicate the work to his memory.  And, as I say, it’s for full symphony orchestra.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And the name of the work is?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4134.0,4165.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Then Shall the Dust Return.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And it’s about how long, do you think?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Twenty minutes, I would say.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The one movement?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So [INAUDIBLE].  Was that performed in Chicago?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  By the DePaul Orchestra.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  By the DePaul Orchestra.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4165.0,4177.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Mmm-hmm.  And, as a matter of fact, I had sent a copy to the Chicago Symphony Orchestra.  And this younger composer who was in charge of the — reviewing the works which had come, and so on, asked if he could have a copy of it and put it into the Regensteiner Library collection of works connected with the Holocaust.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That I’d like — I’d be interested to see a copy.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  I think…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I’d be interested in that piece.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Shall I get it for you?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, I can get it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  Yeah.  I’m going to see it later.  Yeah.  Sure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  We should have that on file.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNow, these are, this is some of the interesting letters.  But these are all — that talks about, these are the letters from Stein — I mean, from Bloch.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4177.0,4234.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  From Bloch, and so on, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Then, I see you have some correspondence with Suzanne Bloch.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  She…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And so you have all….  But these are from Ben Weber, for example.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  He is a student.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You teach him?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, yeah.  He is a student of mine at DePaul.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, is he now?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  And there is some correspondence with him which is very interesting.  And then, I have some others.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4234.0,4260.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  For example, among the others, from Irwin Baslin.  He’s a well-known New York composer.  He is a former student.  And I have a file of things he had written.  So, they’re of interest.  And there’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Who else were some of your students who went on to…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Well, let’s see.  Ben Weber, Irwin Baslin — there was George Weber, who is a bass clarinet with the Chicago Symphony.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eWilliam — Willis — Schaeffer, who is one of the busiest Disney World conductors and composers.  He went on tour with the band, with the band at the ice show.  He wrote a lot of music.  And — for background for some of the Disney scores.  And he just recently wrote a very flattering note to me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4260.0,4314.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  And there’s an Earl Zinarz, who won an award.  Zinarz, Weber, Donald Jenet, who is the head of the theory department at University of Iowa.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eA John Downey, who is at the University of North — at University of — wait.  Of Wisconsin, in Milwaukee.  And there was a sister, Theophane, who, who passed away recently, but was very, very talented.  Had a sister.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSo, there were quite a number of people.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  In the, let’s say, before the — or even up to the ‘60s — to the ‘30s, ’40s, ’50s, ‘60s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Who were some of the other prominent composers?  I mean, what kind of a composers’ community did you have there in Chicago?  I mean…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4314.0,4372.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Well, one of the early, the first, really, I think, one of the first composers from Chicago to win the Prix de Rome was Leo Saudi (?).  And John Oldman Carpenter, who, who was also a, a very talented composer in the Chicago area.  And there were various other people.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  There weren’t departments at the time, were there, at — well, Northwestern had…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  Sure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That goes way back.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I don’t know who was there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4372.0,4401.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Uh, what’s… the, the, I’m trying to remember his name.  The, the head of the piano department was also simultaneously the head of the composition department, and they had an active composition department since that time.  And Karlin is the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, Karlin is now.  Or…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  Now.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I don’t know if he still is, but…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  But not, not back at that time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I’m talking back…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …in your circle.  The people with whom you either looked up to when you were a student or a composer.  And who were the Chicago composers?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4401.0,4435.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Well, there was, at DePaul, there was Wesley LaViolette, was the conductor of the orchestra, and a composer, and, and Weber, and then — oh, George Perle, who was a student of…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  George Perle.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Was he from Chicago?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You don’t mean, you’re not talking about the violin teacher George Perlmutter?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No, no, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You’re talking about the composer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4435.0,4456.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  P-E-R-L-E.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  George Perle.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, he was a Chicagoan?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  He, I don’t know where he got his degree, but he worked at DePaul a considerable amount of time.  And he was a foremost composer — theorist — in reference to the Shainberg, the art school.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Sure.  Yeah.  There’s a book on it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, he’s in New York now.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  He’s very active.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Who else?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  And, well, I’d have to go back.  Let me see.  We mentioned — Dunmar — some writing.  Very traditional, but well-crafted writing.  And Stock, Stock did some writing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4456.0,4497.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e It’s a very interesting thing that when Lenge came to conduct the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, Stock had written a composition dedicated to whatever anniversary the orchestra had.  It was so Max Burchreit (?) that I think he finally decided, hey….\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eHe wrote a violin concerto, which had some interesting activity.  It was done by a student of Graham Garvin, with the Chicago Symphony.  But that’s about it.  Although he had done some other arrangements.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4497.0,4536.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  I remember the first, first work that Lenge came to conduct when he did the Chicago, with the Chicago Symphony was Stock’s, I would call amplification of the Schumann Third Symphony, where he filled out the thing, and it’s better than the original.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  Well, everybody says — yeah.  And the University of Chicago didn’t have a music…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4536.0,4559.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Oh, they had a music, an active, a music theory department.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But not composition.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  But not composition.  Composition came later.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Much later.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  With Shapey and all that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That’s much later.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Do you know Shapey?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  Mmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I think he’s retired now.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm.  I didn’t know that.  Mmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  And what about, I mean, other — in this circle that you, for example, who were the, when you were growing up, who were the piano teachers, the great violin teachers, piano teachers?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4559.0,4591.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Yeah.  They had a, a, a great sense, a great number of good violin teachers.  Sabatini was one.  Herbert Butler was another.  Max Fisher was another.  Ganz, and the head of the — Gunn, Gunn — Glen Dillard Gunn was another.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eThen, among the other piano teachers, there was one at, at, I just can’t remember his name.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Buchalter?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Well, he’s one, certainly.  Sure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I don’t know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Sure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Maybe it was an independent?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  And — and, yeah.  Buchalter…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Shane?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  …we, I’ll tell you, we, Rosalyn Ferg (?) was a student of his.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Of Buchalter?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Really?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4591.0,4634.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Yeah, yeah.  And then, she went to New York, studied with Stachowsky’s wife.  Sameroff Stachowsky (?).  And became internationally known as one of the Bach famous…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Mm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  …pianists.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4634.0,4651.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  It was very interesting.  She lived a block away from us.  And she and my sister were very close friends.  And for the first summer when she can’t get, was at Juilliard, she used to practice at our, at our home.  And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What about, there was somebody named Vitale Shnae(?)?  Does that name…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4651.0,4670.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Oh, Vitale Shnae.  Yeah, a pianist?  There was also Vivioshanti, at the American Conservatory, Hans Hedeolevia (?), at the American Conservatory.  He was a very good piano teacher.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Is it fair to say, under your deanship, and so forth, I mean, DePaul kind of seems to have gelled as one of the major schools?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  It really was, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And there were so many others that, I mean, if you go back, let’s say, if you go back to — I don’t know — I’m just thinking of little adverts I saw in the, in orchestra hall programs in 1953 and ‘4 as a child.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  There was Chicago Conservatory of Music, which was different from the American Conservatory.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I don’t remember who was….  Somebody like Hans Hesse, for example.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Remember Hans Hesse, the cellist?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4670.0,4713.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  The cellist, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  He taught for us for awhile, too.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He did, too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4713.0,4716.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Yes.  And I’ll tell you who we had — it was a very interesting…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eTowards the end of Arthur Becker’s career, there was a whole group of really important Russian musicians.  Serge Chinofsky (?).  Nikolai Malakol (?).  Of the Komeipool (?).  A singer, Malcolm, the conductor, Renko and Paul Sesseivitch (?), who was an excellent violin teacher.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Sesseivitch.  And then, what about a composer, I forgot about…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Chirapnin (?).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Chirapnin, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  And Chirapnin.  So there were, there were quite a group of Russians.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4716.0,4752.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  As a matter of fact, I remember when, walking down the street, and McDonald, I believe, was big, the baritone.  He had done the Ninth Symphony, which I had done at Orchestra Hall.  And he said, “Hey, how is your little Russian colony doing?”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBut they made a very important contribution, really.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Did Chirapnin teach at DePaul?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, that’s what I thought.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Certainly, sure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And what about Krenek?  Was he ever in Chicago?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No.  No.  Oh, with Krenek I have a very interesting thing, in my collection of letters.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4752.0,4786.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Krenek was the son-in-law of Mahler.  And I was curious about what Jewish background Mahler had.  And so, I thought I would write him — to Krenek — and write him and ask him, to his knowledge, whether Mahler spoke or knew Yiddish.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd, and he answered, and was kind enough to answer — and this was two weeks before he died, by the way — that, not to his knowledge.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4786.0,4814.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  I don’t know about Hebrew.  Because, I would imagine he might have had some Hebrew background.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Maybe, but it’s just…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …probably would…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  But no Yiddish, because they didn’t…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, I don’t know.  Mahler grew up in Vienna, didn’t he?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No.  He, he came…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Or he came to Vienna.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  He came to Vienna.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s hard to say.  But Krenek — somebody told me, he must have lectured, then, in Chicago or something.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, yeah, sure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Krenek.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Sure.  Sure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Because somebody, actually…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4814.0,4844.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e As a matter of fact, I’ll tell you.  That’s the reason I wrote him, because somebody said he won’t answer.  And he’s over 90 years old.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBut when I was in the conduct, a conducting class, he played his Piano Concerto with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra.  And, incidentally, gave a 15-minute lecture on the 12-tone roll that he used.  I figured out how much that lecture cost them.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd, but I told him I really enjoyed his performance, and told him about having to be present at this — and anyhow, that made it provident to reply.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4844.0,4880.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN: you also wrote.  You wrote quite a lot of articles, and I wanted to talk about that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And we’ll come back to that a little later.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes, I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But it’s something, I really wasn’t aware of the number of things.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But, I mean, here, there is some discussion with Max Targ, secretary of the AMLI.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  [INAUDIBLE].\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  There, there’s, I wrote a very, I think, a good, an article on “An Ecumenical Moment.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s “An Ecumenical Moment.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And what is that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4880.0,4909.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Now, what had happened was that Max Targ called me one day.  As I wrote in the article, it’s like a billiard ball that caromed from one plane to another.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eHe said, “The Israel Symphony is going to make its American debut in Chicago.  But in America, but will be in Chicago.  And I thought it would be fine if you would present to the Jerusalem, the University of Jerusalem…”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Hebrew University?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4909.0,4947.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Hebrew University.  “…a series of books.”  And he said, “I’ll arrange for us to get a rehearsal room.  Leonard Bernstein will be assistant conductor.  And you and Dean Becker will select the books and bring them down.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e“And it will, it will be a groundbreaking.  It will just be one of the first official contacts from a Catholic, a Catholic university.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSo I said, “Well, it sounds like a good idea.  But we have to get the, get the approval of the administration.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4947.0,4982.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e So, I spoke to Arthur Becker.  He says, “It sounds like a good idea.  And I’ll speak to the administration.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd they said fine, they’d like to do that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNow, then I was thinking that perhaps it would be more appropriate for the dean — I was director of the graduate division — for the dean of the School of Music to present the books.  And so, I said that to Max.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=4982.0,5009.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  He said, “But, look.  You’re the director of our graduate division at DePaul.  And you’re also on our Board of Governors.  So I would like to have you do that.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBut I finally talked him out of that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  And I came and I spoke to Arthur Becker.  And he agreed to do that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd the next day, as we were reading it, to select the books for the library, he said, “You know,” he said, “I thought that, rather than I present the books, why don’t we have the president of the university present the books?”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5009.0,5043.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  So he called Father O’Malley.  And Father O’Malley said he’d look at his calendar.  He said yes, he can make it.  He wanted, he wanted to speak at the banquet.  And the banquet would be following the afternoon concert that Bernstein was going to conduct.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eWell, anyhow, we met there, and I forget why they didn’t — they usually photograph everything, because it would have been interesting, to have this reading of Bernstein, Becker, and myself, presenting the books.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Mmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5043.0,5075.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e At any rate, he, he said he would speak after the concert, at the banquet, at the Covenant Club.  And so, he did.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNow, what happened next was rather interesting.  About two weeks after that, I get a call from the president’s office, and, “Father O’Malley would like to see you.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSo I came up there and he said, “You know, Leon, as a result of me speaking at the Covenant Club, I got a very substantial check from Max Baskin, the president of the Covenant Club.  And I’d like to send a response to him.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5075.0,5123.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e He said, “Now, remember, a few months ago, you told me, when you were at the British Museum, that you saw a sarcophagus, and it was, the sarcophagus was the man who had presented the gold, the gold-plated bronze doors that were in, put in the Second Temple of Herod.  And this — Nikolai of whatever.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAt any rate.  And I wrote this out in Hebrew and I then said, “Would you like to see your name written in Hebrew?”  And Yiddish — the same thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5123.0,5175.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e He said, and remembering that, “Would you do me a favor?”  He said, “Draw up a letter in Yiddish, and I’ll sign it and send it to Max, to the Covenant Club and Max Baskin.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd so, I did.  And I drew the letter up and the man, and they got the letter there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd what happened next, again, was interesting.  Because one of the persons that was at that, the meeting of the Covenant, of the AMLI group — the American Music Library of Israel — was impressed with that.  And so, subsequently, a few weeks later, he presented to the DePaul library the complete, published works of the Israel, of Israel Publications.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5175.0,5229.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  And so, I have, we have it illustrated, I have pictures of our meeting, by the way.  And then, a final result, which was sort of appropriate, as a result of that interplay, Max and Fanny Targ presented a perpetual string scholarship to the university.  And it all is from one telephone call.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd it was interesting.  That one thing sort of led to another.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And that’s the ecumenical moment?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  That’s the ecumenical moment.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Interesting.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Danny Newman, I see.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He had some…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5229.0,5278.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.  Danny is a, a good, close friend.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAs a matter of fact, when the, when the orchestra was in Chicago, he was kind enough — he and his wife, Dina Halpern — to invite us to his house, and then, with a Mister, a Kaminsky, who was then the koll (?) concertmaster of the Israel Philharmonic.  And who was a member of a well-known acting family, by the way.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd I had asked him, I said, “When is, when will the Israel, Israel Philharmonic have a permanent conductor?”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5278.0,5315.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  He said, “Well, the situation is this.”  He said, “Those who might want, might want to be permanent conductor, we’re not that interested in.  And the people who we’re interested, they are not interested.”  So, he said, “It’s a sort of a mixed sit, situation.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eEventually, Zubin Mehta became conductor for life.  And so, that settled that problem, for awhile.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd, but we’ve been, oh, good friends, Danny and Ann and I, and Dina, have been good friends for many years.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The correspondence you had with somebody named Paula Potter.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5315.0,5355.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSTEIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, yeah.  This is an, an interesting thing.  She wrote, in the recent publication of the Musicology, American Association of Musicology magazine, an article on Hitler’s professors.  And she brings up to date the matter of, the matter of the people who have been influential in carrying Nazism into the music field, internationally.  She’s on the faculty of the University of Illinois.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5355.0,5394.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  And what struck me particularly was that Musik in de Shiften Gaygevar (?), which is, Music in History, Past and Present, which is really the biggest music encyclopedia in the world, had asked me to do a biography of Stock and Thomas.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  And so, I was glad to do that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5394.0,5418.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN: And I mentioned one thing which was of interest.  Two sentences.  That Theodore Thomas had been invited to come, by Cologne, for the, at the end of the century.  And — either as a guest conductor, or with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra.  And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But Thomas founded the orchestra, didn’t he?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN: I beg your pardon?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Theodore Thomas founded…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  He was the first conductor, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He wasn’t the founder?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes, he was.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He was the founder and the first conductor.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5418.0,5451.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Yeah.  And his wife would have, would have been very happy to go.  But he finally sent a letter that, considering the Dreyfuss case, he could not accept the invitation.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, what does that mean?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Because, you know, the Dreyfuss case was this big scandal…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  In France.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  In France.  And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But what did that have to do with Theodore Thomas not wanting to…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Well, because, it’s during that period.  That he was invited.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  In the 1890s?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5451.0,5482.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Yeah.  To come to Cologne.  And because of the Dreyfuss case, found that he could not do that, in good conscience.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd the interesting thing is, that in — I’ll show this to you later — in the, they sent me an off-print of a translation.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Hmmm-mmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  And the translator had omitted the section…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Huh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  …about the Dreyfuss…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Huh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  …case, and Theodore Thomas.  I found that sort of telling.  And sort of symptomatic, unfortunately, in a certain way.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But Theodore Thomas — why didn’t he want to go to — what did the Dreyfuss case have to do with his…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5482.0,5520.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Because it was a, the injustice of it.  He would not participate in an official connection with France during the scandal, during the Dreyfuss case.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I see.  But he wasn’t Jewish himself?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Not at all.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Theodore Thomas.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s just a question of…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No.  A question of integrity.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …integrity, the same way…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, and then he wound up in Chicago.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  But anyhow, this Paula P0tter — I sent her this.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Hmmm-mmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5520.0,5544.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  And I sent her both a copy of the MGG translation, and that the translator had omitted these two sentences.  Two little sentences!\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And that’s what she wrote you about?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No, no.  I wrote to her.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You wrote to her.  You corresponded to her.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I had, yeah, Virgil Thomas’ review.  Well, that’s a review of one of yours.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  Mmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Mmm-hmm.  Where was that performed?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5544.0,5569.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  They were written, the New York Herald Tribune.  As I say, he devoted his full Sunday column to that review.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  In going through your articles that you, the things that you’ve written, there are a number of things that intrigued me.  There were quite a few here that had to do with some Jewish subject or other.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Well…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Musically, or so forth.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Well…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Were you always interested in that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Or…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Because I had had, among those articles, and they are all printed in the Jewish, Chicago published Jewish Forum magazine.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The Forum?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.  And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That hasn’t existed for a long time, but…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5569.0,5616.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Yeah.  And it was “Virtual Identity of Jewish Music.”  The other was the “Wagner and Mendelssohn.”  Another was “The So-called ‘Problem’ of Ernest Bloch,” and so on and so forth.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, what about, tell me about the Bloch.  We’ll go back to this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5616.0,5639.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Well, the question of — the reason that I say the “problem” of Ernest Bloch is that you have some controversial approaches to Bloch’s position.  For example, there are Gradowitz, who was an important Jewish historian.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Peter Gradowitz?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.  Refuses to credit Bloch with being an essentially Jewish composer.  And so I, I took this question up in some, in some detail.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What’s your position?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5639.0,5676.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Well, that he, he absolutely is a Jewish composer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Um…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  And the Gradowitz position was that only a person who was grounded in a Jewish sort of atmosphere, so to speak, for a great period of time, can be so credited.  So I, I believe that was a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, that’s kind of…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Right.  You see, I wrote, in this article, what I did, I quoted several different critical…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, Gradowitz — he’s still around?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But that’s not taken very seriously.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5676.0,5711.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  No.  But I, what I find interesting was that I had about three or four different quotations…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  …each of which contradicted each other.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Sure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  That’s why I called it “The Problem of Ernest Bloch.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I was wondering, I mean, did you deal with his own personal…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Who?  Gradowitz?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.  Bloch.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  In our searchings, I mean, there is some question of Bloch’s own consideration of conversion altogether, at one time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5711.0,5740.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Oh, no.  There was nothing.  And can I give you a little background?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Tell me about that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  A little background on it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eWhen he was in Chicago, Max Targ had made an arrangement for Bloch, one of the rabbis connected with the program, and myself, to meet an hour before, just for an interesting discussion.  And this rabbi said, “You know, Mr. Bloch, we were a little hesitant about scheduling you for this program in Chicago, because one of the pictures you sent us had a picture, had a crucifix hanging on the wall.  And there was some discussion as to whether this meant a conversion on your part.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5740.0,5786.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  He said, “No, not at all.”  He said, he said, “My dearest friend at the time that I received this as a gift, as an artistic gift, was this man, Godet.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Which we spoke about.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Mmm-hmm.  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  And he gave it to him, and Bloch treasured it as a memento of what had been a great friendship.  And he said, and always said, he says, “I believe the house of God has many doors.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5786.0,5817.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  But he considered himself, of course, essentially Jewish.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And then, I look at the list of articles here.  These are all for the Forum?  But does it say here — yeah.  Here it is — Jewish Music Forum, “The Identity of Jewish Music…”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …that you mentioned.  And then, you’ve got another article on Hasidic music.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Where did you find the material to, and resources for that in Chicago?  Just…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Well, various collections.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Uh-huh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Various collections.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Here’s “The Problem of Ernest Bloch,” that you mentioned.  And Rossi, you wrote something on Rossi.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And that was pretty early.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5817.0,5857.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Mmm-hmm.  Yes.  He is one of the first Jewish violinist-composers.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And in fact, it was even early for you to be writing.  People weren’t doing — nowadays, everybody, a lot of people are doing research and things on Rossi.  But at that time — it doesn’t say when it was, but if it was the Forum, it’s a while back, because…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Sure.  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …the Forum is — in fact, you know, The Sentinel went out of business.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Hmm-mmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  There’s no more Sentinel, either.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No.  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Just recently.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  This year.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And so that part, that’s interesting enough.  The articles.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5857.0,5885.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Did you ever explore, or did anyone ever talk to you about commissioning for the synagogue?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Uh, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No?  Never happened, in Chicago?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  No.  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, this is a problem with composers.  They’re always, you know, talking to me about — that, in America, we have not…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …we never really got to the point of, especially in local things, in a city like Chicago…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …there was never any — even Hugo Weisgall.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  I beg your pardon?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Hugo Weisgall.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Was never commissioned.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Uh-huh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He said, towards the end of his life, that that was one of the greatest points — sore points.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  And he, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Of his life.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5885.0,5929.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  He was, he was so closely connected with Jewish music.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But he still…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  It was never…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  His father was a famous cantor, and there are a lot of things that…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Sure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Dean of the — not dean, but chairman of the faculty…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …which — ipso facto head of…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …head of the school.  Of the cantorial school for all of his, from the day it was founded, until a couple of years ago.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But he said that the most annoying thing, the sorest spot in…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-mmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …was that no synagogue — he used to say, “Could you believe that?  Could you believe?”  Had ever commissioned him to write a service.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And you neither, in Chicago, for example, or anything?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5929.0,5971.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Yeah.  I remember he spoke to me once when he was in Chicago.  And the Chicago Lyric Opera had assist — the Chicago — yeah, Lyric Opera — had commissioned Penderetsky to do a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, that service, in 1976?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  And so, he said, “Why didn’t they come to some American composer?”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eWell, it’s interesting.  You know, the interesting thing about Penderetsky, by the way, he’s one of the three great Polish composers of the century.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Who then?  Ludislovsky?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=5971.0,6000.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  You know, the Chiminofsky, Penderetsky, Ludislovsky — those three.  I think, very important composers.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd I saw Penderetsky conduct one of his works on television.  And what is amazing is that he is left-handed.  There is not a single left-handed professional composer — uh, conductor.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Left-handed.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  And that was the, the odd thing.  And that was the odd thing about Mr. Holland’s Opus, because he was a left-handed conductor, which is — nobody is.  Choral conductors, yes.  But not orchestra conductors.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What did you say?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=6000.0,6043.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  There are, there are left-handed choral conductors.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, choral.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  But the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, but the question is, that’s — you know, I often wonder about that.  I mean, does left-handed mean — are there no left-handed conductors, or are there no conductors who use…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Who conduct with that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …who conduct with the left hand?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  I think that may be more accurate.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  See, he…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  But the interesting thing is…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But the question is, that some people have brought up this whole thing about the business whether there really is, whether it really isn’t possible from training, because of that.  Because the violin — same thing.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Now, a violin…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=6043.0,6075.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Yes.  There are some violins who are tuned backwards, by the way.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But mostly…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  E-A-D-G-F.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But people who play the violin…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …I mean, whether they’re left-handed or right-handed…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …they play the violin as if they’re right, they’re right-handed.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And tame thing — well, no.  I guess, no.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=6075.0,6089.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Yeah.  There is a, a violinist at the University of Wisconsin String Quartet who had his violin tuned backwards, you know, with…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But that’s very rare.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  It’s very rare.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That’s probably the only…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Extremely rare.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBut, as I say, and the interesting thing is, the, I have never come across a left-handed professional orchestra conductor.  And it was interesting to me, for example, at Great Lakes, this Karl Hasseman, who was really one of the finest arrangers — an American.  And when we did some of his arrangements — incidentally, he was the Lucky Strike arranger in the Chicago stations.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=6089.0,6128.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Karl used to do, conduct his, the readings of a, a new work with the left hand.  It was very uncomfortable to play that.  Very uncomfortable to play under that situation.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFrederick Stock had to do it, in a, in a very odd situation.  Hans Lange closed the door on his — Stock’s — right hand.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=6128.0,6154.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  And so, he had to conduct with the left hand for awhile.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, that I’ve heard.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  It was temporary.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But then, when Solti — remember when Solti — this is not that long ago.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, in the ‘70s.  He injured his arm or his shoulder or something.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Like the right arm.  But then he cancelled that Margaret Hillis…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …performance.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Sure.  Yeah.  I remember that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Something in the ‘70s.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah, yeah.  Mmm-hm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But I don’t know.  I’ve always wondered about that.  I forgot to ask you about Donato.  You knew Donato?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=6154.0,6185.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  Oh, yeah.  Tony Donato.  Yeah, I knew him very well.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And he was active locally?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  At, at Northwestern.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  At Northwestern.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  As a matter of fact, he’s one of the people who were kind enough to read through my structure of style anthology, Musical Forms.  And because one of the, the things that the editor of Sonny Bircher wanted was some good, dependable people to read through the book.  And they, he’s, there were about five people.  And he was one of these that read through this.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eTony was a, a, a gifted composer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Mmm-hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  He married the secretary, Howard Hansen’s secretary.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Oh, really?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  Mmm-mmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And it still didn’t — well, that’s interesting.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Come back to Penderetsky.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That was a very strange incident, though.  And it was highly criticized at the time, because it was, it wasn’t just a commission.  It was a commission for the American bicentennial.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yes.  Mmm-hmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=6185.0,6252.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  And everybody asked, what did that have to do with — I mean, if you’re going to commission an opera for, in honor of the American bicentennial…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …why would it not be an American composer?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I don’t know if you heard any…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, yes.  Oh, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …scuttlebutt or other about that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Oh, sure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Well, what was the answer?  What was their, other than…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=6252.0,6269.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  That they, that — I think the, the obvious inference was that they were proceeding on the basis of reputation.  And on the basis of reputation, did this work well?  I don’t think it was a success — from what I heard, I heard the work, you know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I did, too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=6269.0,6286.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  I was not impressed with it at all.  Beautiful orchestration, but…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He shortened it, afterwards, apparently…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  It won’t make any difference.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But plenty of American composers with names…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Uh-huh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …who, and the same thing with even opera composers.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Mmm-hmm.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It was a very strange thing.  And I, I don’t know if it’s ever been heard again after that, but I don’t know.  The opera.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=6286.0,6314.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980/transcript/31479/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"STEIN:  I think it was given, it was given for a Papal audience or something.  But it would not be…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Paradise Lost.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  Yeah.  That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSTEIN:  I, I don’t think it’s a successful work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/40315/file/111980#t=6314.0,6338.112"}]}]}]}