{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/st7dr2pz3h/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Milhaud, Madeleine"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","metadata":[],"provider":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/111/960/small/Milhaud.jpg?1621432287","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - X3094_Madeleine_Milhaud_MASTER.mp4"]},"duration":6302.8595,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/111/960/small/Milhaud.jpg?1621432287","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-milken.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/111/960/original/X3094_Madeleine_Milhaud_MASTER.mp4?1619714528","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":6302.8595,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Madeleine_Milhaud_interview [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: If necessary, I will leave the book open at this page.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]:  No because it's only written here. It was interesting because it was one of the last works of Milhaud in fact. It was asked by a foundation in America, who was interested in…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Commissioned by Bremer Foundation.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: I don’t know that foundation, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: [SOUNDS LIKE] Cummings.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Is there a word called for liturgy?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yes, liturgy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=16.0,43.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Because they were interested in the liturgy of the South of France.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: The, which liturgy? The Jewish liturgy, the Hebrew liturgy?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Which is very special, and Milhaud wrote a quartet in quoting all the tunes that he knew, which were relating with that, uh, \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: From the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Absolutely with that liturgy.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: The Hebrew liturgy. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Absolutely. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: And when, when did that string quartet…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: And it was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: '73.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=43.0,71.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Shortly before Milhaud’s death. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING]: Essex. So, you should…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: And I see, I see that it is commissioned by the Bremer, I don't know that foundation.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: No, but it’s interesting because, in fact, it’s practically when Milhaud died in '74.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: And that work…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: '73.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: And it was…  \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: '73, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: And it was a quartet, if you can read that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=71.0,96.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: Hmm, yeah \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: The name on the….\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: the people who did the first performance were Adath..\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: -- Oh, Adath Jeshurun, that's the name of a...\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: [OVERLAPPING] String quartet.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: well, this is called the Adath Jeshurun string quartet. Now, Adath Jeshurun is a common name of, you know, many synagogues have that name.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e MADELEINE MILHAUD: [OVERLAPPING] No, it's, it's, it's funny because.. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: See, but this is some, string quartet adopted the name, New York in '75. So, we'll have to look into that and maybe, maybe record the piece. You see.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING]: Yeah, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=96.0,124.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: And I realize I forgot that…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Well, it was the best moment.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Madame, this, this string quartet, you said contains melodies from, uh, Provençal.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: It was in three towns in the South of France, which were under, uh, I could say, the presence of the Pope. And therefore, there was, uh, usually a young person sent by Rome, and in fact he stayed there, he lived there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=124.0,156.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the Jews were certainly better treated at that moment by them. Of course, there were a lot of taxes in exchange. But, uh, it was very special. Because it was as well—(as) Yiddish is a mixture of Polish, German, Russian, uh, and the Hebrew — the language was at that moment Provençal and, and Hebrew. There is an absolute language of that type in three or four towns—Avignon, Carpentras, Cavaillon–-not in Aix-en-Provence, but it went in a certain sense. And the family, more or less, came from there in fact, at least what is our Milhaud.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=156.0,205.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: And this, this quartet is based upon melodies from…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Suddenly a charming lady from New York was fascinated by, uh, the music, and, uh, of the liturgy of the Comtat Venaissin. And therefore, uh, one day she asked Milhaud to write a piece and so he wrote a quartet with mixing all those things. It happened to be very shortly before he died.  \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: And this liturgy, these liturgical melodies are things that he knew when he was a child from Provence?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=205.0,243.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Well in fact, uh, our grandfather was the person who was at the head of the Temple in the synagogue in Aix-en-Provence. And so, it has always been in the family, more or less, in fact.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Are these, do you know if these melodies…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=243.0,263.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: But the Jews in the South are not like the Jews of Polish, or Russia. They are free. They eat ham. They go to hell, but they eat ham. They take a carriage on Friday night, if necessary. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Do you know, are these melodies still used, or are they extinct? Do they still exist in the communities? The Jewish communities?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=263.0,292.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: I don't think there is anybody left actually, but there is a synagogue, and in fact, uh, Milhaud was asked… no, the former synagogue was sold, and, uh, there was a new one built a few years later. 20 years later. And Milhaud was always asked to, he’s the first person who, I don't know what, how do you do, in the ground, uh…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yeah, lay the cornerstone.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: So that's it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=292.0,326.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: And before that, of course the famous work that we know a little bit about is the Service Sacré of the Hebrew liturgy.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: That is, that is '47.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: 1947? How did it come to be written? I mean how did he and why did he write a big work like that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Well, in fact, it was a commission. It was, uh, Mrs. Herman, I think. Her sister-in-law had commissioned, uh, a work of Ernest Bloch.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: That was her sister-in-law?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: I wouldn't say that she was jealous. But, she had the idea, to…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yeah, because it wasn’t the same synagogue.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: …commission a work to Milhaud…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=326.0,376.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD:\u003c/strong\u003e …later on. And of course it is, uh, the synagogues in, uh, in America are liberal, more than, uh, in some other countries. And that synagogue was a very liberal synagogue in San Francisco. And we were rather friendly with a cantor, Cantor Winder. Therefore, the whole work of Darius was absolutely correct, if we think about the religious habits, of sorts, of conventions. (speaks briefly in French to Karl) conventions how would you say?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=376.0,419.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: Mm hmm. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Habits.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: I'm always surprised when…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Or rules.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: …when the word is the same in English as in French.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: And it was performed?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: It was performed in '47, Milhaud conducted the work in San Francisco.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=419.0,435.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: In the synagogue in, uh…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: In the synagogue.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: In a Sabbath Service or a concert?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Absolutely. Now we have problems of course in the other synagogues, because women don't have the right to sing. Therefore, strangely enough, that work has been performed more often in churches than in synagogues. I would say in French, “tant pis pour eux” (too bad for them).","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=435.0,469.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: It was performed of course with orchestra the first time?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: In Paris? \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: No in, in San Francisco.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: No, no, no in San Francisco.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: With orchestra or with organ?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Because...\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: With a full symphony orchestra?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: I don’t think it has been given in New York.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN OR KARL RICKENBACHER: No, but in San Francisco. In the premier. The premier was with an orchestra…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=469.0,489.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Yes, definitely, in '47 I think.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: They had an orchestra in…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Orchestra, chorus, and choir of the Temple so I think, uh, there was a chorus from Berkeley or something of that sort.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: At that time…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=489.0,509.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: But, of course, it was a liberal synagogue. The services were in, uh, in English. For us, it was quite surprising, because we were not used to that, in Europe in fact.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: As a matter of fact, it's even more…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Well actually, there are few synagogues, but I don't think there are more than two in Paris, I don't think so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=509.0,536.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: There was a Cantor in Paris in the liberal, uh, Katzman, Emil Katzman, do you know that name?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: I don't think I know him. I know the Rabbi Farhi, Boulogne even. I don't know the others…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: That was the…I forget where it was.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Cantor Rinder was extremely dear, and delightful man.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Absolutely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=536.0,558.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: And, um, at that time, the service. Was it for Friday night or for Saturday morning?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Was what?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Friday night, or Saturday morning?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: I don't think, um, you know I don’t think they used it, uh, very often during the service.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: But you see the publication says.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: It was a concert in fact.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yeah, but originally it was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: But in fact, I'm not quite sure that they have used the service following…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=558.0,589.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: They do, actually, they do, but with organ. With the organ part.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Perhaps. Perhaps.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yeah, oh, sure. Occasionally they will do, for example, they…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Occasionally they will do it. Absolutely, absolutely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=589.0,604.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: Do you know if he added, in other words….\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: But we had stories about women singing in temples for the centennial of the synagogue in Narcy. The Cantor who knew the words said, uh, I leave if you don’t do it, so they did it. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: He, he pressed them to do it, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: So, you see what one has to do, all those thing?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: But did they do it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: They did it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: They did it. With, with the women, with women in the choir.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: With women, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=604.0,638.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: Actually, the publication is for, for Samedi matin for, for Saturday morning service.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Yes, Saturday morning.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: But, uh, then it says, there was, it looks like there's something added for Friday. For Friday night.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: There’s something for children and organ, for Friday night, yes, I think.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: That was originally for children?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: I will tell you shortly in a moment, that, if you are interested.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: I am, because I know there is something for children, but I didn't know if that's part of the same.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Yes, there is a work for children.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: And it's included in the whole…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=638.0,670.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Absolutely. But there are many songs that Milhaud set to music. And very, very, very young he did. In fact, when he came back from Brazil in 1918.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: He composed a song translated by Paul Claudel, on the boat.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: And that’s in French, or?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: These works..\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: In French.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN [OVERLAPPING]: In French.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: …published, some, God knows when.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Of course, he was in Brazil as secretary of, uh, Paul Claudel in Brazil. He went to Brazil with Paul Claudel.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: He went to Brazil in 1917 with Claudel, yes. In fact, is what you could call, actually, uh, cultural attaché. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yeah. Cultural attaché.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: In fact, he organized concerts of music, in order to have money for the allies. Because it was during the first war. And this type of things. And, I know at the same time, uh, he would, uh, write a few letters for Claudel but, in fact…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: And this song, you said that he set to some Catholic…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=670.0,752.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD:\u003c/strong\u003e But much later, I think it was in 1950-something that he received a visit of a monk who was in Oregon, at Mount Angel, and that man asked Milhaud to write a mass, and so he said that he could not.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=752.0,778.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER:\u003c/strong\u003e The Gregorian chant.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=778.0,808.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. And so after that, Darius said, listen, we have a common field, in fact – the psalms of David. I will write a psalm, you will sing the Gregorian, I write a second psalm. He wrote three, and three times, it's mixed with the Gregorian, uh, that is interesting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=808.0,835.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: Very. The language of the, in San Francisco, the Service Sacré – when Rinder did it, of course, in the choir, it was all in Hebrew?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: But then it was published in French as well.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Well, in fact, there are two, it is necessary to have it in French also, in fact.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Did Darius speak Hebrew?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: No. And my father-in-law who was President of the Consistory never spoke a word of Hebrew. I never, I never knew if he understood, what the prayers, or what…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: What he was composing.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: I never asked.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Your father was head of the Consistoire?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=835.0,874.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: No, my father-in-law.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Your father-in-law.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: We were first cousins, Milhaud and myself. So, that's the same family. I’m called Milhaud Milhaud.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: [OVERLAPPING]: So somebody wrote, somebody wrote the text phonetically.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Who knows.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Perhaps he worked with Rinder, with Ruben Rinder?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: I beg your pardon?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: The cantor, Rinder. Of, what is it? Emanuel? In San Francisco?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=874.0,906.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Temple Emanuel, yes. It's a very, very large temple.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: It’s very large, even now it's a very important temple.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: He was very charming, a young rabbi. It was, for us, rather surprising because we were not used to that type of freedom in fact. Which is extremely interesting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=906.0,926.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: But he collaborated during the, uh, composing of the work. The rabbi came to…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: No, absolutely not. But Darius, we spoke, we were very friendly with the Cantor. “No,” Darius says, “a work like that, uh, is absolutely correct, and there's no fantasy.” In fact, if you want to write songs with religious, uh, feeling, you are free to do it as you wish. There are some cases where you have to be, follow…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Strict, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Has it been performed in French?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=926.0,964.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Listen, I've heard it, uh, several times, but always in churches.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: And they do it in French?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: I'm sorry, no, sometimes in Hebrew.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: In church? At a concert?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=964.0,977.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Yes, and the, in fact, they just recorded with the organ. In fact, in the cathedral in Aix-en-Provence.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: In Hebrew.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=977.0,990.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Listen if you want me to tell you a story, somebody organized a festival in Strasbourg of, uh, ecumenical music with, uh, Bach in the temple, Protestant, where Schweitzer played on the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: The organ.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=990.0,1016.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD:\u003c/strong\u003e The Verdi Requiem in the cathedral. And the sacred service at the temple, quite new, because the Germans had burned the other one during the war. And when we arrived, they said to Darius uh, “there is a problem. Women sing, and they don't have the right to sing in the temple. And so can we try with children?” Said Darius, “I doubt but, let's try. No, it is impossible.” And as Milhaud had good disposition, he said, “my dear friends, thank you very much, I go back home.” And so the man who had organized, said, “no, I don't want to ruin my whole work.” And he went to see the bishop, Monsignor Ousch at the cathedral, who said, uh, “I will manage.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1016.0,1085.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD (CONTINUED): So he visited the rabbi, and said, “listen, do you think that I am satisfied to open the doors of the cathedral to a work so theatrical as the Requiem of Verdi.” But, uh, music elevates the souls. And thanks to that visit of that bishop, one gave, the Service Sacré in Strasbourg. Of course, there was nobody related to the consistoire. Somebody had a wife with flu, another one a baby was born, but, in any case, it was given.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1085.0,1133.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: In the synagogue?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: That's a wonderful story.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: You know what is very funny, is that my grandson in Paris, whose mother is Catholic, had decided to do his Bar Mitzvah, and so it was in a liberal synagogue that he did that, and the Cantor of Strasbourg, happened to be--well that was 30 years later--to be there, and he sang a part of this, in memory of what happened in Strasbourg. It was interesting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1133.0,1173.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: I wonder who, the only Cantor name I know from Strasbourg was a, a Marcel, Marcel Lorand, I think. That wouldn't be the name of the Cantor in Strasbourg?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Of what?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: The Cantor.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Oh, the Cantor…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: In Strasbourg.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: I never knew.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: No, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: I don't even have to forget.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: When he was composing this piece, how long did it take? How long did he spend composing it? The Service Sacré. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: The work?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Uh, how long it lasts?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: No, how long did he spend composing it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1173.0,1219.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: To write it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Oh, I don't know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: I mean, the commission was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: He wrote, uh, Milhaud wrote, uh, rather fast. When he had thought about the work for a certain time, and sometimes this would last a certain time, sometimes long time. But when it was right, he could write them very fast.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1219.0,1248.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: That is proved by the number of works he has written.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: That, he would tell you, that if Mozart had lived as long as he did, he would have written even hundred works more.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Well Mozart almost wrote as many works as Milhaud, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: And then if you count the number of opus: incidental music, music for the movies, a little piece for the birthday of this, and this, or that, \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER:  They’re all opus.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: …you have less opus. The trouble with opus, is that everything is counted.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yeah. But also you have got…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Even if it is just a line.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1248.0,1288.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: Yeah, but you have also got a complete opera in one opus. Which is a little longer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: [INAUDIBLE FRENCH] And the little symphonies would last three minutes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: And the, the opera David, for example.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: David is a real opera. No, there's nothing, absolutely no religious music in it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: It’s free, free composition.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: There is dodecaphonic scale, though.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: For the devil, if I'm not mistaken.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1288.0,1326.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: No, it's when Milhaud, uh, Milhaud found out that, uh, there was, in Mozart, in Don Giovanni, when the commandeur [commander], at the end of the work, appears, that he comes on a scale, which is dodecaphonic.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: But the 12 notes are used.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1326.0,1347.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: But so that when, uh, in the opera David, when the prophet Nathan comes and he will punish David, because, uh, he lives with Bathsheba, and Bathsheba’s husband has been sent to a place [to war], rather dangerous, that he would not come back, but Darius used the same scale. But he wrote it, he printed it in the score. It was very honest.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1347.0,1380.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: There's the famous discussion with Malipiero about this.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: [INAUDIBLE FRENCH] That's rather interesting, because in fact…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: He didn't know, Malipiero didn't know that the, a motif like this exists in Don Giovanni.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: David was performed in…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: David ought to have been performed in a new theater that they were willing to build, uh, in Jerusalem, and they didn't have the money for that. So it was given in a concert form, a concert.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1380.0,1414.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: But still in Jerusalem.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: In Jerusalem. Then it was given, after that, uh, in Milano in La Scala. It was given partly, uh, in Brussels, Theatre La Monnaie, and it was given, at the Hollywood Bowl in Los Angeles, twenty thousand people. It worked very well over there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Who conducted it there?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: I don't remember.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Caio Lynch (SP?) probably.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: I don’t think so. I don't remember who was, uh, conducting that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1414.0,1450.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: When did you come to California? You came right after the war? Or during the war?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: No, absolutely not. We arrived in, uh, in, uh, August of 1940.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: You embarked from this building where we are staying right now. You lived here, in, uh, this house before you went to California.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: No, we went to the South of France, in fact, uh, we, because in fact we went every summer to Aix-en-Provence. So we were, in '39, in Aix-en-Provence, so we stayed until Paris was invaded, and so, in fact, we had no choice.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1450.0,1501.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: So you never came back before you went to America?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Absolutely not. We came back, yes, we came back for a few days in, uh, Paris, before we left in '40, because Milhaud’s Opera was given, Médéa was given at the opera house. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Ah. Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: But when it was given, we heard, uh, the, the, the business against the planes. In a very short period, the following day after the first performance, uh, we had to go away. Because, in fact, we knew that the Germans had, were already in Belgium. So we didn't stay for the other performances.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: So Paris was already under siege?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1501.0,1544.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Milhaud was in very bad health, and, uh, couldn't walk very easily. It was very difficult idea that he would hide, uh, or run away, it was impossible.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: But who's idea was it to go to California?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1544.0,1561.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD:\u003c/strong\u003e In fact, it was not our idea. Milhaud had written, had a commission for, by Chicago by the way, by the orchestra. And he wrote his first symphony, and they invited him to go and conduct it. So he said that he would not leave France, because, stay, he decided to stay in France, as there was a war. But he had a letter of invitation, in fact. And so when we decided to try to leave, that letter was showed to the council in Marseilles. It helped.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1561.0,1604.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD (CONTINUED): And also that man perfectly understood the situation – he was a very extraordinary man. So we took, uh, our tickets on the plane from Lisbon and I drove until the Spanish border, in fact. But when we arrived in Lisbon, we found out that our tickets had no value, because French money had no value. So we had to wait, without any money, in Lisbon for a miracle. Then Darius was able to, uh, then he wrote a few letters to the States to some friends.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1604.0,1646.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD (CONTINUED): In New York, as well as Pierre Monteux, who was a conductor in San Francisco. And Pierre, uh, went to visit the President of, uh, Mills College, a girls college in Oakland. So I'm going to shorten that whole story. That means that when we took the boat to go to New York—when we were able financially to do so. When Milhaud received a telegram from Mills College inviting him to go and teach, uh, composition. Because when Monteux saw that the president, Dr. Rhinehart, it happened that, uh, the man who taught composition had died, and she was looking for a man from Europe, who had already a certain reputation. Therefore, we knew, when we took the boat, that we were going to go to California. So that was rather miraculous.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1646.0,1715.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: And you stayed at Mills College for a long time. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: 1972.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: ‘72.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: That means that from ’47 we spent one year in France and one year in the States. But it was a long stay. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yes, 25 years. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMEDELEINE MILHAUD: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: And when you came back here in this house, the flat was literally empty.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1715.0,1741.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD:  Yes, absolutely. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Eventually some of the furniture and your belongings were discovered?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: The janitor had shoop. But you see, that was the problem during the war. That janitor would have done the worst things in the world, because she was a nasty woman. On the other hand, the servant, the former servant of my mother in law, uh, hid my mother, my aunt and my cousin when the Germans came into Aix-en-Provence. She could have been shot.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yeah, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1741.0,1782.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: She managed to find a place in the mountains for those three women, so you had this and you had that, you know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: And also during that time you were in Aspen, in the summers. Because actually, that’s where I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Aspen, it must have been, over 20 years ago.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yeah. Well, I mean, I met your husband there in the 60's.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Did you, did you meet Milhaud in Aspen?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: In ’65, ’66, ’67, those years. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: What, uh, what were you studying?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: I was studying piano and conducting. But, you know…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1782.0,1816.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: With, with Mrs…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Marcus, Adele Marcus. Remember her?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Yes. Oh, yes, Aspen was rather interesting.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Those were the beautiful days in Aspen.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Yes, absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Before it became so commercial.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1816.0,1831.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD:\u003c/strong\u003e The first years of Aspen was a work of pioneer. It was extraordinary. In fact, uh, first of all, there were no names on the streets in Aspen. The butcher loved to fish, but he didn't like fish. So he brought me about, uh, trouts about, uh, every week, I had trouts. It's a, a gift. The woman of the grocery brought me sweet peas. They were, and of course, what we did for the welfare of the school was their school. No, it was a very interesting thing. I don't think it could happen any place than in America, that type of feeling. It didn't last forever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1831.0,1874.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: No. I mean it’s still Aspen.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Yes, but it grew.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: It grew too, I think too much.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Yes, absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: In those days, in the years, when uh, when the 60s, well, I mean, your husband was the composer there. There were some people who studied, there were many Juilliard students who came in the summer, weren’t there?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: That we had Juilliard, and, uh, we had very good students in a way.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1874.0,1903.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: In fact, and very good teachers. And the teachers were supposed to, to participate to the, to the performances, to the concerts, in fact. We were supposed to work there. But the day, I went to the bank, uh, to, to check, to cash a check, and that they asked me my identification. And so, I came back home and I said, “it’s finished.” Because never it would have happened for about ten years. And then it grew, and you suddenly became a stranger.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: I mean, because, that’s right. Even in the early 60's, nobody locked their door.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: In fact, people didn’t have a key to their house.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1903.0,1947.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: No but, I produced, I don't know how many, 15 or 20 operas in Aspen with the students. I never had to buy or to rent a costume. I put, I brought all the, even silverware and everything. It was their thing. That is fascinating, in a way. But it can't last.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Until what year did you produce?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: God knows, I knew we were there…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Until ’70, ’72?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: No. In fact, I think from 50 to, to 70. There, we were made to stop because Milhaud, it was too high for Milhaud. We couldn't…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1947.0,1990.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD:\u003c/strong\u003e I produced one-act operas. And I had an evening with Stravinsky, evening with [INAUDIBLE NAME] Classical works and also modern works -- The Diary of A Madman, by Humphrey Searle, the Englishman. No, I had decided to perform one-act operas because I think that, uh, with students, they could study different styles. It was better to have three one-act operas than a Puccini. In fact, I don't think I was wrong there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=1990.0,2104.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN:  I want to turn to another piece called The Genesis Suite, I think it was also in ’47 or ’49 or something like that, there was a performance of a piece in Los Angeles.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Uh, what?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Los Angeles. That had seven composers. And it was called Genesis Suite. It had seven movements. Each movement was written by a different composer. Your husband wrote the piece called “Cain And Abel.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2104.0,2084.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Wasn't it written for the, uh, recording?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Well, yes. There was one performance, a live performance at the Wilshire Boulevard.. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: It wasn't the, the elephant, the Polka for the Elephants of Stravinsky, no?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: No, but Stravinsky was one of the composers.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: But not an elephant.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Stravinsky wrote “Tower of Babel.” The man whose idea it was was named Shilkret. Nathan Shilkret. And he invited six other composers. And, actually, he also invited some people who didn’t agree like Bartok, and people like that, and Copeland. But the ones who agreed to each write one movement were Milhaud, Stravinsky…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2084.0,2136.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: There was another composer, I think there were three.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN OR KARL RICKENBACHER: There were seven. Six plus (Shilkret) himself.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Seven?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN [OVERLAPPING]: Toch, Tansman, Schoenberg, Castelnuovo-Tedesco, and Milhaud. That was seven with Shilkret - each one took a different story. You know, Milhaud…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: But I never heard that Bela, I don't think, I don't think even that I have the score.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Nobody has the score except me.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: (INAUDIBLE)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: I have the score. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: You have one?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: I’m the only one. I will tell you why, because…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2136.0,2170.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: No that’s (INAUDIBLE)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: It was destroyed.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: If you would make a copy.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN [OVERLAPPING]: I'm going to give it to you, of course I plan to.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Could you have a copy, no, I'm very, I'm very interested. Because I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN [OVERLAPPING]: It's being engraved now. It had to be reconstructed.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: For me, it is a mystery, in fact.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2170.0,2183.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eNEIL LEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e It was lost in a fire. Because the man who commissioned the other composers, Nathan Shilkret, paid for it himself. It was a crazy idea, you know? And even the newspapers, after the performance said this was a bizarre idea, but he wanted to do this. He paid each composer $300. But, for that, he owned the music. I mean it’s a short piece, each one is about five, six minutes, you know, with orchestra and big chorus, huge, very, very large chorus. And um…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2183.0,2216.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: And who wrote the text?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: The text is, I don’t know, we don’t know. Shilkret probably wrote most of the text himself. It was narrated by a very Hollywoodish Hollywood actor named Edward Arnold, and um, most of it comes right from the bible itself, you see. And, so, afterwards, you’re quite right, it was recorded two days later in a studio. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: That's what I meant.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2216.0,2240.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: That’s right. It was a limited recording, and it doesn't exist.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: We never had the recording.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: No, there are probably five…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: …and I don’t have the music. And I don't have this mentioned in the catalogue.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: It's not mentioned in the catalogue?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: It should be mentioned. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER:  So this is an extraordinary story.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2240.0,2260.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eNEIL LEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Because we are recording it. Because what happened was, I knew about the piece, and I knew from Shilkret’s nephew. Shilkret’s nephew has one of the only surviving sets of recordings of five or six or seven discs, but of course they are 78s. To show you how old they are, they’re not even black, they’re red. You know there was a period of time when they issued red records, and it’s very dated. That was the end of it because it didn’t receive good, it was considered a very Hollywood type of thing. The whole ideas was considered kind of kitsch. Very typical of Los Angeles, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2260.0,2301.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eNEIL LEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e And then Shilkret took all the music back because he paid for it, so it belonged to him, and there was a fire in his house, and it was all destroyed. That’s why you don’t have the score. However, fortunately, he owned the copyright because he paid for it. So, in those days, you don’t have to now, but in those days, in order to register the copyright with the Library of Congress, you had to send in a score. You couldn’t just register without a score. So he sent a condensed score, it’s not the full score. It’s, what do you call, it’s not exactly a sketch. It’s more than a sketch, but more like a chart, like they use in film, they don’t use full scores, you know? But it’s enough to reconstruct it, and we found it in Washington, in the Library of Congress, in the warehouse. Between that and the recording, with the take down, we reconstruct the whole thing, and it’s being engraved and reconstructed now. And in a few weeks, I will have the whole score and I will send it to you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2301.0,2358.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Et bien! Je le prends. (Well, I’ll take it)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: And we are going to record it in Berlin.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: I'd love to. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: In uh… but it's a very interesting work, actually.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: How interesting to know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: It is.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Well…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2358.0,2378.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: What about, there's a piece called ‘Cantata from Proverbs.’ Texts of the book of Proverbs in the Bible.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: About what?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Proverbs. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: A biblical Book of Proverbs. It’s called Cantata from Proverbs. I don’t know how to say the Book of Proverbs…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: (Inaudible French)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Proverbs. I think it’s the same….\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: (Inaudible French)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: It's highly liturgical to tell you the truth. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Proverbs is a book in the Old Testament in the Bible.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Oui.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: And Milhaud, I will look under cantatas. It’s a cantata.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: It's for a women's chorus.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER:  For women’s chorus.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2378.0,2420.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Yes, I know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN [OVERLAPPING]: For three instruments or four instruments. Oboe, harp, something like this.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Cantate des Proverbes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Oui. Des Proverbes. It's the same word.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: They are very pretty. It's rather a\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003egood work.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN OR KARL RICKENBACHER: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2420.0,2436.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Absolutely. No but there are many works, you know. Miracle of Faith was written for children, you know, before college, in the States.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Which college?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Absolutely. No, not for, absolutely not for [college]. For a school, uh, with about 12 or 14 [year-olds].\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Tell me about that. Do you know that piece, the Miracle of Faith?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Now what is the title of the work?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2436.0,2463.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Miracle De La Foi, Miracle of Faith. It's for a young boy. It's the story of the kid who is a good liar, what's, what's his name?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Daniel.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: But Milhaud wrote religious works for every religion, although he was a Jewish believer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: There is a work called, Cantate Nuptial, which is a very good work.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Nuptial, yeah, Wedding Cantata.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2463.0,2494.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: A wedding, he wrote it for the anniversary for the wedding of his, uh, parents.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Ah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: The Wedding Cantata is in…?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Milhaud wrote for every religion. Yes, in fact, no. He refused to, to write a Mass. He would not to write that, because he didn't believe in it, in fact. But, uh..","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2494.0,2525.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: But he wrote a text by [Pope] John XXIII.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Well, yes...\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING]: By, by, uh…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: …listen. There is not a non-religious person, or philosopher, who could write a work like the words of John XXIII. There was freedom absolutely in every, every, every scale. You have the right to choose a country where you live, you have the right to choose your religion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2525.0,2558.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: That is the text.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Therefore, when one gave that work in San Francisco, a lady said to Darius, “how did you dare write a work written by a Red Pope?”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: And what did he reply?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: The Devil made him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2558.0,2583.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: But he had to get permission from the Vatican to compose the piece.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Uh, after he had written, uh, yes. In fact, uh, because he picked a Jewish, a Jewish composer, he had to have the right of the Vatican. And also, one doesn't have the right to cut work of a Pope. So it could have lasted for three days in, in fact.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: It was the complete text?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2583.0,2610.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD:\u003c/strong\u003e No, they were extremely generous. They accepted, but they asked, that for the first performance, they would like that, uh, conductor would be Protestant. Like, then the three religions would be represented. And it was even more better, because Madame Celebre [SP?], in fact, was Romanian. Therefore, it was a fourth religion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2610.0,2638.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: As I remember, the conductor was Charles Munch, who was a Protestant.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Because there are few of them.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yeah, you don't have many French conductors who are Protestant.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: I didn’t know Munch was Protestant.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yeah, Munch was Protestant.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2638.0,2654.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Yes, it's true.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: When you say every religion you mean Western religions.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: What about what?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: He didn't compose for Eastern religions, Islam, or…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER (OVERLAPPING): Arabic, no? He didn’t compose for eastern religions like Buddhist, Indian, or Arabic. Islamic. There is no Islamic work, no?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2654.0,2680.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Absolutely not.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: No, and he was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: He'd had enough, with his cantatas, and his uh…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: But it’s probably interesting to know he was a believer who went to the Synagogue every week, didn’t he?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: No. Uh, that he uh, Darius was extremely religious.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2680.0,2700.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: his prayers, daily, I must say, every day.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING]: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: But he didn't have a narrow mind. If it was, he couldn't live with me! \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN OR KARL RICKENBACHER: Yeah, absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Because we lived together for 50 years, without a struggle.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN OR KARL RICKENBACHER: And you can say that you are liberal; you are more liberal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2700.0,2727.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Yes, I am more.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yeah, well of course, I mean liberal and religious are not exclusive.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: But my father came from Aix-en-Provence when he was a young student in law, to study law in Paris. He stayed in Paris. It was, uh, very shortly after the Dreyfus story. Therefore, it's not, it's not very comfortable, especially that the work of the lawyers was not very large-minded in certain way. But we lived in, uh, in an apartment, Rue de la Victoire, which is a very short, charming, narrow street. And I never knew, because my parents were not religious, that there was a greatest temple and synagogue next to, exactly, for, a few feet from there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2727.0,2786.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: It’s one of the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: I never knew.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: …two most famous ones.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Because I went, I went out in this direction and a few steps later, it was there. Very funny in fact. But, uh, you know, works of Catholics, in fact, Milhaud's, uh, greatest collaborator was Paul Claudel.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2786.0,2811.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: Paul Claudel, who was extremely Catholic.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: And every, every time Milhaud needed a work for chorus, Claudel was ready to write it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: It was a very close relationship.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Absolutely, very friendly.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: You are one of the few people who have seen Debussy and still live in the year 2000. You said that Debussy came to collect his daughter from the piano lessons of Margaret Long when you were studying with Margaret Long.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2811.0,2845.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Debussy came here once or twice to fetch her, his little girl, yes. And then I saw him, I heard him once.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: You heard him play, yes?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Yes. He accompanied a singer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: A singer?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2845.0,2862.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Was it's, that is, you can't forget the way he, as I said, I had the impression that he went deeply into the bottom of the thing, what do you call this?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Keyboard.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: As I said, of the keyboard. I had the impression that he went deeper into it. But Darius played viola. In 1917, when Debussy was already very sick, the publisher, uh, knew that Darius had played the sonata, which was a rather lost works of Debussy, for viola, harp and piano. And he asked him to go to Debussy to have the tempis.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2862.0,2915.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: About the tempi?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Tempi. And Debussy was extremely sick. He played the work twice, and then Darius didn't tell him that he was a composer. He had already finished Les Choëphores..\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: …and a few works which were very important. And Darius would add sometimes, “my students would not be so shy in the same occasions.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2915.0,2942.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: He had many students, yes? Your husband, and over the years in California he had a lot of students at Mills College. He was there a long time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Milhaud had many students of composition.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: But I think, I don’t know if he…the jazz musician, Dave Brubeck?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Of course.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Can you tell us about that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2942.0,2962.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, the worst, perhaps, as a composer at that time, at least. No, the, they were, immediately after the war, there were students, uh, young men who had been, their studies had been interrupted by the war, and who had the privilege of the Bill Of Rights. That means that their studies could be paid by the government. And they, four, uh, a bunch of them, uh, four or five young men, uh, came to Mills College to follow Milhaud's classes, and amongst them was Brubeck.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=2962.0,3002.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD (CONTINUED): It happened was that Brubeck's brother was assistant in the music department at Mills. His mother was a music teacher, classical. I think there was another member of the family. And then Dave, absolutely, in fact, was absolutely blocked. And, uh, Darius one day told him, uh, “what do you like?” “Oh,” he said, “play boogie woogie” and he said, “all right, play one.” And so, when he heard it he said, “listen. This is your path. But study your technique in order to be free.” That, he didn't forget. That's what happened, and so actually, he's a marvelous jazz.., very decent, very, doesn't take drugs, he doesn't like men, he's married. And when he comes onto the stage, I had the impression it is jazz of the Queen of England, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3002.0,3072.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: It's classical jazz.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: A little, in a certain way. Well, his son, his son is called “Darius.” Absolutely, he's a very charming boy who lives in South Africa. And I had a visit of the last son, uh, about a week ago, in fact.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Oh, really?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3072.0,3096.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: How about other students? Any other students that went on to important positions?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e MADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Good gracious, other students. There were so many, in fact.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Well one of them…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Yes, there is Will Bolcom, who has a great, uh, good career.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yeah, Bolcom.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Yes, I think he's, uh, one of them. There was a boy called Leland Smith, who was, uh, the, the father of all the computers in Stanford. In fact, uh, Boulez bought the computer there for L’IRCAM.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3096.0,3136.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: Ah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: In the years at Aspen, he also had students who were only studying for the summer, and then they came from…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Some of them, uh, would continue, but as, very often they only came for four weeks, or, you know, summer sessions are very…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Four weeks or eight weeks, either one.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: It's very difficult to know the students. In fact, one doesn't know what they did before, what they do afterwards. Not very easy.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: But there were a lot of people from, I think, oh my goodness, most of the composers from Juilliard. During the year, who were studying with Sessions….\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: And sometimes the teachers of Juilliard came to Aspen, so in any case they continued their work with them. Some, certainly. Yes, there was Charles Jones, who was a…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3136.0,3186.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN [OVERLAPPING]: That's right, I remember.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Charles, Charles, uh, he taught until he was 84 years old. They kept him at Juilliard for years.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: That's an, unfortunately, a forgotten name, Charles Jones. I had a class in orchestration with Charles Jones, I remember that now. Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Those were the days when…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: I saw a person who taught in Aspen, Roman Totenberg, the violinist.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Who played the violin the wrong way around.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3186.0,3215.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Yes, he played very well.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: What do you mean? He played with the rest on the other side?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yes. Totenberg played the violin. He had the bow in the left hand and played with the right hand.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: It’s possible.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yeah, yeah. It would be interesting to know what happened with the Groupe Des Six during the war? Were they, because Milhaud was the only one in exile.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3215.0,3240.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Well, uh, in fact, nothing really happened to Durey. He was in the south of France, he stayed there. (inaudible French), in fact.  \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: In the free south of France?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: No, they stayed, there was nothing, and Honegger was Swiss.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: He went back to Switzerland?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3240.0,3264.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: He stayed in Paris?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: And Poulenc was in Paris?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Yes, but Poulenc was, uh, very decent, that boy. We accepted invitation, uh, by, uh, to go to Vienna during the occupation. That was difficult. He was performed enormously.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: And Auric?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Auric was decent, I think.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3264.0,3298.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: He was here in Paris.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELIENE MILHAUD: He was, absolutely. They all stayed there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: The closest, probably you can say the closest friend, or, they were not friends.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Do you mean it, uh, uh, Le Groupe des Six?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Oh, they were friendly.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Friendly, yes, but they were not really friends. You cannot say friends.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3298.0,3315.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: I wouldn't say that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: The closest to Darius was probably Auric.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: No?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Absolutely. No, Honegger was a very good, uh, comarade [friend]. He was into conservatoire with Milhaud, at the same time as Milhaud…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Honegger?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Yes, absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN OR KARL RICKENBACHER: So, Les Six, just to…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3315.0,3334.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Except I met her, I knew Honegger when I was 12 years old, or 14 years old.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Through Darius?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Yes, because they stopped at the window at the place where we lived. When they came back from the conservatoire, they knocked at the window. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: To see their little cousin.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Such conversation…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: So we’re speaking about…Honeggar…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Honeggar.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Milhaud.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Milhaud.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3334.0,3360.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Auric was much younger. Auric and Poulenc were a little younger, you see because, in fact, Honeggar, Darius, and Talleferre born all three in 1892.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: ’92.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: And, Auric and Poulenc and were born five, six years later. That makes a difference.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3360.0,3385.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: That’s four. And who are the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: We have to start again. Let’s start with Milhaud. To name the six. Milhaud, Poulenc, Honegger, Germaine Tailleferre, a lady…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: And Durey.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Durey. And Auric. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Georges Auric. Who died the last?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: (INAUDIBLE) Tailleferre. Honegger and Milhaud, born the same year. And Auric and Poulenc, five, six years later.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: 1899.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: And Durey much older.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: I lost my way in Paris, yesterday night, and I was standing in front of a house where it said, ‘in this house, Poulenc was born in ’99.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3385.0,3430.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: That’s it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yup.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: He was younger than I was?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: No. ’99….\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: ’99? Oh, excuse me. No. Older.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Three years. I want to ask you about what was it like, when you came back. Well, let me backtrack. Before you left Paris. Before you left France. Before the war. The beginning. Both before the German invasion and occupation and even after. I mean there were many French artists, French musicians. Let’s confine ourselves to music in this case, who either were collaborators with Vichy or pretended not to be but were certainly no friends of Jewish colleagues, former Jewish colleagues. I mean what was, what was your experience?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3430.0,3491.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Oh, you know, I don't know, uh, any Jewish composer in France.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Of French nationality.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Uh, but, of course Ernst Bloch.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yeah, but he was Swiss.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: But a very few… \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: In that time, apart from Milhaud. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: In fact, the Jewish composers I knew were German. Kurt Weill.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN [OVERLAPPING]: But in France?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: German Jews…there was a man who was working at this synagogue, I don't remember his name. No, but in fact, I don't know…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3491.0,3533.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN [OVERLAPPING]: I know, wait a minute, it’s going to come to me.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Well, never mind. But in any case, there, there were no Jewish, uh, composers.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: The one you were talking about was a liturgical composer?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: He came from…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: It's very strange but it's a fact.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yeah, yeah. You’re absolutely right. In Austria and in Germany…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3533.0,3555.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: There was, of course, Schoenberg, you had Tansman.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: You had Krenek. There were many. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN [OVERLAPPING]: Well there were many.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Karol Rathaus.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: A Polish, in fact.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: But in the 19th century of course it was the opposite. I mean, think of all the Jewish composers in Paris, Halevy.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: These were men, but nobody knows who Lazar Russe [SP?] is, which was a composer. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Offenbach. All these people. In fact, they were even involved in the consistoire. But the only one, I can’t think of any, can you…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3555.0,3595.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER:\u003c/strong\u003e But what you mean to ask, I think it’s a very interesting question that actually you were faced, you can say for the second time, you already experienced the German attack on to Paris in the first World War. You told me you couldn’t go to the funeral of Debussy. Your mother did not allow you to go, because..\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e1:","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3595.0,3618.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: No, because it was, uh, shortly before the end of the war, at least three months, or four months before.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING]: The first war.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Uh, that big gun, and there were bombs about every 20 minutes in Paris.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: By the Germans?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: By the Germans. It was called the “Grosse Bertha.” In fact, it frightened nobody. Yes, it's true, because in fact, I perfectly realized that there would be nobody at the funeral of Debussy. But my…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3618.0,3652.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING]: Because people were afraid people to go…?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: No, you have a perfectly good memory, it’s true that she didn’t want me to go.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: And then for the second time you were faced to have to leave, literally leave, from one day to the next. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: But there was no, no other choice, because oh, you suddenly decide to sacrifice yourself and be, but we knew quite well what happened to the Jews in, uh, in Germany. No, we didn't know. Of course, nobody knew what could be, uh, the Dachau. But, uh, we knew that they could be put in jail, in fact.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Was there any attempt by colleagues of Darius Milhaud to persuade him to stay in France?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3652.0,3707.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eNEIL LEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean there were French, there were many Jewish musicians, not composers. That’s interesting, I can’t think of another composer at that time. Performers, yes, whether they were French or not, living here, Wanda Landowvska …","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3707.0,3728.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: No, but they were enormously, in fact, there were a great number of, uh, musicians, Jewish musicians, in, in Germany.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: And in France, too.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: But, but in France too, in Paris anyway.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: But the number of musicians, also players, not only composers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3728.0,3747.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING]: Yes, performers.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Did he have any contact with, there were certain performers who not only stayed but were accepted, in many cases collaborated, with Vichy. And I’m wondering whether Milhaud knew any of these people, such as…. there’s always been a big question about Katazsu [sp?], for example, or Cortot, Alfred Cortot the pianist.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3747.0,3779.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD:\u003c/strong\u003e That Cortot was not pleasant. And in fact, he didn't behave anyway. It's funny because I'm very friendly with a cousin of his, and who is not at all proud to be called Cortot. And as, fortunately for him, he's a cousin of Varèse. He feels better.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3779.0,3803.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: Cortot served time in prison after the war, I believe.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Cortot has been a rather, a bad man. But I don't think, uh, I think that the, the musicians have been extremely decent, in general, uh, during the war. In fact, they decided to have a club called Gloxinia which is the name of a flower. And it is a name of a song of Auric, but only people who had been rather decent during the war. It was a rather closed club.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3803.0,3841.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: After the war there was…?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Yes. And they met a few, five times a year, have dinner together, so. And as soon as we came back, they decided that Milhaud would be president of the, the club, which is sort of, uh, it was very marvelous for them, a sort of thing to try to forget, in fact. This apartment has been paid during the whole war by, uh, Désormière the conductor.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Roger Désormière.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: So to be sure that we would find it when we came back.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3841.0,3876.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: That was fantastic.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Oh, I tell you those things were sort of…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: When did you come back to this apartment after the war?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: We came back in '47. We couldn't come back before because Milhaud couldn't walk, and, uh, I wasn't sure to have gas for the car. We could pay in dollar, but we couldn't have the gas. So we had to wait. So he was invited to teach at the conservatoire. And he accepted, uh, every other year.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3876.0,3913.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: But he was teaching here? Behind (INAUDIBLE)\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Yes. But he taught at Mills also in the house.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: It would be interesting as we have spoken about Debussy, if you would tell your last meeting with Maurice Ravel in Lausanne. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Well, it was, uh, rather tragic, because he was very sick.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: He had, what kind of an illness did he have?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: It was something rather exceptional, this sort of, with the brain which, uh, narrows in a certain way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3913.0,3947.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: Was disintegrating? The brain was disintegrating?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Absolutely. But he was perfectly, uh, conscious.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: …aware of this?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: He was aware, uh, at least when we saw him in Switzerland. Uh, he was aware of, uh, how the people in the same hospital were.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Hiding before, and behind trees. And aware, also, that he couldn't make his necktie in the morning. Which was, it has been rather tragic. It's very funny because in fact, uh, Milhaud’s friends, musicians of his generation, would've preferred that Darius would always compose at the Conservatoire, in fact.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3947.0,3996.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: But, it's older composers who were interested. Ravel, Satie, Dukas, Roselle, Koechlin for instance.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: But five or six of them…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Of the previous generation.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Absolutely. That, that's rather interesting.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING]: Well there is the famous story that Ravel fought to have a piece by Milhaud performed.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: But Ravel was extraordinary, because he, he knew that Darius did not like all his works.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: He was not a fan of Ravel's.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=3996.0,4037.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD:\u003c/strong\u003e And, uh, people were ready to tell him, “but I don't know why you defend Milhaud's music because.” But he said, “he's perfectly right.” All right. And one day, there was a committee and one decided to take Milhaud in the committee, and somebody said to Ravel, why do you push Darius Milhaud, you don't know that, etc. And he answered, listen, if you don't take Milhaud, I'll leave the committee. Ça cette extraodinaire.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4037.0,4070.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING]: That's a great man. It’s the opposite of being fanatic.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: It is extraordinary.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: That shows what a great man he was.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: What a sad way to go. To be, to realize that…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4070.0,4086.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD:\u003c/strong\u003e But the sickness has been horrible, I must say. And it began, uh, Darius had decided to have a little book for his son, with, uh, little pieces written by composers, and after a concert he came and asked Ravel to sign it, and he took the pen and he said, “I can't.” He couldn't, uh, write his name. That's bad.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4086.0,4113.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: And of course, you have to mention Erik Satie, to whom you were very close to.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: It was Satie, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Who collected handkerchiefs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Oh, he collected everything. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Everything, huh?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4113.0,4127.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD:\u003c/strong\u003e But, uh, yes, I think Satie, uh, he had the greatest, he had a great respect for Darius, because Darius had even, was not at all interested in if the audience, if the critics liked or disliked his works. And so, as one who was surrounded by young people who were in the contrary, old. Satie had for that, uh, he, he was pleased to find a young man who had the same ideas as he did, in a way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4127.0,4165.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD (CONTINUED): Once he was interested by a critic. He wrote an article so extraordinary, concerning his music, that he went to visit a certain Mr. Auric, he asked to meet him, and it was Georges who said, yes, “I wrote that article.” He was 14 years old.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: 14 years old?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Absolutely. That's interesting. So, what can I say else?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Say something about Stravinsky.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Igor.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Igor yeah, who also liked Darius' music.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: I don't think so. I don't know. It doesn’t matter. I don’t think so. We were always fascinated by the, the arrival of the Russian ballet because, in fact, who knew the Russian ballets, if they were not works by Stravinsky?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4165.0,4228.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: Well, there is Ravel, there is Debussy, there is…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: But what?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Daphnis et Chloe.  \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Bon. (INAUDIBLE) And then after that. I'm speaking after, in the,\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003ethe 30s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4228.0,4244.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING]: The original works.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: In the '30s, in the '30s.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: De fallia (Manuel de Falla).\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: (speaking about Manuel de Falla’s El retablo de maese Pedro) L’oritable [the original] was a work, uh, commissioned by the Princesse de Polignac.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4244.0,4255.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: I heard the first performance in her house. Les Malheurs d’Orphée was commissioned by the Princesse de Polignac.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: And, uh, L’éventail de Jeanne was a commission of…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: It was a present.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4255.0,4276.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD:\u003c/strong\u003e Because there was a lady, very charming lady who received, every Wednesdays, uh, musicians and writers. Her husband was a banker, and one day, uh, five or six composers decided to write a piece for her. She was called Jeanne Dubost, and they wrote a piece called L’éventail de Jeanne and it happened that Mr. Rouché, who was the director of the opera, heard that piece and said, “I would like to have a ballet with it.” So they orchestrated, of course Milhaud was furious because he, as he always showed his operas, where they were written. And that they were not performed. He didn't want to be performed for the first time by your polka.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4276.0,4325.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: A little polka movement in the opera.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: In the opera house.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: As his operas were lying in his home, in the drawer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: I must say that they performed afterwards some works (INAUDIBLE) and very well performed.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: But you had the same experience…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Bolivar. Bolivar me dit (Bolivar told me) (INAUDIBLE). \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: And some operas performed in Berlin and not in Paris?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: In fact, Christopher Columbus and The Oresteia were performed in Berlin, and not in Paris. And marvelously performed. And, uh, Christopher Columbus was performed in 1930, and, last year and this year. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING]: Yeah. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4325.0,4378.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: We're recording the Service Sacré, you know, with the Czech Philharmonic in November.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Who is recording it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: The Czech Philharmonic chorus and orchestra. Gerard Schwarz is conducting.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING]: With Gerard Schwartz.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: I told you about him.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: If you would write that down.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yes. In Prague. November first.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING]: A very fine conductor. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: And a wonderful baritone soloist from Israel by the name of Yaron Windmüller.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4378.0,4408.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: It is a work of love, you know, if I could say that. It is absolutely the relationship of a creature with his god. And I feel that, uh, when I hear the Service Sacré. It is really faith, but it is really love— that you can say to the baritone.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: But I'm sure of what I'm saying.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: I think you’re right. There is one recording with Milhaud conducting.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: He did conduct.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN [OVERLAPPING]: It was made in France.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: There is a recording, I think.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4408.0,4449.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Listen, I have a, my dear friend, Jeremy Derek, comes tomorrow. I already asked him to find out, uh, if I have the (recording of the) sacred service, with Milhaud conducting. And, uh, that I can send you a copy of it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: I think that was recorded in 1956, or '57.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: But listen, in fact there, there are no problems in that work, I think.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: You mean musical problems?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: I think it's very direct.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4449.0,4477.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eNEIL LEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. No, but it requires a really good orchestra and a really good chorus.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: No, but if I find it, I promise, because I did speak to Jeremy today. And, uh, he knows where everything is in the house. He even finds me (wink).","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4477.0,4497.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN [OVERLAPPING]: The other recording, the Cantata de Proverb we’re recording in London, but we were going to do it with children.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: You do that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: But you’re a darling my dear.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Hmm?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: That I’m delighted. The Cantata de Proverb, the Cantate des Proverbes?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Isn’t it in English?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yes, it's in English.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: [OVERLAPPING] That's perfect, yes. There are many works in English of Milhaud. But the British never know that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4497.0,4529.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: No. They’d never heard of this in England. This is not so well known a work, anyway, the proverb. But we’ll record that with children’s choir.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD:  There is a Cantanta, the words of Charles d’Orléans which was written in English and French. Like Chaucer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4529.0,4546.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: But the string quartet l didn't know about the string quartet until today. Did you know about it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Well, the string quartet…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN [OVERLAPPING]: The string quartet. Now where can we find the music for that? \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL KICKENBACHER: It’s the publisher, it’s Echique.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Is it still up in…no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Well I’m going to send you the, there are eight. There is going to be a, a recording out in September.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Of the string quartet?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4546.0,4567.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Of the 18 quartets, by the Quartet Parisii plus that page for quartet that Milhaud wrote after Stravinsky's death, plus the quartet written on the business of the Comtat Venaissin, and plus, the octet.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4567.0,4588.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: That's the double quartet.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Because he wrote the string quartet, and another string quartet which you can play at the same time. So it’s an octet. You can play them separately but also at the same time and they fit together. Which numbers are these are these two quartets?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Because one gave to Darius a little book with 18, uh, with eighteen, eight?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Staves. Music lines…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: So he began to say what can I write, so he wrote his 14th.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4588.0,4619.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: The 14th string quartet.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD:  Then he wrote his 15th. The whole work is, ends exactly at the last page of the book. Il n’y a pas une rature. I don’t know how you say it in English.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: He hasn't scratched out anything. It starts the first page and ends the last page.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: It is very strange, interesting, because you see the…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4619.0,4646.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING]: The way of thinking.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: The quartet de Budapest comes, plays the 14th. And the other quartet plays the 15th. And when they have to play together, they look at each other like monsters. They could bite each other. It’s extravagant, but it’s true. And when the Budapest made a recording about 40 years ago, they recorded the octet themselves.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: They played playback?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN OR KARL RICKENBACHER: They didn't want another string quartet?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4646.0,4676.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: But I think it shows the way of Darius Milhaud's musical thinking, that you can put two quartets together. Because I find…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Well, uh, I'm going to tell you something. There’s, there’s a part of, uh, game… \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Game, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4676.0,4699.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: …in Milhaud's mind. He gives birth to difficult things that he's, he's not obliged to.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING]: Absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: And because he's interested to do it for himself.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING]: But it's also not only in this aspect, it’s also…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Chance music. As I told you about the chance music, le cocktail de…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Oui.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4699.0,4724.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD:\u003c/strong\u003e In fact, uh, it was written in 1919, when he comes back from the states in '47, and everybody speaks of chance music, chance music. He says, but, I wrote some in '19.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4724.0,4738.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: You mean aleatoric music. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Yes absolutely, too. But it’s a game.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: There is an aspect, yes. But there is also an aspect of complication because nobody else has written music where 4 different, 5 different tonalities happen at the same time, and, he was able to check it. He was able to hear every tonality. He was able to think inside himself, a musical piece progressing whilst he was thinking something else. It’s a very particular mind at work. I find often in his course that for him it must have been easy, but it’s very complicated.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4738.0,4791.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Well in fact, it's true, that, uh, if one studies Milhaud's works, every time one studies, you discover things.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: In fact. I ought not to say that because a wife ought not to say nice things about her husband. No?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4791.0,4820.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eNEIL LEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e Another interesting episode I wanted to ask you about. There was a German, musicologist I suppose, by the name of Hans Nathan. And after, in the 1930s he had been in Palestine and then he came to America. But in the meantime, probably after he got to America, he suggested to, I don’t know, six or seven composers that they write, that each one write, take two or three Hebrew folk songs, from what was then Jewish Palestine. Typical folk songs, from the immigration, from what we call the second or third aliyah, the second or third immigration and try selling them for voice and piano. Simply, but, as that composer would do it. And Milhaud was also one of those. There were, let me think, Kurt Weil, Milhaud, my goodness, Stefan Volpe, Copeland, about six or seven.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4820.0,4897.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Yes, it’s true that Copeland is Jewish.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: I think he is a good composer. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACH: Oh yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: I am very fond of Copeland.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yes. But, anyway, so they assigned two folk songs to Milhaud, to write. To make a setting for piano, piano and voice, accompaniment, and your….\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Where does that come from?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: You don’t know the piece?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: You don’t know about this project?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4897.0,4932.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eNEIL LEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e If not, I can send this to you because it was only published two years ago.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD (CONTINUED): No, I think, uh, what's concerning Milhaud and Jewish music, in fact, it's a little like, uh, no, because folk music, in fact, uh, he had the impression that he had absolutely the right to make a very complicated salad with 40 tunes. If he had to work like a sacred service he would really, with respect, follow exactly what he had to do, in following the service, in fact.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4932.0,4977.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD (CONTINUED): But there are works that could be inspired by Jewish, uh, faith. So there you are free to do it exactly as you wish. So there, I think there are the two, two different ways. It works as well for folk, for folk, uh, if you have invented the tune yourself, in a way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4977.0,4999.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: There is a letter that he wrote; I can send you this. It’s interesting because he said he didn’t like this folk song at all, in fact he hates it, and therefore he will not abandon it because it’s a good exercise to try to force himself to try to write the accompaniment for it. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: In fact, there are three works, I think in folk music. In fact, La Suite Francaise- but that was immediately, because he had to write a work for, when the American’s came in Normandy, La Libération, in fact. Uh, Darius, uh, wrote a piece with, uh, folk music, coming from different parts of France that had been freed by the Americans. That’s why it’s called Suite Francaise in a certain way, that’s the reason. When he had to work, uh, to write for Kentucky, he took tunes of Kentucky and, about 40 tunes and mixed everything up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=4999.0,5073.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD (CONTINUED):  Musicologists brought him tunes from Italy, and he wrote La Suite Cisalpine which is a work for cello and orchestra, the whole thing. So, he's, there's a sort of, uh, but he loved to mix everything up, that’s it. But in fact, Pulcinella.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: In fact. It's true. So, what could I say else? I have, yes, there is in the book by Collaer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: The business about religious music, I'm going to show that to you.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: In the book by Collaer?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Yes. Um, um, I'm going to show it to you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=5073.0,5129.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHE: Paul Collaer was a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: I think it will be, it is about the service, uh, the Sacred Service.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: In the book…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: [OVERLAPPING]: Because Henri Barraud, who was a composer, and was at the head of the French radio…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: …uh, for years, uh, every Sunday, uh, had a program. And, uh, one Sunday, he used the Sacred Service, so he made a very important study on that. I'm going to show you that. If I send the text in French can you, can you translate it alright?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yeah. Sure, sure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: … and that I will, I’ll send you a copy, promise.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=5129.0,5169.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eKARL RICHENBACHER:\u003c/strong\u003e Paul Collaer was very important for Milhaud because… Paul Collaer was a Belgian conductor, musicalogue, pianist, friend of Milhaud, Ravel, Stravinsky and he did a lot for contemporary music. He was director of the Belgian music department of the radio, and when I met him first, you don’t know this, Madeleine, he said to me, “you have to conduct the Milhaud symphonies.” Oh yes, because he was a great friend and admirer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=5169.0,5208.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Because Paul always had the impression that he, he, if he had composed, he would've written like Darius.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: That's interesting.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: That's my impression, certainly. But did you ever read the book, uh, on the, all the letters that he, that he received?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING]: Yes, I…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: You have the book, no?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yes. This, well there is, it’s a compendium of 20th century music.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=5208.0,5233.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: No, it, it is a must. In fact, that book ought to be translated into every language. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING]: Yes.  \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Because Collaer, in fact, uh, became friendly with all the composers of this century.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Without exception. Really. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: And he had letters [INAUDIBLE]- Schoenberg, deFalla… all sorts of…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: But also of composers like Karl Amadeus Hartmann.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Absolutely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=5233.0,5259.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: …dedicated two symphonies to him. Not because he thought one is not enough, but the one he had dedicated to Paul Collaer was lost, so he took the one he had just written. Because Paul Collaer wrote to me when I conducted the second symphony — “is this the symphony he dedicated to me?”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Yes. But you know I'm gonna send you something, uh, the dedications of Milhaud’s 18 quartets are really like an autobiography. But the first one is in memory of Cezanne, that means after Milhaud was always in the country – in Aix-en-Provence, where Cezanne, he admires Cezanne\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING] : Mon Sainte-Victoire, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD ….and the last one is in souvenir of his parents. You have the birth and the end. And the 14 and the 15th both are dedicated to Collaer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: That's interesting.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Absolutely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Both of them?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Absolutely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=5259.0,5328.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: That means a lot.  Is there one dedicated to you?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Yes, the 13, because 13 has always been a happy, lucky number. There's one dedicated to Daniel for his 21st year, 20 or 18th year, for his birthday. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: That's the son, Daniel, the son.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: There is one souvenir for [INAUDIBLE] because he had Milhaud [INAUDIBLE].\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN OR KARL RICKENBACHER: But there is no quartet dedicated to Saint-Saëns..\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: To whom?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN OR KARL RICKENBACHER: Saint-Saëns.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Because they had met.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=5328.0,5366.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Because Saint-Saëns took his hat. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yeah, yeah. Where was this? In, in, with Durant?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Well, because Saint-Saëns was furious when he heard a piece, or when he knew that Pierné, who was a very important old man and a marvelous conductor, conducted the work of Darius, which was an enormous scandal. The people fought, began to fight in the hall… It was marvelous.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Which work was this? \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: And Saint-Saëns was mad, uh, and so he began to criticize the polytonality, saying that works of two different — I don't know how to say that in English.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Polytonality. It’s the same word.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING] That it couldn't work. That it doesn’t make music, it makes noise.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: But they met by chance.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: No. Once Darius went to his publisher, who was the same publisher of Saint-Saëns. Saint-Saëns, by mistake, went away with Milhaud’s hat. Not for long, but it was funny.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=5366.0,5432.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: Your friends were also, Claudel was mentioned, but then there was, of course Cocteau, was a very important influence.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: No. Not on Milhaud whatever.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: But on you.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: No, but, uh, in fact, there were three writers, uh, who had made great influence on young men of that generation: Claudel, Francis Jammes, the poet, and Andre Gide.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Andre Gide.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=5432.0,5465.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD:\u003c/strong\u003e So, Milhaud wrote, uh, part of, uh, uh, a work for voice and piano called Alissa which is, uh, inspired by the book of Andre Gide called La Porte Étroite. And he wrote, uh, poems on Claudel’s words in prose, Connaissance de l’Est, before he met Claudel, in fact. He was extremely friendly with a boy who would probably become a priest if he hadn't been killed during the war in '14 and, uh, Francis Jammes had written a play called La Brebis Égarée and it was Milhaud's first opera.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=5465.0,5514.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD (CONTINUED): And he went to, when he went to visit Francis Jammes to show him the first act. He played the poems of Claudel. Jammes asked him, “do you know Claudel?” He said, “no.” He send a word to Claudel and that's how Claudel came to see him. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING]: I see.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=5514.0,5534.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: This was the beginning of the collaboration.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: And Claudel came to see you very often in the south, in Aix-en…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: He came sometimes, he came twice, but he came for our wedding because he was Milhaud's witness.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=5534.0,5551.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD:\u003c/strong\u003e And another hand, uh, we went to his house in the mountains because we became…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING]: And his sister, Camille, was in a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: And guess [INAUDIBLE], but in fact Darius [INAUDIBLE]  Milhaud wrote his opera Christopher Columbus, and Claudel wrote works for chorus that Darius needed. No, there has been a very good, very close collaboration between them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=5551.0,5580.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: But I think that…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: I, I don't think that Claudel would've liked very much the scandals, but we could not avoid that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER No, because recently was the film with…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]:  Did you know, it was the wife of the composer, Jolivet - you know the composer Jolivet? Because, uh, when one played Jolivet’s concerto for piano, a man begin to whistle not, in America you whistle when you admire, but not here. And so she began to slap the man. It finished at the police center. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: You never had to do this.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: No, I, I was, listen, no, in fact, what is, what is bad. If some of the people of the audience come, on purpose, to whistle, you see what I mean?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: So, that is bad.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=5580.0,5649.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: I love the story you told us where Pierné, Gabriel Pierné, the conductor, when there was this demonstration against the music by Milhaud, he turned around to the audience and said, “I will play the piece again at the end of the program.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: No, that was Monteux.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Pierre Monteux.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=5649.0,5672.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD:\u003c/strong\u003e No, Pierné. It’s more than that because Darius was very young when that piece was a very, a great scandal. Uh, so he went to see Pierné, who was a very old man already of the sort, and he said very calmly, “I play that same piece in a week” and he did. So, there we climbed on the top of the theater and there was a woman who recognized Darius, and she had an umbrella. She began to say “not in…” and she made the place where you put the mad people, “but in…” it's a place where you fire murderers and criminals.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=5672.0,5723.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD (CONTINUED): But it was not, uh, so bad, uh, a week afterwards. No, uh, then we had the five studies of Milhaud for piano and orchestra. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING]: Cinq Études.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: l…the man who was, uh, in fact, uh, how do you call the people who place you when you, take you to your seats?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Ushers.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: The usher.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=5723.0,5745.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eNEIL LEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e It is. How well did Milhaud know Monteux?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=5745.0,5777.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: Well, Monteux, he knew Monteux for years. In fact, uh, in fact, uh, in fact he conducted that piece in Amsterdam.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: He knew him before the war?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: But it happened that Monteux was the conductor of the orchestra, the symphony orchestra, in San Francisco.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yes. That was…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: So, we, we went to, to all his concerts, uh, regularly, in fact, because it was very close from the college where we were. Absolutely. He was a very good conductor.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: And the curiosity. He liked to discover things until the very end of his life.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=5777.0,5828.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD:\u003c/strong\u003e You know, it's very difficult because, in fact, when you are conducting in a place like the States, you have to, not to be disliked by the lady who gives money. It was important. Because that stupid business of, uh, conducting by heart.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=5828.0,5848.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: By mem--, yeah, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: By memory is sometimes difficult when you have to conduct a work once, and when you are aging like Monteux. And I recall saying, “listen, why don't you take the music?” And he answered, “if the lady’s trustees see me conducting with a score they will say that I haven't studied my, the score.” That's all. And where did that come from? It came from Toscanini who was half blind.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=5848.0,5890.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KARL RICKENBACHER: Short sighted yeah, he could only read…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: Absolutely. Absolutely. I, uh, was a récitante (reciter) in Les Choephores in Carnegie Hall with Mitropoulos, who conducted everything by heart. And there was a moment when Mitropoulos [COVERS HER EYES] and he didn't know what was happening. It is terrifying. And it is a responsibility, because if you have a score, you don't look at it, that’s all. But it is frightening.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Did you help him?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=5890.0,5930.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: I had an impression he’d last for centuries. Then suddenly it came back, but I was sort of, you have to… the chorus, the orchestra, the poor little lady who has been waiting for. No, too bad. Uh, the, when they don't have the right to come, to play a concerto by heart, by memory, in the radio, the French radio, before the war.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: It was forbidden. You had to use the music.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: And they were right, in fact.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Ah yeah. Times change. Today people come back to…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=5930.0,5976.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: I must say too, because that is not very serious, because I had to, I played [NAME OF A PLAY], music by George Auric.  But I was a charming bird, arrived on the stage, climbed on a ladder having my, the person was at the head of, the, the director of the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING]: Of the play.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=5976.0,6001.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: …of the whole business playing there. And there one day I had to, I don’t know why, I took some aspirin or something. I come, I climb, all my business. [INAUDIBLE FRENCH], and nothing.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: You didn't remember?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: That's it, absolutely. And I continue. [sings the song in French] I began to sing birds. And I go until the end of my work. So that man, when, uh, when I came out of stage, I said my, “please maestro, please, uh, don't, I hope you are not mad with me.” He said, “oh, not at all.” He never say the compliment. It was a day where he did say, “it was marvelous. The main thing is never to stop.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD (CONTINUED): But you don't have the chance to work a, a part of bird all your life, you know. That was funny.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=6001.0,6063.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN: How did you—well both of you I mean, but particularly your husband—find the musical climate, the musical atmosphere, in America from during those years from 1940 through the '50s and '60s?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Uh, he was very happy here in, uh, now, I must say that San Francisco is not all the States.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN[OVERLAPPING] No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=6063.0,6086.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD:\u003c/strong\u003e On another hand, I admit that the, uh, professors, uh, realized that Darius was not a man of administration. And that for, why should he follow committees of that type. Thirdly, uh, he could teach at home. That was very important for him. And he was also interested by the kids because he found out that they were very gifted, because what was interesting is that, uh, music is taught in special schools in France.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=6086.0,6129.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD:\u003c/strong\u003e So for him it was a rather pleasant, plus the climate near San Francisco. San Francisco, it's rather charming city.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=6129.0,6151.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NEIL LEVIN [OVERLAPPING]: Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: So I think he was very happy over there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: How about with colleagues? With musical colleagues and other composers, did he…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING]: You were very, you were very…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING] He absolutely, in fact, did not. He was completely free.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Yeah, but you were very friendly, for example, with Hindemith. Hindemith was there, and uh….\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Hindemith was in Princeton, and twice students came to see Darius because Hindemith had completely destroyed their confidence in themselves. He's not at all the same type of teacher. No, I'm going to tell you a story. There was a composer called Maurice Delage.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: Delage.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=6151.0,6211.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: A good composer, extremely, uh, influenced by Stravinsky and by Ravel. And at a certain moment that man didn't know how to compose anymore. Milhaud was not friendly with Delage. And Delage was much older than Darius. And one day, one rang at the door, and it was Delage, and said to Darius, “I can't write anymore.” And Darius told him, “write a song for [SOUNDS LIKE] Miss Taget.” You know who Miss Taget was?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING] Miss Taget is a pop singer…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: “Without accompaniment, just the melodic line. And bring me that when it’s finished.” That means no, chi-chi, no story, no..","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=6211.0,6256.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD [OVERLAPPING]: And the man understood quite well. A few days came back and said, “I am saved.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: I tell you that story because it is interesting.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER [OVERLAPPING]: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eMADELEINE MILHAUD: Milhaud has always tried to help a, a person. He didn't like when somebody would copy his music, so he would take the piece and tear it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=6256.0,6282.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960/transcript/25460/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MADELEINE MILHAUD: That’s all. So that’s it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: That’s a perfect ending… \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNEIL LEVIN: It’s a perfect ending.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eKARL RICKENBACHER: …That’s it. Fantastic.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/31412/file/111960#t=6282.0,6302.8595"}]}]}]}