{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/z31ng4hg9d/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Goldberg, Yitzak"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","metadata":[],"provider":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Lowell Milken Center for Music of American Jewish Experience"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/115/original/Boxed_Milken_Center_logo.png?1628711583","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/110/760/small/Goldberg.jpg?1622115458","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Goldberg_Yitzak.mp4"]},"duration":6877.14133,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/110/760/small/Goldberg.jpg?1622115458","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-milken.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/110/760/original/Goldberg_Yitzak.mp4?1616019945","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":6877.14133,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Edited Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Okay.  Mr. Goldberg, it’s a pleasure to have you here.  And I think we’ll start by your filling us in.  Because this is a subject that very few people know about.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Thanks a lot, and I’m glad to be here.  Because I feel that we have to, we have to remember what happened before.  And there is a danger that, that it would be lost — a movement which was very important in American Jewish life. The interesting thing was that essentially, it was a part of a certain cultural revival, on a worldwide scale.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=17.0,50.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Proof of it was Peretz’ attempts to organize a hazomer in Warsaw — that’s 1899. Two very basic collections of Yiddish folk songs appeared, one in 19, at the beginning of the century, and one about ten years later.  There most likely are close to a thousand folk songs in them.  There’s a folk song, the first one was Martin Ginsburg and then, Yaphet folk songs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBut there were no choruses — people’s choruses, so to say — in Europe during that period.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=50.0,87.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  What do you mean by a people’s chorus?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Organized practically by themselves.  It came out, it came out of the grass, so to say. Now, there were musical movements at the, in the 18th, in the 19th century.  There were the Broder Zinger, a famous group of songsters who traveled Galicia, Poland, White Russia a little, under the name the Broder Zinger. Why Broder?  Because there is town of Brod, and one of them came from Brod, Bel Broder.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=87.0,121.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"However, they did something very important in beginning to create a people’s music. There is, outside of the, of the Broder Zinger, of course, in this century already, the two events — two musical events — which I, I feel should be linked, because there was a link all the time. There was M.M. Warshowsky.  M.M. stands for Mark Markovich Warshowsky.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=121.0,149.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"An Odessa lawyer who was discovered — really discovered — by Sholem Aleichem.  And he had a wealth of folk songs.  We knew nothing about them. The first one would be — my date may be wrong — edited by Sholom Aleichem.  The first was now in 1907-8, and the next one after the death of, of Warshowsky. To tell you about Warshowsky, all you have to do is to say the Doyffen Pupichik was his.  The Machetunim Gayn Kinder was his.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=149.0,184.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The Hazana, Hazana songs.  He left a wealth of extraordinary, sensitive, lyrical and what we call folk, folk music. Himself, he could hardly write music.  The music was written by his brother.  And the text was written, and was written by Peretz.  Peretz may, may have edited him a little.  They are to be, to be remembered.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=184.0,214.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There was also someone else who fit into the folk music development, and that’s a famous [SOUNDS LIKE Ayokhum Tsumzer].  Known sometimes, or he calls himself as [SOUNDS LIKE Yokim Batkhum].  Again, I would say there are probably two scores of songs, some of them very important.  Some of them about Israel already.  Some of them about suffering, some of them about the, the beginning of the awakening of the people and the beginning of the cultural movements in, in, in Europe.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=214.0,252.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And all of this was really linked with what happened, with what happened here in America, what happened in the United States. So that I don’t miss it, I want to mention, too, that amongst the two folk singers in Europe was Warshowsky and then there was Mordkhe Gebirtig, who came from Galicia, who was, who worked all his life — a carpenter or something, and wrote some of the most exciting songs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=252.0,287.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He was killed in 1943, I think, on the streets of Krakow.  He lived in Krakow.  He was killed by the Nazis in 1943.  And luckily, some of his poetry was saved. He, by the way, again, hasprent bredele, hasprent — the call of the coming of, of the, of the attack of the Nazis, came from, from Gebirtig also, the call.  And then telling us that he was, sitz mit tel hayf de handt.  Or he says, “A shtetl brendt” — the little shtetl — “is aflame.” “How come that you stand there, you,” addressed to the people of the, the Jewish people of the world,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=287.0,334.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"“How come that you stand there with folded hands and don’t do anything?”  Frankly, historically, he was very right. What he left was extraordinary poetry.  I had the chance, the opportunity, to prepare to work on a, on one operetta with Moyshe Rauch.  And I called it Niggun Mordkhe.  Niggun Mordkhe, meaning the melody of, of Mordkhe. I use all this because there are links.  I couldn’t go, I, I couldn’t start without seeing the threads which came from, from Europe.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=334.0,372.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  Let me ask you a question.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Aye.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  When you talk about a people’s chorus…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  And when you spoke about hazomer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  What kind of chorus was the hazomer in Warsaw?  Was that a people’s chorus?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Definitely a people’s chorus.  What happened there was, what did happen at the period was an extraordinary awakening of folk culture.  And the danger that, that changes in Jewish life and the danger that folk culture will, will be lost.  The hazomer was essentially a people’s chorus.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Was it allied with any political movement?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=372.0,406.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"GOLDBERG:  Allied with no movement whatsoever.  Allied with I.L. Peretz, who spent, as a result of this beating I mentioned before, spent a few months in the prison of Warsaw, accused of doing revolutionary work. And it’s supposed to — by the way, they tell me — I never heard it, of course — it, that, that was a very good chorus.  With a number of very good singers.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But it wasn’t part of a socialist party or movement or…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Not at that time.  No.  The hazomer wasn’t. The Socialist Party and the link with the socialist movement came in the United States.  It wasn’t in Europe. The hazomer — and hazomer was really, he created — the same Peretz, who later on was interested in Yiddish schools for the younger generation —","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=406.0,448.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was interested in creating, it was better off keeping and taking care of cultural values — that they not be lost.  And then that was it. Here in the United States, the development was a little different.  Here, they were really, they came out by themselves. Who, who was the first chorus?  I am inclined to think that it was the Chicago Chorus.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=448.0,479.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was as early as 1915, 1916.  I am inclined to think, because I had a great big picture, photograph of about 70, 80 smiling faces, singing, and over them there is a banner, and it’s called Yiddishe Socialiste Hall — no less than Socialiste Hall.  And the slogan was that their, their weapon was singing, but their dream was socialism. This lasted to, started early, before any other choruses.  I am not aware of any outside of the, of the Chicago group.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=479.0,517.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  What year was that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  ’15, 1915.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  About ’15, ’16, I’d say.  I, as a matter of fact, the name, which I’ll mention soon, the name of Sheyfer — Jacob Sheyfer — comes with that group.  And later on, the influence was, it was close to the Workmen’s Circle already.  And definitely, this was a socialist group.  There was no, there was no question about it. And as I told you, their weapon is the song — is music — but their aim is socialism.  This is written in Yiddish over the, over the banner, and I have a picture of that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=517.0,550.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  Was this the same group that continued on through the years with a change in name?  In other words, their…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  The answer would be yes or no.  There were many, the development after that was a rather slow one.  But the fact is that in a sense, it was this group and these people. As a matter of fact, in a sense, it was Sheyfer, and I think we should recognize him.  And give him the full recognition as the man who really started the people’s choruses.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=550.0,583.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It happened similar to that in, in New York.  It was Leo Lov, I think, who decided to have, organize a chorus ̶  that was ’22 ̶  which still exists now.  The, Leo, and he let the people know about it.  And I spoke, I still got to know one of them who was there. And they, he had a, about 75 candidates came, and he picked about 60 of them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=583.0,615.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the fascinating thing is that the first song which they sang was a song called in, a song in Yiddish, Un Du Achist Un Du Zayst. I’m sorry Bill isn’t here.  He probably would have known the music.  I can’t sing at all. Un Du Achist Un Du Zayst — and I stress it, because this is strange of the Achist Un Du Zayst song, the text of it started somewhere in England, with Percy Bysshe Shelley, who wrote his famous poem “Men of England.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=615.0,650.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"“Men of England, work for toil,” and so on. This was picked up later by a German poet called Hareveg and translated into German.  From German, a man called Chaim Gitlovsky, who later on became a very, an outstanding leader in Jewish life, primarily a Yiddishist, also primarily a, a founder of the socialist, of one of the socialist groups in, in old Russia.  Socialist revolutionary, really. It was Chaim Gitlovsky who turned to [SOUNDS LIKE Un Du Achist, Un Du Zayst, Un Du Fetust, Un Du Nayst.]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=650.0,690.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the last line is, “[SOUNDS LIKE Zog, mein volk, farst tu fardinst]” — “Please, oh people, tell me, after all the labor, what do you really earn?” And, in a sense, that was the tone set.  They went back to…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  What was the name of the group that Lov conducted?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  In Toronto, and in New York…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  In New York.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  In 1922, you mean.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Oh, the name is an easy one.  Because it’s still alive now.  It still functions under a young director.  That was the Philharmonishe that — Freiheit Gezang Ferang, Freiheit Gezang Ferang, which later became the Philharmonic Chorus, which now still is in existence.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=690.0,727.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There’s about 50, 60 young singers amongst them.  There were, no more than two or three, four or five, who really know Yiddish.  But others learned the, learned the songs.  A very good chorus, still alive.  It’s still there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That was also called the Jewish People’s Philharmonic Chorus?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  No.  The Jewish People wasn’t — no, it was simply Yiddishe, Yiddishe Philharmonishe Volks, Volkschor.  Which set sort of the tone to what happened.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You mean it was never actually called The Jewish People’s Philharmonic Chorus?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=727.0,758.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"GOLDBERG:  You may, you may be right.  But I would have to — it may be.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And there were — and what about, and now, for example, other cities.  In Chicago, there was a big Jewish People’s Philharmonic Chorus, also.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  I’ll, I’ll come to, I’ll come to that in a minute.  That probably is, that was the beginning. After, after Chicago, after — Sheyfer came to New York in about 1926, ‘27.  The first chorus — most likely, you’re right.  I, I wouldn’t, it, it was the Yiddishe Philharmonishe Volkschor, which, which — and this one was the Yiddishe Philharmonishe Volkschor.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=758.0,795.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Both sort of leaning to the left, and both, later on, the Volkschor New York or all over, the choruses developed, and they claimed at the time.  Now, I was not, never a leader of the choruses.  I had contact with them.  They claimed to have about 30 choruses all over the country.  I tried to figure it last night.  I tried to, to make sure. I know that there was a folk chorus in, about two or three in New York.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=795.0,832.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jersey had about three of them.  Boston had a chorus, Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland.  I was acquainted and I knew these choruses.  There probably were about 30 choruses which were the Yiddishe Volkschor, and that’s it.  But…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Did you, did Los Angeles have, do you know?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  I never saw it.  And that, to miss, of course, Los Angeles had more than one chorus.  There was a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Petaluma?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  …chorus and they also had an [SOUNDS LIKE Antler] Jewish Chorus.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  These choruses are separate from the Arbeter Ring Chor, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=832.0,863.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"GOLDBERG:  They — no.  Oh, no.  They had, they, they were not into, with the Arbeter Ring.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It was a separate thing?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  That’s right.  No, these choruses essentially belonged to the Jewish cultural left — all of them did. However, the movement, the, the, they, it developed as an extraordinary cultural movement.  The approach was — I’m sorry I couldn’t give you.  I thought I’d find it.  I was trying to find the first or second concert in Chicago, to see what they, what they picked.  What songs. They were always interested in classical music, non-Jewish music, too.  Always.  Always sang in Yiddish. And primarily, the approach of these choruses was to take the material from Yiddish, from Yiddish literature, some translated from the Hebrew.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=863.0,926.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hebrew songs came in only later, only — well, after Israel.  They weren’t there before. And, but both the, both, above all, the approach was go back to Yiddish literature and see what you can take from it and turn it into, into music, or give it, put a musical little dress on it. And the, who’s the one who set really set the tone for it was Sheyfer.  Yakov Sheyfer.  What he did was something extraordinary.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=926.0,958.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Probably as early as 1916, ’17, he took a poem written by Yitskhok Leybush Peretz, as early as 1895.  A poem called Tsvey Brider.  Picked up that Tsvey Brider and turned it, it into most likely, a musical he’d done for about, I imagine, close to 30, 35 minutes.  And tells this, and then truly tells the story how evil began, how men began, how that Tsvey Brider, the two brothers, couldn’t live together, and how one claimed that this is his blood and his sweat and so on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=958.0,1002.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the other one goes, no, this is his diamonds and his wealth. And then he ends the poem with — Peretz did, too — “across the sea,” the poem starts — the Yiddish first line of it.  Let me give you a line or two.  We should remember it. “[SOUNDS LIKE Auf viend auzeit yam, isht gizshtangin amol, auf hinof shif vishlach, aheizel entrol.”] — “Across the sea, there stood once, once upon a time, a little house.”  The Yiddish expression “to stand on chicken legs”,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1002.0,1035.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSEROTA:\u003c/strong\u003e You mentioned before that Lov was the founder of the Volkschor in New York.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1035.0,1071.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"GOLDBERG:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  In ’22.  But I think by the middle ‘20s, Lov was no longer associated…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  He left it, he left, they were, he left about ’26 or ‘7.  Because even before, as a matter of fact, it was, it was Lov who did Tsvey Brider in New York.  And Sheyfer came from Chicago.  Sheyfer was still in Chicago. He came here to see it.  And he did it, Tsvey Brider, in — Sheyfer’s Tsvey Brider.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1071.0,1102.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the, he left about, about the middle or towards the end of the ‘20s, when Sheyfer came here. Now the, there, there was, I mentioned something about the link between music and literature.  There was, in a sense, also a link between literature and the, and the, and the Yid, and the Jewish painters.  So it was an interesting development at the time. And the time, at the time — I’m going to back to the two, first two decades of the century.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1102.0,1139.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"At that time, there’s, there, just as this was a link, here, there was a close link between literature, and here and there, of course, they — the choruses — used other, used songs, and so on.  But most of the texts, most of the texts were texts taken from Yiddish literature. And the, and the choruses are something which should be said about the chorus proper.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1139.0,1171.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The people who were in the chorus — and you should use the Yiddish word chor.  To be in the chor meant that, to make a statement, sort of.  To make a statement that these things concern me.  To make a statement that I want to sing Yiddish songs.  To make a statement that I, I want to keep that alive. The statement they did make officially was that they enjoyed it very much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1171.0,1202.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The houses, if a member of the chorus, the house of a member of the chorus, then you, many of their children, was sort of filled with the music which they brought home.  The music that you, that you brought home and that you, that becomes part of you.  That it was socially sharp.  Yes, it was, most of the time. However, it was Jewishly so important.  All throughout the time. Let me say something which I, I’d like to say at the beginning.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1202.0,1237.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There were no folk songs, in that sense, created in the United States.  I mean folk songs done, created by unknown authors.  We didn’t have it.  Maybe we weren’t here long enough. Even such a song as, as Columbus, Columbus Espadina, we knew who wrote it.  Even such a song, one of the most famous songs in the United States, was, I believe, A Brivele Der Mamen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1237.0,1273.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Which expressed everything which had to be expressed.  They are strangers.  They don’t, not know what you do with this America.  And above all, their inner longings to the so-called alter hein. Remember you, who wrote A Brivele Der Mamen?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That’s Smulewitz.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yeah, that’s right.  Smulewitz.  There was, this sweatshop. And there were some labor songs in Europe, too.  And I mentioned before, Un Du Achist Un Du Zayst.  And the sweatshop man was, he, he had to express himself.  He had to say something.  And the fascinating thing is that the labor songs here came from Morris Rosenfeld.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1273.0,1318.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Did he write those here?  Or some came from Reyzen too, I think. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Oh, a lot.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Did he write them here?  Because, for example, Mayn Rue-plats.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  It’s a, it happens to be written by…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That’s Reyzen?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Rosenfeld.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Written by Rosenfeld.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Rosenfeld, okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Now Rosenfeld, for example, gave us two songs, which in time became folk songs.  But essentially, they expressed the state of the people lost on not, not knowing the language, not sure of striking roots here, still carrying the hope that this is it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1318.0,1357.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And there he came to the sweatshop and, and he could hardly see his children. And when Rosenfeld came up with Mayn Yingele, a poem which merely bemoans the separation of the child — “And I who wanders in the sweatshop cannot, cannot even see my child.”  And the last lines are, “[SOUNDS LIKE Ven du del bachts damon mein kindt, sez timon shmir]” — “When you wake up, my child, you might not see me at all.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1357.0,1391.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And he commits this act of trying to wake the child and to tell him that, “I am here.  Please look at me.”  It’s an extraordinary song.  Extraordinary.  It spoke so close — and I’ll give you a minute. And the same reason, suddenly, the love song was there. [SOUNDS LIKE Zufmich Nicht.]  It’s a love song.  Essentially nothing, but he tells her not to look for him where the myrtle is green.  Not to look to him where birds sing.  And another place, I don’t remember where else she shouldn’t look.  Primarily because he’s a slave.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1391.0,1427.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Fontanen shpritzen.  Fontanen shpritzen.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Oh, yeah.  Of course.  The first line is, “Don’t look at, look for me where the fountains spurt — where the, where the fontanen shpritzen.  But at the machines you can find me.”\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Eyn kaypen klingen.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  And then he ends with, “If you really love me with true love,” using the expression true — the Yiddish vader lieber, “come to me, my dear, my treasure, my liebershatz, and help me raise, help me raise my spirit.” That became a folk song.  It was as known as, as any folk song was known.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1427.0,1464.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  The big question on those songs that I have for you — two questions.  Whether it’s that or Arbeter Freuen… \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …or what’s the one…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Or Reyzen’s…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Or the one, the [SOUNDS LIKE Voikefundt bas shpritz mit blut fun arbitsman.]\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  All those songs, which the, in the first place, the poems were written in America?  Or before these poets came to America?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1464.0,1494.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"GOLDBERG:  With the exception of Reyzen’s [SOUNDS LIKE Mit Brechen Denonc] and so on, all of them were written in America.  David Edelstadt came here as a 16, 17-year-old, and died at the age of 26, by the way.  And they promised them in his, the poem he wrote, that when the real freedom comes, he’ll sing to the people from his grave. [SOUNDS LIKE Sum volk villich fun kager zingen,] and so on.  Extraordinary poem.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  We don’t know who wrote the melodies, though.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1494.0,1529.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"GOLDBERG:  In that case, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Most of them, we have no idea…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  I’ll tell you something.  Wait.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Were they from Europe or were they here?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  No.  I wouldn’t know.  But I know one thing told to me by Morris Rosenfeld’s daughter. I did once with Morris, with Morris Rauch, something which was called, we used to do sort of quick operettas that operetta un der, der operetta un der vil brought nothing.  The operetta — and using the operetta words.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1529.0,1565.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And Rosenfeld’s daughter told me that the music for Zuch Fich Kumit Grayner — and I’m sorry that Bill isn’t here to sing it.  Very touching melody.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, I know the melody.  It’s good.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Was written by her father himself.  That Rosenfeld wrote Zuch Fich Kumit.  She also claimed that Mayn Yingele was written by her father.  I’m inclined — and not I’m inclined.  There is no reason to doubt it, and there is no reason to disbelieve.  This was told to me about, oh…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1565.0,1596.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  That’s the big question on most of those labor songs, the sweatshop in kampf.  I mean, some of them maybe came from Europe.  Because some of them….  But the ones you just mentioned, Mayn Yingele and Mayn Rue-plats…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …and certain things like that.  Those songs, we know they came from America, but we don’t know who wrote the melodies, except — this is very interesting.  But the thing is some of them were, became, by the 1930s, apparently, they were known in Russia already.  Because in, let’s say, you know, Berogovsky.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Oh, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1596.0,1627.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Berogovsky’s collection, when he went into the, you know, factories and so forth, to get folk songs, contained some of those melodies.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  May I add something to what we’re saying?  I was told by a man called Kalman Maumau — a historian, historian of the Jewish labor movement and so on — that when he attended his first secret meeting in Vilna, somewhere in the woods, a secret May Day meeting, as early as ’91, ’92, that they sang a song by Edelstadt, who died in Denver, Colorado in ’92, at the age of 26","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1627.0,1670.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was either ’92 — that they sang this song of Edelstadt [SOUNDS LIKE Au Gutte Freide Fur Nicht Pulstadt] — “Oh, good my friends, when die, please come to my grave.  Visit me with the red, with the flag of the working man, and I shall sing to you from the grave.” That in Vilna — and I have no reason in the world to ever doubt it — that in Vilna, as early as ’91, which is, was a year before Edelstadt died here in Denver, they sang Edelstadt’s song Au Gutte Freide Fur Nicht Pulstadt.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1670.0,1708.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don’t know about the music of, of the many, and that’s a very basic question.  I think it’s about time.  It’s about time we should know. Some music was adopted or adapted, really, from, from others.  But nonetheless, the music was, most of the choruses — or they were at that time — the music was written here.  And the music was written here.  Not Edelstadt’s and not, not — that was beyond Edelstadt and, and Rosenfeld. But there is a poem written by another labor poet here, one of the early poets, Joseph Bovshover, also died — didn’t die, but was put into destitution in 18, 9, 99.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1708.0,1752.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"A poem called “Awaken Oh People”. A big poem, really something, very basic, something influencing of American poetry already, with many in its tone.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd the music to this is written by Sheyfer already. Sheyfer wrote music to many of the old songs. Now he certainly did not write the music to Avram Reyzen, some of Avram Reyzen’s songs.  And for that matter, maybe he did.  Maybe there were some which had not been…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1752.0,1785.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Who was Jacob?  I mean, I notice — I mean we’re going to record some pieces.  He made choral arrangements of the folk songs.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  He made for — you know, even if they were European, he made a choral arrangement here.  And he, some of them were \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Then.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And a lot of them were published.  And like the Tsvey Brider that you mentioned — and there are some other cantatas like this.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Somewhere in Europe.  He was also in what’s known as a meshorer mit a hazzan. And the fact is that if I mentioned Tsvey Brider — I’m no musician, nor, nor, nor do I know the history of music.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1785.0,1818.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But when you get into Tsvey Brider, which he did as early as 1916, ’17 — and I mentioned that, that that’s a Peretz poem — some elements in there — and again, I am sorry that Bill isn’t here.  Some elements in there sound like the melodies, or the nusaḥ of prayers, and so on.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Well, you know, in addition to conducting the volkschor, Sheyfer was a conductor in synagogue choirs in Chicago. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  In Metro there, of course.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  And he composed synagogue music.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And yet, most of these people…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  So did Helfmann, by the way.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yes, Helfmann, of course.  But most of these people were not synagogue-goers, were they?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  None of them.  I can’t think of any of them, of the people who, with whom we’re concerned in the choruses — I’ll mention some names.  No, I don’t think so.  There were not, no — but again, there…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  They weren’t religious, were they?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1818.0,1872.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eGOLDBERG:\u003c/strong\u003e You cannot.  You couldn’t do it differently.  When it came, when I, whom am also not a synagogue-goer, I may as well admit, when I heard Sheyfer’s, some element there which reminds me — because I had heard before the nusaḥ of the, the song, of the music of, of the layl of the Shavuos night.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1872.0,1895.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When I heard there, it sounded exactly as taken out of the cantorial background, where, where Sheyfer, where Sheyfer came from.  So that there is no, no, no doubt about these influences. As a matter of fact, I may tell you that — oh, that was already a Rauch.  Rauch wrote, I wrote a, a libretto for one of Peretz’ stories.  A story called “If Not Still Higher”.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1895.0,1927.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The story where the rabbi believes, the, everybody says the rabbi disappears during the nights of the Selikhot before, around Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, and you don’t see him.  And of course, all the Hasidim believed that he goes up to Heaven.  The things to attend to. And a Litvak who comes there doubts it, as the Litvak is very known to doubt.  And he finally finds out that the rabbi really, instead of going up to heaven, was busy helping a poor, sick woman, going into her house, bringing some wood, dressed as a peasant and singing a song.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1927.0,1965.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And singing and saying Selikhot in there. Now, this was, this was Peretz.  I prepared, I prepared it, makes out of a, a text ready for music, which Rauch did.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And Rauch wrote the, he…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Rauch wrote the music.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Does it…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  As a matter of fact…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  There’s more than one.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  …it was the first, the first thing we did together, Rauch and I, was [SOUNDS LIKE Ob Nit Ochecher].\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  That’s a cantata.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  But…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  A cantata.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Hmmm?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  A cantata.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But and other people wrote the same…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1965.0,1993.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"GOLDBERG:  The — yes, things were written for the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Secunda.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  But this was a special text written for him.  But however, one of the choruses — I shouldn’t mention the, the city — one of the choruses didn’t want to sing it, because it was too religious.  And the leader of the chorus, who also happened to be an old student of mine from before — I shouldn’t mention his name, too — you know, he died lately. A young, younger leader called me to come to that Midwestern city and help me convince, help him convince the singers that it’s not a religious poem and that it’s all right to sing it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=1993.0,2034.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I really spent an evening, an evening spent there, proving to them, proving to them that what Peretz was saying really, that you can only, you go higher than heaven if you take care of man, if man takes care of man.  Instead of going to the synagogue, the rabbi is, is, is busy with the old woman, which is a, by the way, based on an old Hasidic story about the Baal Shem Tov in a song. Now, how many — let’s see what, what I about to, to continue.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2034.0,2066.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  Did you know Sheyfer?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  I knew him.  Yeah, I knew him well, right here.  We sort of — yeah, I had a good relationship with Sheyfer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  What sort of person was he?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Was what?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  What sort of person was he?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Oh, a bit overwhelming.  A bit overbearing, and seems to be very friendly, too.  I had known him, knew him, I knew his wife, Leah, whom I liked very much.  She was a nice person.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN: Did someone like Sheyfer have any direct descendants, any family that is alive now?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2066.0,2099.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"GOLDBERG:  I think there was no child in the family.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No child.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  There was Leah and there was he.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Is there any biographical, any information?  Supposing someone wanted to…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  The Zabayo.  The Zabayo printed in Yiddish.  I’ll show you.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  In Yiddish.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  In Yiddish.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s all in Yiddish.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yeah, there is…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Is there anything in English that’s available?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  There are — no.  There is something which Bailin wrote, I think, under, in Yiddish, there’s a full biography of Sheyfer.  And I think it should — something, something should be done, really.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  So if one wanted to do, let’s say, some work about Sheyfer, even just shtam Sheyfer, one would need some help translating from that biography, but then one could do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2099.0,2128.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"GOLDBERG:  By the way, you know that, that the, that Tsvey Brider wasn’t all that, Sheyfer wasn’t…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No, I know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  The outstanding work.  Sheyfer did no less, I imagine, about ten basic works.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And what was the involvement, before I get to some other names to ask you about — in those days, if they gave a concert, let’s say the big, the chor gave a concert here, they gave it in a big concert hall.  Right?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And the public…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Go on…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But in a big….  So they also sang — I mean, what was the involvement politically with, after the revolution in Russia, with songs about — for example, I saw in some program, they sang the [SOUNDS LIKE Hoit Daemie Ballade].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2128.0,2172.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eGOLDBERG:\u003c/strong\u003e Probably did.  I am not aware of it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBut I can tell you that Sheyfer did, one of his works was done on the text of Peretz Markish, who was an outstanding Soviet-Yiddish writer who was killed on August the 12th, 1952, of course.  That Peretz — that Sheyfer — did.  I think it’s, it was called Nishtulim — a work on the poetry of, about the Soviet-Yiddish poets. And let me also add to this that there was a wealth to take from.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2172.0,2207.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There was a wealth of extraordinary poets — that otherwise, Stalin wouldn’t have had so many to kill.  Of people like Hofstein — David Hofstein — or Peretz Markish.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Itzik Feffer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Or Itzik Feffer.  And as a matter of fact, Helfmann did the music to Feffer’s Shotnis Vin der Warshava Ghetto.  And it’s extraordinary music. Shotnis Vin der Warshava Ghetto was a poem written by Itzik Feffer on the Nazis, the Nazis in Warsaw.  And the, the shotnis, shotnis — the shadows — of the Warsaw ghetto.  And Helfmann wrote and…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2207.0,2248.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  And that’s one…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  …it was a very moving, a very moving poem.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Do you remember that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No?  That’s one I know, that’s one Helfmann piece I’ve never heard of before.  But I’m going…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Oh, Helfmann, then, in that case you didn’t — it probably, do you know Helfmann’s Naya Haggadah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Of course.  We’re recording Naya Haggadah in Los Angeles in June.  The entire work.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Ah, you did it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  We are going to.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Oh, you’re going to.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  June.  June 13th.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  May I draw your attention to someone who lives in Los Angeles — a dancer, Saida Gerrard — who did work with Helfmann in Detroit some years ago.  A very fine dancer — one of the Martha Graham dancers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2248.0,2288.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  She did the other one?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  She did the Naya Haggadah with Helfmann, with Helfmann in Detroit, and maybe also in Los Angeles, in those days.  May I draw your…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Did you know that somebody…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  And you’re definitely, definitely…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What’s the name?  Sadie Gerrard?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  What was that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Saida.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Saida?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Saida.  S-A-I-D-A.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Gerard is G-E-R, somewheres, 28.  Definitely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  We’ll find it.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  It’s, they’re easy to find, and they’re a good source of, of, of help.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Because there’s other Helfmann work — I mean, Helfmann was very involved with these kinds of choruses when he first came here, wasn’t he?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2288.0,2322.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"GOLDBERG:  That’s right.  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And there are others.  For example, Lazar Weiner.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yes?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Didn’t he conduct the chorus at one time, and then he quit?  Then he left and went to the Arbeter Ring?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  He definitely did.  He definitely — I don’t know offhand to tell you where and what.  He definitely did it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  He wrote a work, Leib Boymer.  It was a, for a, it was a music for a ballet.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  That was performed at one of the concerts of the full, of the chor.  In the late ‘20s or the early ‘30s.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  And, and Lazar Weiner directed it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  He wrote some music.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  He wrote it.  I, I imagine so.  I don’t, there wasn’t…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2322.0,2357.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  There wasn’t any association between the two.  Let’s say the Arbeter Ring had a big chor by that time.  And then the Philharmonic…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Had a big — I don’t know how big.  No, there was, in those, in those happy days, there was always, as I said, association.  But the fact was that there were, at that time, there were two, three choruses in New York.  Later on, although, it became the, the Philharmonic — the Philharmonic?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Who were some of the directors?  For example, somebody like Malick — Eugene Malick.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2357.0,2390.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"GOLDBERG:  Yehudi Malick came from Chicago and was a director of the chorus here for a while.  And then, and ended up in the, in, in Los Angeles, where his son was.  I think that was years, years ago.  Yehudi Malick was the head. Rauch Hoff, whom I hoped to say a few words — whom I know and worked…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah, I know, because we’re recording for Mark.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  And worked with personally.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And he came from around here?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yeah.  And no.  There were, there were a number of leaders of the choruses.  The fact that I, I don’t remember their names doesn’t mean anything.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  How about Meyer Posner?  Is that the name?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2390.0,2423.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eGOLDBERG:\u003c/strong\u003e He did.  Yes, I know it.  And that’s another one.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eAnd there were some people also — this would be around the ‘50s.  There are a number of young people.  The names may be completely unknown to you, like, like there was, after came Rauch, there was Madeline Simon, who did work here.  There was Peter, Peter Schlosser, who, who was, who conducted for many years.  There’s a whole generation of young directors who sort of begin to emerge around the ‘50s, ‘60s — around the ‘60s and so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2423.0,2467.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  Did you know Mende Schein?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  I knew Mende very well.  Personally — as, as a friend, personally.  I knew Mende very well. Or take Mende.  Mende worked in different choruses.  And there is one thing about the leaders.  His heart was in it so much.  Yeah, I knew Mende very well.  He liked it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  He was, he was a composer?  He arranged music?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  No.  Mende was not much of a composer.  But Mende was an extraordinary director.  Because of his personality — the personal, his personal attraction. Now, I knew Mende, Mende very well.  As a matter of fact, I worked, I worked with Mikhl Gelbart in shul, in the Yiddish schools.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2467.0,2507.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  Here?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  In — no, not here, but in Philadelphia.  For a year or two, we worked together. And Mikhl Gelbart left, most likely, about 30 to 40 folk, uh, songs for children.  Set this, set to music Yiddish literature, some of them very sweet, and very, and very, very capable and personable.  A pleasure to work with him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2507.0,2533.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Did Meyer Posner conduct any — I mean…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  I think he did.  I mean…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I don’t know.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  But not…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, he left a lot, he had a big collection of music.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  You know, the, the word — may I add something? That amongst the choruses, there is, there was a good chorus in Montreal.  There was a very good chorus in Toronto, which is still alive and still acting.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  That was conducted by Gartner?  Emil Gartner?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Emil Gartner.  That’s right.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  In Toronto?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  In Toronto.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  He was one…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Emil, Emil Gartner, who was not only a very fine director, he was also a very fine person, who, who died too soon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2533.0,2573.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  He was related to Helfmann, wasn’t he?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  He’s what?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  He was related to Max Helfmann?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yeah.  Yeah, he was related to Helfmann.  He was, he was a good conductor.  I knew him; I knew his wife.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  But Helfmann, like Weiner, at some point, Helfmann left.  He left that movement, didn’t he?  He sort of found it too left-wing, and he was more involved in the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Only when he moved to, to Los Angeles, I think.  And it wasn’t a matter of leaving the movement.  Because many people came and left. Malick, for example, left the movement consciously.  He didn’t like it.  He didn’t want to be linked to a left-wing chorus.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2573.0,2614.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  Why was that?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Hmmm?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Do you think he had, for political reasons, he didn’t want to be involved in a left-wing group?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  No, he, I don’t know whether a political reasons, but I remember seeing him in, in Los Angeles.  And he sort of moved away.  Yes.  It, it wasn’t, it wasn’t a, a matter of — I think it was more a matter of, of personality.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  If you had to pin down, just to describe, even, the basic difference, in a city like New York, let’s say, at peak periods, the Arbeter Ring Chor was a big chorus.  And they did a lot of this kind of thing.  But not exactly the same, but they did a lot.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  They did a lot of things by Weiner.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Or the Philharmonishe Chor was a big chor.  How would you describe the difference between the two choruses?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2614.0,2660.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eGOLDBERG:\u003c/strong\u003e It’s a, it’s a very good question.  Because I couldn’t describe it, because essentially and basically, there wasn’t a basic difference.  There was only a difference — what happened in Jewish life, this split in the moving away. That Sheyfer’s Tsvey Brider was never done by the Workmen’s Circle Chorus, for example.  That only last year did the man, whom I like very much — I con, and I respect very much — that Zalman Mlotek did a, one of Moyshe Rauch’s Fun Viglid Biz Ziglid, and did it beautifully.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2660.0,2701.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it had to take all these years. This plague of have, having been divided, and of not to, and of not, pretending that the other doesn’t exist continued for a long time.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Was Rauch associated more with the, he wasn’t associated so much with the Workmen’s Circle, was he?  Rauch?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Let me come to Rauch, in that case.  Let’s see if I said something, or there’s — I mentioned in my notes, I do mention Helfmann, and I mentioned Sheyfer, of course.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2701.0,2733.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"By the way, there is, there was definitely not limited, music was not limited only to the labor songs and so on.  The chorus was proud to do some classical music, to do a Mendelssohn or something they were very proud of.  And the…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Did they do it in the Yiddish?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  In Yiddish, yes.  Yeah, many would.  Even a Shostakovich was done by, I think by Rauch.  Translated by a Yiddish poet and so on. Let me tell you, come a little closer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2733.0,2766.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Rauch was different than the others, primarily because he was never a meshorer or a hazzan.  He was younger.  His, his Jewishness or Judaism was more in the secular schools here. He went through, was on a school, a high school, and the, and so on, spent a year with Boulanger in, in Paris.  And Rauch started as a conductor in, in the small towns in New Jersey.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2766.0,2796.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And did not become the conductor of the Philharmonic till — ooh, I would say, probably in, into the ‘50s or so.  Around that time. Rauch came to the, Rauch didn’t come to the movement.  He came to the music. Rauch was also linked and did a lot for the Yiddish theater.  For years.  For years, Moyshe Rauch was in the, was writing the music for many of the, many of the, of the Yiddish musicals.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2796.0,2826.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  On Second Avenue?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  On Second Avenue.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  You know, he has a song, Yiddish Iz Azoy Sheyn.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yiddish Iz Azoy Sheyn?  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  And I think the text is by one of the usual librettists for the theater, Lillian…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  That’s right.  As a matter of fact, Moyshe worked for theater.  He had to work for the theater to make a living.  The choruses were — income-wise, it wasn’t very, it wasn’t very livable, so to say. Moyshe came with a, his father was, I think his father was in Siberia.  Sent to Siberia.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2826.0,2859.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think Moyshe was born somewhere around there.  He came here as a few month or a year old.  At the age of one year.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eI was very close with Moyshe.  And worked with him for, I imagine, about 15, 20 years, we worked together.  My work was to write the scripts or find the scripts, and Moyshe’s was to clothe them in music. And the fascinating thing was — by the way, Moyshe was very pleasant, he was very dear.  He was a good teacher.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2859.0,2891.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The chorus liked him very much.  And he, he was very creative.  Very creative. And he has written so much music that is not known at all.  The music which we did together with the — and remember — when we did one of these operettas of ours, it was usually a chorus, soloists and one or two actors.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2891.0,2917.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There was always one that I will have, that you would have one or two actors. He included — Moyshe even used Molly Picon in one thing, in one of his plays, which was called [INAUDIBLE] Amerike  To that, that’s the way we built, we built it. I would try to prepare it.  And I thought of it last night, just how much we did.  We started out with The Bubbe’s Cholem, which means nothing. However, when you look into it, the same man, Warshowsky, wrote a song called [SOUNDS LIKE Achsitker Un Zibitz Zig Sie].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2917.0,2964.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the last line says that they celebrate the 50th marriage anniversary, and the, the Zaide, the achsitker, he falls asleep.  But the Bubbe is still awake, and she thinks of the young years.  And then the last line in the poem is that the Bubbe also fell asleep and dreamt.  And he says, [SOUNDS LIKE “Ich cholem golla chayf dal Zaiden und ein dosch mol].”  I’ll tell you some other time what she dreamt of. And on top of this, we did something together — another one.  This was many years later, where I sort of decided that it’s about time.  It’s not delicate, but it’s about time to tell what the Bubbe’s cholem, what the Bubbe dreamt about. And what the Bubbe dreamt about was really, the poems of Warshowsky.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=2964.0,3014.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  Aside from the fact that Moyshe Rauch was basically conducting for your chorus — for the folk chor — it seems from the subject matter of what you were putting together, there is nothing of a political nature that would preclude this kind of work from being performed by any other Jewish chorus.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Nothing whatsoever.  Not a drop.  On the contrary.  That it should have been, it should have been a matter of pride in bringing certain values to the, to the audience.  I could go through — here. This was done, by the way, this was done in ’59, on the occasion of the 100th birthday of Sholem Aleichem.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3014.0,3055.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He was born in 1859.  And since he was the one who discovered and wrote beautifully about Warshowsky, we did The Bubbe’s Cholem, which told about life in, on the, in Europe.  The Bubbe sees a, woven into a story with all the Warshowsky songs.  We did, after this, [SOUNDS LIKE Ob Nit Ochecher]. I think it’s Peretz’ story.  It was only made easy.  We changed what didn’t work.  I had to adapt some of the text to Moyshe’s music.  But that’s what it was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3055.0,3089.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And music-wise, it was a beautiful thing. Oh, and we did [SOUNDS LIKE Der Zinger, Der Zinger Fernoyt.]  What was Der Zinger Fernoyt?  It was Gebirtig. Gebirtig, who, who spent his life in Krakow, who wrote for the Yiddish theater, who left probably about 30, 40 well-known songs, and who was killed by the Nazis.  And Der Zinger Fernoyt was a, based on the life and the songs of Gebirtig.  All his music Gebirtig wrote. Now there’s one, little Moyshe did one little poem called Shifrele’s Portret.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3089.0,3129.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When Gebirtig was kept in, in, in the Nazi prison before he was killed, he wrote a, a poem to his little daughter, Shifrele.  Shifrele, who survived and lived in Israel later. And Moyshe wrote a small — only an eight-line poem — Shifrele’s Portret.  Outside of, outside of that, the poetry was, and through it again, it was huge light over there. Then we did something which was extraordinary and very good to do.  And that was the Der Gram Fun Yid Mit Lied — How “Yid” Rhymes with Lied.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3129.0,3171.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Again, the line is taken from a poet, who was Itzik Manger. His poetry — he was a great poet.  A great poet, really.  And died in, in 19, in ’68.  In Israel, in a hospital.  And we took the poems of Itzik Manger — beautiful poems — and then Moyshe never enjoyed anything more. Because if you give a, if you have a beautiful text, it’s easy to find beautiful music for it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3171.0,3202.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And if we did the, Das Lied Vas Much, Das Lied fun, Der Gram Fun Yid, Fun Yid to, Fun Yid Mit Lied.  We wrote a, we did one piece called Su Gasse Ban Zaiden — Visiting Grandfather. Where do you get a Zaide?  We found Mendele Mocher Sforim, the sole, the founder of Modern Yiddish poetry, and we went, it took us, took us, he was visiting.  And we went for a visit.  And out of Mendele, we picked one book, which is an extraordinary bit of literature, “Benjamin The Third”.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3202.0,3241.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Binyoman ha Slishe, it’s called.  Masoas Binyoman ha Slishe. The story of a Jewish, of the poor Jew somewhere in an Eastern town in Europe who decides to set out on a voyage to find the Messiah.  He’s tired of it.  [SOUNDS LIKE Gib matzabrin sheminut].  So he starts out, and Mendele writes this, and he calls it Masoas — the Voyagers — Binyoman A Slishe, because there was once another Benjamin.  Again, a portrait of a, of life…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3241.0,3272.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  Can I ask you one question?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  During the war years, there was organized something called the Soviet-American Anti-Fascist Committee.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Hmmm.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  And it was during this time period that Itzik Feffer came to America, and Mikhoels was in America.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  My question is, was there a special effort at that time to compose music to texts that would have been reflective of our alliance with the Soviet Union at that time?  Things that would have been…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3272.0,3304.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eGOLDBERG:\u003c/strong\u003e Only one.  Yeah, one, which was, we did consciously.  The, and that was, we did — I meant Rauch and I — we took poetry, the poetry written by some of the Yiddish poets in the Soviet Union. Most of them, all of, any poetry we did, those were killed on the, on the, on August the, in 1952.  We took Markish and Feffer and Holick and five, six, seven others, and we called something the — I don’t remember.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3304.0,3341.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Something about yerusha, about heritage, about the narratives, heritage and so on.  We did that. And even Sheyfer already wrote music by the, by the Soviet writers.  There was a lot of music of, and of, music of the Holocaust written.  A lot, and we didn’t do a single — by the way, we didn’t do a single anniversary of the, without using this. I purposely brought this as, as an example.  It’s nothing but the 43rd anniversary of the, of the Warsaw Ghetto.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3341.0,3380.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  Uprising, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  It’s — exactly.  And we, oh, here’s the English.  But the 43rd commemoration in Warsaw of the Warsaw Ghetto.  And the poem in it were there, and I, and the Gebirtig — which I didn’t mention before — that Gebirtig did, Gebirtig’s Hasprent, was, the text was, was practically the text of all these, of all these commemorations that we had.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3380.0,3412.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we had, and a great deal was, a great deal was written.  Nothing special when Feffer was here. What was done when Feffer was here, I think two of his books were published.  Two, two by different groups — to the left, by the way.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  When we started our discussion…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  What?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  When we started our discussion, we were speaking about the first chor in Chicago.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Which was obviously, by its name, of a socialistic…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Definitely.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  …direction.  What happened to the socialism aspect of, of the Jewish choruses?  It seems as if, as time moves on, the political aspect is not that significant.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3412.0,3454.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eGOLDBERG:\u003c/strong\u003e I wouldn’t even say this.  Don’t you see?  Or the literature from which the topics were taken was basically — and I’m referring to all Yiddish literature — an, an expression of great humanism, if it wasn’t socialism. All the literature — I cannot think of a poem which had been, to which music had been set…which would not have… yeah there are many love songs in there,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3454.0,3488.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"but I can’t think of any which would not have the eh…eh the eh… which wouldn’t have the social significance to not for me… I picked up Sholem Aleichem’s “Hodel”. Morris wrote the music to it. It was never done by anyone else but, “Hodel” was a poem about Hodel following her, her husband — her new husband — to Siberia.  Written by Sholem Aleichem.  And the, and the Yiddish, the Yiddish poetry had it all the time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3488.0,3522.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There are, Feffer’s Ich Bin a Yid was a very proud declaration of, of, of his soul.  Feffer, who lived and wrote as a, as a socialist poet and became very, very popular. There was, it wasn’t a matter of it being diminished.  It was, I don’t know what to do with Avrum Reyzen’s many poems written, written before he came to America, even.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3522.0,3558.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Who they definitely carry a basic social, a social contents within.  The, yeah. I know I remember, we did a Reyzen, a Reyzen thing.  Calling it, calling it [SOUNDS LIKE Ich Con de Velt.  Ich Con de Velt.]\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Why?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Why?  Because Reyzen had an extraordinary poem.  But really extraordinary.  The music that went out, it was already Rauch’s. A poem which says that if, if he had everything and, and the world had nothing, he would come — no.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3558.0,3591.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If the world had a, if he had everything and the world had nothing, he would come and share with her and give her.  If the world had everything and he has nothing, he would, he would come to the world and demand, and demand what’s coming to him. And this Ikh un di velt poem, an extraordinary bit of poetry, of Avrum Reyzen, would have been lost, if not for the music.  And if you begin to work on an archive and decide what to keep, if not for an extraordinary bit, a small poem of music which, which Rauch has written or which the others have, which others have written.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3591.0,3628.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The story of Benjamin The Third is a, is a social, has all the social significances in it, as any great literature would have.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Did Malick ever write any music? \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Did what?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Did Malick ever write any music?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  I am not aware of anything, and I don’t think he wrote any music at all.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Just to clarify, I mean — and then I want to ask you something else about the archives.  But, for example, the work, in an Arbeter Ring Chor concert…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  …whatever — 1930s, even.  They might have sung a song called [SOUNDS LIKE Ikh Dank di Got fur Amerike.]  And they have it in their book.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3628.0,3666.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"GOLDBERG:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  You wouldn’t find that song on the program of the Philharmonishe Chor?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Well, you’d find another song, which expressed the same thing about America.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It does?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Expressed the same thing.  I did, with Moyshe, something.  Oh, I forgot.  I did something, which was called Oyich Ikh Zing Amerike, and I took the line from Langston Hughes — I, Too, Sing America.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Oyich Ikh Zing Amerike, which was filled of praises and of the criticism of America, and especially stressing that in the last analysis, let’s see what we gave to America and what America gave to us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3666.0,3705.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eLEVIN:\u003c/strong\u003e It doesn’t matter.  It’s a question of social awareness.  That’s what it is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3705.0,3742.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eGOLDBERG:\u003c/strong\u003e It, it was — eppes, no.  It was a matter also of, of not have a narrow social awareness. I remember I met these people, just because this man, the man — the rabbi — he takes off, he puts on the dress of a poor, of a peasant, goes into the woods.  Instead of going to Selikhos to the synagogue, goes into the woods; next, brings wood to the, to the poor woman.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3742.0,3758.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I, it’s a wonderful thing. And I did, and I probably told them that the same story was, is told by a, about the Besht — about the Baal Shem Tov. Only there is a sense of a crying child on his, on the way, where he goes to the synagogue, he hears a child cry.  So he stopped and tries to, and tries to take care of the child before he comes to the synagogue.  Terrific bit of socialism in it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3758.0,3784.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  Absolutely.  What kind of archives do we have of programs?  How can we find programs that go back to all of these concerts, whether it’s Detroit or Chicago, or concert programs, photographs, reviews in the paper?  What kind of…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  First, you — for reviews, you’ll have to go to the papers.  We gave, you go, turn to YIVO. We gave — the “we” is being I.  I gave to the YIVO.  I really gave it to Mrs. Mlotek, gave the archives of the, of the Musik Farband —","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3784.0,3819.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the Musical Alliance.  I gave the full archives of, of Moyshe Rauch to Chana Mlotek — full, I have full faith in her, that that will be used the, the way it should be used.  So there they are. I think that YIVO has a lot.  All I have left are some paint, some, there was also, I have a full file, which should be looked into, of the old Music Alliance.  Because I had it, and I, and there was no one else to take care of it.  So I did.  For quite a few years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3819.0,3853.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  So you have this?  Now?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  You have, we have that.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, you have it?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  We could, we could…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  And I, for example, will even have, there’s, these things every — there was not a chorus which didn’t publish some of this. This is Detroit, and, you know, that’s the story where I had to convince them that it’s all right to believe in the memory of a rabbi.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Okay.  So this is now, for example, this is very interesting.  And this is the kind of thing that we could — you have this.  If we arrange a meeting, we could go over into….  It doesn’t matter if it’s in Yiddish or not.  But the fact, the fact of what it tells you just in the program, it doesn’t matter. Here is, this is from 1961.  Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3853.0,3891.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"GOLDBERG:  This is, it’s ’60, it’s ’61, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Commemorating the centennial of the Civil War.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Now, here you have something…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Of the Gettysburg Address.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  …of the ’48.  Oh, this is ’71.  That’s Rauch’s.  And that’s the, the ’48 — is there another? — there.  I, I always turn to the wrong page.  The ’48 is the jubilee concert…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  This is even…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  …of the Jewish People’s Philharmonic Chorus.  This was in ’71. These were around, and they were, also could be found in the cities.  I think that Chicago probably has much more.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3891.0,3925.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  You mean in the way of archives?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  I mean, I mean in archives.  There was nothing…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That they would have it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  …nothing else.  They wouldn’t have, they wouldn’t have waste it.  Wasted it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  I mean, the Yiddish is very easy, anyway.  It’s just…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  The what?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  This is easy Yiddish.  But here, for example, is the program of what they sang.  Of course, this is as late as 1961.  But here they’re singing something commemorating the centennial of the Civil War. But that — well, yeah.  That’s right.  That’s ’61. [SOUNDS LIKE Hubben Mir a Niggin Vul.]\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  And this is printed by Weinberg.  That’s a…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  That’s a well-known transcontinental publisher.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  They did the Gettysburg address at Weinberg, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3925.0,3960.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That’s, that gets done all over.  Okay.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSo anyway, there’s a lot of material here.  You have photographs that are probably very interesting, too?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  We have some.  We have some photos.  But most of it is still in the hands, in the hands of the YIVO.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Of the YIVO?  But your office is where the other things — that’s the office of the Gidowsky Foundation?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  That’s the Gidowsky Foundation.  It’s also the office of the Yidishe Kultur — of the magazine which I edit.  Of the monthly…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It’s a monthly?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  No, it’s a bi-monthly.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  A bi-monthly.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  [SOUNDS LIKE Sin shtick a choyuch] for a monthly, yeah?  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And it’s all Yiddish?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  It’s what?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3960.0,3995.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"LEVIN:  It’s all in Yiddish?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  It’s all Yiddish.  Has been all Yiddish for six…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  And what’s the name of this magazine?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  …for 62 years.  And it’s called Yidishe Kultur.  And it’s still there, and it’s alive, and it’s still…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Is it distributed outside of New York, or mostly in New York?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  No, not at all.  Mostly New York, and we deliver it outside of, outside the whole world.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  By the way, but there’s still the newspaper, the Freiheit.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  It still publishes?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  No, no.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Not at all.  It’s been out for the past 11, 12 years.  But the New York Public Library has a full, you’ll find all…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Wait.  It’s only out for ten or 12 years.  Before that, they still published?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=3995.0,4029.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"GOLDBERG:  That’s right.  And you’ll…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  That’s what I thought.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  You’ll find the Freiheit at the, at the New York Public Library.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Jewish Currents — is that still being published?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Jewish Currents is not only being published, it has decided to grow from being a small magazine, it became a big magazine.  But still the Insight — the Insight is still there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  The, in the period of, let’s say, 1949, ’50, ’51, during this period of time of the era of the malakh ha-maves, by which I mean McCarthy…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4029.0,4071.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"GOLDBERG:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Yeah.  Was this a problem for any for these choruses?  Was that era, was that, were people at all concerned?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  No.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  Did that, you know, was there any going after, was there any…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  There may be some.  I’m trying to think.  I frankly am not aware of anything.  No.  No, no, there wasn’t. And they continued.  They were, through all these, through all these years.  And it was more difficult to get some coming together in Jewish life, for some reason.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4071.0,4105.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So you know, you got, you got used to being apart, so to say. But, but no.  There were, there was, there was none whatsoever.  The choruses existed.  I can’t think of anything at all through that period.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eLEVIN:  What about Maxim Brodyn?  Was he involved in any?  Do you know Maxim Brodyn?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  I knew him very well.  Maxim Brodyn was only, outside of Jewish music and outside of song and outside of, and outside of — I don’t think Maxim Brodyn has any other interests.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4105.0,4141.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But very intelligent, by the way.  Very intelligent.  A good worker.  And he was the head of the Music Alliance. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  A few minutes ago, we were beginning our discussion about the Jewish Music Alliance.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  I think Neil was asking you about Mr. Brodyn?  And you mentioned a few things about him.  Maybe we should go back to the beginning.  When did the Jewish Music Alliance first originate?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  I’ll be guessing there.  But I, I think not later than the ‘20s.  Not later and maybe earlier.  It would be about the middle of the ‘20s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4141.0,4181.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  Who was its initial director?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Its initial director was — I don’t know.  But I know that it — well, I’ll give you a few names who were there. There was a woman, Hugelson, a writer.  Then there was Isaac Runch, who was the head of it.  Then there was Lamed Miller, a Yiddish poet.  Then there was — all these are before Brodyn.  Then there was Hugelson or Runch, yes.  Miller.  Janowsky.  And Brodyn came towards the end, I think, for a while.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4181.0,4229.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  After the war?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  But, yeah.  But there was someone before.  There was someone whom I — and I should remember the name.  Oh it was there. The point was with them that there, you did a lot of work.  A, they organized, helped organize the choruses.  B, above all, they published material.  They published material.  I know that my “Hodel” — the “Hodel” that I prepared with, with Rauch. And “Hodel” was, was published by the, by the Music Alliance.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4229.0,4264.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSEROTA:\u003c/strong\u003e They published music of Sheyfer?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4264.0,4294.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eGOLDBERG:\u003c/strong\u003e They published Sheyfer’s music, they published Bailin and Sheyfer.  They published of, of my own — that I mentioned — the, the “Hodel”. They also published something before.  They published a lot of the music, the music of Sheyfer.  And Sheyfer was, was published, really. And so, and so they did with the, with the other, with the other work which was done.  The only thing they could do, really, was to publish the material in order to help the existing choruses.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4294.0,4325.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  Was there material of Sheyfer that was not published?  Are there manuscripts?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  I don’t know.  But I consider your question as a very basic one.  I have no idea whether I could recommend anyone to help you, unless it would be in the archives, which we gave to the, to the YIVO. And I wouldn’t be surprised at all that there is, there are some of the Sheyfer things which were unpublished.  It’s a very good question.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4325.0,4359.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  I had heard…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Either when Sheyfer was in Chicago or when he went to New York, he entered a competition in Moscow for a, I think — I’m not sure if it was choral work or piano work.  He entered a competition, and he won a second prize — first prize going to Shostakovich. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yeah, that’s interesting, yes.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  That’s just a story.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  I’m not aware of that, yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Just as a reference to the level of his talent as a composer.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Uh-huh.  Sheyfer, he was, I didn’t, I wasn’t aware of this.  Yeah, I respect his work. That was — it’s also, what we have to notice is Sheyfer’s influence on the group which came later.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4359.0,4401.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sheyfer’s influence. As a matter of fact, they, they’ve, a sense was that they followed, they followed Sheyfer’s pioneering.  The fact that I stressed that Tsvey Brider was, and I admire him for that very, very much.  It was only about 15, 17 years since Peretz had written that and published and printed — had it printed in 199, in 1895, in a little magazine, Yunta Brezlach, which Peretz published in Warsaw.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4401.0,4437.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"For him to discover that Tsvey Brider, and that Tsvey Brider was really a small part of a, of a dramatic poem by Peretz called “While Sewing Somebody Else’s Wedding Dress”.  The Yiddish was Bay Mayn Ata ein Frumten Huppen Klayt.  For him to discover it and set it to music. And the question was raised before.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4437.0,4462.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSEROTA:\u003c/strong\u003e I guess we should look at Mr. Bailin’s book to see more…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4462.0,4493.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eGOLDBERG:\u003c/strong\u003e Bailin would be a source. There’s nobody left, by the way. Bailin was also in Chicago at, in those years.  And he later became the educational director of the Workmen’s Circle, after his years in Chicago.  And he was very close to this Chicago [INAUDIBLE]. He even wrote a, a, one poem.  Well-written, but it was a poem.  Which I think was set to music, most likely, by Sheyfer, by Sheyfer. Chicago did, it did a great deal. Would it be all right for us — for me — to read a list of things that Rauch did for…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4493.0,4532.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  Sure, sure.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Just, just to record them.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Fine.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  In its variety.  I prepared them, it would be, it wouldn’t, it wouldn’t, they shouldn’t be missed. Di Bubbe’s Cholem, based on Warshowsky’s poetry.  Ob Nit Ochecher, based on Peretz’ writing.  Peretz’ Hasidic tale.  Der Zinger Fernoyt, based on Gebirtig’s writings. Gebirtig was in Krakow.  Motre Gebirtig, later killed by the Nazis. Der Gram Fun Yid Mit Lied, based on the writing of Itzik Manger.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4532.0,4568.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Extraordinary poetry and well-done.  Oh, yeah.  Buncher Sveig — again, a Peretz piece criticizing the labor movement of the day for, for not being militant enough.  “The Operator and the Poet”, based on Rosenfeld.  “”Hodel, based on Tevye. And I wrote this thing — a, a very fine, good operetta, “Hodel”.  Hodel is the one who, who follows her husband to Siberia. Su Gasse Ban Zaiden, based on the works of Mendele Mocher Sforim.  Notice a Yiddish literature is here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4568.0,4601.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"A concert version of Goldfaden’s Der Kisher Bar Humpe.  Goldfaden’s is accepted as the father of the Yiddish theater.  And we did this with, I think it was Bonis — Ben Bonis — and Emma, and her, and his wife. We did Der Kisher Bar Humpe.  It was a beautiful thing, too.  Zing Ma Lied fur Yitzhak Leibisch Peretz.  Again, we took all that was worthwhile out of Peretz. Yochob A Naya Velt Par Shaffen — that’s Avrum Reyzen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4601.0,4633.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Oyich Ikh Zing Amerike, based on Yiddish poetry in the United States.  Der Abikel Neiden, oh, based on the Soviet poetry.  Ikh Hun Dervelt is again all Reyzen.  Benjamin the Third is Mendele; Fishke is Mendele. And I want to mention some people that — outside of myself. Gut Bolden der Amerike were Younin.  Beautiful poet, a fine poet.  Written, done by Moyshe.  Esther ha Malkah, a Purim story.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4633.0,4678.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  Yeah.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Esther ha Malkah.  Done by Moyshe and music, the music in it megillat music, but it’s Moyshe’s music.  And…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  The text is by Wolf Younin.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  That’s right.  And that’s by Wolf, by Wolf Younin.  Das, Das Messerole, I think, was by Heifetz.  And Oyfen Fiddle, based on, written by Runch, also. And I mentioned before that Fun Viglid Biz Ziglid was done about two, three years ago, by Zalman Mlotek.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4678.0,4715.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I can have only the warmest words of gratefulness and praise for what he did.  He did a beautiful, a beautiful job. Now, what else have we not covered?  Please tell me.  Maybe I didn’t say enough.  And maybe we should. There, and I purposely used the Yiddish name for the chorus — the chor.  The chor became the life interest of a, hundreds of people who were in the choruses.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4715.0,4751.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was their interest, it was their, it, it, it was their link with the people.  And it brought so much meaning to their life. I say this because I had my experiences to speak to the choruses.  Often, you had to defend your text or, often, explain text.  And I had so much admiration for them. If this had been done five years ago, there still would have been a group of people who should have been here, sitting on these seats and sharing their experiences.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4751.0,4788.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"As the situation is now, I don’t think any of the original group is still around.  Or any of the, of the singers who came in the ‘30s, ‘40s. It’s, and, and they were proud of their work.  They were proud, and they were proud of belonging to the, to the, to the chorus.  To them, it meant, to them it, it, it meant their Yiddishkeit, in a sense.  It meant their Yiddishkeit. And when I spoke of, of the Naya Haggadah, if Helfmann, I, I did the, I did a bit of a Naya Haggadah, but I did it more for the, for the schools.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4788.0,4828.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I saw the Haggadah, which, as early as 1940, I think.  But what Helfmann did.  And that’s why I sort of insist on inviting Saida Gerrard. It was such a beautiful thing.  It took all Pesach and gave it a new meaning.  And took all Pesach and gave it a, it has depth enough, it goes back to, towards a, a historic origin.  But it, it was linked with what was happening now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4828.0,4859.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was linked with the, with the, with the Holocaust.  It was linked with the, with the statement that we shall, we shall be alive, we shall continue.  And it, it, it meant so much. It was also important for the group, for the chor zinger — the chorus people — that they had a consciousness that they’re doing something national and something big.  I should have said this. And the, but they were, who were the choral, the chor zingers?  Cloak-makers, dressmakers, carpenters — whatever they were.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4859.0,4899.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It’s true, by the way, that they started with, way down, way below.  It was mostly, mostly, they were the working people of the time.  And, and they did. And things would have been lost completely.  I always, when I speak of this, I always stress that the Mayn Yingele — Rosenfeld’s Mayn Yingele — would have been lost to us if they weren’t there to pick the song up again and to bring it, bring back not only the song, but bring back the Yingele. Not only the Yingele, but the groan and the hope of a certain period in the life of our people here, so that they….","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4899.0,4941.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I’m, I’m, I’m glad to, to praise you for your, what you’re doing, in, in, in trying to save and keep these things alive. You know, it’s the old tradition of the, our people not to, not to, not to allow spiritual values to be lost.  You know?  According to Jewish legend, you can’t even throw away a, a page, a page of the, of the, of a mahkzor or a siddur, of a prayer book.  You have to bury it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4941.0,4975.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You don’t even throw it away. And it was this awareness, I feel, in the choruses, that there they came, they come, in a, a land which is completely new.  And, and it was also, if you please, an important statement in America.  An important statement to what democracy is or should be. They brought a treasure of music with them, they brought a treasure of music which goes back thousands of years, which goes back a, hundreds of years.  Even which goes back to the Rossi’s, in the Middle Ages.  They brought it, and they insist that, that it, it continue and be, and be and, and be left for children and grandchildren.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=4975.0,5015.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It’s, it, it wasn’t, it wasn’t so simple.  I wouldn’t be saying this if I didn’t have, had the opportunity to feel the, the pulse of these choruses. Often, I was invited to come and, and do a bit of greeting at the one of the concerts.  And it was such a joy to see those cloak-makers and dressmakers and other makers dressed up, with full sense of yontif — of holiday.  That it, it was really something very, very exciting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5015.0,5049.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  Was that primarily choruses in the New York area or the New Jersey area?  Did you ever go to performances of the choruses out of town?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Oh, yes.  I told you before, I had to go to Detroit to convince them that it’s all right to sing Peretz’ Ob, Ob Nit Ochecher, and it’s all right, it’s not too religious.  It’s all right.  Oh, yes. I was, I was in the, at, I was even in Los Angeles, when Malick had a Yiddish chorus.  And there was a young man who had an Anglo-Jewish chorus.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5049.0,5083.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Someone called Vail.  A very bright and very capable, probably ended up somewhere in Hollywood.  And who sang — he was an Anglo, a younger group. Oh, yes.  I, I attended choruses.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Did you know a Morris Browda?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  The what?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  A conductor.  Morris Browda in Los Angeles?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  I think so.  Yeah.  Yeah, I think I know the name.  Definitely, definitely.  Yeah.  I, I know the name.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eThere were also, by the way, this, some of these con, con, this sense, which I am trying to convey here, was also a part of the basic understanding of the, of the choral leaders.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5083.0,5124.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Of the choral leaders.  Moyshe Rauch would have drifted away, so to say, to the general sphere of American creativity. Moyshe Rauch wouldn’t.  He wouldn’t.  He felt that the, for the sake of his father, who was in Siberia, and for the sake, for his own thinking and his own upbringing, that he, he’d stay and leave whatever he has to give in, in Yiddish.  There was, there was this, this awareness.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5124.0,5153.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER:  Did certain experiences in the immigrant experience find its way into their music, like the Triangle fire, for example, that took place here in New York? \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Hmmm?  Yes.  And I’m glad you asked that, you know?  I’m glad you asked it.  Because I had it in Ikh Zing Amerike.  In there, we had the Triangle fire. Moyshe wrote the music.  I based one element there of — I don’t remember, remember who was the actor with us.  I even took a part of it, which I could share, from Sholem Asch’s book, in which he describes the Triangle fire.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5153.0,5197.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSEROTA:\u003c/strong\u003e While we were changing film — changing tape, rather — you mentioned some information about Mr. Eugene Malick, and a personal situation with your own family.  Maybe you want to tell us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5197.0,5228.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eGOLDBERG:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, that’s characteristic.  There was an old saying, that of the dead there’s nothing but good.  We say in Latin, you don’t speak well, only well.  But I had this incident. We had what was known as a mittel shul.  A mittel shul means a high school.  A Yiddish high school, only on weekends.  And my son was in the chorus with — and Malick was a singer, by the way, that did a lot with the Yiddish schools. I had mentioned before Gelbart.  I had spent a year with Gelbart in Philadelphia, many years ago.  Extraordinary, what they did with children. But Malick led the chorus of the mittel shul.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5228.0,5266.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And in that chorus… and in that chorus was my own son, David who sang in the chorus. Malick decided that David can’t sing in the chorus. He didn’t like, he said voice David has no voice, where I told him to leave the chorus. David left the chorus. And next week, when they met again, and Malick went into the class to do his singing, David marched up and down with a sign in both languages — Yiddish and English — that he, that the chorus is unfair.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5266.0,5305.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That people were trying to get a Jewish education, and its, it’s not right. Whereupon, as a result of this, there was a meeting between Malick, the director of the group — of the mittel, of the mittel shul — and my son, David.  David probably was about 12, 13. And the decision was that all, it’s all right.  David may sit in the chorus, with the chorus always, but he shouldn’t open his mouth.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5305.0,5340.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He shouldn’t sing. And poor David, young enough to, to see that this, young enough to, to accept it, though he felt that there was something wrong.  They — so that was the decision. And I mentioned it merely that there was something personal in Malick.  But, and especially if you were, if you’re a director of such a group, the personal is so important.  It’s so important that you come across.  It’s so important that they sense in you that you mean, that it means, the, means something.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5340.0,5374.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Malick had a certain trait.  It’s unfair to say those things about him.  May he rest where he is.  But he had certain traits which were there, and that was my personal — I, I never, never could forgive him for the nonsense of sending David out of — all he wanted was a Jewish education. And so he didn’t have a good voice.  As a matter of fact, he has a very good voice, and he sings music well.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  This was in the Bronx? \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  This was in the heart of Manhattan, down near 14th Street.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Yeah?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Not, a group singing with the — it was 40, 60.  In that it was — but in a Jewish school…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  What school was it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5374.0,5414.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"GOLDBERG:  It was the mittel shul.  Meeting on Broadway, a meeting on the 14th Street and — on Fifth Avenue, near 14th Street.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  When you say the mittel shul, weren’t there various different types of Yiddish schools?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  That’s exactly the trouble with us.  If there weren’t, maybe we would have lasted longer.  Yes.  The trouble, the, there were four types of Yiddish schools, according to four groups in Jewish life, with their orientation and their understanding.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5414.0,5445.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There was the Workmen’s Circle school, where I became a teacher, at the age of 18 or 19, in Toronto.  With certain socialist leanings.  And it was very natural, for the time, to do it. There was the Sholem Aleichem school, headed by Lehrer, with the, with their approach, that — purely culture; no political, political thread, trend in it.  Just culture. There was the, the so-called Farband, or the Jewish National Workers’ Alliance, with labor Zionist leadings — leanings.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5445.0,5483.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They also taught Hebrew already. And then there was a breakaway in the Workmen’s school.  It was a left-wing school, so schools of the order.  They had the real schools.  The schools of the order. So there were four types of schools, practically saying the same thing, in a sense.  And the fact that the labor Zionist schools were leading, leaning more towards, towards Zionism didn’t have much to do with it. But still and all, the fact was that the Workmen’s Circle school, or the left-wing schools — and I was very much involved with the left wing —","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5483.0,5520.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that it, it took, it maybe took us a while, that as, as far as being traditional Jewish, without the synagogue.  As being, as recognizing the holidays, recognizing the language, and so on and so forth, there was, there was really no basic difference. But it took a long time to realize that.  Had we become a joint expression of Jewish education, we could have lasted until today, instead of the, the, there are just little spots, little bits left now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5520.0,5554.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  In terms of the mittel shul, there was a mittel shul from the left-wing group in Manhattan?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Of course. \u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  And were there in other areas also?  Was there one in the Bronx?  Was there one in Brooklyn?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  There was — no.  The, that’s, that’s not so easy.  There was, though. There was the Bronx mittel shul, which only had two — had year one and two.  And Brooklyn mittel shul, which had year one and two.  And the Central mittel shul, called the Centrale, which had four years. So after the second year of mittel shul — of the high school — they came down to the, to the Central one here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5554.0,5583.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  Did each one of them have a chorus?  Or only the Central one had a chorus?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  No, they all, they all had singing.  I, I can’t give you a full answer.  There’s no question that they had singing.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  But Malick conducted the Central one?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Malick, yeah.  Or Malick…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Who worked in the other ones?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Oh, there was, there was Albert.  I forget his first name.  And there was Gerthberg.  Two — there were two young, young people, a number of young people who were very good.  Fine musicians and good teachers, as a matter of fact.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5583.0,5621.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the shulas, as I mentioned, as before, Gelbart was in the, in the Philadelphia schools.  They did a, a great deal of work with the shulas. As a matter of fact, Rauch started his teaching in the, in the so-called shulas.  As Rauch’s wife — a dancer — Lillian Shapiro, who was with Martha Graham, was teaching dancing. The, the aim there was to really, the aim was, it — the feeling you got was there was a hunger for culture.  There was a need, a hunger for culture.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5621.0,5659.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSEROTA:\u003c/strong\u003e In a different area — let’s say, in terms of Hebrew education — where there was a Board of Jewish Education — they sometimes would have choral festivals.  And there would be choruses from different types of schools.  Hebrew schools, or whatever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5659.0,5692.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eGOLDBERG:\u003c/strong\u003e I have a double answer for you.  Never.  Until the first attempt was made, in Los Angeles, to create a central, centralized shula for all types.  And it was, for a few years, quite successful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5692.0,5725.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That was, quite, many years ago. I remember meeting young Hirshbern — who was the head of the Y here — as a student, still, there.  And only, only there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBut however, though, how — to join this question, the chorus went to the Israeli central affairs a few times.  I think Rauch led a group of the chorus there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  To the Zimriya, in Israel.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  The — exactly.  The Zimriya.  Rauch, Rauch led the group, the, a little bit, a group of the chorus.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5725.0,5760.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSPEAKER:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes.  You mentioned several times there’s this hunger people have for culture, and how, and you seem to remember the depth of, and the scope of how participating in the choruses filled people’s lives.  Do you remember specific experiences that you could describe?  Things which made a deep impression on you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5760.0,5796.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eGOLDBERG:\u003c/strong\u003e No.  I can’t.  I can tell you, though, I can remember a chorus crying when you sang some of the ghetto songs.  And being, it being difficult for some to go through with the rehearsal.  Because of that there was a great deal of, of feeling. I remember — and I brought this — which was interesting.  This was done in ’22 and 50 — ’72.  I think ’72.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5796.0,5832.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"This is something I call “A Song to the Singers”.  The Yiddish is Der Zinger a Gezang.  I wrote this for them. As a matter of fact, you should keep this.  It, and it was celebrating the 50th year.  And there was such a profound feeling.  It was so…. I, by the way, I also was the narrator.  It was where?  It was carried through and the — oh, the Tully Hall here.  The Tully Hall. And the audience — as, as many as there were seats.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5832.0,5868.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was a profound sense of, well, we made it.  We’re here.  It was the 50th year.  What a great, a great deal of feeling.  There was a great deal of love for the choruses that I felt. And, and I had never heard them sing [SOUNDS LIKE Zog nit keynmol] with dry eyes.  Or I never heard them sing an old Rosenfeld song, [SOUNDS LIKE Such Vit Nit du Milten Drenen]— Don’t Look For Me Where the Myrtles Grow — and so on, without a profound, inner sense.  You practically could sense the pain that was there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5868.0,5910.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There’s a personal, a person — a good question — thanks, Rob.  There is a personal relationship.  A personal.  And, and a personal feeling for it. I know that the, I mentioned Peter Schlosser as a young conductor.  Peter Schlosser and my daughter, Susan, published a tape of, on one side, Mordkhe Gebirtig songs, and on the other side, Warshowsky songs. Now, notice what it is.  It basically is yerusha — heritage.  That’s what it is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5910.0,5944.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We took two of them.  Only the two of them singing.  And it was very like and used, use, and, and, and it, it meant a lot. It is also — I would also take your question over to the children in the, at the — age-wise, they would be, at that time, about 14 to 17 — 13 to 16, really — in the mittel shuls, who felt very deeply — very deeply — about the songs they were singing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5944.0,5977.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSEROTA:\u003c/strong\u003e I have seen some programs for concerts of the chor in Chicago.  And occasionally, they would invite guest artists to participate with them.  Do you recall any such guest artists who would be particularly famous?  Or people who, in addition to fame, had some sort of philosophic link with the general philosophy of the choir?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=5977.0,6014.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"GOLDBERG:  No.  I’d say that the people invited had a, had a link with the Yiddish theater.  Mostly invited.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eI know I mentioned before — whom did I mention?  That Moyshe used in [ SOUNDS LIKE Gut Bolden der Amerike]…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Molly Picon?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Oh, Molly Picon.  Yes.  I even had, at some of these, I had even invited — there’s Picon, there’s Ben Bonus, who was very — there.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  Did Paul Robeson ever sing with the choir?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=6014.0,6044.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eGOLDBERG:\u003c/strong\u003e I don’t remember that.  On occasion, I know that he was around, and was very much liked, and so on.  But singing?  I don’t think so.  I don’t. I remember him singing at the Madison Square Garden, and singing Yiddish songs, that I only wished that some Yiddish, that some yiddin would sing Yiddish songs the way, the way he did it. And I remember an occasion of, where Paul Robeson sang.  And he missed a song.  And we’re sitting at coffee after that — the usual coffee after an affair.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=6044.0,6081.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I mentioned to him that he, that he missed an old cradle song.  An old song.  “When you, my child, will grow up, you’ll, you’ll begin to realize the difference there is between the rich and poor,” and so on. And he sang it to a group of about eight, ten of us, as quiet as you could sing it — the chorus.  That I’ll, until, until this day, I am sorry that we did not, that we did not, that we don’t have a copy of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=6081.0,6115.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He also did something.  I was teaching at Queens College for about 12, 14 years, teaching Yiddish and teaching Yiddish literature.  And I once did, I took Zog nit keynmol.  I brought to the class Zog nit keynmol, sung by about four or five different people, amongst them Paul Robeson.  Without telling them, of course.  Beforehand. And then I asked the class — this was at Queens — which one was the most moving of Zog nit keynmol?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=6115.0,6155.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And without fail, all of them pointed to the one which was sung by Paul Robeson. You know that on his last visit to the Soviet Union, he — and they couldn’t stop him, then — he sang Zog nit keynmol.  In Yiddish, of course.  As the last song.  A sad visit of his, but you may mention it. And I, I know how many times I was stirred by his singing.  By his Zog nit keynmol.  I also know how, how often, how the chorus was always stirred by singing Zog, Zog nit keynmol.  It meant a great deal.  And it had to mean a great deal. And when I mentioned before doing Gebirtig — Niggun Mordkhe.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=6155.0,6202.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We did Gebirtig’s songs, songs of the, songs of the ghetto.  Did, in — the choruses, the choruses did them. I’m sorry I didn’t, I didn’t bring you a lineup of, of songs.  But it’s true that when you look at the programs, you find the things they did — the variety.  Very versatile.  But, but still a, the, but still, they considered themselves, that they always had this social, and they had a national function to do and perform.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=6202.0,6232.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SPEAKER:  Was there any connection or influence that you see between the people’s choruses and the work of Mark Blitzstein and The Cradle Will Rock?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  And whom?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSPEAKER:  Mark Blitzstein.  The Cradle Will Rock?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  I don’t think, I don’t think there was any direct contact.  Is there a musical contact?  Is there an inner contact?  I don’t know.  But it’s a good question.  It’s worth, it’s worth listening, and worth, and….  But however, they didn’t, they did not.  No I, I don’t, I don’t see a link.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=6232.0,6279.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nor do I know how much Mark, how well he was, a) knowledgeable; and b) influenced by Jewish music.  Whether it’s cantorial music or any other music. But however, I consider this a question worth tracing.  It would be very interesting to…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSPEAKER:  Indeed.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  …to, to find out, really, what there was. Is there anything else that…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSPEAKER:  Maybe some biographical background and information.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Whose?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSPEAKER:  Yours.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=6279.0,6308.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"GOLDBERG:  Oh, who has — I’m too young to have a biography.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSPEAKER:  And then…\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Oh.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSPEAKER:  …I think we’ll wrap it.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Mine — it’s a simple, it’s, it’s a simple biography.  If I had to do it over again, I probably would have done it, with all the mistakes. I was born in Poland.  I grew up in Warsaw.  I had a normal education there.  Normal in the sense that I didn’t know that there were Yiddish schools, and they were already there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=6308.0,6343.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And however, towards, in the latter years — and that means before leaving for America — I convinced the head of the seminary, seminary that there was in Warsaw— Seminary for the Teachers of the Jewish Religion was its full name.  And he, they only took, allowed students who were 16, who were 16 in.  And there were many Hasidic students, because there were, didn’t go, have to go to the army. But I convinced Dr. Posnansky, who was the head of the famous Flamatsky Synagogue in Warsaw, known as one of the outstanding synagogues in the world…","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=6343.0,6383.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  He was the president of the shul?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  He was — whether this?  Yes, he was the president.  He was the president.  He was the rabbi of the shul, too. And I, I convinced Posnansky — I was about 13 — Posnansky that the Jewish people — I used a, I have no idea whether I spoke to him in Polish or in Hebrew.  But the Jewish people will really suffer a great loss if you wouldn’t allow me to come into this seminary of his, although I was too young.  And so I was allowed.  He allowed me, let, he said, “Do me good, little one.”  That shows you how big I was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=6383.0,6419.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In Polish. And I had some of that up, some of that seminary, teaching in the seminary.  I was in Canada, went through the Canadian schools.  I was in the, a student at a Baptist university. Why a Baptist university?  Because a Baptist university known as, known as — I was going to say Queens College.  I forgot its name.  It’s a big university, now, in Hamilton, Ontario.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=6419.0,6450.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And in this Baptist university, to show its liberalism, it gave a, allowed one or two Jewish students in for one year.  So I was allowed into McMaster.  It was McMaster University.  To McMaster, so I was at McMaster. And then, at the age of — I began very young — about 19, 20.  I became a teacher in the Workmen’s Circle schools. For the information, since we are working now for, for the next generations, I want the next generations to know that I was called in at that time by two old Yiddish teachers, who were still involved in organizing the so-called Nationale Radicalish Shulen — National Radical Schools — in 1912 or so, in Toronto.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=6450.0,6506.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And they asked me whether I wanted to become a Yiddish pedagogue. So I went home, I checked carefully what pedagogue was.  And I came back a day later and decided that yes, I’d like to become a pedagogue.  So I became a pedagogue, without the least preparation, except my involvement in, in, in Yiddish literature.  So politically, completely unaware.  And it was since then — and that would be in the middle ‘20s — that I have been “pedagoguing”, so to say, for a long time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=6506.0,6538.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I, later on, was, for, the head of the, the cultural educator — cultural director, really — of the JPFO, which was a part of the, either of the Jewish People’s Fraternal Order.  I was its cultural director for years.  And then left it. And I was the head — as a matter of fact, I was the head of a movement of schools which had more than a hundred secular schools.  But these were the, the afternoon schools, you know.  They weren’t really basic schools, as they should have been.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=6538.0,6574.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I had more than a hundred schools, and I did a great deal of work there. And I later on, became — and that’s already 30-odd years ago — I became the editor of the, a magazine called the Yidishe Kultur, which was organized in 1938, 1937 — ‘8, really — when there was a convention, what to do, how can we save the riches of the people before the, before the oncoming Nazis.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=6574.0,6608.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And at that time, in ’38, the Yidishe Kultur was born. And I was, I, I was — the first editor was a man — an outstanding man, too.  Who was a, an editor of magazines in Poland.  Nachman Maisel.  Known as an outstanding critic.  Extraordinary.  A joyful man to be with.  And he left in ’64 to, left for Israel, and died a year or two later.  And I took over the magazine since then, which is already about 36 years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=6608.0,6646.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it’s becoming a, it’s a difficult thing, over the years, as the older generation disappears.  It is conviction, and a bit of, a bit of deciding that you don’t allow 30 years to slip away, on my part. I was also, for 15 years, I was a professor of Yiddish and Yiddish literature at Queens College.  But I — under a very good man — that was Joseph Landes, who still is publishing a magazine in English, in English, which is called Yiddish.  And still involved in, in this work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=6646.0,6684.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So that’s more or less. I also am a very happily married man.  And, and both my children, as a matter of fact — I may as well say this. Susan sang — she still does — Yiddish songs.  And my son is, has his doctorate in Yiddish literature from, from Columbia.  And even published a grammar and not — a textbook — for teaching adults Yiddish literature, called Yidish af yidish, and of late, also had, helped the MLA, where he works — the Modern Language Association — professors, with whom he works now, to publish a book — an original book — called Op Gank, in Yiddish and in English.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=6684.0,6731.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The original Yiddish, a book written about 1913, called Op Gank.  And then the English translation.  I’m very, very glad that he did it. So that I am still involved in the, in the, in this work.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eI probably have a few other good points, but who remembers the good points?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  We can save that for the next interview.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  The what?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  We can save those other points for the next interview.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Yeah, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll listen then.  I’ll sit down and, and tell him, Mr. Urchik, tell me, tell me what you got.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eNo, it was really — thank you for doing it.  Thank you for giving me the opportunity.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=6731.0,6765.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"SEROTA:  Thank you.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  And I really admire, admire for what you do, because I am full of, my own work is exactly, is linked with not allowing values to disappear.  I think that’s the greatest. And being in the position we are as a people, you know, we have learned already that, that values could disappear, and we have to take, have to take care of them. You know, Jews, when they came to a new settlement, that the first thing they looked for was — naturally, naturally, a cemetery.  And then, and then you looked for a, a hazzan and a mohel.   And sometimes, the hazzan and the mohel were one person.  It was cheaper, really, to, to do that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=6765.0,6804.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, I think we have a certain historic sense for values.  Otherwise, we wouldn’t have — and a, it’s, it’s a burden if you say, if you want to think so.  But I think any Jew who doesn’t carry this, this weight of the, of the past, and doesn’t see himself as a part of an ongoing culture and an ongoing ethic and an ongoing national physiognomy which we have. It’s the only, it doesn’t mean that you, that you have to be a, a kholila — a chauvinist.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=6804.0,6840.0"},{"id":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760/transcript/24163/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But to sense that, what threads you have in you.  So this is essentially what I have been doing a lifetime.  And since I am young enough to continue, I am trying to continue.  And that’s why I, and that’s why I admire your work.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  As we say, ad meah ve-esrim.  Up to 120.  At least.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Till 70?  The inflation doesn’t mean anything?\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSEROTA:  A hundred and thirty.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eGOLDBERG:  Oh.  And now we’re talking.  Thank you, thank you so much.\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003eSPEAKER:  Thank you.  Thank you very much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://milken.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1159/collection_resources/39379/file/110760#t=6840.0,6877.14133"}]}]}]}